Are people starting to give up on ZOS?

Callous2208 · September 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Pretty much this. Ever since B2P conversion this game is on the downhill slide and is only getting worse. If there was another decent MMO out I think the exodus would have been much more apparent. Hell, I'm even giving Wildstar another shot since it's F2P and I have nothing better to do and I hated Wildstar when it released (played one of the last beta weekends and quit playing before the weekend even ended it was so dull).

If WS doesn't keep me interested (and I doubt it will) I will probably just keep playing single player games for the foreseeable future. Mad Max, FO4, Witcher3 etc..The MMO genre is a complete wreck with this F2P/B2P garbage and there is really nothing on the horizon to change that.

The Jehovah's Witnesses also predicted in 1874 the Armageddon would start.

They later changed it to 1878, 1881, 1914, 1925 and 1974.

It didn't happen.

B2P was probably a golden move.

As a matter of fact the subscription market in general is shrinking. All the MMO games together had worldwide 30.6 million subscribers in 2010 and 23.4 million in 2014

ZOS could deny that trend or try something different.

They tried something different. We'll see if it will work out.

I'm not doubting that the trend is away from subs and B2P/F2P may be more profitable to companies but that doesn't make these games good. They could all be profitable Farmville clones but that doesn't mean they are good MMOs. I think ESO could have easily stuck with the sub model and done well but the consoles with their conflicting membership costs made it too complicated to stick with.

Callous2208 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Jamersonb16_ESO wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Complaints and rants are dying down compared to one or two weeks ago. And less than 800 people watched ESO Live yesterday while the number were easily over 1000 in the past few months. Is ESO way past the turning point that it can never recover again?

i think its been past it for a long time for alot of people but the lack of another game to go to has kept them here

So much this. The second a decent alternative is released ZOS are in real trouble. They've benefitted massively from a dreadful MMO market over the last year - particularly Archeage being such a disaster.

Pretty much this. Ever since B2P conversion this game is on the downhill slide and is only getting worse. If there was another decent MMO out I think the exodus would have been much more apparent. Hell, I'm even giving Wildstar another shot since it's F2P and I have nothing better to do and I hated Wildstar when it released (played one of the last beta weekends and quit playing before the weekend even ended it was so dull).

If WS doesn't keep me interested (and I doubt it will) I will probably just keep playing single player games for the foreseeable future. Mad Max, FO4, Witcher3 etc..The MMO genre is a complete wreck with this F2P/B2P garbage and there is really nothing on the horizon to change that.

Although a fair point, isn't this what everyone says about every game coming out. If I were a betting man I'd say you'll be making this statement again on the boards of that shiney new mmo when it releases.

Yep. Probably will..if there is even another MMO that comes out again that looks interesting enough to try. The irony is that ESO was the game I wasn't saying this about..until they completely reversed course and switched to B2P. Prior to that I was mostly on-board and quite pro-ESO. Some might have even called me a white knight as I was quite vocal in defending them on the forums even when they were doing questionable things. I was wrong.

I feel you on that. The game that did that to me not long ago was Gw2. Such high hopes, to be handed a gutted, meaningless dress up game that mocked its predecessor with its very existance.

EQBallzz · September 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Pretty much this. Ever since B2P conversion this game is on the downhill slide and is only getting worse. If there was another decent MMO out I think the exodus would have been much more apparent. Hell, I'm even giving Wildstar another shot since it's F2P and I have nothing better to do and I hated Wildstar when it released (played one of the last beta weekends and quit playing before the weekend even ended it was so dull).

If WS doesn't keep me interested (and I doubt it will) I will probably just keep playing single player games for the foreseeable future. Mad Max, FO4, Witcher3 etc..The MMO genre is a complete wreck with this F2P/B2P garbage and there is really nothing on the horizon to change that.

The Jehovah's Witnesses also predicted in 1874 the Armageddon would start.

They later changed it to 1878, 1881, 1914, 1925 and 1974.

It didn't happen.

B2P was probably a golden move.

