R.I.P. DK

kalimar44 · October 2015

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

I don't agree I really like the DK and I do sooo much damage have 18k health 19k stamina wep damage 3k

I'm right there with you. I have 20k health 23k stamina. My wep dam is at 2800 atm. I use hundings and ashen grip. I'm a vet 9 Nord.

Artemisshrikes · October 2015

kalimar44 wrote: »

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

I don't agree I really like the DK and I do sooo much damage have 18k health 19k stamina wep damage 3k

I'm right there with you. I have 20k health 23k stamina. My wep dam is at 2800 atm. I use hundings and ashen grip. I'm a vet 9 Nord.

thank you

Artemisshrikes · October 2015

kalimar44 wrote: »

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

I don't agree I really like the DK and I do sooo much damage have 18k health 19k stamina wep damage 3k

I'm right there with you. I have 20k health 23k stamina. My wep dam is at 2800 atm. I use hundings and ashen grip. I'm a vet 9 Nord.

I use hunding rage and ravager and the nights silence and night mother for weapons

kalimar44 · October 2015

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

kalimar44 wrote: »

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

I don't agree I really like the DK and I do sooo much damage have 18k health 19k stamina wep damage 3k

I'm right there with you. I have 20k health 23k stamina. My wep dam is at 2800 atm. I use hundings and ashen grip. I'm a vet 9 Nord.

I use hunding rage and ravager and the nights silence and night mother for weapons

This is my next switch soon.

AbraXuSeXile · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I would argue that templar has the same issues and more broken skills, now and over its history. Templar has never had aglory day, apart from the healing role, and sadly a lot of out of class abilities are better choices. Playing templar warrior build, either as tank or dps just is not what it use to be. I feel your pain, but honestly i find dk still very easy to play, and vastly more synergistic with its abilities. Before anyone mentions the laserbeam, consider that we lost a tank ability to get it, one that was a deeply flawed analog of blur/cinders. As the warrior spec of templar i am more unhappy with the developments templar had gone through than any other class.

Why is it every time a DK makes a post to bring up the negative points of their class, a Templar decides to chime in? Please keep the focus on DK only here.

Thanks.

Because templars are in the same boat, with soft caps removed along with blockin and dodge roll nerfs with no escape templars and dks are unable to stack magicka n stam like sorcs and nbs and therefor cannot compete properly.

WyldfireWyrm · October 2015

Everything in about to say takes only class skills into consideration.

DKs have a gap closer. It's Fiery Grip. Yes, it's different than the other classes gap closers, but it nevertheless closes the gap. They also have a gap closing ultimate that is pretty cheap. It would be nice to see the gap closer change so that you could morph it to either bring targets to you or take you to them.

DKs lack a class execution skill, which should be changed to put it on par with the other 3 classes for the final 20-33% of a boss fight.

DKs are the least burst capable class. Their damage stems from the best sustained DPS of all the classes. They have great DPS with a proper rotation that is not easy to master because it requires keeping track of several DoTs with differing times simultaneously. Add-ons solve that problem for PC players, but console player, such as myself, have to have a multitasking mind to achieve good numbers. So it has the potential to be the best PVE DPS, but a steep learning curve.

The lack of class ability burst damage does make the DK a poor choice in solo PVP. Their group PVP potential is better than Sorcerers and Nightblade, but worse than Templars.

To the Templars, I get where you're coming from since I played a Temp for a long while. You've had the short end of the DPS stick for most of the game's existence, but it is in poor taste to derail the thread of another class with your own problems, just as it would be for them to crash your own threads.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

chains is absolute rubbish in that it can either work, not work at all, or drag the player to the enemy. It is the most jarring skill to use that has peeved me right off since 1.6.

Imagine if you get exasperated 1/3 of the time you use a skill.

Id suggest rather than it being a morph issue for the player who uses chains to not be pulled if they are blocking. That would make the skill more versatile.

caperon · October 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

chains is absolute rubbish in that it can either work, not work at all, or drag the player to the enemy. It is the most jarring skill to use that has peeved me right off since 1.6.

Imagine if you get exasperated 1/3 of the time you use a skill.

Id suggest rather than it being a morph issue for the player who uses chains to not be pulled if they are blocking. That would make the skill more versatile.

Chains could be acceptable again if they remove the z-level nerf. Was an amazing skill and now bugs half of the time because of this nerf. Wont hold my breath on this tho...

zZzleepyhead · October 2015

Nah dude, DKs are great.
/thread

Alcast · October 2015

DKs are fine, most ppl just QQ because they cant be tanky as f.... anymore and at the same time pull shitloads of dps.

