Done until CP system is fixed.

Master_Kas · September 2015

Insurrektion wrote: »

It's obvious CP was implemented to keep ESO PVEers playing between expansions. It is a building without a ceiling. The more PVE/time you play, the stronger your character becomes and without limits.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler CP literally breaks PVP. Please have it turned off while in PVP zones. It is the easiest fix I can think of to balance the system without removing it or changing how it already works.

Removing ALL cp would ruin our stats, remember how stats was calculated from 1.5 -> 1.6 ? Meaning without some CP your stats was way worse than in 1.5.

Wolfahm · September 2015

I returned to ESO when IC was released, and well CP may have some problems I don't think its as large as people say it is. This seems to be the new thing to blame for being killed by another player, as i have been messaged by over 15 people this week from other factions calling me a "CP grinding tool" and other things I cant post here after losing a 1v1 or even 1vX. I have 80 CP.... Maybe I have yet to run into these people with 300+ CP but I don't see the problem.

Yonkit · September 2015

Hahaha... that conversation got nasty real quick. I have been running all weapon dmg enchants since gilliam shamed me into doing so not too long after 1.6 hit. I can't stand it when he does things better than me, I feel so casual. That was when I had something like 90 cp. Sustain is about playstyle and builds not 'OMG CP.' If anyone is having problems sustaining, they gotta adjust their build to their playstyle or adjust their playstyle to their build.

Anyways, you can come kick my ass anytime arax. Oh man the reverberating bash exploit reminded me of the duel i had with you where you used that move on me and all my master weap jabs stopped healing me and I died

I miss 1.5.

Araxleon · September 2015

Yonkit wrote: »

Hahaha... that conversation got nasty real quick. I have been running all weapon dmg enchants since gilliam shamed me into doing so not too long after 1.6 hit. I can't stand it when he does things better than me, I feel so casual. That was when I had something like 90 cp. Sustain is about playstyle and builds not 'OMG CP.' If anyone is having problems sustaining, they gotta adjust their build to their playstyle or adjust their playstyle to their build.

Anyways, you can come kick my ass anytime arax. Oh man the reverberating bash exploit reminded me of the duel i had with you where you used that move on me and all my master weap jabs stopped healing me and I died

I miss 1.5.

Haha yeah healing debuff on it is amazing :P

Sucks that some Spam it to bug people out grrr,

Poxheart · September 2015

Earendal wrote: »

To quote Meth from the post showing him solo Molag Bal,

i spent a lot of hours grinding and u know what i say? o well. what will ppl whine about when they're still getting rektd?

bugs. he's macroing. i dont have l337 items. skills are broke. theyre running in a zerg. im so laggy 153,234 ping. guy is a hacker. something in my eye. hands cramping up. dog chewed the power cord. internet connection must not be working. my group sucks. i wasnt really trying. i cant roll dodge. why arnt my weapons swaping. does this game even have CC break. i wasnt focused. youre zerging with 6 ppl. 12v12 me bro. NB cloak QQ. shield breaker QQ. i dont have my cyro buffs. my food wore off. my drink ran out. we got nightcapped. we got daycapped. brunch capped. mid-afternoon capped. my class nerfed to the ground. fall damage. i alt tabbed. spilled my coffee on my keyboard. i only theory craft dude, i dont actually play.

I, personally, have never ran into a situation where I've come out thinking "that person had more CPs than me." I do feel, like Meth, that most people on these forums, and in-game, will conveniently move to the next excuse if anything is done about the perceived CP imbalance.

I've gotta ask: when is meth ever without a group of other high CP allies (other than when soloing Molag's balls)?

Running solo/small group its pretty obvious when you face high CP opponents vs low CP opponents.

sabresandiego_ESO · September 2015

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

Low IQ alert. Anyone that thinks champ points don't make a difference when skill, build, and gear are similar needs to have their head examined. Even 50 champ points can make a difference, let alone hundreds. Araxleon and hammayolettuce are on point, and shelgon is out to lunch.

Ezareth · September 2015

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

Low IQ alert. Anyone that thinks champ points don't make a difference when skill, build, and gear are similar needs to have their head examined. Even 50 champ points can make a difference, let alone hundreds. Araxleon and hammayolettuce are on point, and shelgon is out to lunch.

Exactly. Fights between good players are almost always close and often decided by a stroke of luck. When the deck is stacked on one side the chances of success drop radically for the guy with the least CP. There *is* a skill cap in this game and once you are playing nearly perfectly it all becomes a numbers game and CP decides that for you.

