Yonkit wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Nah dude, I like being allowed to go stamina DK. Or, like, -anything- stamina. Though there's certainly been some things taken out that would be nice to see come back. I have no idea what your pot build is but sure man, go for it, let's have that again.

stamina was functional in 1.5.... very functional, just ask @xylena

Manoekin wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Auricle wrote: »

No thanks. This update may have its issues, but it's the most balanced the classes have ever been. And IC, while a bit grindy right now, is still pretty sweet. No way I'd give that up just so everyone can run around in skirts with their magic sticks waving.

Someone obviously has never played a DK this patch.

DK's are good this patch, though.

Yonkit wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Yup. It's a shame. I officially quit tonight. The gear grind just got real. with 1.5 I would do it. Not this crap. On top of the gear grind this battle leveling is ***. I paid subscription this whole time. No more.

To see how much time I wasted i /played. 96 days. Lol. Oh well

60 days on one toon, 110 days on the other, I feel the same way.

@Manoekin it's not just you, ground oils, unpurgeable meat catties and oil catties, and you can wipe zergs again. But revert this *** battle spirit change too.

No unpurgeable oil catapults were horrible and that's why they got rid of them. Once the general population figured it out you could barely run a normal group. My guild would only run 16 and even then, it's half the group getting separated from everyone else just because there's 10 oil catapults pointed at us whenever we try to engage another faction. Siege that's too powerful will only ever favor the zerg.

unpurgeable oil catapults was the hard counter to zergs.......

It was the hard counter to organized group play, not zergs. The hard counter to zergs in 1.5 and before was actually being good.

Yonkit wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Nah dude, I like being allowed to go stamina DK. Or, like, -anything- stamina. Though there's certainly been some things taken out that would be nice to see come back. I have no idea what your pot build is but sure man, go for it, let's have that again.

stamina was functional in 1.5.... very functional, just ask @xylena

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Ill take 1.2.3 over this

frozywozy wrote: »

#Remove AOE Cap
#Bring back Ground Oil
#Bring back Meatbag healing debuff 40%

frozywozy wrote: »

#Remove AOE Cap
#Bring back Ground Oil
#Bring back Meatbag healing debuff 40%

Joy_Division wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Hmm okay.

Honestly I prefer this patch or 1.5. 1.5 more so, but this patch is better than last patch.

Last patch we had so many broken mechanics. Nirnhoned, double mundus stones, sorcs getting shield shields to 30-40k(I know someone who had 40k shields towards the end of update 6), penetration not working, a lot of races being underpowered, people getting 1 shot so easily, etc.

I understand that the damage for a low of people is too low this patch. In some cases, I agree. However...VR16 Weapons and Jewelry make a HUGE difference. I was doing very low damage on my Templar with my vr14 armor, I got vr16 and now my damage is significantly higher.

As for DK's, I know some things were hit, like Dragon Blood. However I think we just need to adapt. I know @Velukodi has a DK build on his youtube channel that has been working very well. He, like the majority of magicka dks, were running S/B block setup. He's got dual wield resto now and he's doing great(proving my point of adapting).

I pretty much usually agree with everything you post but I must take exception to the last point. I just don't know how one can make an assessment with no personal experience and simply relying on quick observations of what other people are doing. There is adapting and then there is simply playing the crappy hand you were dealt with for reasons: zero desire to suffer through ZoS's grind to level up another character, not wanting to retire an Alliance rank 35+ character, a desperate attempt to put a round peg into a square hole, self delusion, the hope that things will be better tomorrow, etc.

Kodi can make a DK "work" because he is a very experienced player with extensive knowledge of the class and because although the class skills / synergies are relatively lacking, they are not useless. If I play a game of chess against most of my friends and spot them a bishop, I will still defeat them most of the time because I am a better player with more experience.

Also if you point to @Velukodi as an example of the class's successful adaptation, I will point to Sypher as and example of the failure of the class to adapt itself the the PvP meta since the 1.6 patch. There was a time when Sypher was synonymous with DKs. Since 1.6, I have encountered and seen Sypher many times on his NB and, towards the end of 1.6, his sorcerer. I saw him a grand total of ONCE on his DK build, dead next to a breach at Castle Alessia. Although he might say that he is more excited to play different classes or that he has nothing else to prove with DKS and that maybe true, I have a hard time believing his neglect of his famous DK is not due to how unsuitable the class was to solo oriented play. Just listen to what he has to say on a video he uploaded that was intended to showcase a DK tanking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Pvabq9Fso

"I have to move away from the situation ...I can't do that with this DK. I can move in-between this rock and this rock, and kind of just like camp a little bit ...I didn't really kill anyone over there ... You just going to be doing this [running away in mist form] ... I'm doing a great job stalling these guys, but that's just about it ... Can I escape? That's a question we'll find out."

And this was during 1.6, when they could perma block and GreenDragon Blood was worth a damn.

