Please dont mix it again

SirDopey

Tandor wrote: »

In the case of IC, however, neither the PvEers nor the PvPers seem too happy with the way the PvE and PvP are mixed together which is something ZOS might well want to take into consideration in the future.

I don't think "Neither" is an accurate statement, maybe "neither SOME PvPers arn't too happy" would be more accurate. Our guild is small (60 members), but we haven't had a single person complaining about the content, sure we have a couple of PvEers in the guild that wait for some of us PvPers to be on before coming in but as far as the PVPers go we're all pretty happy with IC

kaianvestra_ESO

There's a reason a huge portion of playerbase has never completed any named trial, to me that says gated story. They are highly unforgiving to the average player. It's not about the choices I've made, there you go taking "facts" that you believe to be true and asserting it as undeniable truth. Have you considered that a person may believe a game can use work in certain areas and still find the game fun in others? Oh man.

kaianvestra_ESO

The only reason I'm bothering to waste my time with you on here is because I like the game and would like to see it improve and be the best it can be, to the widest variety of players.

I understand that they'll be having 2 difficulties for the new orsinium trial. That'll open up accessibility to a larger group of players. Yay.

This is seriously such an insignificant issue right now compared to IC lol, like it's probably not even worth discussing honestly the amount of story in trials are so minimal and they're already working on it so...

Soulshine

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

There's a reason a huge portion of playerbase has never completed any named trial, to me that says gated story. They are highly unforgiving to the average player. It's not about the choices I've made, there you go taking "facts" that you believe to be true and asserting it as undeniable truth. Have you considered that a person may believe a game can use work in certain areas and still find the game fun in others? Oh man.

If there is a "huge" portion of the player base that has never completed Trials --- or any dungeons, let alone vet ones, pledges, DSA, etc. --- the reason usually tends to be because those players are focused on mainly solo play and don't like to group up, so they don't attempt it, don't research to much about how to improve their builds to perform better and all the other things that usually jazz group players about group content. That doesn't make content itself "locked" for you. It is a CHOICE you are making with the time you have here. There are plenty of other players who choose differently. They enjoy being in guilds, making friends, learning to play in a team, and exploring all those areas of the game you think are so inaccessible. This is an MMO, not a solo only game.

If you are still having fun in the game, despite your complaints about it, then again -- good luck.

kaianvestra_ESO

Back to lurking.

Soulshine

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

Dogmatism at its finest.

The reason I said this was because you don't know me. You don't know how I think, my choices, how I play and enjoy the game, what I understand or realize, what I know and researched, what I believe to be an issue, my ideas, my suggestions, or my intentions when I type. Yet you kept making assumptions about me, taking words out of my mouth, and then asserting it on me as truth and it was beginning to tick me off. Humble yourself up homie, you know nothing jon snow.

What I know is that you keep editing your comments post being replied to, now a day after they were replied to so as to apparenty add in snarky remarks which still have no bearing on the point. If comments from others disagreeing with you on a forum like this tick you off, you are likely dealing with bigger fish to fry than the issues you have with the game. Good luck.

kaianvestra_ESO

Sure whatever you say. Your words are the second coming of jesus, we honestly should worship them.

MikeB

Dont be mistaken about Imperial City, its a PvE update with PvP thrown in. I dont see how people that have experienced Imperial City think its a PvP update. 90% of IC is PvE mobs, elites and bosses, if there were no other apposing faction players in IC it would be only PvE content.

Pirhana7_ESO

SG_Celerrimus wrote: »

PvP and PvE should remain separate. As a largely PvE players, having to bash my head against my keyboard and have a burning desire to Alt + f4 out of the game while trying to do the Imperial City quest line is not fun. I know this is a "PvP update", but adding in 2 dungeons isn't enough to hold the PvE people over long enough for orsinium, and having good PvE systems in a largely PvP focused update makes it unfun for core PvE people to try and do said content. I say this because I am unable to complete the Arena portion of the Imperial City quest line, as I am currently being camped by other players -_-

But the reason I like ESO is because of its mixed PVP and PVE..... PVE is alot more fun and exciting when you have to watch your back from enemy player attacks. Just about every other MMO seperates them, why do we need another?

ZOS was very clear since the beginning of production that this is a mixed PVP and PVE game where you need to do both to be as strong as possible and have everything which includes playing ti where it is mixed.. Don't play a game knowing what it is then expect them to change it to what you want it to be.

If you want PVP and PVE seperate you should be playing GW2.