Also, many of the things you list here is not only DK specific, all classes got nerfs with healing output for example.

Armitas · October 2015

Battle leveled is nice, enjoy it while it lasts.

Harasdar · October 2015

I love my dragon knight and beeing far from beeing at the bottom of the foodchain.

Dracane · October 2015

danny2096 wrote: »

Good write up. However, I can't agree that Dragonknight is not able to burst down enemies.
It's obvious that a tank build can't and shouldn't be able to do that. But a DK build for dealing damage CAN and will destroy things fast.

My boyfriend is a stamina DK and omg, nobody puts so much pressure on me. He only uses heavy attack weaving and flying blade and not even my Overload spam can out damage what he does by doing this simple thing.
And the activation of burst for DKs is based on using some surprise. Wait for your enemy to go offensive, then dragon jump and spam all your damage. Just like Sorcerers, you need to time your burst and then it will be devasating.

if your blyfriends putting pressure on you and hitting you with heavys i would be aware of that...
[/quote]

We are in different factions and we duell sometimes. We usually play together in the imperial city and he destroys things faster than I do

even though I run the maximum damage setup for Sorcerer I can think of. But no chance to reach what he does. Makes me pretty jealous obviously.

Aunatar · October 2015

Just to be clear: Sorcerers have the highest DPS atm (up to 42k), not DK.

Aunatar · October 2015

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

I've stuck with my DK through thick and thin since launch. Yes, the DK renaissance was good.

The whining, here on the forums, especially from the dark brotherhood / rouge role-players, have resulted in many excessive nerfs and have cost us much. The time of staying in the shadows and keeping quite, is over. I don't want to play FOTM builds and want to sick with my DK, but the continual nerfs make the class less viable and wanting to be effective in PvP pushes them into a very small niche role.

Some quick facts for people that struggle understanding class balance:
DKs are un-mobile

DKs are supposed to be in-your-face

DKs have heavy DoTs & close range skills

DKs have only one, pathetic, distance ability

DKs have no class gap-closer

DKs are supposed to be tanky

DKs have reflect to defend against long range attacks

DKs now have very little to benefit groups

DKs have no realistic class execute

DKs resource management concept is supposed to be based around ultimate generation and battle roar

DKs are very limited in skill choice and builds to be effective

What nerfs is this DK on about? He's just QQing, right?
too much sustain and resources? = Battle Roar - nerfed.

idiots get pulled off walls when wanting to imperviously pew pew their attackers? = Extended Chains - nerfed.

ultimates deal too much damage to huggers? = Magma Shell - nerfed.

shields return damage to your hugs? = Fragmented Shield - nerfed.

idiots wanting to pew pew an un-mobile class from stealth/long range? = Reflect - nerfed.

ultimates used too often against hippy huggers?* = Ultimate Generation via Crits - removed.

countering shield stackers with close range abilities that ignore shields is too annoying? = Lava Whip - nerfed.

idiots get leaped to when wanting to imperviously pew pew their attackers from high walls? = Dragon Leap (an ultimate) - nerfed.

too many DoTs? = Flames of Oblivion - nerfed.

a support ability to increase group's damage? = Molten Weapons - nerfed.

too much sustain and idiots can't kill 'top-level' DKs? = Dragon Blood - nerfed.

close range DoTs hit too hard? = Unstable Flame & Burning Breath - switched to stamina.

20% dodge chance in a defensive fixed position too annoying? = Cinder Storm - nerfed.

able to interrupt multiple people from range? = Eruption - nerfed.

still too much sustain and resources? = Battle Roar - nerfed again.

still too many ultimates used? = Ultimate costs - increased.

looking for alternative ways to manage resources? = Werewolf's passive stamina regen & Vampires regen - nerfed.

idiots still want to pew pew an un-mobile class from stealth? = Attacks from stealth now ignore reflect (and always crit)

idiots can't deal enough damage and kill DKs that reduce the cost of blocking? = Block - nerfed.