Shelgon · September 2015

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

Low IQ alert. Anyone that thinks champ points don't make a difference when skill, build, and gear are similar needs to have their head examined. Even 50 champ points can make a difference, let alone hundreds. Araxleon and hammayolettuce are on point, and shelgon is out to lunch.

If you think 50 champion points means the difference between winning and losing, you clearly need to l2p.

Ezareth wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

Low IQ alert. Anyone that thinks champ points don't make a difference when skill, build, and gear are similar needs to have their head examined. Even 50 champ points can make a difference, let alone hundreds. Araxleon and hammayolettuce are on point, and shelgon is out to lunch.

Exactly. Fights between good players are almost always close and often decided by a stroke of luck. When the deck is stacked on one side the chances of success drop radically for the guy with the least CP. There *is* a skill cap in this game and once you are playing nearly perfectly it all becomes a numbers game and CP decides that for you.

You also need to l2p if you think winning is decided by a stroke of luck, have you even seen top players fight? They just fight, and fight, and fight until one of them slips up, and that's where it lies, the person who won didn't get lucky, the person who won was the person who played consistently well.

As for the skill cap, I won't deny that, as there's a skill cap in almost anything you do in life, you can't get infinitely better. But there ARE however different ways to play well, and different ways to beat people, even at the skill cap. And if you're losing, you might just have to tweak your playstyle and your build, maybe just for that person you're dueling.

Have you even thought for a second that the reason you're losing those duels was not because someone has 3 more champion points than you, but because they learned the way you play, or they're playstyle pretty much hard counters yours? Of course not, so lets just blame it on minute increases to recovery and reduce cost. (relative to your own, that is.)

Xeven · September 2015

Let me just tell you what 600cp buys a typical magicka build.

16% reduced spell cost
25% magicka regeneration
12% max stamina

Thats just 200 cp, lets keep going...

24% increased shields
16% reduced elemental damage taken (including shields)
16% reduced magic damage taken (including shields)
12% max health

Thats 400 cp... Were not done yet.

25% increased magic damage
25% increased crit damage
12% max magicka

Thats 600. Imagine 1600. With 200 CP you cant even max out one single star.

krim · September 2015

Like i said 1.6 and CP system limit your play style depending on how many CPs you have to work with. In cyrodiil where its about putting yourself in better situations, and fights dont have an actual start they just happen. Someone normally gets jumped or you are running to a better spot to 1vx etc. You can have a build that preforms very well for you in most situations. Except that one time where maybe if you had more CP for more cost reduction here or w.e stat you need(break free, roll dodge, regen, etc) for your build. You could of came out on top and won that fight or got away. Its obvious CPs can and will make your character stronger. I just dont like the limit of options and play style that comes with it. Especially when thats what ESO was all about.

You might have lost that fight because he got the jump, or you guys were fighting 1v1 and someone jumped in vice versa. Big group fights i dont think you can blame CPs for when you die. These are how the majority of fights in Cyrodiil play out. Outside of friendly duels fights are hardly ever 100% fair. You cant say oh i need more cps or skill because you just got blind sided by a group of 10 or a stealth ganker.

Say you have a stam build you want wep dmg and stam regen. You are a NB so lets say you want to be able to use shadow cloak. Thats a magica skill though so your not going to be able to cast it that many times before running dry. If you have a little amount of CP your options and abilities are limited. As you start accumulating more CP you have the flexibility to use different sets and armors as they seem fit reducing the cost of shadow cloak while not having to sacrifice your stam power.

The problem is how you obtain CPs correlates with how much time you spend farming them. It turns out that farming pve mobs is the fastest way to gain cps, and anyone who doesnt have the time and rather spend it actually pvping are at a disadvantage because you cant kill players as often as re spawning mobs in a cave. Implementing a system that creates gaps between players in a game where players are already known to abuse skills and builds within the game. Its no wonder we already have people complaining about imbalance, and anyone with knowledge on how to build characters saw it from the start. In pve and for pve players this system is golden, but in pvp this just creates to much imbalance and limitations on players that dont have a lot of CPs.

k2blader · September 2015

Wow, some people who had previously seemed to be on the other side of the argument are coming around to the right one. How cool. Coulda been a bit quicker but not complaining. :-P

Poxheart · September 2015

Shelgon wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

Low IQ alert. Anyone that thinks champ points don't make a difference when skill, build, and gear are similar needs to have their head examined. Even 50 champ points can make a difference, let alone hundreds. Araxleon and hammayolettuce are on point, and shelgon is out to lunch.

If you think 50 champion points means the difference between winning and losing, you clearly need to l2p.

