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Are people starting to give up on ZOS?
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PinoZino✭✭✭✭FuzzyDuck79 wrote: »So I'm a" bad" player? Right now I'd be happy to be a "player" And just be able to play the game.
Sometimes I am not able to do a specific action/quest/or whatever in the game. It could be a bug or something temporally.
In such case I just do something different.
Now, how hard is it for you to do the same?
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
FireCowCommando✭✭✭✭✭FuzzyDuck79 wrote: »Guess what? Still loading... I'm gonna leave it on so ZOS can "watch" And "record" how I'm "playing" their game so they can make it even better.
No, they don't. They only watch good players.
But there are rumours they created a link between the moaning forum-members and the loading screens. The more you moan, the longer you may watch the loading screens.
I think you are misreading his situation, he crashed and tried to load back in, got the glitch where he will never get past the load screen and didnt realize he need to force close and reopen the application to have any hope of getting in.
If you read all of his posts hes been making and look at the time stamps, hes been staring at the screen for over 30 minutes, which is understandably annoying.1 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭Cherryblossom wrote: »
Your argument is flawed;
If people do not voice their concerns or report bugs, then how would the Development team understand what the community required.
By conducting user tests with actual players.
Present times, they have fantastic software and tools to make it happen.
Camera's, Eye-tracking devices, even EEG brain scanner are not that unusual anymore.
It's also a myth that users know what they require. They don't.Cherryblossom wrote: »If everyone who was unhappy with certain aspects of the game did what I think you meant with your weird ananlogy and left, there would be few players in the game. People voice their concerns because they want to see the game move in a positive way, it's obviously in ZOS's hands whether or not they think the community is majorly in agreement with certain directions.
But it doesn't happen. Seems like most players are satisfied an have some patient till the issues are solved.Cherryblossom wrote: »The Majority of negative threads in the forum are about the actual BUGS not the game play, yeah sure people will always no matter the game call for Nerf's, it's part and parcel of MMO (I never do, I always hope the Combat Teams are looking at the data). when something new comes in there will always be those that don't like change and also a certain amount of tuning required. But if people were not pointing out these things it's more likely that things would not be fixed as quickly (Big bugbear with this game) and changes to make small gradual improvements would not happen.
i'd imagine most people who frequent the Forums do so from work! The time when they are unable to play!
That's not true. The majority of threads is about what people *think* is wrong designed. And while they are uber noobs in game design, UX or whatever related subjects, they provide a crappy solution for a mostly imaginary problem.
Few threads are dealing about real issues and real bugs.
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Very interesting. But just your opinion, and therefore it means nothing.
Fact is, opinions ARE important. But not everyone will have the same opinion, of course.
No, it's not an opinion. Since they studied and analyzed this rather broad and deep.
We know for sure that opinions are crap.
At Apple they didn't went to the customers: "Can we have your opinion about building a phone?" nor didn't they ask "Here is a prototype of a new phone device, tell me your opinion about it".
No, what they did was building low and high-fidelity prototypes, gave them to users and ask them to carry out tasks like 'phone someone' or 'make a picture'.
They just watched what the users did, where they failed, where they had difficulties in executing the task.
Later they analyzed everything, went again to the drawing board and returned to the test users until all were satisfied.
Building an UI or a game idea is a profession. The learning curve is hard and steep. And this academic knowledge is just a start, you also needs tons of experience.
Tell me, why would the learning curve be hard and steep when a utter noob could do the job as well?
Tell me, why do they pay guys like Nielsen, Mayhew, Cooper, Norman and others ridiculous amounts of money per day if an uber noob can do it for free?
This is all great, but what the hell does it have to do with ZOS producing a game which has been bugged since launch and has barely usable UI.
Building UI for games has been done for them, they chose to ignore this fact and build nothing which is easier....
And more importantly Apple would of asked for the testers opinion and take note of the opinion based upon the testers demographic. They would then base decisions upon the Demographic's they were going to be marketing for.Edited by Cherryblossom on September 30, 2015 11:13AM1 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭Cherryblossom wrote: »
This is all great, but what the hell does it have to do with ZOS producing a game which has been bugged since launch and has barely usable UI.
Building UI for games has been done for them, they chose to ignore this fact and build nothing which is easier....
And more importantly Apple would of asked for the testers opinion and take note of the opinion based upon the testers demographic. They would then base decisions upon the Demographic's they were going to be marketing for.
