Maintenance for the week of August 3:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – August 3
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – August 4, 5:00AM EDT (9:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – August 3
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – August 4, 5:00AM EDT (9:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
Done until CP system is fixed.
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Shelgon✭✭✭✭As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Edited by Shelgon on September 28, 2015 8:51PMV16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC2 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT7 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.Edited by Shelgon on September 28, 2015 9:59PMV16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC1 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭double post
Edited by Shelgon on September 28, 2015 9:59PMV16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC0 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT4 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.V16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC0 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT5 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
EDIT: Essa-Kh is also running around the same regen that I do, and he's a top player with most likely more champ points than me. I almost guarantee, being the skillful player he is, doesn't run out of stamina on the regular.Edited by Shelgon on September 28, 2015 10:17PMV16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC0 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
well from your brief description of your build i can tell you with 100% certainty that no matter how much sustain you think you have, you do not have the sustain of someone with 600+ cp running your exact setup.
Anyone with real experience and knows real eso numbers will agree.♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT1 -
Ernest145✭✭✭Sure of course skill matters, but when it comes down to it if two players are at the exact same skill level the one with more cp will win. Of course it is almost impossible to actually test it but still its true just because of how much an advantage cp gives you when fighting players with much lower cp. I don't get why people are so against a more balanced game it really makes no sense.Invictus
Big Ernie - Templar - EP Grand Overlord0 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
well from your brief description of your build i can tell you with 100% certainty that no matter how much sustain you think you have, you do not have the sustain of someone with 600+ cp running your exact setup.
Anyone with real experience and knows real eso numbers will agree.
I disagree, but I digress, thanks for the discussion.Sure of course skill matters, but when it comes down to it if two players are at the exact same skill level the one with more cp will win. Of course it is almost impossible to actually test it but still its true just because of how much an advantage cp gives you when fighting players with much lower cp. I don't get why people are so against a more balanced game it really makes no sense.
I understand, but the point I was trying to make is that people were making it seem impossible, get better at the game (not saying disrespectfully), and you will be able to beat people who even have more CP than you, it's simple. Advantage =/= 100% win.Edited by Shelgon on September 28, 2015 10:27PMV16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC0 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
well from your brief description of your build i can tell you with 100% certainty that no matter how much sustain you think you have, you do not have the sustain of someone with 600+ cp running your exact setup.
Anyone with real experience and knows real eso numbers will agree.
I disagree, but I digress, thanks for the discussion.
two questions?
how long have you been pvping in eso?
PC or Console?♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT0 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
well from your brief description of your build i can tell you with 100% certainty that no matter how much sustain you think you have, you do not have the sustain of someone with 600+ cp running your exact setup.
Anyone with real experience and knows real eso numbers will agree.
I disagree, but I digress, thanks for the discussion.
two questions?
how long have you been pvping in eso?
PC or Console?
About 5 months, on PC. Where I stand on the ladder, a bit above average IMO. Then again, that's my opinion.Edited by Shelgon on September 28, 2015 10:34PMV16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC0 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
well from your brief description of your build i can tell you with 100% certainty that no matter how much sustain you think you have, you do not have the sustain of someone with 600+ cp running your exact setup.
Anyone with real experience and knows real eso numbers will agree.
I disagree, but I digress, thanks for the discussion.
two questions?
how long have you been pvping in eso?
PC or Console?
About 5 months, on PC. Where I stand on the ladder, a bit above average IMO. Then again, that's my opinion.
That puts your start date roughly around May which is a little better than console players, but leagues behind PC players who have been playing since day one and have experienced all the patches. Being that you weren't around for the actual days of if you ran out of stam you died you then you can't really say that you are above average. You were spoiled with being able to make mistakes and get away with it, which is even worse now in this update.♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT3 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
well from your brief description of your build i can tell you with 100% certainty that no matter how much sustain you think you have, you do not have the sustain of someone with 600+ cp running your exact setup.
Anyone with real experience and knows real eso numbers will agree.
I disagree, but I digress, thanks for the discussion.
two questions?
how long have you been pvping in eso?
PC or Console?
About 5 months, on PC. Where I stand on the ladder, a bit above average IMO. Then again, that's my opinion.