Ezareth wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

Low IQ alert. Anyone that thinks champ points don't make a difference when skill, build, and gear are similar needs to have their head examined. Even 50 champ points can make a difference, let alone hundreds. Araxleon and hammayolettuce are on point, and shelgon is out to lunch.

Exactly. Fights between good players are almost always close and often decided by a stroke of luck. When the deck is stacked on one side the chances of success drop radically for the guy with the least CP. There *is* a skill cap in this game and once you are playing nearly perfectly it all becomes a numbers game and CP decides that for you.

You also need to l2p if you think winning is decided by a stroke of luck, have you even seen top players fight? They just fight, and fight, and fight until one of them slips up, and that's where it lies, the person who won didn't get lucky, the person who won was the person who played consistently well.

As for the skill cap, I won't deny that, as there's a skill cap in almost anything you do in life, you can't get infinitely better. But there ARE however different ways to play well, and different ways to beat people, even at the skill cap. And if you're losing, you might just have to tweak your playstyle and your build, maybe just for that person you're dueling.

Have you even thought for a second that the reason you're losing those duels was not because someone has 3 more champion points than you, but because they learned the way you play, or they're playstyle pretty much hard counters yours? Of course not, so lets just blame it on minute increases to recovery and reduce cost. (relative to your own, that is.)

Where's the LOL button for this nub smack talking EZ and Sabre. SMH as the kids say...

Makkir · September 2015

Would anyone be opposed to just simply disabling CPs in PvP.....?

LegendaryChef · September 2015

The only way to even slightly bring back what balance pvp has left would be to either remove CP in pvp, cap it at a reasonable level or give everyone say 300 each when they log into cyrodiil.

Ezareth · September 2015

Shelgon wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

Low IQ alert. Anyone that thinks champ points don't make a difference when skill, build, and gear are similar needs to have their head examined. Even 50 champ points can make a difference, let alone hundreds. Araxleon and hammayolettuce are on point, and shelgon is out to lunch.

If you think 50 champion points means the difference between winning and losing, you clearly need to l2p.

Ezareth wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

Low IQ alert. Anyone that thinks champ points don't make a difference when skill, build, and gear are similar needs to have their head examined. Even 50 champ points can make a difference, let alone hundreds. Araxleon and hammayolettuce are on point, and shelgon is out to lunch.

Exactly. Fights between good players are almost always close and often decided by a stroke of luck. When the deck is stacked on one side the chances of success drop radically for the guy with the least CP. There *is* a skill cap in this game and once you are playing nearly perfectly it all becomes a numbers game and CP decides that for you.

You also need to l2p if you think winning is decided by a stroke of luck, have you even seen top players fight? They just fight, and fight, and fight until one of them slips up, and that's where it lies, the person who won didn't get lucky, the person who won was the person who played consistently well.

As for the skill cap, I won't deny that, as there's a skill cap in almost anything you do in life, you can't get infinitely better. But there ARE however different ways to play well, and different ways to beat people, even at the skill cap. And if you're losing, you might just have to tweak your playstyle and your build, maybe just for that person you're dueling.

Have you even thought for a second that the reason you're losing those duels was not because someone has 3 more champion points than you, but because they learned the way you play, or they're playstyle pretty much hard counters yours? Of course not, so lets just blame it on minute increases to recovery and reduce cost. (relative to your own, that is.)

Yeah I see top players fight every time I run into one. You should watch the fight between me and Araxleon(the OP) in my last Sorc video. There was a moment in the fight where he had me out of stamina and he soul harvested me...and it took me to a tiny sliver of life before I could get my healing ward up. If it had crit I was dead.... or instead if had another 20 or 30 CPs into thaumaturge I would have been dead and the stroke of luck (that crit) wouldn't have been necessary.

Crit streaks aka "burst" are often what decided the victors of battles between good players because as you say the fights go on forever otherwise because neither play runs out of resources.

I've lost to players because my drink had run out and I didn't know until I was out of resources and it was too late. I've lost to players who damn near insta-gibbed me through block who have 3X+ my champion points. It happens, I don't cry about it, I've accepted it in the same way I've accepted there are emperors running around, but to say that CPs don't make a huge difference is ignorant. I know players that I've killed solo who have far more CPs than me, but that is only because they were not very good players.

There is a Nightblade player I know who I used to kill more than he killed me back in 1.5. He now has over 1900 champion points and I don't stand a chance at killing him because not only is he an extremely skilled player, he also has virtually every beneficial passive and ability in the game. I'd have a better chance killing an Emperor Sypher DK than I would that player right now. That's the whole point of the thread.

Xeven · September 2015

Makkir wrote: »

Would anyone be opposed to just simply disabling CPs in PvP.....?