No, Apple didn't do that and will never do.
If they would do it, they would have crappy products. And fast.
It's not unusual that an MMO contains bugs. The source codes are enormous long and contains very complex pieces.
However, people not working in the software business don’t understand this. They think you can build a complex game with an enormous team forever. At such it’s released almost bug-free.
But who’s going to pay the bills in the meantime? You?
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
FuzzyDuck79✭✭✭Just found Ignore for @PinoZino. Brings nothing to the OP with his opinions on player vs dev, good vs bad players, and the way games are produced by using which code. Forums are open for discussions, opinions are part of that. Flaming people for having an opinion in a place where they can talk to others about their opinions, is pointless.Edited by FuzzyDuck79 on September 30, 2015 11:25AM4
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Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭Callous2208 wrote: »FuzzyDuck79 wrote: »Based on evidence from playing the game, watching ESO live, looking through the forums and checking guild rosters, player population is declining. The decline happened after the latest patch and DLC. That's statistics and fact. Something is wrong and maybe listening to a few ideas would put "fun" back into the game.
Still just opinion. 4 of my 5 guilds have grown since IC dropped. The 5th stays locked at 500 because of a sweet trader spot. If you're going by forum opinion, the game was dead prior to launch.
However you are basing opinion on Trading guilds which are a necessity and as their can only be about 70k in Trading guilds based on number of traders and max guild numbers, this is not a huge population!
What you may be seeing with guild recruitment is consolidation, i.e. as one guild dies from lack of numbers the few left move to the next guild that advertises....
I'd agree that with the drop of IC we may have got new players and I'd imagine some have stayed to see how it turned out.
But as PINO says it's all opinion, only ZOS has the actual facts and they don't share. (most companies only share this data when they are doing well, so read whatever you want into that!)0 -
FireCowCommando✭✭✭✭✭@PinoZino I have seen you make a lot of posts in this thread, all with the common theme of attempting to express that players thoughts and opinions are irrelevant and offer no meaningful information to the developers.
While i understand this may be entertaining for you to do, i do not understand how you feel repeating this constantly in a condescending tone contributes anything to this discussion, or the community.
I was going to remain silent, but after seeing you respond to @FuzzyDuck79 in a similar manner when you obviously did not consider what he was attempting to express in his frustration, I am wondering what exactly your motive is here.
I hope in the future you try to consider putting more effort into understanding what the other people are trying to express before bashing them, please.2 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pinochet wrote...
Few threads are dealing about real issues and real bugs.
YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG...
There is a whole different forum area called PTS..
Many many many of us old timers have spent many days on that area. Testing debugging analyzing and working with the devs. Have you??? No you have not. So STFU on areas you know nothing about when it comes to players and \devs interacting. You are making assumptions and erroneous and misleading statements. Convoluted half truths and while you play one platform you forget to think about the interactions on other platforms. Your past statements make me think of another wordsmith who said many things got put in as a community ambassador. Then proceeded to run interference and marginalize the issues. They named and shamed and lied and when caught they bounced.You are now in that category of forum smith.
Many people who spoke out or extensively tested issues were ZOS's 1%. The ones invited to guild summits. Many had questions and many voiced concerns. These concerns and issues were for the most parts glossed over and ignored .
It makes no difference how constructive a post is written. Anything written is considered a smug report. Devs from other games have commented and made suggestions. Result ignored.
If you had spent anytime on PTS or been at this game since beta you would know the sum of efforts and contributions that players from all professions have contributed freely to ZOS. But you are a johnny come lately on the scene who has not been here for the full journey.
The main crux that many players have and this is collected feedback from over 1000 people is why did ZOS balance the main content to fit the conditions of a DLC ? Why do that? Why kill crafting. Why take away from the hard work that many players put into their gear. No answers were given. Well customers do not like to be brushed off and they vote with their wallet.
If you go to another topic area called Combat mechanics you can find more submissions and test results from players to the devs.
Same with the PVP area of this forum. Devs do pay attention no one is saying that they do not. Devs DO NEED to work on their communication skills. the one that /lurks the most is the PVP lead designer. The rest make a cameo appearance then bounce. Treating your customers with indifference will alienate them and you lose brand loyalty. When you say customers do not know what they want. you insult customers. A well educated customer is the best consumer.Do not think of them as ignorant and im sure that the glassdoor post from a former zos employee equates to an internal problem that has since been addressed.
