Please dont mix it again

Daymond

Just wanted to post that I am really enjoying the new update and DLC I have soloed and grouped with 2-6 man teams with guildies. I like that if I want full on pvp with constant fighting go to a district that has loads of players. If I want to cooloff and enjoy some simple pve mixed in with a small dose of pvp to keep me on my toes I go to a less populated district and have fun there.Then I can go to cyrodiil for my large scale pvp fix. So I think this is an amazing game and dlc (besides the few bugs and crashes that I have had). So thank you devs for making a game that I enjoy alot.

ACHILLES 343i

Seeing as how they never wanted to make seperate PvP servers ( where pvp exists everywhere outside of cyrodiil) This is probably the closest thing we will have to that. I'm always a big supporter of pvp servers.

Sandmanninja

amatic wrote: »

I think ic is great..really loving it.
Just chill out carebear, every future dlc will be made especially for softies like you.

See?! THAT is the attitude we want NOTHING to do with. I really hate PvP and this damn DLC. It has almost completely ruined me towards ESO.

kaianvestra_ESO

I'm sorry if that last post came off as aggressive, but I wouldn't be here if completing pve was as easy as you suggest. I'm a full PvE tank and trying to complete anything, even a pack of 2 normal mobs has been a challenge. I've also been struggling to find groups for anything and the only reason I was able to get anything done at all was because I had a dps friend that I often play with and we did work to 2 man most of the content, simply cuz we couldn't find anyone else to do it with. Everyone is either in the sewers or pvping. The constant blocking of completion due to pvp is trying both of our patience with the game. And a good rule of thumb on forums is, if one person posts it, many other nonvocals are having the same experience. If you were able to complete everything without a hitch, then truly I'm happy for you, but that doesn't take away from my and others' poor experiences and difficulties finding people and completing content. God knows pvp players needed some love and IC is indeed fun for pvp, but trying to advertise or argue it as equal parts pve is silly. Telling me I don't have to play IC is even less helpful. It's the Imperial City, so of course I want to play it. For people like me, you need other people, and there just aren't other people readily accessible.

Like I feel like if the PvE story was more in the sewers, or more like the sewers, it'd be less of an issue, because people are always grouping to run through, and although there's always the risk of getting ganked or mowed over by a zerg it wasn't nearly as oppressive as long as you were in your factions side of the sewers.

MrGrimey

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

I like the mix of PVE and PVP.
Adds a new flavor to ESO, every other MMO does this, don't see why ESO wouldn't.

But in every other mmo, IC would just be another zone, not a $25 DLC. All IC is, is a cross faction PVE area just like any other MMO. I was very surprised when I first started playing eso, that you couldn't have any open world pvp, see opposing factions or duel for that matter. Zos pretty much charged $25 for a basic mmo feature.

In any other mmo, IC would be Considered PVE content

Ryzaerian

I wholeheartedly disagree with the Carebear senator's motion. The thrill/danger of PvP makes PvE way more fun.

kaianvestra_ESO

I seriously hate the word carebear. There's a very good reason why most other mmos have both pve and pvp servers. Just because someone enjoys a game a different way than you doesn't mean they are less of a player than you. I could call you worse names for playing the way you do, but I don't, I respect you as a person and the way you choose to enjoy the game, unfortunately.

amatic

Sandmanninja wrote: »

amatic wrote: »

I think ic is great..really loving it.
Just chill out carebear, every future dlc will be made especially for softies like you.

See?! THAT is the attitude we want NOTHING to do with. I really hate PvP and this damn DLC. It has almost completely ruined me towards ESO.

yeah we get it..pve players hate pvp and come to the forums to moan..but what about pvp players..are we allowed any love.
its your attitude that i want nothing to do with..you hate pvp so that should be it?..all future dlc catered only for you?.
its such a selfish attitude,there is a lot of pvp players enjoying the ic update..just let us have our dlc without crying about it.

kaianvestra_ESO

If IC was meant to be your(pvp players) update, then it should have been just that, pvp. Adding incentive to make pve players want to get involved and then pissing them off isn't ok. Please don't mix it again, that is the title of the thread. Let pvp players have their pvp updates, and let pve players have their pve. Moving forward if the 2 ever get mixed again it needs a healthier balance or border imo.

Rikal

lordrichter wrote: »

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

-Robert A. Heinlein

PVE + PVP mix is fine.

However, Players should not be bright shiny targets in a dull grey world. Give PVP players something to achieve that is not Tel Var stones taken from other players.