As a matter of fact the subscription market in general is shrinking. All the MMO games together had worldwide 30.6 million subscribers in 2010 and 23.4 million in 2014

ZOS could deny that trend or try something different.

They tried something different. We'll see if it will work out.

I'm not doubting that the trend is away from subs and B2P/F2P may be more profitable to companies but that doesn't make these games good. They could all be profitable Farmville clones but that doesn't mean they are good MMOs. I think ESO could have easily stuck with the sub model and done well but the consoles with their conflicting membership costs made it too complicated to stick with.

Callous2208 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Jamersonb16_ESO wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Complaints and rants are dying down compared to one or two weeks ago. And less than 800 people watched ESO Live yesterday while the number were easily over 1000 in the past few months. Is ESO way past the turning point that it can never recover again?

i think its been past it for a long time for alot of people but the lack of another game to go to has kept them here

So much this. The second a decent alternative is released ZOS are in real trouble. They've benefitted massively from a dreadful MMO market over the last year - particularly Archeage being such a disaster.

Pretty much this. Ever since B2P conversion this game is on the downhill slide and is only getting worse. If there was another decent MMO out I think the exodus would have been much more apparent. Hell, I'm even giving Wildstar another shot since it's F2P and I have nothing better to do and I hated Wildstar when it released (played one of the last beta weekends and quit playing before the weekend even ended it was so dull).

If WS doesn't keep me interested (and I doubt it will) I will probably just keep playing single player games for the foreseeable future. Mad Max, FO4, Witcher3 etc..The MMO genre is a complete wreck with this F2P/B2P garbage and there is really nothing on the horizon to change that.

Although a fair point, isn't this what everyone says about every game coming out. If I were a betting man I'd say you'll be making this statement again on the boards of that shiney new mmo when it releases.

Yep. Probably will..if there is even another MMO that comes out again that looks interesting enough to try. The irony is that ESO was the game I wasn't saying this about..until they completely reversed course and switched to B2P. Prior to that I was mostly on-board and quite pro-ESO. Some might have even called me a white knight as I was quite vocal in defending them on the forums even when they were doing questionable things. I was wrong.

I feel you on that. The game that did that to me not long ago was Gw2. Such high hopes, to be handed a gutted, meaningless dress up game that mocked its predecessor with its very existance.

Yeah, I had similar experiences with GW2. I didn't play GW1 so I didn't get disappointed in that way but was disappointed nonetheless. The leveling experience was pretty good but once I got to "end game" (if you can call it that) I completely lost interest. My biggest problem with GW2 was the lack of true roles and no itemization. I know people hate the gear grind but I think the "cosmetic only" alternative is much worse. Especially when you have to endure those god awful zerg-fest dungeons in GW2 just to get a new outfit. Not for me.

PinoZino · September 2015

Dru1076 wrote: »

You're welcome, @PineZino. if you want me to not answer some more questions you already know the answers to, feel free to ask.

I have a good sense of smell, btw. But I appreciate you taking the time to talk down to me and all.

We all understand that things take time and there are priorities. Discovering your concern is not a priority is not going to make most people patiently wait for it to become higher on the list. It tends to make them go look for solutions through other avenues. It sure works well for me. There are great games out there, and more on the way...so until Zos make playing ESO more appealing to me as a casual (time poor) gamer, my faith in them has burnt out. But yeah, you know, that's just like...my opinion, man...

Whatever you do, there's always somebody who will complain.

I don't have a lot experience, as a player, with MMO's. I played only MUD in the Stone Ages and Ultima Online when the Romans lost Constantinople.

These games were not perfect either and had also flaws.

ESO is far superior and yet it's not 'perfect'. But it's pretty young too. Give it some time to get mature. IMHO the foundation is pretty solid.

Besides, also the players should use some creativity within the boundaries of the game. In an MMO you can do so much more as slaughtering and killing. I don't see this happen a lot, yet.