What have the devs asked for in the past? DATA and VIDEO. they need to SEE what you are experiencing. This is from the devs themselves that is what they have repeatedly asked for. One cannot just simply post on this or other forums that a problem exists they need to collect the video WITH and WITHOUT add-ons installed. The devs need to see the base product in action.
Many of us have done this time and time again. The people who really care about this game can be found on the PTS section when a PTS patch is pushed to the PTS server.
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PinoZino✭✭✭✭FuzzyDuck79 wrote: »Just found Ignore for @PinoZino. Brings nothing to the OP with his opinions on player vs dev, good vs bad players, and the way games are produced by using which code. Forums are open for discussions, opinions are part of that. Flaming people for having an opinion in a place where they can talk to others about their opinions, is pointless.
I never said you couldn't have a opion. What I said was that opinions about UX and game design from users are worth nothing.
And I'm in good company.
Steve Jobs, Jakob Nielsen, Alan Cooper, Deborah Mayhew, Steve Krug, Donald Norman and so many others said the same.
These guys are experts and very very very but very good in what they do. Their opinion isn't based on emotions, but they all actually analyzed if listening to customers was a good idea. And it isn't.
Who is in your company? Some other ego-hurt forum members who have no clue about what they are talking. But they are very good in impersonating.
Ok. lolFounder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shhh quiet everyone !! Khajiit hear something!!! Ahh it was nothing drive on!! Khajiit say Fuzzy Wuzzy Duck had right Idea!2 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
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By conducting user tests with actual players.
Present times, they have fantastic software and tools to make it happen.
Camera's, Eye-tracking devices, even EEG brain scanner are not that unusual anymore.
It's also a myth that users know what they require. They don't.
You do write some nonsense that means nothing, when we are talking about ESO...
Forums and peoples experience with huge numbers of friends no longer playing points to this being incorrect...But it doesn't happen. Seems like most players are satisfied an have some patient till the issues are solved.Cherryblossom wrote: »The Majority of negative threads in the forum are about the actual BUGS not the game play, yeah sure people will always no matter the game call for Nerf's, it's part and parcel of MMO (I never do, I always hope the Combat Teams are looking at the data). when something new comes in there will always be those that don't like change and also a certain amount of tuning required. But if people were not pointing out these things it's more likely that things would not be fixed as quickly (Big bugbear with this game) and changes to make small gradual improvements would not happen.
i'd imagine most people who frequent the Forums do so from work! The time when they are unable to play!That's not true. The majority of threads is about what people *think* is wrong designed. And while they are uber noobs in game design, UX or whatever related subjects, they provide a crappy solution for a mostly imaginary problem.
Few threads are dealing about real issues and real bugs.
A problem is not imaginary if it causes an issue for someone! When Polls are performed they are done based on small numbers to give a gauge of larger opinion, the forum works in a similar way, you have to look at it more objectively as in most cases people come on the forum because they have an issue raither than because they are happy, but it still remains that the majority are forum users are indicative of the playerbase, so from this data it is possible to gauge opinions on how certain changes have effected the playerbase as a whole. How ZOS chooses to act upon this information is up to them, but their decision would I'd guess be based on financial consideration rather than Brain Scans
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PinoZino✭✭✭✭SeptimusDova wrote: »Pinochet wrote...
Few threads are dealing about real issues and real bugs.
YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG...
There is a whole different forum area called PTS..
*blablabla*
It's possible that at PTS the raised issues and bugs are real.
But not in General. Here it's more about what people like to see changed. Not in the interest of the entire community but mostly for own purposes.
By instance, they have already a triple account and 24 chars for the hirelings and inventory space.
They complain that ZOS should sell in the Crown Store the possibilities to have more alts.
Is THAT a bug? No.
Is THAT in the interest of the entire game population? No.
Is THAT in the interest for their own purposes? You bet, yes!
They don't understand when people can buy cheap and easy more alts, that they will buy it.
They don't understand that all those alts together could demolish the prices for the items the hirelings bring to us.
You can't explain to this kind of people that it could have an impact on the game economy.
No. Head in the sand. They want more alts.
Ok. lol
^ That kind of silly stuff is asked a lot at General. I’m not aware how it’s working at PTS.
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
Van_0S✭✭✭✭✭Do you know which game is more like ESO?
Its Bless online(free to play), its having alliance war, sex with NPC, 3 fractions ,etc.