That puts your start date roughly around May which is a little better than console players, but leagues behind PC players who have been playing since day one and have experienced all the patches. Being that you weren't around for the actual days of if you ran out of stam you died you then you can't really say that you are above average. You were spoiled with being able to make mistakes and get away with it, which is even worse now in this update.
Snu I think it's that's a bit tacky to say the least. You could still run out of stam back and die when he started. Obviously the curve has gone up for the threshold on how many mistakes people can make and still get away with. Someone doesn't have to have been here since release to be good at PvP or duels.
Having played with both of you, he is above average at PvP.Edited by Takllin on September 28, 2015 10:52PMJadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
well from your brief description of your build i can tell you with 100% certainty that no matter how much sustain you think you have, you do not have the sustain of someone with 600+ cp running your exact setup.
Anyone with real experience and knows real eso numbers will agree.
I disagree, but I digress, thanks for the discussion.
two questions?
how long have you been pvping in eso?
PC or Console?
About 5 months, on PC. Where I stand on the ladder, a bit above average IMO. Then again, that's my opinion.
That puts your start date roughly around May which is a little better than console players, but leagues behind PC players who have been playing since day one and have experienced all the patches. Being that you weren't around for the actual days of if you ran out of stam you died you then you can't really say that you are above average. You were spoiled with being able to make mistakes and get away with it, which is even worse now in this update.
Snu I think it's that's a bit tacky to say the least. You could still run out of stam back and die when he started. Obviously the curve has gone up for the threshold on how many mistakes people can make and still get away with. Someone doesn't have to have been here since release to be good at PvP or duels.
Not saying he isnt better because he isnt a day 1 player but hes not better than araxleon which was my original point and main argument. To discred arax saying he doesnt know how to play is incredibly incorrect.♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT2 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
well from your brief description of your build i can tell you with 100% certainty that no matter how much sustain you think you have, you do not have the sustain of someone with 600+ cp running your exact setup.
Anyone with real experience and knows real eso numbers will agree.
I disagree, but I digress, thanks for the discussion.
two questions?
how long have you been pvping in eso?
PC or Console?
About 5 months, on PC. Where I stand on the ladder, a bit above average IMO. Then again, that's my opinion.
That puts your start date roughly around May which is a little better than console players, but leagues behind PC players who have been playing since day one and have experienced all the patches. Being that you weren't around for the actual days of if you ran out of stam you died you then you can't really say that you are above average. You were spoiled with being able to make mistakes and get away with it, which is even worse now in this update.
I've actually been playing this game since launch, but you asked me when I started PvPing, and I'm assuming you mean seriously like with an actual build. I've always kept up with the PvP scene and talked with players who did PvP on the regular. I've played old PvP, and I'm not going to say it was harder, but it promoted a different game sense than this update. I personally feel like this update is much more balanced, and yeah, it does give room for mistakes, but I feel like this promotes much better game sense than before, with more focus on resource management and the sort.
Also, get your head out of your self-righteous a**hole. Someone who was good back in the day but sucks now can't say they are above average, because they aren't, they suck in the current patch. IMO in the current patch, and the previous one (1.6), I'm above average.
I was done with the discussion, but you still proceeded to try to talk down to me, just shows what kind of player you are.
V16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC1 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
EDIT: Essa-Kh is also running around the same regen that I do, and he's a top player with most likely more champ points than me. I almost guarantee, being the skillful player he is, doesn't run out of stamina on the regular.
Essah has over 1k cp with also being one of the best stamplars in eso. you cant even compare yourself lol♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT1 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭nvmEdited by Takllin on September 28, 2015 11:03PMJadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
Araxleon is one of the best duelers in the game and probably the best magicka NB theory crafter NA. I dont think resource management is an issue for him. In all honesty it does come down to CP once you reach the top. The more CP you have the higher your resources are, the more you can focus into pure DPS and less on suitability. On top of all of that mistakes go unpunished now even more so than 1.6.
But that's the thing, unless the other person is kicking 2k+ more champ points than you, you shouldn't be blaming CP. And if 2 people who are on the same EXACT skill level were to face off, the person with more CP would win, yeah, but that's impossible and it gets the discussion no where. And in no way does having a lot of CP means you can just throw care to the wind and forget about resource management, it's 25% more regen, not a x100 multiplier.