Me, because they took away some of our power and put it in the Champion System when it was created. We would have to completely change our builds if they did that.

A seasonal cap is a good solution IMO. It's exactly the same as a VR cap. Sure new guys will be at a disadvantage, but the old guys arent getting any stronger, and there is light at the end of the tunnel. I will never catch up to people with 1k+ CP.

Sausage · September 2015

230 CP is good, you should be rocking with it already.

Master_Kas · September 2015

Makkir wrote: »

Would anyone be opposed to just simply disabling CPs in PvP.....?

Yes because we lost stats and crit when 1.6 came out (from 1.5)

A cap would be much better so people dont run around with 1k+ cp while most players are at 100-300.

Ryuho · September 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

Low IQ alert. Anyone that thinks champ points don't make a difference when skill, build, and gear are similar needs to have their head examined. Even 50 champ points can make a difference, let alone hundreds. Araxleon and hammayolettuce are on point, and shelgon is out to lunch.

If you think 50 champion points means the difference between winning and losing, you clearly need to l2p.

Ezareth wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

Low IQ alert. Anyone that thinks champ points don't make a difference when skill, build, and gear are similar needs to have their head examined. Even 50 champ points can make a difference, let alone hundreds. Araxleon and hammayolettuce are on point, and shelgon is out to lunch.

Exactly. Fights between good players are almost always close and often decided by a stroke of luck. When the deck is stacked on one side the chances of success drop radically for the guy with the least CP. There *is* a skill cap in this game and once you are playing nearly perfectly it all becomes a numbers game and CP decides that for you.

You also need to l2p if you think winning is decided by a stroke of luck, have you even seen top players fight? They just fight, and fight, and fight until one of them slips up, and that's where it lies, the person who won didn't get lucky, the person who won was the person who played consistently well.

As for the skill cap, I won't deny that, as there's a skill cap in almost anything you do in life, you can't get infinitely better. But there ARE however different ways to play well, and different ways to beat people, even at the skill cap. And if you're losing, you might just have to tweak your playstyle and your build, maybe just for that person you're dueling.

Have you even thought for a second that the reason you're losing those duels was not because someone has 3 more champion points than you, but because they learned the way you play, or they're playstyle pretty much hard counters yours? Of course not, so lets just blame it on minute increases to recovery and reduce cost. (relative to your own, that is.)

Yeah I see top players fight every time I run into one. You should watch the fight between me and Araxleon(the OP) in my last Sorc video. There was a moment in the fight where he had me out of stamina and he soul harvested me...and it took me to a tiny sliver of life before I could get my healing ward up. If it had crit I was dead.... or instead if had another 20 or 30 CPs into thaumaturge I would have been dead and the stroke of luck (that crit) wouldn't have been necessary.

Crit streaks aka "burst" are often what decided the victors of battles between good players because as you say the fights go on forever otherwise because neither play runs out of resources.

I've lost to players because my drink had run out and I didn't know until I was out of resources and it was too late. I've lost to players who damn near insta-gibbed me through block who have 3X+ my champion points. It happens, I don't cry about it, I've accepted it in the same way I've accepted there are emperors running around, but to say that CPs don't make a huge difference is ignorant. I know players that I've killed solo who have far more CPs than me, but that is only because they were not very good players.

There is a Nightblade player I know who I used to kill more than he killed me back in 1.5. He now has over 1900 champion points and I don't stand a chance at killing him because not only is he an extremely skilled player, he also has virtually every beneficial passive and ability in the game. I'd have a better chance killing an Emperor Sypher DK than I would that player right now. That's the whole point of the thread.

1.9k CPs is just SICK.. no life mode perma activ, yupi.. Thats why cap is needed!! @ZOS Make it 500 or 600 at the start and increase cap by 200 evry 3 months or so.. If u make it 500 and in next 3 months double it to 1k u will fail again.. Imo casual will get 1 or 2 CPs playing lets say 2hrs daily, so in 3 months around 180, should be okey such way..

Bipolo · September 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

I was surprised it took molag for them to understand, I thought it was obvious you coulds
could solo it

For sure. I mean, you'd think they would have spotted it earlier, like already back on 1.6 PTS, where 3500 CP builds where solo'ing VDSA, Vdungeons and trial bosses in crappy PTS gear.