Once this game is out, its BB(bye bye) for ESO.2 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭Cherryblossom wrote: »
By conducting user tests with actual players.
Present times, they have fantastic software and tools to make it happen.
Camera's, Eye-tracking devices, even EEG brain scanner are not that unusual anymore.
It's also a myth that users know what they require. They don't.
You do write some nonsense that means nothing, when we are talking about ESO...
Forums and peoples experience with huge numbers of friends no longer playing points to this being incorrect...But it doesn't happen. Seems like most players are satisfied an have some patient till the issues are solved.Cherryblossom wrote: »The Majority of negative threads in the forum are about the actual BUGS not the game play, yeah sure people will always no matter the game call for Nerf's, it's part and parcel of MMO (I never do, I always hope the Combat Teams are looking at the data). when something new comes in there will always be those that don't like change and also a certain amount of tuning required. But if people were not pointing out these things it's more likely that things would not be fixed as quickly (Big bugbear with this game) and changes to make small gradual improvements would not happen.
i'd imagine most people who frequent the Forums do so from work! The time when they are unable to play!That's not true. The majority of threads is about what people *think* is wrong designed. And while they are uber noobs in game design, UX or whatever related subjects, they provide a crappy solution for a mostly imaginary problem.
Few threads are dealing about real issues and real bugs.
A problem is not imaginary if it causes an issue for someone! When Polls are performed they are done based on small numbers to give a gauge of larger opinion, the forum works in a similar way, you have to look at it more objectively as in most cases people come on the forum because they have an issue raither than because they are happy, but it still remains that the majority are forum users are indicative of the playerbase, so from this data it is possible to gauge opinions on how certain changes have effected the playerbase as a whole. How ZOS chooses to act upon this information is up to them, but their decision would I'd guess be based on financial consideration rather than Brain Scans
Why should it be nonsense?
Is there no UX or usability needed in a game like ESO?
Oh yes it is and it can better be good.
And how will we fight that?
The unqualified users say: listen to us, we know it all.
SME's with a world class reputation say: don't listen to users, watch them using the software.
Who should we trust? I go for the SME's.
And no these forum members at General don't complain a lot about bugs, they complain mostly about game design.
Oh yes, problems can be imaginary. If their own, uhu, 'solution' is serving their own interest and not the interest of a significant share of the game population than the problem is mostly imaginary or fake.
Yes, haha, brain scans, haha, go figure, haha, brain scans.
Even in my small country, some rather small usability companies are using EEG brain scanners. And they use it in projects with just a few ten thousands users. I don't have to tell that these projects have a far lower budget as ZOS is having?
Edited by PinoZino on September 30, 2015 12:53PMFounder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/1 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cherryblossom wrote: »
By conducting user tests with actual players.
Present times, they have fantastic software and tools to make it happen.
Camera's, Eye-tracking devices, even EEG brain scanner are not that unusual anymore.
It's also a myth that users know what they require. They don't.
You do write some nonsense that means nothing, when we are talking about ESO...
Forums and peoples experience with huge numbers of friends no longer playing points to this being incorrect...But it doesn't happen. Seems like most players are satisfied an have some patient till the issues are solved.Cherryblossom wrote: »The Majority of negative threads in the forum are about the actual BUGS not the game play, yeah sure people will always no matter the game call for Nerf's, it's part and parcel of MMO (I never do, I always hope the Combat Teams are looking at the data). when something new comes in there will always be those that don't like change and also a certain amount of tuning required. But if people were not pointing out these things it's more likely that things would not be fixed as quickly (Big bugbear with this game) and changes to make small gradual improvements would not happen.
i'd imagine most people who frequent the Forums do so from work! The time when they are unable to play!That's not true. The majority of threads is about what people *think* is wrong designed. And while they are uber noobs in game design, UX or whatever related subjects, they provide a crappy solution for a mostly imaginary problem.
Few threads are dealing about real issues and real bugs.
A problem is not imaginary if it causes an issue for someone! When Polls are performed they are done based on small numbers to give a gauge of larger opinion, the forum works in a similar way, you have to look at it more objectively as in most cases people come on the forum because they have an issue raither than because they are happy, but it still remains that the majority are forum users are indicative of the playerbase, so from this data it is possible to gauge opinions on how certain changes have effected the playerbase as a whole. How ZOS chooses to act upon this information is up to them, but their decision would I'd guess be based on financial consideration rather than Brain Scans
Why should it be nonsense?