*yes i know another reason was healing springs spammers abused this for ultimate generation between fights

Other gripes:
"Draw on your draconic blood to heal 33% of missing Health" should heal 33% of missing health and not 16%.

too much damage to mindless yolo-ers charging into large AoE groups? Impulse = range nerfed. This dealt less damage than steel tornado and had the same range... but only impulse got nerfed. So now we have similar problems with a new generation of mindless drones spamming the same skill in large numbers. Fun and sporting gameplay? #SteelTornadoDrones #STDs #hashtag #imhipandrelevantbecauseiusehashtags

For those that will use the age-old 'perma-bats/banners' argument: DKs didn't create this problem nor did we exploit it (the minority that abused a 98% ultimate cost reduction were other classes too).

The backlash from our finest hour has been excessive in my opinion and has put us in a very dark place. Will the sun ever shine on our class again?

things you are wrong about
1.a good gab closer is critical rush
2.for tanks you can use extended chains and the pierce armor from 1 hand and shield,choking talons for tanking, defensive stance for tanking, coagulating blood for the tanks self heal,
3.to benefit groups they can use minor brutality
4. resources via ultimates +reduce block cost via champ points and armor + max resistence= new tanking
5. and many more things your wrong about

1) Some DK's are magicka based, you know
2) Coagulating blood works on PvE, the 16% is supposed to be about PvP
3) Minor brutality via mountain blessing is still bugged and not working
this shows how much you know of the class since most of your words are wrong.

Dracane · October 2015

Aunatar wrote: »

Just to be clear: Sorcerers have the highest DPS atm (up to 42k), not DK.

I assume this was sarcasm

danny2096 · October 2015

I don't think it is. You can spam frags till kingdom come but you can't spam any high dps out of the skill line on Dragonknights

DlSTORTlON · October 2015

Looks like I've been slacking on this topic. DK haters have had too long to cast their illusions.

I've play DK since launch. The entire time in 2.0 I played the tanky support role as it was the most interesting role (I don't consider pressing two buttons repeatedly is much fun or intelligent). 2.1 is another big hit which wiped out our remaining useful abilities.

Rayste wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I think DK is far from being R.I.P.
They are the hardest class to play when played right, have the highest DPS and can be super dangerous in pvp.
DK has the crown in 2 roles, tanking and DD. What more could a class ask for ?

Agreed. DK was so far ahead of the other classes that even now they reign supreme at resource management. A good stam DK is absolutely brutal and possibly the best 1v1 build available. OP wants to be super FOTM again methinks.

I don't think you're seeing what you're typing?

DKs are not the crown in anything but tanking unless you're sitting high and mighty with 700+ CPs. Plus to get that, we sacrifice everything else for it.

When magicka reigned supreme, the vast majority of players (including 'super fotm' DKs) agreeded that their should be a good variety of alternative builds and play-styles. Why should the rise of the new fotm be at the cost of the extinction of all other DKs?

You do realise that this thread is intended to get magicka & stamina builds and classes balanced, right? I'm refusing to join the "super FOTM again".

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I would argue that templar has the same issues and more broken skills, now and over its history. Templar has never had aglory day, apart from the healing role, and sadly a lot of out of class abilities are better choices. Playing templar warrior build, either as tank or dps just is not what it use to be. I feel your pain, but honestly i find dk still very easy to play, and vastly more synergistic with its abilities. Before anyone mentions the laserbeam, consider that we lost a tank ability to get it, one that was a deeply flawed analog of blur/cinders. As the warrior spec of templar i am more unhappy with the developments templar had gone through than any other class.

The difference is that DKs unwillingly had a lot of abilities dumped into the useless pile whereas templars unwillingly traded an ability for another that opened the door to DD roles. In my opinion, the concept of the templar class was to be survivable and strong at healing. You still have both of those and now DD too. AND you've still got many useful class abilities.

Sublime wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Good write up. However, I can't agree that Dragonknight is not able to burst down enemies.
It's obvious that a tank build can't and shouldn't be able to do that. But a DK build for dealing damage CAN and will destroy things fast.

My boyfriend is a stamina DK and omg, nobody puts so much pressure on me. He only uses heavy attack weaving and flying blade and not even my Overload spam can out damage what he does by doing this simple thing.
And the activation of burst for DKs is based on using some surprise. Wait for your enemy to go offensive, then dragon jump and spam all your damage. Just like Sorcerers, you need to time your burst and then it will be devasating.

You're referring to a Stamina DK, however, the following quote makes me think that, despite not being said specificly, this thread is about Magicka DK's.

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

close range DoTs hit too hard? = Unstable Flame & Burning Breath - switched to stamina.