Not only have the majority of their skills been nerfed (that is not exaggeration btw: chains, ash cloud, standard, inhale, talons, molten armaments, inferno, scales, GDB, fragmented shield, etc.), but also just about every change is the ESO meta has moved in a direction away from the DKs class strengths. No class was hit harder that it with the change to dynamic ultimate, no class relies as heavily on DoTs - virtually useless in a burst meta where everyone has unlimited resources - the nerf to block that served as its primary defense, the trend toward zergs that place a premium on escape/mobility, amongst others has made it a very frustrating class to play.

I find it admirable that people like Kodi still stay at it and log into their DK. Me? I go the Sypher route and spend my time not trying to make square pegs fit round holes.

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Hmm okay.

Honestly I prefer this patch or 1.5. 1.5 more so, but this patch is better than last patch.

Last patch we had so many broken mechanics. Nirnhoned, double mundus stones, sorcs getting shield shields to 30-40k(I know someone who had 40k shields towards the end of update 6), penetration not working, a lot of races being underpowered, people getting 1 shot so easily, etc.

I understand that the damage for a low of people is too low this patch. In some cases, I agree. However...VR16 Weapons and Jewelry make a HUGE difference. I was doing very low damage on my Templar with my vr14 armor, I got vr16 and now my damage is significantly higher.

As for DK's, I know some things were hit, like Dragon Blood. However I think we just need to adapt. I know @Velukodi has a DK build on his youtube channel that has been working very well. He, like the majority of magicka dks, were running S/B block setup. He's got dual wield resto now and he's doing great(proving my point of adapting).

I pretty much usually agree with everything you post but I must take exception to the last point. I just don't know how one can make an assessment with no personal experience and simply relying on quick observations of what other people are doing. There is adapting and then there is simply playing the crappy hand you were dealt with for reasons: zero desire to suffer through ZoS's grind to level up another character, not wanting to retire an Alliance rank 35+ character, a desperate attempt to put a round peg into a square hole, self delusion, the hope that things will be better tomorrow, etc.

Kodi can make a DK "work" because he is a very experienced player with extensive knowledge of the class and because although the class skills / synergies are relatively lacking, they are not useless. If I play a game of chess against most of my friends and spot them a bishop, I will still defeat them most of the time because I am a better player with more experience.

Also if you point to @Velukodi as an example of the class's successful adaptation, I will point to Sypher as and example of the failure of the class to adapt itself the the PvP meta since the 1.6 patch. There was a time when Sypher was synonymous with DKs. Since 1.6, I have encountered and seen Sypher many times on his NB and, towards the end of 1.6, his sorcerer. I saw him a grand total of ONCE on his DK build, dead next to a breach at Castle Alessia. Although he might say that he is more excited to play different classes or that he has nothing else to prove with DKS and that maybe true, I have a hard time believing his neglect of his famous DK is not due to how unsuitable the class was to solo oriented play. Just listen to what he has to say on a video he uploaded that was intended to showcase a DK tanking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Pvabq9Fso

"I have to move away from the situation ...I can't do that with this DK. I can move in-between this rock and this rock, and kind of just like camp a little bit ...I didn't really kill anyone over there ... You just going to be doing this [running away in mist form] ... I'm doing a great job stalling these guys, but that's just about it ... Can I escape? That's a question we'll find out."

And this was during 1.6, when they could perma block and GreenDragon Blood was worth a damn.

Not only have the majority of their skills been nerfed (that is not exaggeration btw: chains, ash cloud, standard, inhale, talons, molten armaments, inferno, scales, GDB, fragmented shield, etc.), but also just about every change is the ESO meta has moved in a direction away from the DKs class strengths. No class was hit harder that it with the change to dynamic ultimate, no class relies as heavily on DoTs - virtually useless in a burst meta where everyone has unlimited resources - the nerf to block that served as its primary defense, the trend toward zergs that place a premium on escape/mobility, amongst others has made it a very frustrating class to play.

I find it admirable that people like Kodi still stay at it and log into their DK. Me? I go the Sypher route and spend my time not trying to make square pegs fit round holes.

Sypher has always been a 1vX player and will always be. Nothing wrong with that btw. But he just cannot do it anymore on either magicka or stamina DK because of the lack of mobility. Same reason why he has not been leveling his templar much. He has way too much fun on his magicka nightblade or magicka sorc in 1vX to try a meta on dk or temp.

Yes they did nerf streak and bolt escape but it is still an escape move in areas where there is alot of LoS issues such as the sewers. It is very easy for sorcs or nightblades to bolt/streak/cloak away using corners and obstacles at their advantages unlike dks and templars who have to relay on mist form which can be targeted, charged, immobilized, rooted and snared easily.

There won't be any chance for dks and templars to 1vX until they can either defend themselves and sustain themselves more or until they get a way to escape a bad situation.

So until they change the OP snares and give DKs and Templars a way to escape like Nbs and Sorcs, there is nothing to be done with DKs in 1vX. Like you pointed out, some people stick with their character and don't want to retire them because of the high alliance rank and that's pretty much it.