Is there no UX or usability needed in a game like ESO?
Oh yes it is and it can better be good.
And how will we fight that?
The unqualified users say: listen to us, we know it all.
SME's with a world class reputation say: don't listen to users, watch them using the software.
Who should we trust? I go for the SME's.
And no these forum members at General don't complain a lot about bugs, they complain mostly about game design.
Oh yes, problems can be imaginary. If the their own 'solution' is serving their own interest and not the interest of a significant share of the game population than the problem is mostly imaginary or fake.
Yes, haha, brain scans, haha, go figure, haha, brain scans.
Even in my small country, some rather small usability companies are using EEG brain scanners. And they use it in projects with just a few ten thousands users. I don't have to tell that these projects have a far lower budget as ZOS is having?
Glad your country has people having their brains monitored, but this not the case in game development for the most of companies. Whilst I'd agree that it's an interesting concept it is not in the mainstream.
Can you link the reasearch you are always refering to, would make an interesting read.0 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭Cherryblossom wrote: »
Glad your country has people having their brains monitored, but this not the case in game development for the most of companies. Whilst I'd agree that it's an interesting concept it is not in the mainstream.
Can you link the reasearch you are always refering to, would make an interesting read.
With EEG's you can measure emotions and stress. They are more accurate as someone telling later "oh yeah, I was stressed at that specific point".
And do we have emotions and stress in games? Yes we do. You can bet they could be of use. And they are already using them.
Most of these UX and usability authorities have a website. Google their names and you'll find their sites.
However, most reports are behind a paywall, but some release summaries and conclusions for free.
Maybe you can start here:
http://www.nngroup.com/reports/
http://deborahjmayhewassociates.com/
http://www.cooper.com/
http://www.jnd.org/
http://www.sensible.com/
http://guidelines.usability.gov/Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Do you know which game is more like ESO?
Its Bless online(free to play), its having alliance war, sex with NPC, 3 fractions ,etc.
Once this game is out, its BB(bye bye) for ESO.
Sex with an NPC? lol
So after a while it's like a Second Life with some RPG functionality? No, but thank you.
I'm not a fan of F2P. It isn't free. If you want to catch up with the peloton, you'll have to pay. Mostly a lot.
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
FuzzyDuck79✭✭✭Someone mentioned pts... are the guys on there listing the bugs/problems that they find or are ZOS just sitting back watching them play like fore mentioned? Do the people on pts have an opinion and are they listened to? Are they the "good" players? Are they the ones that are having longer load screens because they post problems? I'm genuinely curious now.Edited by FuzzyDuck79 on September 30, 2015 1:38PM0
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Salmonoid✭✭✭Generally people who enjoy the game and do well at the game do not need to watch things like ESO Live or come on here and complain with the constant circle jerk of people who have no idea how the play the game or what they're talking about.
All is well.Australian - PS4 NA
VR16 WoodElf Nightblade
It's not the peel, it's the nana.0 -
Sensesfail13✭✭✭✭Yes, PTS problems were very vocally announced and much of the community said it was a bad idea to implement the major changes they did. ZoS didnt listen and implemented them anyway. Now their game is dying but Im sure they have the 10 or so fanbodys that are happy with it. Have fun!Wisherr, Dragonknight, Haderus, NA Server.
Wisher of Naught, Nightblade, Haderus, NA Server.
Guild officer: Abandoned Legion6 -
FuzzyDuck79✭✭✭I don't know how to play the game because it won't let me play it! 1hour of problems for 3 minutes of playing time. How can I ever do well or learn to play If I can't get in to the game to play it??2
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bunnytrix✭✭✭✭The PTS is just there for form's sake. To give people the illusion that player testing matters. As @SeptimusDova says above, people who really care about the game spend a hell of a lot of time there, giving large amounts of feedback, reporting bug after bug after bug...only to have all of it completely ignored and for the reported bugs to make it to live again and again.
I have seen a lot of discontent on these forums since beta, but never so much as since 1.7. For many of us..it totally ruined the game. Devaluing the base game and nerfing the hell out of everything to force people into buying a DLC is a very nasty underhanded, money grabbing tactic, which has, and will, backfire massively.
And for certain people here trying to derail this thread, the people who post their opinions here and criticise ZOS are in the vast majority people who love the game and want only the best for the game and the devs, and wish only for the game to live long and prosper.
