Sandmanninja wrote: »

amatic wrote: »

I think ic is great..really loving it.
Just chill out carebear, every future dlc will be made especially for softies like you.

See?! THAT is the attitude we want NOTHING to do with. I really hate PvP and this damn DLC. It has almost completely ruined me towards ESO.

See. A good example I stopped playing, just loitering, waiting for ZOS repentance...

Hamfast wrote: »

I have to say there is only one thing about the IC DLC that I don't like... it has crafting materials and motifs that I will not be getting... such is life...

From the first day we who tend to Solo PvE had 3 worlds to explore, one zone we would avoid... As I also hung out on the forums, I listened to the PVP players complain about lag, bugs, zergs, balance and a myriad of other issues. I read the posts from people who liked to group complaining about the lousy (if any) grouping tools and few if any places that grouping was even needed. the first big thing added was Craglorn, a zone meant for groups, this second one is one meant for PvP players, and I am ok with both, even if I have never seen an item with the nirnwhatever trait, and I will not likely see the new high level crafting materials and motifs (even if I can use it).

I still enjoy myself, I still have fun, I still avoid Cyrodiil like the plague... other then the few days I snuck around and got all but 4 of the stones in the zone, missing 2 or 3 in Craglorn, all done solo.

Orsinium will be here sooner or later, PvPers had to wait a year for the IC, group players had to wait months for Craglorn, I can see no reason why we solo PvE players can't wait a tad bit longer.

This is me in every area except one, I MUST attempt every area....it's in my OCD lol...and over time I've come to love Cyro.
Particuarly since IC dropped, it's so very empty (except Azzura of course, but that's hardcore Pvp central) that you can pretty much have the run of the place.
Cyro I did totally in an AD buff state, & I'm Pact, but after weeks & weeks I got a visitor campaign that wasn't AD buffed (but was DC buffed, just my luck lol), and got the last two skyshards that way. (I imagine that what you called stones?)
Worth your effort, fellow achievement based Pve solo guy.

Craglorn I got the shards again, but did have a couple of delves I had to just sneak & occasionally soul gem as I couldn't kill the bosses/mobs...but medium armour & cloak got me every shard, just not the delve bosses or quests necessarily.

As you say, so much Pve content, & more coming later this year...but some we have to share with others...a little.

I wonder how many of the people who are now whining about the PvE/PvP mix ALSO complained about the restricted access rules that were originally planned by ZOS. Remember ? Factions were supposed to fulfill certain keep conditions to be able to enter IC. That would concretely make IC a pure PvE zone whenever other factions would not fulfill said conditions. That would also have given more meaning to overland Cyrodiil PvP.

Guess what ? ZOS listened and gave up on this restricted access plan.
And guess what ? Now people whine that overland Cyro is deserted and meaningless, and that IC is a mix of PvP and PvE.

Be careful what you ask for.

Tandor wrote: »

I agree that PvE and PvP don't mix and should be kept separate. I hope from that point of view that we shall never get saddled with PvP in open world PvE areas as was proposed initially with the Justice System. That is a classic example of where it would be a disaster to mix the two, and hopefully the decision has been taken to stick to PvE penalties for PvE crimes in PvE areas.

I hope they carry on with their plans for the Justice System ! I don't see why anyone would be against it, since it will be completely optional : no bounty => no PvP. Simple as that.

But a lot of people (that includes me) are very happy about the PvPvE orientation of ESO, too.

Tandor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I agree that PvE and PvP don't mix and should be kept separate. I hope from that point of view that we shall never get saddled with PvP in open world PvE areas as was proposed initially with the Justice System. That is a classic example of where it would be a disaster to mix the two, and hopefully the decision has been taken to stick to PvE penalties for PvE crimes in PvE areas.

I hope they carry on with their plans for the Justice System ! I don't see why anyone would be against it, since it will be completely optional : no bounty => no PvP. Simple as that.

It's optional only in the sense that you can either take full part in the Justice System and incur PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE areas or you can choose to take a limited part in it so as not to have a level of bounty that attracts PvP penalties. That's not really an effective choice for those who want to do the full PvE content in PvE areas without being forced into PvP, and it's why a lot of people are against introducing PvP outside of PvP areas.

The problem with mixing PVE and PVP in the Imperial City is that they did it wrong. The Tel Var stones are PVE rewards, and the only PVP objective worth speaking of, which makes the primary goal for PVP players something that is sourced from PVE. When PVE players inevitably enter this PVP zone, they instantly become targets. That is the first mistake. The second mistake is making nothing else for PVP players to do. There need to be PVP objectives in the Imperial City besides killing players for Tel Var stones.

lordrichter wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I agree that PvE and PvP don't mix and should be kept separate. I hope from that point of view that we shall never get saddled with PvP in open world PvE areas as was proposed initially with the Justice System. That is a classic example of where it would be a disaster to mix the two, and hopefully the decision has been taken to stick to PvE penalties for PvE crimes in PvE areas.