I just don't understand why people think DKs are king in PvP damage & survivability still. There is no such thing as a 'stamknight'. 95% of the abilities and skills stamina DKs use/benefit from are not class abilities. That means that; 5% of them benefit the build by playing as DK. It's frustratingly simple to use a very identical build with any other class. It's easy to argue that the other classes provide better benifits too. Stamblade & Stamplar are far superior to 'Stamina DKs Civilians'.

The few abilities that were still semi-useful to magicka DKs switched to stamina with dragon blood jumping on the useless pile too while it's ghost manifested it's self in Vigour (more available to all now than ever before). I can hear the complaints as if it were yesterday:

NB: "I want an insta heal and large HoTs too. It's not fair they're the only class with it"

Don't get me started on stealth and surprise, please. This game is the only one that panders to those that want to pick how & when they engage in combat, those that want unreflectable ranged attacks that always crit and only want to attack players that have no counter and are unable to heal or get away effectively.

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

things you are wrong about
1.a good gab closer is critical rush
2.for tanks you can use extended chains and the pierce armor from 1 hand and shield,choking talons for tanking, defensive stance for tanking, coagulating blood for the tanks self heal,
3.to benefit groups they can use minor brutality
4. resources via ultimates +reduce block cost via champ points and armor + max resistence= new tanking
5. and many more things your wrong about

a good gap* closer is also invasion (shielded charge is useless now with sb). However you failed to see the word "class" This is a problem that forces DKs to either use 1h&s or 2h.
yes, talons are still useful, I agree, despite other classes having stronger abilities that are similar. However:
- extended chains can't pull people from safe range positions anymore (a.k.a. walls & towers). They also apply CC immunity and all it takes is cloak or a dodge roll to be back to sq1.
- pierce armour is a stamina weapon ability available to all. (which btw, has little use in PvP)
- defensive stance is a stamina weapon ability available to all. (which btw, is a waste of a skill slot considering DKs have a class reflect and without 700+ CPs they won't be blocking often anyway)
- coagulating blood is now heavily nerfed and next to useless.

thanks, that's ever so generous of you. 5% weapon damage, I'm sure all the magicka users in your group will be jumping for joy (if/when it's fixed). Not to mention that major brutality is available to other classes via class, weapon & world skills.
I'm not arguing that DKs are terrible at tanking, I guess you don't tank too much in PvP? Its not that fun after 5 months.
a reliance on 700+ CPs for a class to be able to block or be a viable class specific build is absurd
ill be happy to correct you if you ever dream them up

I guess that this DK is too naive to voice objection to the facts that:

all DKs without a ridiculous amout of CPs MUST (to get anything done) find a large group, clone themselves to the majority in that group, and press 1 or 2 buttons non-stop until it's time to log off.
it's perfectly fine to get available-for-all buffs that make a few focused stamina builds viable. BUT only at the expense of the vast majority of class skills, (which make them different from everyone else) rendered completely inefficient
if/when CC immunity is fixed, steel tornado & shield breaker get balanced, that all the 'stamknights' will rush to the forums to complain about being nerfed and how quickly zos bend over backwards for you.

DlSTORTlON · October 2015

kalimar44 wrote: »

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

kalimar44 wrote: »

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

I don't agree I really like the DK and I do sooo much damage have 18k health 19k stamina wep damage 3k

I'm right there with you. I have 20k health 23k stamina. My wep dam is at 2800 atm. I use hundings and ashen grip. I'm a vet 9 Nord.

I use hunding rage and ravager and the nights silence and night mother for weapons

This is my next switch soon.

zZzleepyhead wrote: »

Nah dude, DKs are great.
/thread

Harasdar wrote: »

I love my dragon knight and beeing far from beeing at the bottom of the foodchain.

Armitas wrote: »

Battle leveled is nice, enjoy it while it lasts.

My thoughts exactly.

Aunatar wrote: »

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

things you are wrong about
1.a good gab closer is critical rush
2.for tanks you can use extended chains and the pierce armor from 1 hand and shield,choking talons for tanking, defensive stance for tanking, coagulating blood for the tanks self heal,
3.to benefit groups they can use minor brutality
4. resources via ultimates +reduce block cost via champ points and armor + max resistence= new tanking
5. and many more things your wrong about

1) Some DK's are magicka based, you know
2) Coagulating blood works on PvE, the 16% is supposed to be about PvP
3) Minor brutality via mountain blessing is still bugged and not working
this shows how much you know of the class since most of your words are wrong.

Another DK with a brain? I thought we had all quit or died out.