Ryzaerian

The Imperial City is the most fun part of ESO right now.

tactica

SG_Celerrimus wrote: »

PvP and PvE should remain separate. As a largely PvE players, having to bash my head against my keyboard and have a burning desire to Alt + f4 out of the game while trying to do the Imperial City quest line is not fun. I know this is a "PvP update", but adding in 2 dungeons isn't enough to hold the PvE people over long enough for orsinium, and having good PvE systems in a largely PvP focused update makes it unfun for core PvE people to try and do said content. I say this because I am unable to complete the Arena portion of the Imperial City quest line, as I am currently being camped by other players -_-

I'm with you. I haven't even ventured in. I would prefer to be able to go do all the PvE content, whereever it is and just toggle "NOT INTERESTED" in the PvP stuff.

Then, when all the gankers, campers and the alike want to pop out and do their thing, they don't get to against me, and I can go on my merry way and do what I came to do. They can have their PvP party vs. any and all who are set up and want to play that game. I just don't.

Part of the problem is, the game requires two different builds for PvP and PvE maximizing... and if you want to be set up for maximum damage to handle PvE - you are severely disadvantaged in PvP... and vice versa... and you have to spend time leveling different skills for both. Moreover, not all toons / classes play equally with a given gear set for PvP or PvE... so, if you want to contend in both, you have to have a gear set for both.

However, they have elected to put part of the progression in PvE behind PVP walls... so, one feels compelled to step into areas they really may not want to partake, just to get through content they want to play and have paid for.

It would be better if you could just opt in or opt out of the PVP side... or, have seperate instances of Cyrodil / IC where PVP was on / off.

OPTIONS are a good thing... folks that want to play that way, can, folks that don't... can play the PvE content that was placed there, experience the world, the maps, dungeons, delves, and avoid the... part that is otherwise just frustration when all they want to do is game cooperatively with friends or solo against the existing PvE content throughout the game.

I'm with you OP. From all the agrees, looks like many are... wonder if ZoS listens to this feedback?

Ryzaerian

There have always been people who can't handle dying in PvP, and whine extensively when this happens.

If you can't take a pixellated death without having an emotional breakdown, stay out of the Imperial City. Your predictable diatribes, demanding that an intentionally-designed PvP/PvE zone be adjusted to your fragile psyche, are laughable. Stay out of the IC. Most of the game zones are PvE-only. This was a gift to us, the PvPers, and no amount of carebear rhetoric will change that.

Mixed PvP/PvE zones add an exciting, dynamic factor to an otherwise predictable environment. I hope we see much more of this in the future, ZOS. Keep up the good work!

Terrato37

Does pc not have multiple campaigns where 1 alliance controls everything? Ps4 does...

DenMoria

Trying to convince a hard PvEer to do PvP may be impossible and vice versa. More power to you PvPers that enjoy it, but I, personally do not enjoy the constant ganking. Not a slam against PvPers at all. I just stay away from Cyrodil and IC on the whole.

I can enjoy the game without ever doing PvP and be just fine. There's plenty to do.

One nice thing about ESO is that you do get the choice. Sure it's got to be tough for completionists and those chasing trophies and min/maxers, but, for this casual boy, I'm just fine with what there is.

Now, if I could only learn to not die constantly, I'd be all set.

Bramir

The difficulty and danger of the Imperial City zones are what makes them fun and immersive, and much of that comes from the PvP aspect.

If we give all the PvErs participation trophies, will they stop complaining and just have fun?

DenMoria

Bramir wrote: »

The difficulty and danger of the Imperial City zones are what makes them fun and immersive, and much of that comes from the PvP aspect.

If we give all the PvErs participation trophies, will they stop complaining and just have fun?

In my case. No. Too much stress. I'm not competitive enough for you PvPers.

I just want to have fun and running in huge zergs and dieing all the time isn't fun to me at all.

Bramir

DenMoria wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

The difficulty and danger of the Imperial City zones are what makes them fun and immersive, and much of that comes from the PvP aspect.

If we give all the PvErs participation trophies, will they stop complaining and just have fun?

In my case. No. Too much stress. I'm not competitive enough for you PvPers.

I just want to have fun and running in huge zergs and dieing all the time isn't fun to me at all.

I have only run in a true zerg once in IC...usually it is 2-8 players. I believe the rewards are optimized for that number, which would mean you are doing it wrong if you are in a giant group. More people is not necessarily a better thing..

At any rate, I have little time for gaming these days, but IC got me to start playing ESO again...

Uriel_Nocturne

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

I like the mix of PVE and PVP.
Adds a new flavor to ESO, every other MMO does this, don't see why ESO wouldn't.

Agreed.

I'm a core PvE player, and I'm having a blast in the Imperial City.

tactica

The snarky participation trophy and whining comments are uncalled for. No reason to get salty. Nothing like a forum to give a bit of internet strength to keyboard ninjas.