I hope they carry on with their plans for the Justice System ! I don't see why anyone would be against it, since it will be completely optional : no bounty => no PvP. Simple as that.

It's optional only in the sense that you can either take full part in the Justice System and incur PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE areas or you can choose to take a limited part in it so as not to have a level of bounty that attracts PvP penalties. That's not really an effective choice for those who want to do the full PvE content in PvE areas without being forced into PvP, and it's why a lot of people are against introducing PvP outside of PvP areas.

The problem with mixing PVE and PVP in the Imperial City is that they did it wrong. The Tel Var stones are PVE rewards, and the only PVP objective worth speaking of, which makes the primary goal for PVP players something that is sourced from PVE. When PVE players inevitably enter this PVP zone, they instantly become targets. That is the first mistake. The second mistake is making nothing else for PVP players to do. There need to be PVP objectives in the Imperial City besides killing players for Tel Var stones.

This ^^^

[quote="kaianvestra_ESO;2270171"]It's not that I was ignoring it, it's that I couldn't find the explanation in the paragraphs layered with contradictions, passive aggression, and dogmatism. Not that I really care, my main concern and argument always has been the story, and going off on tangents with you is only making me lose sight of that.

Guy above me makes a good point, although I still think the biggest blunder was locking such a huge piece of story behind pvp. It is the Imperial City for christs sake, from the trailer, the major plot they used to bring people to their game and what we've been fighting for in all the story. Why would anyone NOT want to play that? It was intended for pvp, great. At least should have made experiencing/completing the questline less of a stressful hassle to the point where pve players feel they need to group in mass in order to complete it.

If people can't agree that pve players zerging everything cuz they feel that they must is a problem, then I really don't know what else I can say. You can't force a person to change how they want to play the game, all you can do is weave the game to try and guide players a certain way which is why most other games have multiple servers with different settings. ZOS has one server to work with so trying to find a way to make PvPvE work is their daunting challenge. IC was an attempt that I feel fell short, unfortunately.

What I can say for certain, if there's going to be only one server that forces pve and pvp players together, such a huge piece of story cannot be gated behind pvp or else it will continue creating these problems. Telling me I don't have to play it is an overused argument and is complete stupidity which fails to recognize the other side of the playerbase. Other MMOs offer PvE servers where players can experience the full game and story without having to deal with PvP. Telling a PvE player not to play story absolutely fails to see the problem; story is the core of what many PvE people play a game for, at least in my case.

Believe me, I am not trying to rob PvP players of their updates, I like to pvp too, so please don't miss my points.

When it gets down to it, none of us can really say what the problem was or what it should have been. PvPvE isn't a simple concept, all we can do is speculate.[/quote]



Talk about passive aggressive.

There was nothing whatsoever contradictory in repeatedly pointing out in every post that the intent for the zone was well known long ago, published in multiple statements by ZoS and that ignoring that intent is a big part of the problem.

If you want to keep insisting that the purpose of the zone is something that can be ignored, feel free of course. I can see how that's working out for you.

As is, complaining now that "a huge piece of story cannot be gated behind pvp" when much of the reverse has been the case in this game since inception is not only self serving but hypocritical of any PvE player in this game, not to mention it again ignores facts: PvP players have done the reverse since the game begun. They too have complained, repeatedly, but they did not get the changes they sought. If they want PvE gear, shards, mats, and rewards, they HAD to go through the PvE zones to get them.

Why should this be any different?

Stooping to name calling in your notion that "Telling me I don't have to play it is an overused argument and is complete stupidity which fails to recognize the other side of the playerbase," works both ways. There were devs on these very forums that stated the exact same thing shortly before IC went live. I would say that is the best and biggest endorsement you can get on clarity they have ever made.

IMO Orsinium and the Imperial City should have been released at the same time.

PvE is the core of any game like ESO. Play league of legends or call of duty.

Yes, PvP needs a better reward system. Again totally off on a tangent but whatever.

I've repeatedly admit PvPers need updates but I guess you'll read what you read. Again, tangent from my point.

I acknowledge the zone was tailored for pvp, but then you said it wasn't, so I mean ok you can drag it out if you want but I won't pursue it.