Joy_Division wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Hmm okay.

Honestly I prefer this patch or 1.5. 1.5 more so, but this patch is better than last patch.

Last patch we had so many broken mechanics. Nirnhoned, double mundus stones, sorcs getting shield shields to 30-40k(I know someone who had 40k shields towards the end of update 6), penetration not working, a lot of races being underpowered, people getting 1 shot so easily, etc.

I understand that the damage for a low of people is too low this patch. In some cases, I agree. However...VR16 Weapons and Jewelry make a HUGE difference. I was doing very low damage on my Templar with my vr14 armor, I got vr16 and now my damage is significantly higher.

As for DK's, I know some things were hit, like Dragon Blood. However I think we just need to adapt. I know @Velukodi has a DK build on his youtube channel that has been working very well. He, like the majority of magicka dks, were running S/B block setup. He's got dual wield resto now and he's doing great(proving my point of adapting).

I pretty much usually agree with everything you post but I must take exception to the last point. I just don't know how one can make an assessment with no personal experience and simply relying on quick observations of what other people are doing. There is adapting and then there is simply playing the crappy hand you were dealt with for reasons: zero desire to suffer through ZoS's grind to level up another character, not wanting to retire an Alliance rank 35+ character, a desperate attempt to put a round peg into a square hole, self delusion, the hope that things will be better tomorrow, etc.

Kodi can make a DK "work" because he is a very experienced player with extensive knowledge of the class and because although the class skills / synergies are relatively lacking, they are not useless. If I play a game of chess against most of my friends and spot them a bishop, I will still defeat them most of the time because I am a better player with more experience.

Also if you point to @Velukodi as an example of the class's successful adaptation, I will point to Sypher as and example of the failure of the class to adapt itself the the PvP meta since the 1.6 patch. There was a time when Sypher was synonymous with DKs. Since 1.6, I have encountered and seen Sypher many times on his NB and, towards the end of 1.6, his sorcerer. I saw him a grand total of ONCE on his DK build, dead next to a breach at Castle Alessia. Although he might say that he is more excited to play different classes or that he has nothing else to prove with DKS and that maybe true, I have a hard time believing his neglect of his famous DK is not due to how unsuitable the class was to solo oriented play. Just listen to what he has to say on a video he uploaded that was intended to showcase a DK tanking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Pvabq9Fso

"I have to move away from the situation ...I can't do that with this DK. I can move in-between this rock and this rock, and kind of just like camp a little bit ...I didn't really kill anyone over there ... You just going to be doing this [running away in mist form] ... I'm doing a great job stalling these guys, but that's just about it ... Can I escape? That's a question we'll find out."

And this was during 1.6, when they could perma block and GreenDragon Blood was worth a damn.

Not only have the majority of their skills been nerfed (that is not exaggeration btw: chains, ash cloud, standard, inhale, talons, molten armaments, inferno, scales, GDB, fragmented shield, etc.), but also just about every change is the ESO meta has moved in a direction away from the DKs class strengths. No class was hit harder that it with the change to dynamic ultimate, no class relies as heavily on DoTs - virtually useless in a burst meta where everyone has unlimited resources - the nerf to block that served as its primary defense, the trend toward zergs that place a premium on escape/mobility, amongst others has made it a very frustrating class to play.

I find it admirable that people like Kodi still stay at it and log into their DK. Me? I go the Sypher route and spend my time not trying to make square pegs fit round holes.

Yonkit wrote: »

@Joy_Division I couldn't have said it better myself Joy, everything in your post is exactly what I've been trying to explain to people for the last month, DKs are dead, can you still make them work? Sure, if making your car work is putting *** in your tank just so you can get that last bit of gas to go, the only reason I haven't 100% given up on my DK yet is because of his AvA rank, his notoriety for trolling and the fact that I have no desire to grind my v1 sorc or templar or play my v15 magblade anymore.

If it weren't for friends, I would've quit a long time ago.

frozywozy wrote: »

Sypher has always been a 1vX player and will always be (I think). Nothing wrong with that. But he just cannot do it anymore on either magicka or stamina DK because of the lack of mobility. Same reason why he has not been leveling his templar much. He has way too much fun on his magicka nightblade or magicka sorc in 1vX to try a meta on dk or temp.

Yes they did nerf streak and bolt escape but it is still an escape move in areas where there is alot of LoS issues such as the sewers. It is very easy for sorcs or nightblades to bolt/streak/cloak away using corners and obstacles at their advantages unlike dks and templars who have to relay on mist form which can be targeted, charged, immobilized, rooted and snared easily.

There won't be any chance for dks and templars to 1vX until they can either defend themselves and sustain themselves more or until they get a way to escape a bad situation.

So until they change the OP snares and give DKs and Templars a way to escape like Nbs and Sorcs, there is nothing to be done with DKs in 1vX. Like you pointed out, some people stick with their character and don't want to retire them because of the high alliance rank and that's pretty much it.