Nobody's asking for a participation trophy Sport. You can keep your achievements, trophies or any other head-swelling badge of honor you covet. In fact, if it's related at all to honor PvP, I don't think it belongs in any kind of PvE only space - if PvP was removed.

Some of us don't need virtual trophies in game worlds to know we have accomplished something, in game, in life or otherwise. I'm quite pleased with my station in life. I've pretty much laughed at the concept of trophies in games since inception. I'll leave that topic to others who have something to prove, and those who buy collectors edition anything for gaming and/or plastic things like game helmets... I just - don't care about any of it.

For a game I purchase for the PvE content, to relax and BS with friends over an adult beverage in the evening, I would prefer the dev NOT put the PvE content behind a PvP wall. Unfortunately, they didn't ask me. If they are going to go that route, cool, I still want to support them and their game. However, as a consumer - if they are listening and we PvE'ers get a vote - then if there are ways for people like us to get to the content without dealing with the unwanted madness of COD like PvP zones, I'm all for it. I would prefer to ignore the build changing and pvp gank-fest stuff I have no interest in... options are a good thing. I'm quite thankful the PvP is there for those that want to opt in... just think it's wise for the dev to also allow us access to all of the PvE content (or separate it) so we too can opt out.

Lots of ways to do that too... if opt out is set - make me permanently invisible or move me to a different zone / world where no PvP exists. I'm happy. Don't need of your PvP rewards, don't need any of your PvP titles or your trophies... you earned those, wear those like a badge. I prefer it so I know who those folks are. You can have it all... just let me and folks like me get to the PvE stuff I paid for, we can both go on our merry way.

Seems reasonable.

Gidorick

Yes to another mix.... but damn those zergs. Toggle friendly fire and make it fair for everyone!

Ryzaerian

tactica wrote: »

The snarky participation trophy and whining comments are uncalled for. No reason to get salty. Nothing like a forum to give a bit of internet strength to keyboard ninjas.

Your hypocrisy is staggering. You speak out against "snarky comments" and then fill your unnecessarily-long post with passive-aggressive, condescending crap.

And, in my opinion, the comments were absolutely necessary. Imperial City was designed as a PvP zone. That is the very foundation of its entire concept. You don't get to "opt out." You have two choices: buy it, or don't. But you don't get to change what it is, fundamentally, because PvP is too challenging and inconvenient for you. You're not entitled to special privileges. You don't get an easy mode.

You'll have plenty of strict PvE content in Wrothgar/Orsinium. But trying to modify one of the best concepts in the game, to turn it into just another PvE zone, because that's more to -your- liking? No. Not a chance. And no amount of carebear pseudo-intellectualism will change that.

Thymos

I say make more content like this.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

Dogmatism at its finest.

The reason I said this was because you don't know me. You don't know how I think, my choices, how I play and enjoy the game, what I understand or realize, what I know and researched, what I believe to be an issue, my ideas, my suggestions, or my intentions when I type. Yet you kept making assumptions about me, taking words out of my mouth, and then asserting it on me as truth and it was beginning to tick me off. Humble yourself up homie, you know nothing jon snow.

Everything soulshine say about you is true....your upset about the story being gated behind pvp but fail to see that the story has always been attached to some type of gameplay. Want the story of each zone pretty much got to solo with all the phasing, want the story of craglorn not only do you need a 4 man group but to end the whole storyline you need a trial group. Does it not seem logical that the story of the alliance war be entrenched in the actual alliance war ? Would you not expect to encounter enemy opposition in the heart of the alliance war ? The story of ESO has alway been attached to different parts of ESO gameplay, so the storyline of the alliance war makes sense to be in an area where you actually have to fight that the war you been hearing about since first escaping coldharbor. You are just as bad the pvp players who call pve players carebears when you make a comment telling people to go play CoD it LoL. The is a realm vs realm game at its core, it has been since the games inception, the endgame has always been the alliance war and the culmination of that was always suppose to be the imperial city PVX experience that we see today. Sadly if it were only story pve players where upset about then it would be an easy solution, make an IC only campaign with no pvp, no tel var stone gain, no VR16 mats, no trophies, only questing...but alas it is not only they story where their problem lies, it's more about having their cake and eating it too.

kaianvestra_ESO

What if being in a raid group 5+ or being in the proximity of X amount of fellow alliance while in IC gave a stacking reduction in your pvp capabilities? How else could you deter this zerg or be zergged mentality? I'm sure if a group of 12+ could be buttpounded by a group of 5 or 6, people wouldn't want to zerg anymore, lol.

Call it daedric oppression or something rofl.