"In all honesty, it does come down to CP once you reach the top."
You say that like the case is everyone at the top is exactly the same skill level, and if you have more CP than the other person, you win, which it's not. There are going to be people who can beat you, and there are going to be people who can't, that's always the case at the top, in ANY game. Again, unless they are running an absurd amount more CP than you, you can beat them with skill. And any top player blaming their losses on CP is no top player IMO.
you do realize those with 600+ CP can start running wep/spell dmg enchants and not be forced into regen or reduced cost enchants. That in itself is a huge .. HUGE .. advantage... Once you have the CP you can set your builds like you werent able to when you have under 500 cp.
I have 264 CP, I run all weapon damage enchants with 1400 stam regen and I still have stamina to fight a long fight with good resource management.
With x3 weapon damage enchants and only 1400 regen and your 264 cp you do not have the sustain to fight along with someone who has 600+. You have much higher increased costs to skills and your regen is not high enough to fill your resource bar once it is full if pressure is being kept on you and forcing you to cc or roll.
You are new here so ill be nice.
How are you going to tell someone else how much sustain they have? How much sustain you have is IMO 30% build, 70% skill, as long as you have good resource management you can easily sustain with my stats.
Considering you think PvP revolves around your build rather than skill, I'd say you were the new one here.
EDIT: Essa-Kh is also running around the same regen that I do, and he's a top player with most likely more champ points than me. I almost guarantee, being the skillful player he is, doesn't run out of stamina on the regular.
Essah has over 1k cp with also being one of the best stamplars in eso. you cant even compare yourself lol
Yeah, he's one of the best, so he's good at the game with close to the same regen as me, and clearly he sustains being the one of the best. I wasn't comparing myself, I was giving an example of a model player.V16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC0 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
I also mentioned bug abuse, normally it wouldn't even be an issue, I could tie against my opponent or flat out beat them let me give you an example of a fight I had (1v2)
both these players I was fighting outside the city, I ran into them randomly one of them was known for lots of CP the other I believe didn't have that much (200-500)
now what do you assume they did? The weaker one kept spaming reverb bash to force me to double CC BREAK + bug the CC break animation will bug! leaving you open for alot more than 0.5 secs (which is about average CC break)
because of this bug I am open for about 1.5 secs... Do you know how hard some people can hit in that time frame with 1.6k+ CP? REALLY HARD. (this bug also applies to lots of knockbacks) thats sorta my open world example.
now to 1v1 (you can dismiss this but im still mentioning it)
about 99% of the time, duels will bug out in some way, shape or form.
If a stamina build is using wrecking blow THAT ALONE means that sooner or later that duel will bug out because of that skill, same can be said about dragons leap and reverb bash (sometimes jabs) I don't blame the people, these skills are amazing standalone but if we are being honest, the knockback bug is something alot of people consider as a reason to slot it.0 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
I also mentioned bug abuse, normally it wouldn't even be an issue, I could tie against my opponent or flat out beat them let me give you an example of a fight I had (1v2)
both these players I was fighting outside the city, I ran into them randomly one of them was known for lots of CP the other I believe didn't have that much (200-500)
now what do you assume they did? The weaker one kept spaming reverb bash to force me to double CC BREAK + bug the CC break animation will bug! leaving you open for alot more than 0.5 secs (which is about average CC break)
because of this bug I am open for about 1.5 secs... Do you know how hard some people can hit in that time frame with 1.6k+ CP? REALLY HARD. (this bug also applies to lots of knockbacks) thats sorta my open world example.
now to 1v1 (you can dismiss this but im still mentioning it)
about 99% of the time, duels will bug out in some way, shape or form.
If a stamina build is using wrecking blow THAT ALONE means that sooner or later that duel will bug out because of that skill, same can be said about dragons leap and reverb bash (sometimes jabs) I don't blame the people, these skills are amazing standalone but if we are being honest, the knockback bug is something alot of people consider as a reason to slot it.