I see it in the Guilds too. In most Guilds no one is talking with each other. They just sit there for the trading. Why? A Guild is a fantastic place to arrange meetings for questing and fighting together. Playing with some friends or at least people you know a bit online is so more appealing.

In Ultima Online the Veterans taught the noobs how to play. Players were switching ideas, nice spots to loot or fight. Giving items to each other for free.

I’m the last to say ‘Everything was better in the past’, but come one, we the players can also improve the game a lot. And we don’t. Instead, we visit some forum to kick the bottoms of the dev team.

Zanfire · September 2015

PinoZino wrote: »

Zanfire wrote: »

Alot of game developers, especially in MMORPGs, tend to transform their games, making them more easy and/or approchable for both the old and new players. These kind of games tend to simplify, becomeing a more user friendly experience while time pass.

This is not the treatment ESO is enduring, so far.

End game content is almost only limited to rehearsed groups, leaving the more occasional gamer without much to do when he strike higher levels.

PvP is badly balanced, especially on the few vs few side.

There are not pvp free VR12-16 areas easily approchable in solo play

The game becomed clunky after the last patch, with many players experiencing frustrating loading times that kills exploration (and not a word on them by developers).

The trading system is nice and interesting, but not so friendly.

Console versione can't enjoy a text chat, and are forced to emply headset and, often a language different from their native one to easily communicate with others (ZOS probably think that everyone is/should be good with english).

Etc.

This can be a valid motive for people to move away from the game. I'm still into ESO mostly because, on PS4, I have no other MMORPG options, so I'll wait more, hoping for the game will develop better than it's doing.

Still, Fallout4 is close enough to make mi think about renewing my monthly subscription.

Making something user-friendly doesn't mean you're simplifying it. That’s a myth which is still alive in the wild. Some call it dumbing down the user.

In fact, it can happen that you make the interface more complex and more user-friendly at the same time.

User-friendly means, you make the UI usable the best you can, for a specific audience, with specific tasks, with specific tools in a specific environment. Context of use is important.

There's a link with the experience of the user and the complexity of the UI. In general you can serve experienced players a more complex UI. But even that complex UI can be better usable.

I'm not a fan of Voice Chat, but it's possible that most people on Console wouldn't use Text Chat. You could say 'I'm sure they would', but you really don't. Neither do I.

I can only hope that they carried out several user tests and discovered that Console players don't use Text Chat when Voice Chat exists.

You are not 'thé user', you are 'a user'. But more people think 'I have a problem with this, so is everyone'. It's just another argument why you never let the users decide how the UI should look like.

I'm not speaking about the UI, but about the game in general. ESO is not a game that "invites" you to play it, unless some conditions are met, especially when you hit the end-game.

About the text-chat, well, it has been long discussed in other threads, and, for the most part, forum-user population express itself as a majority demanding for it. So, it is not a "I user" need, just something many people seems to hope for.

FireCowCommando · September 2015

There are a lot of conflicting ideas here, i am curious if the players participating in this discussion would be willing to contribute their feelings on this update in a poll.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/220555/rate-your-pvp-experience-ic-update/p1

SmalltalkJava · September 2015

The only thing I dislike about eso is the limited 5 slot hotbar. Its too limited and ruins adaptability.

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

The only thing I dislike about eso is the limited 5 slot hotbar. Its too limited and ruins adaptability.

It's a design choice that forces players to make concessions. It also adapts well to support controllers. The only reason you feel limited is because the available skills lack diversity. Skills like Shuffle, Rally/Vigor, Healing Ward, etc. are the problem because there are no good alternatives.

Gidorick · September 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

The only thing I dislike about eso is the limited 5 slot hotbar. Its too limited and ruins adaptability.

It's a design choice that forces players to make concessions. It also adapts well to support controllers. The only reason you feel limited is because the available skills lack diversity. Skills like Shuffle, Rally/Vigor, Healing Ward, etc. are the problem because there are no good alternatives.

It also means have a bunch of skill points I'll probably never use...