Yup, Heinlein was great at writing fiction.

Soulshine

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

If IC was meant to be your(pvp players) update, then it should have been just that, pvp. Adding incentive to make pve players want to get involved and then pissing them off isn't ok. Please don't mix it again, that is the title of the thread. Let pvp players have their pvp updates, and let pve players have their pve. Moving forward if the 2 ever get mixed again it needs a healthier balance or border imo.

This update to the game was planned from the get go as a mixed zone, per ZoS multiple statements on IC going as far back as early launch, to QuakeCon 2014 to earlier this year and then again in QuakeCon2015.

Presenting the idea that somehow PvE was later added in the 9th hour as merely as a marketing ploy is just flat out incorrect. It was never designed with only PvP for the zone in mind. It was also not designed to just be a nother zerg-infested zone of PvE players but unfortunately, there is no way to get rid of them considering how most PvE players look at PvP.

If you don't cater to the vision ZoS had in mind when creating this, that is of course your natural prerogative, as it is to request that future zones added to the game be of PvE or PvP rather than both - but stop misrepresenting what this update is supposed to be about. If you don't like it, then don't buy it, and don't play it. There is and will continue to be plenty of PvE only content in the game.

kaianvestra_ESO

I'm not the one claiming that this patch was meant for them. I'm the one saying it's not balanced enough between the 2, whether or not that's how it was intended doesn't matter, what matters is how it is and how it turned out.

I fully understand what zos intended, yet the opposite argument is always "let pvp players have this, we don't get updates." I imagine the whole experience would have been better had zergfests not ruined it, I agree. But it happened.

I've enjoyed it highly for its pvp, I wanted to enjoy it for its pve as well, but that's not happening.

Zavus

Soulshine said it best xD

DigitalShibby

The only thing that bugs me about IC is the set crafting stations. Their locations are annoying being that just to craft some gear you need to sneak past zergs and hope the door isn't camped.. but also some of those new 5th piece bonuses are sh!t, especially ones with 9 traits required.

dlepi24

Yeah.....feeling like PvE and PvP mixed together is the best thing they could've done...Give me your stones

Soulshine

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

I'm not the one claiming that this patch was meant for them. I'm the one saying it's not balanced enough between the 2, whether or not that's how it was intended doesn't matter, what matters is how it is and how it turned out.

I fully understand what zos intended, yet the opposite argument is always "let pvp players have this, we don't get updates." I imagine the whole experience would have been better had zergfests not ruined it, I agree. But it happened.

Again, disregarding the intent of the zone is the challenge many seem to be struggling with.

An exact balance of equal part PvE to PvP activities in the zone was not part of the design, and that was patently obvious upon the very first announcements about it last year. They stated quite clearly why there would be PvE elements in the zone, and of those, which would be the most likely opportunities for PvE focused players to tackle and which would likely not be.

It is the refusal to educate oneself as a consumer prior to making a purchase, for lack of a better analogy, which has landed most people here posting into this "debate" about what IC "should have been. vs what it is."

In other words, ignoring the developers very clear (for ONCE) presentation of what IC was for and then later clamoring for it to be changed because it does not suit some misguided expectation which people are refusing to let go is not the developers fault, and it is certainly not the fault of the players who are trying, most of the time without success, to find a modicum of the environment they were finally presented with only to have it watered down to a shadow of its potential because people refuse to play it as intended.

To quote the tired cliche, here too is another example of "why we cannot have nice things."

skillastat

I am a PvP player and if I want to have the best gear in the game I am forced to PvE for BOP items.

Now PvE players must PvP in order to get the new currency, to buy some of the best gear in the game.

Are we starting to see something suspicious here ?

AshTal

I really think when Orsinium is released then imperial city will die. Most of the people I see just want to farm stones to get the gear, When PvP happens in the sewers its a massive Zerg coming in to kill stone farmers.

Already most of the PvP people are back in Cyrodil.

I cant find any group large enough (and at the same stage) of the story arc to do it. And most of the time the places to do the story are camped by people just wanting to grief other players. So I will never find out about this story they have written.

My hope is that we get a solo or small (4 man) version of imperial city for PvE.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on inappropriate comments]

kaianvestra_ESO

Soulshine wrote: »

Again, disregarding the intent of the zone is the challenge many seem to be struggling with.

There are only 3 ways it could have been intended to have gone and you've already said 2 were incorrect. PvP focused, PvE focused, or a blend of the 2. So which is it, please explain.