I will admit to misunderstanding the OP, or just not reading all of it (heh). But I do agree with you on the subject, these things that change stats ON TOP of bugs makes for a very unfair fight. I apologize if you felt like I was insulting you, but one of your friends, @frozywozy specifically, kind of implied you were more upset at the CP than the bugs.Edited by Shelgon on September 28, 2015 11:09PMV16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC0 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
I also mentioned bug abuse, normally it wouldn't even be an issue, I could tie against my opponent or flat out beat them let me give you an example of a fight I had (1v2)
both these players I was fighting outside the city, I ran into them randomly one of them was known for lots of CP the other I believe didn't have that much (200-500)
now what do you assume they did? The weaker one kept spaming reverb bash to force me to double CC BREAK + bug the CC break animation will bug! leaving you open for alot more than 0.5 secs (which is about average CC break)
because of this bug I am open for about 1.5 secs... Do you know how hard some people can hit in that time frame with 1.6k+ CP? REALLY HARD. (this bug also applies to lots of knockbacks) thats sorta my open world example.
now to 1v1 (you can dismiss this but im still mentioning it)
about 99% of the time, duels will bug out in some way, shape or form.
If a stamina build is using wrecking blow THAT ALONE means that sooner or later that duel will bug out because of that skill, same can be said about dragons leap and reverb bash (sometimes jabs) I don't blame the people, these skills are amazing standalone but if we are being honest, the knockback bug is something alot of people consider as a reason to slot it.
I will admit to misunderstanding the OP, or just not reading all of it (heh). But I do agree with you on the subject, these things that change stats ON TOP of bugs makes for a very unfair fight. I apologize if you felt like I was insulting you, but one of your friends, @frozywozy specifically, kind of implied you were more upset at the CP than the bugs.
Bugs make hard hitting CP builds 100% worseEdited by Araxleon on September 28, 2015 11:12PM0 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
because of this bug I am open for about 1.5 secs... Do you know how hard some people can hit in that time frame with 1.6k+ CP? REALLY HARD. (this bug also applies to lots of knockbacks) thats sorta my open world example.
There are barely any people with 1.6k+ CP. Why does everyone overexaggerate CP?Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.1 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭Lets show some numbers.
1600 CP = 533 each tree
230 CP = 76 each tree
now 99 points into a single passive will increase said passive to 25% bonus (not all but most)
the person with 76 in each tree cannot reach 99 in ANY, where the person with 533 can 3 passives with 99 points in each tree.
your telling me that's not an advantage?
50% increase healing received/healing done, 25% bonus damage , 25% magic resist ???
where i get...5% healing recieved...11% damage done... 4% magic resist
Like I said to @Ernest145, I do agree, it is an advantage, but again, advantage =/= 100% win. I know, I'm naive, but that's the way I see it, as long as there's a way to trump something with skill, I'm not going to complain about the other person using it. All I have to do is get better.
V16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC0 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭
About 5 months, on PC. Where I stand on the ladder, a bit above average IMO. Then again, that's my opinion.
You from lake Woebegon?
I was playing some golf with some buddies yesterday, usually 3 of us sometimes we end up with a random 4th or just go out as 3. At the course we are playing at I usually shoot around an 85, which isn't as embarrassing as my two buddies who usually shoot around 100, total hacks. So if we bet on the game, holes, etc., I have to take a handicap, or they will just get frustrated because I am taking their money and they have no chance. It made me think about this game where handicapping is oddly reversed. The best players with the most time to practice expect to be better not only because they have time to develop their knowledge of the game and their tactics, but also want statistical advantage over inexperienced players. It's like me demanding my buddies take a handicap! How crazy is that? Well that is the champion system. If it is irrelevant to one's success why are people so passionate about hanging on to them? You'd think they'd want to level the playing field so others getting REKt wouldn't have so many excuses.
“Whatever.”
-Unknown American4 -
Shelgon✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »
About 5 months, on PC. Where I stand on the ladder, a bit above average IMO. Then again, that's my opinion.
You from lake Woebegon?
I was playing some golf with some buddies yesterday, usually 3 of us sometimes we end up with a random 4th or just go out as 3. At the course we are playing at I usually shoot around an 85, which isn't as embarrassing as my two buddies who usually shoot around 100, total hacks. So if we bet on the game, holes, etc., I have to take a handicap, or they will just get frustrated because I am taking their money and they have no chance. It made me think about this game where handicapping is oddly reversed. The best players with the most time to practice expect to be better not only because they have time to develop their knowledge of the game and their tactics, but also want statistical advantage over inexperienced players. It's like me demanding my buddies take a handicap! How crazy is that? Well that is the champion system. If it is irrelevant to one's success why are people so passionate about hanging on to them? You'd think they'd want to level the playing field so others getting REKt wouldn't have so many excuses.