Marrtha · September 2015

Look at any other MMO. People are always complaining and they are toxic 90% of the time. Just look at WoW. Nobody is happy with it anymore. Everyone complains about it, saying it's dead, saying it sucks. This is the Internet, where people take their frustrations out on completely irrelevant things. After reading nothing but a bunch of *** about almost every MMO I gave a shot, I wonder why they are still around at all. Does anyone play games anymore? Do they want to play games? As in actual play? What is it that they all want? The truth is the whole concept got old. I struggle sometimes too, and lose interest fast because 'been there, done that', but hell, there are still small enjoyable things out there, in any game.

I think ESO is great. And I certainly hope it won't die.

Van_0S · September 2015

Marrtha wrote: »

Look at any other MMO. People are always complaining and they are toxic 90% of the time. Just look at WoW. Nobody is happy with it anymore. Everyone complains about it, saying it's dead, saying it sucks. This is the Internet, where people take their frustrations out on completely irrelevant things. After reading nothing but a bunch of *** about almost every MMO I gave a shot, I wonder why they are still around at all. Does anyone play games anymore? Do they want to play games? As in actual play? What is it that they all want? The truth is the whole concept got old. I struggle sometimes too, and lose interest fast because 'been there, done that', but hell, there are still small enjoyable things out there, in any game.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFVqrF-6U7ig56hdNHYN95tTTqaIMVR5Aph1Yee-FAOvTe07R6PUqh4-YP

QuebraRegra · September 2015

I did.

waiting for ZOS to announce last patch was "bad dream".

Cadbury · September 2015

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Totally off-topic. I just want to say I'm sorry for...uh...accidentally attacking you after I let you out of that cage.

You didn't have to roll off the tower, though -_-

BalticBlues · September 2015

Marrtha wrote: »

Look at any other MMO. People are always complaining and they are toxic 90% of the time. Just look at WoW. Nobody is happy with it anymore. Everyone complains about it, saying it's dead, saying it sucks.

People LOVED ESO with patch 1.6.
The version released for consoles was GREAT.
Not perfect, but still GREAT.

Then comes IC and patch 1.7 and introduces "features" as:
- game breaking bugs on console
... non working guild stores
... buggy guild banks
... invisible beams, quests and bosses with beams impossible to solve
- IC with
... only zergs and pure grinding
... flyspeck grinding so that people buy motifs in crown store
- overall balance put upside down
... old gear devaluated
... lower level chars have much lower values, some PVE dungeons now are impossible
... shield breaker set undermines core gaming rules
- trials worthless because of no upscaling
- loading screens unlimited
- and many more things

1.7 ruined large parts of the game.
Partly because of missing QA (has there been any on consoles?),
partly because of design decisions devaluating former content.

For many people, ESO is the most important thing in their free time.
They still LOVE the game from 1.6 - but they HATE many things that happened with 1.7.
With 1.7, ESO became an unhappy love affair. This is why the forums show such reaction.

newtinmpls · September 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

I hate to be the one to tell you this but doctors base their prognoses on opinions.

Sounds like you aren't in the health care industry or you would be a lot more familar with how it works. let me offer three words that will send chills down the spine of any med or nursing student: Evidence Based Practice.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

That's why you can go to several different doctors and have different opinions about what you should do. Certainly not all opinions are equal in value but to ignore supported advice just because you feel the source is lacking says more about the person ignoring the information than the person giving it.

Has to do with available local resources (including insurance or the lack thereof), the context or situation of that exact patient (sometimes treatments that are effective in a 30 year old are dangerous for a 65 year old).

ZoS is unfortunate in that over time, the folks who do customer service have - between possibly getting misinformed about what's possible/coming and other "what we know" vs "what we are allowed to tell you" issues, have come to be perceived as ... well not as reliable sources. This hurts ZoS as a gaming company.

For instance I personally will stick with ESO, but I hope and pray that the next ES MMORPG gets handled by some other company - preferabley with a LOT of employees and developers who play ES games.

firstdecan · September 2015

Let's face it. The real reason people are giving up on ESO is because they took our boob windows. No one cared enough about this balance stuff and grind stuff until our fashion sensibilities were assaulted.