But like I said it doesn't at all matter right now how it was intended, what matters is what actually happened. IC flopped in favor of pvp activity and zerging while the pve quest line rots away.

AshTal wrote: »

I cant find any group large enough (and at the same stage) of the story arc to do it. And most of the time the places to do the story are camped by people just wanting to grief other players. So I will never find out about this story they have written.

My hope is that we get a solo or small (4 man) version of imperial city for PvE.

This guy sees the problem.

There are only 2 things I care about in a game above everything else, with some exceptions, story and how fun it is to interact with that story(ie gameplay). Couple posts above me guy mentions gear. I literally give 0 quacks about gear or raids or anything when compared to the story. When story is gated or ballsed up with unfun gameplay to me is a problem. The only fun I'll have with IC is when I'm there to kill players, but nothing else, and it's a complete shame. RIP pve elements.

Swindy

Soulshine wrote: »

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

I'm not the one claiming that this patch was meant for them. I'm the one saying it's not balanced enough between the 2, whether or not that's how it was intended doesn't matter, what matters is how it is and how it turned out.

I fully understand what zos intended, yet the opposite argument is always "let pvp players have this, we don't get updates." I imagine the whole experience would have been better had zergfests not ruined it, I agree. But it happened.

Again, disregarding the intent of the zone is the challenge many seem to be struggling with.

An exact balance of equal part PvE to PvP activities in the zone was not part of the design, and that was patently obvious upon the very first announcements about it last year. They stated quite clearly why there would be PvE elements in the zone, and of those, which would be the most likely opportunities for PvE focused players to tackle and which would likely not be.

It is the refusal to educate oneself as a consumer prior to making a purchase, for lack of a better analogy, which has landed most people here posting into this "debate" about what IC "should have been. vs what it is."

In other words, ignoring the developers very clear (for ONCE) presentation of what IC was for and then later clamoring for it to be changed because it does not suit some misguided expectation which people are refusing to let go is not the developers fault, and it is certainly not the fault of the players who are trying, most of the time without success, to find a modicum of the environment they were finally presented with only to have it watered down to a shadow of its potential because people refuse to play it as intended.

To quote the tired cliche, here too is another example of "why we cannot have nice things."

I'm a Pve solo non-grouped & non-guilded 3 decade Elder Scrolls geek...no apologies. (I am looking for trading guilds now.)

I was really sick of being ganked in Cyro...but again, I MUST attempt all the content my (limited) gaming abilities allow me to.
The IC was ALWAYS to be Pvp with some Pve content...ALWAYS.
Again for the people in the sight-blinded seats, ALWAYS.
If myself, the epitomy of anti-Pvp, knew it ahead of time, and still paid for it, I have zero right to complain.
I HAD to buy it, as it's part of my ES legacy of game-play..& it's a Pvp war zone, so people will farm AP/stones from me if they can, that's their absolute right, so I have no issues there and I knew full well it would not be to my personal liking in the most part for that reason, and for the need of a group to do most of the content (aka Craglorn).

Yet in IC, and I entered on a Pact buff to attempt to avoid ongoing ganking, I have not seen any non-Pact player on my solo travels...which is good as I'm in trouble enough against the NPC's solo, and I'm no hope with the wandering bosses.

What I have seen, and for which I criticize ESO in design here, is zergs numbering 30-60 stomping through the main quest line. Every night when the XBox EU server comes alive with players, I'm witnessing this.
Now it has advantages that, for example, no way could I have done the Arena without others...but being steam-rolled through the quest line on the tail of this hysteria isn't enjoyable, and I assume, not the design.
So clearly these players are not story line intent, and that's ok, but gee following their tsunami leaves not a single NPC, gate, boss, nothing.
There's sometimes gaps between zergs that one can slot into, if the critters respawn in time, but for gaming geeks like myself, ESO seems to have not thought out the parameters of gameplay.
I would believe that Pvp diehards would find this as annoying as I do, for different reasons. How can any of you get a bare knuckles small scale scrap on, whilst dodging NPC's that are not weak and being steam rolled by hordes?

I fail to understand why these huge groups exist, as they are missing out on loot (scaled to number of participants in a boss battle as an example), XP (same), storyline (none even stop to read lore books or collect skyshards), & Pvp opportunities.
Other than omnipotence through numbers, what is it they get out of this experience?
And why does ZOS allow it?