But nope, CP only gives a minor boost(cant believe some fanbois+grinders still hold on to this massive lie), apparently the game is all about "skill"

I can drink to that /drink

ArcVelarian · September 2015

Exploiters got something like 500 CP the first week. That aside, here's what they need to do:

Soft caps around 900 CP, hard caps/CP limit around 1200. People with over 1200 CP get those points refunded as gold or crown points.
DRAMATICALLY buff inspiration and allow it to stack x10 for a CP gain buff of 120%. The amount it stacks decreases goes something like:
600 CP (x8), 700 CP (x6), 800 CP (x4), 900 CP (x2), 1000 (x0). There's your catch up mechanic.
(Perma)Ban the people who exploited to get hundreds of CPs in week one. You know who they are Zeni.
Add some solo dailies that are not in Cyrodiil of all places, aside from the Wrothgar update.
Buff quest XP gains for cadwell silver/gold so that when you finish Cadwell's Gold you can be vet 16.

frozywozy · September 2015

Shelgon wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.

And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.

@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.

Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.

In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.

Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.

You clearly didn't understand my point. Araxleon fight both people who are better and who are worse than him. Who said he only fights people better than him (skill wise) ? You brought that yourself. I stated that he duels great players on a regular basis. People of his caliber.

Now the point is, someone with 230 CPs stands absolutely no chance in the world against someone with 600 CPs who know what he's doing unless, like what Ezareth said, he gets extremely lucky with crits streak (thanks to RNG).

Same goes for example for Formula 1 drivers. The difference between lap time is so close, if one car would have 12% better brakes, 12% better tires and 25% more horse power, no one would stand a chance against him.

Ezareth · September 2015

ArcVelarian wrote: »

Exploiters got something like 500 CP the first week. That aside, here's what they need to do:
Soft caps around 900 CP, hard caps/CP limit around 1200. People with over 1200 CP get those points refunded as gold or crown points.

DRAMATICALLY buff inspiration and allow it to stack x10 for a CP gain buff of 120%. The amount it stacks decreases goes something like:
600 CP (x8), 700 CP (x6), 800 CP (x4), 900 CP (x2), 1000 (x0). There's your catch up mechanic.

(Perma)Ban the people who exploited to get hundreds of CPs in week one. You know who they are Zeni.

Add some solo dailies that are not in Cyrodiil of all places, aside from the Wrothgar update.

Buff quest XP gains for cadwell silver/gold so that when you finish Cadwell's Gold you can be vet 16.

We've already established that "exploiters" didn't get 500 CPs in the first week. Please quit propogating this garbage. A week after launch the #1 CP player was at 150 CPs, you can find the post by Gina Bruno back in the archives if you wish. The Skyreach Catacomb farm was the best farm but it was quickly hotfixed and it never was an exploit. Some people had permanent enlightenment but the #1 CP player did not. Many of us did however received 4 enlightened champion points a day for the first few days, this again was a bug and not an exploit.

ZtruK · September 2015

So again, why can't we have two CP trees. One for inside Cyrodiil/IC and the other for PvE?

Points gained from PvP kills are the only thing that generate CP for the Cyrodiil/IC tree. Would anyone really care of someone had 1600 CP if they knew it was 100% from PvP kills?

QuebraRegra · September 2015

They're hard at work balancing the game:
d6a1143f571184db25f94613edd43b40af6d3a629221aba00d9efdcfef5efd84.jpg

Makkir · September 2015

QuebraRegra wrote: »

They're hard at work balancing the game:

I thought that was your typical Nightblade player

krim · October 2015

Makkir wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

They're hard at work balancing the game:

I thought that was your typical Nightblade player

You can say that for about 90% of the entire player base.

Celas_Dranacea · October 2015

I agree with original post

There's a type of player who has all the time in the world to farm cp and then come on here and say they don't matter.

Thank you zos for a cp cap - maybe I can start enjoying this game more without worrying about keeping up with the grinders

Xiphyla · October 2015

The CP cap wont help much since it's going to be launching with orsinium which is like few months away and rumours that i heard is the CP cap is probably going to be like 1-1.2k CP which is dumb ?
CP system only help hardcore players/ grinders but aint gonna be helping those more casual players sadly. If zos want to do a CP Cap , it need to be a better number like 300-500 CP range and not 1-1.2k CP .

Ghostbane · October 2015

If they want to begin a seasonal cap of 1.2k CP, I'm fine with that, provided we have a viable catch up mechanic in place. In reality, said catch up mechanic is the only way Seasonal Caps provide a full term solution, instead of a part time one.

Say the cap was 1200 CP, the first 3rd of this tier should be permanent x4 enlightenment ( 0 - 400cp [10m XP] ), the second third should be x2 enlightenment ( 400 - 800cp [20m XP] ), and then the final third, should be business as usual.

Regardless of what the cap total is, ZoS *has* to implement a catch up mechanic such as this (1[x4],2[x2],3) from the beginning of said cap.