Wycks · September 2015

Ill give them another month to figure out the disaster IC is, but there might not be anyone left, everyone is going to one server in cyrodil because the other campaigns are dead zones, you usually see this effect after years of releases and general loss of interest, in ZOS's case they loose people when they actually release content because its so poorly thought out.

It's a real shame because the potential is there, but upper management is lost and they have a strange sense of confidence.

Lava_Croft · September 2015

bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »

Ill give them another month to figure out the disaster IC is, but there might not be anyone left, everyone is going to one server in cyrodil because the other campaigns are dead zones, you usually see this effect after years of releases and general loss of interest, in ZOS's case they loose people when they actually release content because its so poorly thought out.

It's a real shame because the potential is there, but upper management is lost.

This has been the main theme ever since beta.

BlackEar · September 2015

lifefrombelowb14_ESO wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

A small minority? So do you think the majority of people that have tried ESO think its great?

Dude,

Yes, the majority is satisfied.

Positive: 177
Neutral: 23
Negative: 53

Source:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited

It's interesting you bring up metacritic. I hadn't really thought to look there really. What's interesting is some of the review dates....also that its for a game that's only existed since June 9th 2015.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-online

Positive: 383 out of 864
Mixed: 144 out of 864
Negative: 337

whats interesting still is if you click to write a review another set of numbers pops up:

Positive: 1,050 out of 2338
Mixed: 360 out of 2338
Negative: 928

Sort of interesting it has 5.7 before they got to create a whole different entry for pretty much nothing more than an expansion and suddenly its a 7.8

Depending on who you ask the game changed A LOT which brought people back in and they were overwhelmingly positive.

BlackEar · September 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

Marrtha wrote: »

Look at any other MMO. People are always complaining and they are toxic 90% of the time. Just look at WoW. Nobody is happy with it anymore. Everyone complains about it, saying it's dead, saying it sucks.

People LOVED ESO with patch 1.6.
The version released for consoles was GREAT.
Not perfect, but still GREAT.

Then comes IC and patch 1.7 and introduces "features" as:
- game breaking bugs on console
... non working guild stores
... buggy guild banks
... invisible beams, quests and bosses with beams impossible to solve
- IC with
... only zergs and pure grinding
... flyspeck grinding so that people buy motifs in crown store
- overall balance put upside down
... old gear devaluated
... lower level chars have much lower values, some PVE dungeons now are impossible
... shield breaker set undermines core gaming rules
- trials worthless because of no upscaling
- loading screens unlimited
- and many more things

1.7 ruined large parts of the game.
Partly because of missing QA (has there been any on consoles?),
partly because of design decisions devaluating former content.

For many people, ESO is the most important thing in their free time.
They still LOVE the game from 1.6 - but they HATE many things that happened with 1.7.
With 1.7, ESO became an unhappy love affair. This is why the forums show such reaction.

"People" - source on this?
I found 1.6. stale, bland and boring.

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

I hate to be the one to tell you this but doctors base their prognoses on opinions.

Sounds like you aren't in the health care industry or you would be a lot more familar with how it works. let me offer three words that will send chills down the spine of any med or nursing student: Evidence Based Practice.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

That's why you can go to several different doctors and have different opinions about what you should do. Certainly not all opinions are equal in value but to ignore supported advice just because you feel the source is lacking says more about the person ignoring the information than the person giving it.

Has to do with available local resources (including insurance or the lack thereof), the context or situation of that exact patient (sometimes treatments that are effective in a 30 year old are dangerous for a 65 year old).

ZoS is unfortunate in that over time, the folks who do customer service have - between possibly getting misinformed about what's possible/coming and other "what we know" vs "what we are allowed to tell you" issues, have come to be perceived as ... well not as reliable sources. This hurts ZoS as a gaming company.

For instance I personally will stick with ESO, but I hope and pray that the next ES MMORPG gets handled by some other company - preferabley with a LOT of employees and developers who play ES games.