Glantir · October 2015

Aunatar wrote: »

Just to be clear: Sorcerers have the highest DPS atm (up to 42k), not DK.

Bulshit, maybe on a centipede.... if you want to compare classes you cant take a pro player Sorc and a casual player DK.

The NBs and DKs in my guild always have more dps than me in short fights with overload its more or less equal and sometimes with luck my dps is higher......

Lexxypwns · October 2015

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

[*] pierce armour is a stamina weapon ability available to all. (which btw, has little use in PvP)

LOL sound like an l2p issue, its practically free DPS, add in LA and bash cancel and you're pulling some respectable PVP DPS while barely touching your Stamina

DlSTORTlON · October 2015

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

[*] pierce armour is a stamina weapon ability available to all. (which btw, has little use in PvP)

LOL sound like an l2p issue, its practically free DPS, add in LA and bash cancel and you're pulling some respectable PVP DPS while barely touching your Stamina

Why would magicka DKs need armour penetration? There's much better weapon abilities that reduce sres that exist you know? That are even suited to magicka builds

It's more like a pull-your-head-out-of-the-mind-set-of-a-wrecking-blow-and-steel-tornado-drone issue I think.

Lexxypwns · October 2015

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

[*] pierce armour is a stamina weapon ability available to all. (which btw, has little use in PvP)

LOL sound like an l2p issue, its practically free DPS, add in LA and bash cancel and you're pulling some respectable PVP DPS while barely touching your Stamina

Why would magicka DKs need armour penetration? There's much better weapon abilities that reduce sres that exist you know? That are even suited to magicka builds

It's more like a pull-your-head-out-of-the-mind-set-of-a-wrecking-blow-and-steel-tornado-drone issue I think.

Another l2p issue, I obviously couldn't use Wrecking Blow, Steel Tornado, and Pierce Armor... are you proof reading, sir?

DlSTORTlON · October 2015

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

[*] pierce armour is a stamina weapon ability available to all. (which btw, has little use in PvP)

LOL sound like an l2p issue, its practically free DPS, add in LA and bash cancel and you're pulling some respectable PVP DPS while barely touching your Stamina

Why would magicka DKs need armour penetration? There's much better weapon abilities that reduce sres that exist you know? That are even suited to magicka builds

It's more like a pull-your-head-out-of-the-mind-set-of-a-wrecking-blow-and-steel-tornado-drone issue I think.

Another l2p issue, I obviously couldn't use Wrecking Blow, Steel Tornado, and Pierce Armor... are you proof reading, sir?

let me know when you realise that groups don't all have to use the exact same weapons. just because your group does this, doesn't mean that every group can't vary their builds.

Dracane · October 2015

danny2096 wrote: »

I don't think it is. You can spam frags till kingdom come but you can't spam any high dps out of the skill line on Dragonknights

Frags aren't spammable. You know they only have a 35% chance to occur ? Dk has so many overpowered Dots, and whip spam hits hard, don't tell me otherwise.

You have strong sustained DPS while a frag here and there does not change anything about Sorc dps.

themdogesbite · October 2015

How can anyone defend a magica DK in its current state? 99% of the people that say that they are "good" is either: A) People that arent max level. B ) People that have never played a DK.

DK class "Gapcloser" (Dosent even CC or snare and give free cc immunity. ROFL.) Is a joke.

DK survivability is also a joke unless COMPLETELY specced for survivability and tankyness. (Sorcs gets this for free by just maxing their main resource pool.) Dragonblood nerf was really to much togheter with the block changes.

High CP is almost a MUST in order to be on a equal level as other classes. And if we get this supposed cap soon and it is to low we´re even more screwed over.

People are missing that this thread is MAINLY but not only focused towards MAGICKA DKS. Flying blade, Pierce armour etc isnt really to beneficial to this discussion at all. Likewise is DK OP pre 1.6 "arguments". Everyclass could do ridiculous things back then.. (Most people seem to forget perma negate/Batswarm sorcs. Close to 100% dmg mitigation NBs and Blazing shield Templars dealing insane damage.)

I want 4 classes back in PvP!

(My viewpoint is mainly from a PvP perspective.)

Dracane · October 2015

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

How can anyone defend a magica DK in its current state? 99% of the people that say that they are "good" is either: A) People that arent max level. B ) People that have never played a DK.

DK class "Gapcloser" (Dosent even CC or snare and give free cc immunity. ROFL.) Is a joke.