Sandmanninja

Ryzaerian wrote: »

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

I seriously hate the word carebear. There's a very good reason why most other mmos have both pve and pvp servers. Just because someone enjoys a game a different way than you doesn't mean they are less of a player than you. I could call you worse names for playing the way you do, but I don't, I respect you as a person and the way you choose to enjoy the game, unfortunately.

I don't care what you think of the word "carebear," carebear. Your self-righteous lecture bored me to tears, though.

Question: Do you *** while you tea bag PvE players?

newtinmpls

Soulshine wrote: »

If there is a "huge" portion of the player base that has never completed Trials --- or any dungeons, let alone vet ones, pledges, DSA, etc. --- the reason usually tends to be because those players are focused on mainly solo play and don't like to group up, so they don't attempt it, don't research to much about how to improve their builds to perform better and all the other things that usually jazz group players about group content.

I'm not focused mainly on solo play - in fact I'm focused on "group" play, but I define my 'grouping's in terms of good role-playing and interactions, not in terms of a momentary grouping function for a particular delve/trial/whatever.

I don't necessarily like all of the storylines/sub-plots, but as far as I can tell, any given "trial" mainly consists of concentrated and distilled min-maxing. To me .... no appeal there. Maybe I am missing something. Maybe I will try it some day.

Just not any time soon.

For those who really like it - go you!

I like to think there is room for all of us here.
.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

What if being in a raid group 5+ or being in the proximity of X amount of fellow alliance while in IC gave a stacking reduction in your pvp capabilities? How else could you deter this zerg or be zergged mentality? I'm sure if a group of 12+ could be buttpounded by a group of 5 or 6, people wouldn't want to zerg anymore, lol.

Call it daedric oppression or something rofl.

Looks like somebody needs to go to school

notimetocare

SG_Celerrimus wrote: »

PvP and PvE should remain separate. As a largely PvE players, having to bash my head against my keyboard and have a burning desire to Alt + f4 out of the game while trying to do the Imperial City quest line is not fun. I know this is a "PvP update", but adding in 2 dungeons isn't enough to hold the PvE people over long enough for orsinium, and having good PvE systems in a largely PvP focused update makes it unfun for core PvE people to try and do said content. I say this because I am unable to complete the Arena portion of the Imperial City quest line, as I am currently being camped by other players -_-

I hope all future pve content includes pvp. However, I would prefer it included in-faction pvp. This would make it easier to prevent bad people from feeling good.

Soulshine

newtinmpls wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

If there is a "huge" portion of the player base that has never completed Trials --- or any dungeons, let alone vet ones, pledges, DSA, etc. --- the reason usually tends to be because those players are focused on mainly solo play and don't like to group up, so they don't attempt it, don't research to much about how to improve their builds to perform better and all the other things that usually jazz group players about group content.

I'm not focused mainly on solo play - in fact I'm focused on "group" play, but I define my 'grouping's in terms of good role-playing and interactions, not in terms of a momentary grouping function for a particular delve/trial/whatever.

I don't necessarily like all of the storylines/sub-plots, but as far as I can tell, any given "trial" mainly consists of concentrated and distilled min-maxing. To me .... no appeal there. Maybe I am missing something. Maybe I will try it some day.

Just not any time soon.

For those who really like it - go you!

I like to think there is room for all of us here.
.

And the kind of grouping I was referring to in response to the previous commenter arguing about how a "huge" portion of players won't complete Trials is not related to "a momentary grouping function," which incudentally is the antithesis of what progression through hardmode content and "min maxing" as you put it is about.

I was talking about players who are, like you with roleplaying, happy to create bonds over the long term and work together to achieve a goal. Guilds with players on PvE leaderboads for example (and to some degree, even some with players on the PvP boards) did not get there by casually grouping now and then with total strangers for a quick faceroll run in an Undaunted pledge. They got there by learning the harder content together with a dedicated team and getting better at it over time.

Most soloers are not into dedicating that kind of time to an activity that does not appeal to them, which is totally fine - but it does NOT mean the content in question is bad or that it is locking them out because it can result in failures for a time, failures of the type never experienced in solo content, before they can get better at it. It is play at a different level, where the goal at hand is not about just what you want or what you get or achieve, its about what you make happen with 3, or in Trials case 11, other people.

Some soloers do attempt group content alone. Some succeed at it. That is still not the type of experience I was referring to either.

But no matter. Obviously there is room for all of us here - and I'd like to see it remain that way, not watch any attempt the devs venture into at providing varying levels of play options get drowned out in a tsunami of incessant complaining that if it isn't something that can be done solo, with minimal risk to boot, it should not be in the game --- not that I am suggssting you yourself are saying that. Rather, that we have had an obscene degree of threads for months now from many segments of players constantly demanding this or that be removed, nerfed, not allowed, etc. This is just one more.

It rrrrreally gets old.