That's quite an assumption to open with beause that it exactly how it works. Doctors review the available evidence and literally guess about the best course of action based on what they understand, which is almost always incomplete. They rarely know drug or familial histories and must defer to what the patient tells them about allergies and current prescriptions. If the patient is in the system they do have some reference material to use but that also assumes that the history is accurate and properly updated, and since there are no unverisal medical systems (each major healthcare group has their own) the information is incomplete. They can run various tests to check for things but again this is based on the opinion of the doctor. Add to that genetics and drug interactions and a standard practice may cover 80% of the population. Factor in trauma events and almost none of this information is available in time; they don't even have time to check insurance if they even know the patient's name. But you're right, I don't understand how the healthcare profession operates and why malpractice insurance is so high as a result.

Regarding ZOS, their lack of communication is a real hindrance as the community is left to guess what they value, where the game is headed, and why game-breaking bugs still aren't fixed yet. I agree that the customer service is a likely scapegoat but they are just using what little information they have available. ZOS' management continues to be the driving force that is causing most of these issues. So far I would compare ESO to Defiance, and that's not a good thing. Split communities, fractured support, lack of basic features (PC has add-ons at least), no clear direction for the game, and an utter lack of communication.

Artheiron · September 2015

I gave up but since I came back here to write this, that shows that I didn't fully gave up. But game isn't on my hard disk and not writing here actively anymore. Checking in time to time to read news about orsinium. Best of luck.

PinoZino · September 2015

Zanfire wrote: »

I'm not speaking about the UI, but about the game in general. ESO is not a game that "invites" you to play it, unless some conditions are met, especially when you hit the end-game.

About the text-chat, well, it has been long discussed in other threads, and, for the most part, forum-user population express itself as a majority demanding for it. So, it is not a "I user" need, just something many people seems to hope for.

UX isn't a democracy. I had several situations in the past were 100% of the users wanted something and we didn't listen.

And we were right. What users say isn't important, it's about what they do.

If few Console players actually use a keyboard then the same players can moan what they want.

If the usability was better, the game would invite you more to play. Doesn't mean the overall usability is bad, it is rather good, but it certainly can improve.

PinoZino · September 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Opinions are not worthless and they do not have to be emotional (personal is a result of experience and everyone has natural biases). Take Newton and his opinion of why things fell at a constant rate. Most science is based on a personal opinion of an observation which is not yet proven. These opinions have value because they are the first step in uncovering a new way of thinking so the facts are not yet developed. Fringe science is an entire field that deals with unorthodox concepts that are based on opinions and personal experince/observations. Often fringe science is progressed by people outside of the field in question as they are not limited by a developed method of thinking and are open to things that would be considered exceptions and therefore discarded.

Anyway, I am not discounting UX or its value, but in a game where code is programmed by humans and errors exist in random ways due to human error, code interaction, overwritten data from updates, etc. to simply say that opinions on what is happening are worthless discounts the impossible since no one really knows what can happen because there are far too many variables involved. Sometimes you cannot quantify why a thing happens, nor can you predict the best course of action for an idea that hasn't been developed yet. These opinions on issues come from everywhere, especially from people outside of the gaming industry. They have value even if you do not know how to measure them, especially if enough users are reporting the same issue. Could this be confirmation bias? Certainly, but it could also be a trend in data that leads to a much larger issue.

In closing, let's just be honest that UX is not the best solution for a game that is struglling to continue. While many of the concepts such as prioritization may be similar to UX in some cases worrying about what type of text interface to add isn't as important as just adding a basic text box for consoles. You can measure everything you want about the best button to add but at the end of the day sometimes making it bigger is the simplest solution. Do you really think ZOS is in a position to evaluate the button properly?

Newton was not a noob from Barcelona who knew nothing about his subject(s). He was a schooled academician, studied at Cambridge, and offered his life to study a lot of things.

It's not that Newton was some uber noob who physically could walk into the world and declared himself as a physicist. That's more the UX noobs their play: they play a game and declare themselves as UX experts.