Nothing you said makes anything I said less of an issue. You sure like to think people ignore a lot of things regardless of what they say. I know pvpers have it rough, but that doesn't make my issue any less of an issue? Momma ever teach you 2 wrongs don't make a right? Pvpers talk when they're not happy, and that's ok, but when pve peeps aren't happy with something they should roll over? I'm not vocalizing in defense of pvp because I don't pvp as much and that's not what I came here to do, doesn't mean I think they deserve any less attention than us. I don't know why you're so convinced I want IC to be a PvE zone when I sincerely believe the most I've asked for was for story to be more accessible to everyone. A reasonable request, but hey, I'm sure you'll read that and still find something to point out that you think I'm ignoring(although I've been acknowledging everything in this thread), kinda like how you've been ignoring the other side's perspective cuz you're so sure we don't deserve a perspective. Sure I've talked about IC being more balanced, but that was only because I believed the idea would support making story more accessible, which is really the only thing I care about in this entire mess.

Story is an everyone's thing. Not fair to make it for one group of people, pve or pvp. Admittedly I've previously said that it was for us PvE guys, but I changed my mind after some thought.

Unfortunately ESO is tailored in a way where that isn't possible. Splitting it into pve and pvp servers can't happen cuz you can't be in enemy zones unless you're in veteran levels, which wouldn't be ok. Vets vs lowbies. Not to mention the technical hurdle. So a healthy balance needs to be found with what we got, I've got no idea how. PvE is the core of any game that wants to tell a story, so if you like story well guess what champ you're going to need to pve cuz there's really no alternative. Saying story is locked behind pve is so completely different than saying story is locked behind pvp. PvE players aren't the ones that hand crafted the game so chill out on em bruh.

UNLESS we're talking about trials, in which case I agree. Not even PvE people are all able to experience trials, that's a whole different ballpark. Both pve and pvp suffer from story being locked behind trials.

It would actually be kind of neat if craglorn and IC had instanced pve and pvp versions, so that everyone could be happy, and if later orsinium also had a pvp instanced version. But hey I mean I'm sure my opinion will get cut up into something that has no value so whatever.

IC might have been pretty cool if it turned out how it was intended. I've played pvp servers on many different MMOs and getting ganked every once in a while in questing areas you'd get gut a rush if you won or pissed if they were successful, but you'd just go back. But there's literally hordes of enemies all grouped up running around the city just making it unfun and unplayable at times. The worst part is, everyone can stealth. Stealth plagues every MMO, and it's one thing when only a couple classes can do it, but is it hell on earth when suddenly 15 people jump out of no where on you. At least a counter to it is accessible to everyone, so there's that.

I realize I'm coming off as aggressive, sorry. I'm low on patience, especially when it feels like my opinion is being devalued and picked away at because of X Y and Z circumstances I had nothing to do with and having words taken out of my mouth. Feels like I'm reaching the point where I'm just repeatedly saying the same thing different ways so I'm going to try my best to drop it, I've more than said my piece, lol.

Anyways, I'm probably letting my sub drop till orsinium comes out, hopefully I can finish the quest by then. The whole zerg or be zerged mentality got boring pretty quick, hopefully orsinium turns out as intended.

Well, I was enjoying the DLC, farming stuff in the first section of the Daggerfall sewers, but an AD zerg is now rolling through, ~30 people strong, killing everything they find so uhhh, guess I am done with ESO for tonight since I can't even get past 20 TV stones without getting steam rolled. GG.

That was short lived, was only having fun for about a half hour or so.

Orsinium can't come fast enough, the more I play IC and have to deal with pointless PvP nonsense the more I do not want to play.

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

Really, ok, go solo the boss in the middle of temple district and tell me how it goes.

And I sat there for a good hour in stealth waiting for a group to piggyback on as you say, and the only group of people that seemed remotely interested in doing it wasn't even my faction. No one talking or reading or cares for zone chat. So unless you got a good handful of active friends ready to coddle your balls, guess you just gotta get lucky and get a tag on it before getting brutally murdered.

maybe start playing with other people then? You can have 5 guilds, make one of them a pvp guild or something.

Lastly, if you're problems are as so, I will assume you're in guilds that don't do anything, don't group up for IC sewer runs/content. So, easy solution..join a guild that does instead of sitting around whining on the forums.

You're welcome.

Dogmatism at its finest.

The reason I said this was because you don't know me. You don't know how I think, my choices, how I play and enjoy the game, what I understand or realize, what I know and researched, what I believe to be an issue, my ideas, my suggestions, or my intentions when I type. Yet you kept making assumptions about me, taking words out of my mouth, and then asserting it on me as truth and it was beginning to tick me off. Humble yourself up homie, you know nothing jon snow.