Ryzaerian

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

I seriously hate the word carebear. There's a very good reason why most other mmos have both pve and pvp servers. Just because someone enjoys a game a different way than you doesn't mean they are less of a player than you. I could call you worse names for playing the way you do, but I don't, I respect you as a person and the way you choose to enjoy the game, unfortunately.

I don't care what you think of the word "carebear," carebear. Your self-righteous lecture bored me to tears, though.

Soulshine

kaianvestra_ESO wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Again, disregarding the intent of the zone is the challenge many seem to be struggling with.

There are only 3 ways it could have been intended to have gone and you've already said 2 were incorrect. PvP focused, PvE focused, or a blend of the 2. So which is it, please explain.

But like I said it doesn't at all matter right now how it was intended, what matters is what actually happened. IC flopped in favor of pvp activity and zerging while the pve quest line rots away.

AshTal wrote: »

I cant find any group large enough (and at the same stage) of the story arc to do it. And most of the time the places to do the story are camped by people just wanting to grief other players. So I will never find out about this story they have written.

My hope is that we get a solo or small (4 man) version of imperial city for PvE.

This guy sees the problem.

There are only 2 things I care about in a game above everything else, with some exceptions, story and how fun it is to interact with that story(ie gameplay). Couple posts above me guy mentions gear. I literally give 0 quacks about gear or raids or anything when compared to the story. When story is gated or ballsed up with unfun gameplay to me is a problem. The only fun I'll have with IC is when I'm there to kill players, but nothing else, and it's a complete shame. RIP pve elements.

I actually have already explained it, buy you appear to be choosing to ignore the explanation.

Again, as stated before: the zone was intended to be a PvP zone. They repeatedly said there would also be some PvE elements in the zone, given the story. They never stated it would be 50/50 PvE/PvP. There was really nothing to be confused about on this point.

Choosing to ignore the intent, actually IS part of the reason people like you are not happy about what it has to offer. Choosing to ignore the design, choosing to insist on complaining that IC "flopped in favor of PvP" is disregarding the facts and is actually what has created the zerg fest mentality of PvErs in the space to begin with.

The intent for the content DOES matter and it is people constantly ignoring that and complaining about it not being what they mistakenly expected it to be that has caused a huge part of the problems in IC from a gameplay perspective. Accusations of design failure notwithstanding, you cannot realistically sit back and demand changes to problems when you are complicit in the most glaring ones to be found there to begin with.

Mojmir

So when orsinium hits,there will be no griping from pvpers,riiiiight.lol

UltimaJoe777

Anyone here remember Runescape before Runescape 2 and 3, aka Classic? Way back when Rune and the Wilderness were first introduced... Greater Demons, 'nuff said and all I will say. Too much whining about this topic going on as is.

Demon_Knight

Agreed.

Keep PvE away from PvP. I thought the update was supposed to give PvP players more content. The DLC is not for PvP players, it's just located in the PvP area.

Players have been begging for 1v1 up to 4v4 arena style match-ups and nobody is listening.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Such entitlement in this thread. PvP hasn't had an update since launch. And there is nothing but PvE players saying they need even more content.


PvP finally gets a cookie, then PvE Zergballs our cookie and demands 5 more just to themselves because we finally got 1.

Mojmir

Pvp didn't get a cookie,you got crumbs. It's lazyness to call this a pvp update.

jircris11

Mr_Bubbely wrote: »

I like the mix of PVE and PVP.
Adds a new flavor to ESO, every other MMO does this, don't see why ESO wouldn't.

sadly since pvp is mixed in with this i am unable to even go to the new area. i can not handle large amounts of stress or i will be hospitalized, raids and even dungeons are iffy. some times i get a good group and no stress other times i need to drop out due to my heart pain. Normal pve is relaxing and simple for me, pvp is something i use to love but had to leave due to it. So basically this expansion is a middle finger to someone who has been here since beta and never once broke their sub. but i will live, i hear its quite fun though i hope the next one is a pve only expansion.

Mettaricana

I love the pvpve playing style its like a mix up rather than the same enmy over and over its like sure I may die or I may kill a player and make payloads of goodies and the boss runs feel like a fun reason to group up. Its like hey boss telvar and loots or maybe we get ambushed and have to fight for our life. Normal cyrodil its like oh I died who cares no incentive to actually play good just face roll over enemies til you die snore. Its actually like to see more pvpve options kinda like a pvp dragon star with squads vs squads vs mobs anything goes

Forestd16b14_ESO

How about yes to a another mix.