Sure Newton observed things, later he backed it up with mathematic evidence. His approach isn't that weird anyway. His reference framework was rather small. For many things he was a pioneer.

It isn't working like that in the world of UX. I have a usability study from the USAF in my library. It's dealing the usability of cockpits in fighter aircrafts. About 90% could be used in modern software and games. It's dated 1962.

And since that time countless other studies are carried out. Our reference framework is much bigger than the one of Newton.

Fringe science isn't science. It's a kind of club with many trials and even more errors. By coincidence they achieved in a few things. The list of failures is 1000 times longer. It's cost/efficient a ridiculous approach.

If you would use this approach in the software development business, you would go broke before release. Really.

The users don't care about the code and its complexity. For them the UI is the software. And the usability determines a lot if they like it or not a lot.

No, the simplest solution isn't making the button bigger. That's dev talk. "Hey, it's functionally working", but they don't care that real humans have to use it.

Yes, ZOS is in the position to evaluate the button properly. Countless companies with fewer resources, less manpower and less budget can manage that button. I see no reason why ZOS couldn't do the same.

PinoZino · September 2015

*delete*

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2015

PinoZino wrote: »

*delete*

First time I have agreed with you so far.

firstdecan · September 2015

PinoZino wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Opinions are not worthless and they do not have to be emotional (personal is a result of experience and everyone has natural biases). Take Newton and his opinion of why things fell at a constant rate. Most science is based on a personal opinion of an observation which is not yet proven. These opinions have value because they are the first step in uncovering a new way of thinking so the facts are not yet developed. Fringe science is an entire field that deals with unorthodox concepts that are based on opinions and personal experince/observations. Often fringe science is progressed by people outside of the field in question as they are not limited by a developed method of thinking and are open to things that would be considered exceptions and therefore discarded.

Anyway, I am not discounting UX or its value, but in a game where code is programmed by humans and errors exist in random ways due to human error, code interaction, overwritten data from updates, etc. to simply say that opinions on what is happening are worthless discounts the impossible since no one really knows what can happen because there are far too many variables involved. Sometimes you cannot quantify why a thing happens, nor can you predict the best course of action for an idea that hasn't been developed yet. These opinions on issues come from everywhere, especially from people outside of the gaming industry. They have value even if you do not know how to measure them, especially if enough users are reporting the same issue. Could this be confirmation bias? Certainly, but it could also be a trend in data that leads to a much larger issue.

In closing, let's just be honest that UX is not the best solution for a game that is struglling to continue. While many of the concepts such as prioritization may be similar to UX in some cases worrying about what type of text interface to add isn't as important as just adding a basic text box for consoles. You can measure everything you want about the best button to add but at the end of the day sometimes making it bigger is the simplest solution. Do you really think ZOS is in a position to evaluate the button properly?

Newton was not a noob from Barcelona who knew nothing about his subject(s). He was a schooled academician, studied at Cambridge, and offered his life to study a lot of things.

It's not that Newton was some uber noob who physically could walk into the world and declared himself as a physicist. That's more the UX noobs their play: they play a game and declare themselves as UX experts.

Sure Newton observed things, later he backed it up with mathematic evidence. His approach isn't that weird anyway. His reference framework was rather small. For many things he was a pioneer.

It isn't working like that in the world of UX. I have a usability study from the USAF in my library. It's dealing the usability of cockpits in fighter aircrafts. About 90% could be used in modern software and games. It's dated 1962.

And since that time countless other studies are carried out. Our reference framework is much bigger than the one of Newton.

Fringe science isn't science. It's a kind of club with many trials and even more errors. By coincidence they achieved in a few things. The list of failures is 1000 times longer. It's cost/efficient a ridiculous approach.

If you would use this approach in the software development business, you would go broke before release. Really.

The users don't care about the code and its complexity. For them the UI is the software. And the usability determines a lot if they like it or not a lot.