DK survivability is also a joke unless COMPLETELY specced for survivability and tankyness. (Sorcs gets this for free by just maxing their main resource pool.) Dragonblood nerf was really to much togheter with the block changes.

High CP is almost a MUST in order to be on a equal level as other classes. And if we get this supposed cap soon and it is to low we´re even more screwed over.

People are missing that this thread is MAINLY but not only focused towards MAGICKA DKS. Flying blade, Pierce armour etc isnt really to beneficial to this discussion at all. Likewise is DK OP pre 1.6 "arguments". Everyclass could do ridiculous things back then.. (Most people seem to forget perma negate/Batswarm sorcs. Close to 100% dmg mitigation NBs and Blazing shield Templars dealing insane damage.)

I want 4 classes back in PvP!

(My viewpoint is mainly from a PvP perspective.)

I also think it's stupid that chains gives free CC immunity for almost nothing. But it still is a great 2 in 1 gap closer.
EACH gap closer shortly stuns the target and should grant immunity just like chains do. (yes, even critical rush does, it shortly roots the target)

And Chains not granting immunity at all would also be quite op, considering it interrupts and staggers the target.
However I can't agree Magicka Dks are weak or something, even though I would want to agree. They definately aren't
It's insane if played right. Maybe we could say that DKs are the hardest class to play ? Because each class is extremely bad if played wrong and DK has potential to be the mightiest if played right. Seems like few people even attempt to achieve that though, because the are doomed to be a turtle until they die, because they don't want to try things.

Minsc · October 2015

Just another thread that proves that we need separate forum sections for console players and PC users. Obviously agree with Distortion re: the essence of the topic

jebuspowers · October 2015

I play Nightblade tank so I can't really say anything about DK tanks. The only thing I can say is what others tell me about when they group with a dragonknight. They tend to have problems keeping stamina up and are always calling out for the templars shards. After the patch I had to adjust and it could be that DK tanks are still having resource issues because they have not tried anything new yet. If you're having problems with resources try using Willows Path set. It helps out a lot, but you will lose some resistance most likely. However, any character with no resources is pretty much dead weight.

themdogesbite · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

How can anyone defend a magica DK in its current state? 99% of the people that say that they are "good" is either: A) People that arent max level. B ) People that have never played a DK.

DK class "Gapcloser" (Dosent even CC or snare and give free cc immunity. ROFL.) Is a joke.

DK survivability is also a joke unless COMPLETELY specced for survivability and tankyness. (Sorcs gets this for free by just maxing their main resource pool.) Dragonblood nerf was really to much togheter with the block changes.

High CP is almost a MUST in order to be on a equal level as other classes. And if we get this supposed cap soon and it is to low we´re even more screwed over.

People are missing that this thread is MAINLY but not only focused towards MAGICKA DKS. Flying blade, Pierce armour etc isnt really to beneficial to this discussion at all. Likewise is DK OP pre 1.6 "arguments". Everyclass could do ridiculous things back then.. (Most people seem to forget perma negate/Batswarm sorcs. Close to 100% dmg mitigation NBs and Blazing shield Templars dealing insane damage.)

I want 4 classes back in PvP!

(My viewpoint is mainly from a PvP perspective.)

I also think it's stupid that chains gives free CC immunity for almost nothing. But it still is a great 2 in 1 gap closer.
EACH gap closer shortly stuns the target and should grant immunity just like chains do. (yes, even critical rush does, it shortly roots the target)

And Chains not granting immunity at all would also be quite op, considering it interrupts and staggers the target.
However I can't agree Magicka Dks are weak or something, even though I would want to agree. They definately aren't
It's insane if played right. Maybe we could say that DKs are the hardest class to play ? Because each class is extremely bad if played wrong and DK has potential to be the mightiest if played right. Seems like few people even attempt to achieve that though, because the are doomed to be a turtle until they die, because they don't want to try things.

Theres nothign great about chains, its a wasted skillslot and it dosent even work half the time. Dont compare it to a gapcloser cus it isn't. It USED to be good cus you could contiuisly pull people to you / from walls etc and it was consistent in which direction it would pull you in.

Could you enlighten me what strenghts a magica DK have in a large scale AvAvA enviorment? As far as im aware all the ones we had got overnerfed instead of tweaked in a resonable way. What is this potential you speak of? The only "unique" things about DKs today is that they can interupt Templars healing ultimate.. yay for potential. '

I also happen to know that you have a very strong bias against DKs and have had so for quite some time. We´re not in 1.5 anymore, you might wanna do some catching up..