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FuzzyDuck79✭✭✭And that's the shame of it. I would have bought the dlc the way the game was. I would have bought all future dlc. I was gearing up to buy all the dlc coming over the years. I loved the game that much. Now I'm not going to buy anything in future because of lost faith and an inability to log in the game and play it.0
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I gave up on them as soon as this DLC was released it's ridiculous how bad they represent themselves2
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PinoZino✭✭✭✭The PTS is just there for form's sake. To give people the illusion that player testing matters. As @SeptimusDova says above, people who really care about the game spend a hell of a lot of time there, giving large amounts of feedback, reporting bug after bug after bug...only to have all of it completely ignored and for the reported bugs to make it to live again and again.
I have seen a lot of discontent on these forums since beta, but never so much as since 1.7. For many of us..it totally ruined the game. Devaluing the base game and nerfing the hell out of everything to force people into buying a DLC is a very nasty underhanded, money grabbing tactic, which has, and will, backfire massively.
And for certain people here trying to derail this thread, the people who post their opinions here and criticise ZOS are in the vast majority people who love the game and want only the best for the game and the devs, and wish only for the game to live long and prosper.
Sorry, but what do you expect?
Ask an user opinion about some functionality and you'll get 500 different opinions.
Mmm, what should they do next? Try out these 500 uhu brilliant ideas? Will cost a lot of money. And time.
I'm working now 28 years in the software business, I was never on a project were we actual used user input. Not once.
Did we talk with users? Sure. To create goodwill, for PR purposes. And we did listen when they raised a bug or other issues.
Were they unimportant? Not at all. They were very important. We did care a lot about them. But not by listening to them.
It doesn't work, because the user isn't a designer, he isn't an UX guru, he isn't a dev guy, he isn't an analyst, he isn't a software architect, he isn't a specialist in anything, his opinion doesn't matter.
He's just a player. Yes, hard to accept. Hello? I'm using my car 4 hours per day. Yeah, it makes me an excellent car designer. Really. Ah come on...
Next to that, he is not aware about agenda's, deadlines, cost efficiency, budgets, available manpower, technical, practical and legal constraints. He doesn't know that 1 piece of functionality can be connected with another. If you hit one, you might collapse 10 others. He has no clue about the source code, the architecture, the backend databases and the network issues.
He doesn't know *PEEP* about economy, psychology, gameplay, game design or whatever.
Most have no clue at all about how an average software methodology looks like.
It really is the same as some engineers who are building a bridge ask the input of 'bridge-using-noob' to build the bridge. OMG, if these engineers actually would implement the input of the bridge-using noob, the bridge would collapse.
Woho, but not with games, Pino, not with games!
Eh no? And why would that be? Because it looks so simple? Wake up, it isn't simple. It's very complex. There's a reason why all the people involved are brilliant guys and girls, however due the complexity they all make a long list of mistakes.
And now some people really think that any dev team will make their work harder by listening to unqualified and unexperienced people?
I say to you: wake up!
It can be fun for an outsider to talk about solutions. Why not? But don't take your solutions too serious.Edited by PinoZino on September 30, 2015 2:43PMFounder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me count the ways:- No new Trial for over a year. None even announced as upcoming. Why PVE?
- "PvP" update comes and make it hard to actually PvP since Cyrodiil is meaningless. Why PvP?
- You sit in your basement for a week without showering and become Emperor, you get a costume. you sit in your basement for a weak without showering and nuke zombies, goblins, and daedra, you gain permanent power, more resources, more passives, more defenses.
- Everyone knows a key DK skill Dragon Blood is bad. We have to wait until next year to get it adjusted.
- They have established a precedent and policy of locking new gear behind ridiculous RNG grind and nerfing that gear before every update.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
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I am sorry for your business.I'm working now 28 years in the software business.
I was never on a project were we actual used user input. Not once.
I had the privilege to work with some of the best games designers of the world, selling titles in millions. Do you know what these people say? They say that many players, playing the game many hours per day, know the game much better than the designers do. The master players try everything and know everything, every trick, every exploit, every strategy. Therefore, the opinion of the master players is extremely valuable to master designers. Therefore, the master players often are part of a closed company testing group, receiving all titles months in advance, from early alpha over beta to release, to check the new software from a user perspective on balance, bugs, usability and receive user input.
Input from master players is essential for master designers,
is essential for companies selling millions of copies in successful franchises for decades.
Edited by BalticBlues on September 30, 2015 3:12PM3
This discussion has been closed.