Call me stupid, but I really... don't see the point you're trying to make.
V16 Templar - Shelgon - DC
V16 Dragonknight - The Secutor - DC0 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭Lets show some numbers.
1600 CP = 533 each tree
230 CP = 76 each tree
now 99 points into a single passive will increase said passive to 25% bonus (not all but most)
the person with 76 in each tree cannot reach 99 in ANY, where the person with 533 can 3 passives with 99 points in each tree.
your telling me that's not an advantage?
50% increase healing received/healing done, 25% bonus damage , 25% magic resist ???
where i get...5% healing recieved...11% damage done... 4% magic resist
Like I said to @Ernest145, I do agree, it is an advantage, but again, advantage =/= 100% win. I know, I'm naive, but that's the way I see it, as long as there's a way to trump something with skill, I'm not going to complain about the other person using it. All I have to do is get better.Lets show some numbers.
1600 CP = 533 each tree
230 CP = 76 each tree
now 99 points into a single passive will increase said passive to 25% bonus (not all but most)
the person with 76 in each tree cannot reach 99 in ANY, where the person with 533 can 3 passives with 99 points in each tree.
your telling me that's not an advantage?
50% increase healing received/healing done, 25% bonus damage , 25% magic resist ???
where i get...5% healing recieved...11% damage done... 4% magic resist
Like I said to @Ernest145, I do agree, it is an advantage, but again, advantage =/= 100% win. I know, I'm naive, but that's the way I see it, as long as there's a way to trump something with skill, I'm not going to complain about the other person using it. All I have to do is get better.
also just to clarify
200 vs 1600 is ALOT ALOT WORSE
than 600 vs 1600
(since at 600 you can at least receive your defensive and offensive passives)
at 600 even I feel like I can completely own these people with 1600+0 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »As much as people want CP to be the reason they lost a fight, in my own experiences, it's almost never the case. I feel like you have to be behind A LOT in CP for someone to be physically impossible to trump with skill alone. I have 264 CP and I still wreck shop in PvP (I'm not saying im the best, take it however you want though). I do agree though that there are some people with way too many champ points, and yeah, it does make it unfair when you fight them, but you guys are making it seem like having 700+ champ points makes you God, l2p.
And before you start talking about people who are running 1500+ champ points, the number of people who have that many is so small it's not even worth taking into account.
@Araxleon is not talking about the average kind of players you find into Cyrodiil. He was reffering to the top skilled bracket he faces when he duels on a daily basis. Those players with great experience and knowledges of the game know what they're doing and at that point, if you don't have the same amount of champoint points or closeby, you don't stand any chance unless they run out of food/drink or their cat walks over their keyboard midfight.
Well, if you're going to fight top bracket players, clearly they have MORE experience and MORE knowledge than you, meaning they're better than you, and they won because they're better than you, don't blame it on the CP. Unless they are kicking 2000+ more CP than you are, and that is still not going to be impossible to trump with skill, you shouldn't blame it on the CP. In the end, the results of a duel lies in resource management, knowing when to block or dodge roll, and attacking when there's an opportunity.
In a duel, especially a duel, champion points are almost never the reason you lost, you lost because your opponent is better than you, so stop being a scrub lord and own up to your losses.
Just to reflect any straw man fallacies:
"What if 2 people of the same skill level dueled, obviously the person with more cp would win, no?"
If you find yourself typing that, just stop.
because of this bug I am open for about 1.5 secs... Do you know how hard some people can hit in that time frame with 1.6k+ CP? REALLY HARD. (this bug also applies to lots of knockbacks) thats sorta my open world example.
There are barely any people with 1.6k+ CP. Why does everyone overexaggerate CP?
I know atleast 5 people with 1.6k+ (which is why I said lol)
I should of said 1k'ish XD there is alot of people with 1k+Edited by Araxleon on September 28, 2015 11:20PM0