No, the simplest solution isn't making the button bigger. That's dev talk. "Hey, it's functionally working", but they don't care that real humans have to use it.

Yes, ZOS is in the position to evaluate the button properly. Countless companies with fewer resources, less manpower and less budget can manage that button. I see no reason why ZOS couldn't do the same.

So, the apparent point of all these posts is that we should give up on ZoS, because as consumers we don't know what we really want, have no idea what we believe is fair, and we should just blindly hand money over to a bunch of video game developers who probably start their morning scrum off by saying "dude, light this for me."

Newsflash: Your UX experience doesn't apply here. Your training is how to get people to optimally use a tool. This is an entertainment experience, and most of what people are commenting is what they like and do not like about that entertainment experience. If you want to debate the finer points of WASD, your experience applies. When the topic of conversation is how ZoS has treated the community and whether or not said community feels they are getting value for their entertainment dollar, UX does not apply.

Newsflash2: You are also far from the only person in these forums, playing this game, who has a technical background. I'm sure your background provides insight many others do not have, and if that is the case, please share it constructively. Your only contribution has been to tell people to shut their mouths with nothing more than vague claims from your area of expertise. This is not a positive conversation, and I expect that if the conversation does not move in a more constructive direction that ZoS will lock the thread.

Brightxdawn · September 2015

GIVE ME YOUR GOLD!

Osteos · September 2015

Not me. Been here since beta and still having fun

I have given up on getting anything besides Axes of Willpower from the vault chest though

PinoZino · September 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

So, the apparent point of all these posts is that we should give up on ZoS, because as consumers we don't know what we really want, have no idea what we believe is fair, and we should just blindly hand money over to a bunch of video game developers who probably start their morning scrum off by saying "dude, light this for me."

Newsflash: Your UX experience doesn't apply here. Your training is how to get people to optimally use a tool. This is an entertainment experience, and most of what people are commenting is what they like and do not like about that entertainment experience. If you want to debate the finer points of WASD, your experience applies. When the topic of conversation is how ZoS has treated the community and whether or not said community feels they are getting value for their entertainment dollar, UX does not apply.

Newsflash2: You are also far from the only person in these forums, playing this game, who has a technical background. I'm sure your background provides insight many others do not have, and if that is the case, please share it constructively. Your only contribution has been to tell people to shut their mouths with nothing more than vague claims from your area of expertise. This is not a positive conversation, and I expect that if the conversation does not move in a more constructive direction that ZoS will lock the thread.

No, you shouldn't give up ZOS. Report bugs but stop moaning about solutions. Most of the players their solutions are worth nothing.

A game does have an interface too. In fact, the interface is very similar to common software. The same rules are valid and the most important one for sure: don't listen to users, but watch them playing.

I'm pretty sure that other people with my background would say the same.

I like your blackmail. If I don't move in your direction, ZOS will close the thread. Ok. lol

SeptimusDova · September 2015

Khajiit's guild and This one stopped expecting any form of competency and or candor from ZOS. Some since 1.0.3 and most since 1.5. 1.7 was the final exodus. They are not coming back. If this one is really bored and have absolutely nothing left to do. Wash cars, give Cat a bath. Chase the dog. Chores for the wife. then khajiit will log on and look at the empty guild roster. Other than that nothing left to do. End game is the forums. And this ones forum "Molag Bal" is the Mods. Dodging them and antagonizing them with pointed barbs working on record bans and suspensions. That IS END GAME !!!!

And no Pinochet you cannot have Khajiit's stuff

you want stuff go earn it they way everyone else did. Well some duped stuff and others bought stuff. UX and a $1.35 will get you a cup of coffee.

Yes many have given up on ZOS

Some gave up after P2P(Sub) went B2P

Some gave up because of the CP

Some gave up because of the VR System

Some gave up from 1.6

Some gave up from 1.7

Some gave up from IC

Some even gave up from the Cadwells/Merida quests

The reasons they gave up only has to matter to them. They felt that it was not worth their time and or money so they left. Some still post here Some do not.They paid for the game so they have a say.