Hi,

on my magicka NB I use funnel health morph on my destro bar for weaving.
I only use DW as AOE/close combat bar since you get the extra spell damage.

Can someone please explain how DW increases spell damage?

Resipsa131 wrote: »

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

Can someone please explain how DW increases spell damage?

Because a significant component of spell damage is inherent weapon damage.

That's not DW's benefit for spell casters. The real boost comes from the "Twin Blade and Blunt" passive which, for some reason, also increases spell damage if you're using swords.

There's also a side bonus of getting to equip an additional set bonus piece beyond what Staff allows, and hence pick up some extra magicka, or recovery or whatever you choose to equip for.

Duel weild increases spell damage a good amount long before unlocking twin blade and blunt. Check it out for yourself I was skeptical at first but now I'm DW for life yo

I used to dual weild on my sorc and nightblade, and templar even. The huge spell power seemed worth it but in reality it's not, especially if you are a ranged caster
1. Destro attacks have range, additional effects and hit harder and can be easily weaved in with spells in both melee and ranged situations.
2. No melee weapon will crit as hard as a destro staff. My sorc with 2105 spell power crits for 14k+ but my DK with 2.6k weapon power and 2h will not even reach the 10k mark, unless stealthed and hitting from behind.
3. Casters which are ranged for the most part will have troubles generating ultimate steadily as you would need to get to melee range to hit them with the weapon. Spells don't generate ultimate and blocking/healing is situational at best and thus is not a reliable ultimate source.

Just these few things made me turn down my dual weild build dispite it's high spell damage/extra item for sets. The losses far outweigh the benefits IMO.

But for different builds it can work well.

The question shouldn't be dual-wield vs. destro. It should be dual-wield vs. resto vs. destro. A destruction staff makes limited sense for a magicka nightblade.

1. Light and heavy attacks with a resto staff does the same damage as a destruction staff. So if you want to weave light attacks, you can do so with a resto.
2. The magicka nightblade has awesome class abilities that are superior to what the destro staff offers. Funnel Health is a far superior single-target spammable attack--similar damage for much lower cost and lots of healing on the side. Sap Essence's self-healing makes the "stand in the middle of the crowd and AoE" tactic much more survivable, and it grants the 20% spell power buff. Mark Target is a better debuff than the one offered by the staff. There is simply nothing that the destruction staff offers in terms of abilities that is appealing, in light of what you already have in your class trees.
3. Nightblades are the only class without a class shield. The resto ward fills this gap.
4. Resto staves do generic Magic Damage. All of the magicka nightblade's class abilities do Magic Damage. Whereas if you used a destruction staff, you'll be splitting your damage between Elemental and Magic. With a resto staff, you can put all your champion points into one damage type.

You don't have to be a healer to use a resto staff. For nightblades, it's a perfectly fine offensive weapon that allows for weaving and warding and is a far better fit than the destruction staff.

Sap Essence's self-healing makes the "stand in the middle of the crowd and AoE" tactic much more survivable.

Sorry to take the discussion off track, but does Sap Essence actually self-heal? I know it used to, but now the tooltip says it heals nearby allies, and I don't seem to be regaining any health myself when I use it...

Czeri wrote: »

Sap Essence's self-healing makes the "stand in the middle of the crowd and AoE" tactic much more survivable.

Sorry to take the discussion off track, but does Sap Essence actually self-heal? I know it used to, but now the tooltip says it heals nearby allies, and I don't seem to be regaining any health myself when I use it...

Yes, it heals yourself as well. And it heals even if there are no targets nearby (enemy targets just add a bonus to the healing). Sometimes, in a pinch, when I really need health and my potions are on cooldown, I'll cast Sap a few times just for the healing.

code65536 wrote: »

The question shouldn't be dual-wield vs. destro. It should be dual-wield vs. resto vs. destro. A destruction staff makes limited sense for a magicka nightblade.

1. Light and heavy attacks with a resto staff does the same damage as a destruction staff. So if you want to weave light attacks, you can do so with a resto.
2. The magicka nightblade has awesome class abilities that are superior to what the destro staff offers. Funnel Health is a far superior single-target spammable attack--similar damage for much lower cost and lots of healing on the side. Sap Essence's self-healing makes the "stand in the middle of the crowd and AoE" tactic much more survivable, and it grants the 20% spell power buff. Mark Target is a better debuff than the one offered by the staff. There is simply nothing that the destruction staff offers in terms of abilities that is appealing, in light of what you already have in your class trees.
3. Nightblades are the only class without a class shield. The resto ward fills this gap.
4. Resto staves do generic Magic Damage. All of the magicka nightblade's class abilities do Magic Damage. Whereas if you used a destruction staff, you'll be splitting your damage between Elemental and Magic. With a resto staff, you can put all your champion points into one damage type.

You don't have to be a healer to use a resto staff. For nightblades, it's a perfectly fine offensive weapon that allows for weaving and warding and is a far better fit than the destruction staff.

First of all lightning staff > fire/frost staff > resto staff in terms of light attack dmg
2 sometimes force pulse due to the fact its a triple damaging attack is better since it can proc stuff like nereineth/scathing mage easier
3 you dont need a damage shield also healing ward shield is pretty crappy tbh
4 the secondary effects and passives from destro are much better than resto
Resto stopped being good after they changed circle of life

code65536 wrote: »

The question shouldn't be dual-wield vs. destro. It should be dual-wield vs. resto vs. destro. A destruction staff makes limited sense for a magicka nightblade.

1. Light and heavy attacks with a resto staff does the same damage as a destruction staff. So if you want to weave light attacks, you can do so with a resto.
2. The magicka nightblade has awesome class abilities that are superior to what the destro staff offers. Funnel Health is a far superior single-target spammable attack--similar damage for much lower cost and lots of healing on the side. Sap Essence's self-healing makes the "stand in the middle of the crowd and AoE" tactic much more survivable, and it grants the 20% spell power buff. Mark Target is a better debuff than the one offered by the staff. There is simply nothing that the destruction staff offers in terms of abilities that is appealing, in light of what you already have in your class trees.
3. Nightblades are the only class without a class shield. The resto ward fills this gap.
4. Resto staves do generic Magic Damage. All of the magicka nightblade's class abilities do Magic Damage. Whereas if you used a destruction staff, you'll be splitting your damage between Elemental and Magic. With a resto staff, you can put all your champion points into one damage type.

You don't have to be a healer to use a resto staff. For nightblades, it's a perfectly fine offensive weapon that allows for weaving and warding and is a far better fit than the destruction staff.

Flame reach? It's a nice knockback.. Crushing shock plus some nice Passives.

Leon119 wrote: »

First of all lightning staff > fire/frost staff > resto staff in terms of light attack dmg

This is simply incorrect, and demonstrably so with a simple experiment.

I crafted four VR9 staves, non-set, all identical except for the type, and light-attacked the VR5 senche tigers in Reaper's March.

• Inferno staff: 1032 non-crit damage per light attack
• Lightning staff: 1032 non-crit damage per light attack
• Ice staff: 1032 non-crit damage per light attack
• Resto staff: 1120 non-crit damage per light attack

All four staves--identical in every way except for the type--do the exact same amount of damage per light attack (once you factor out my 8.7% Magic Damage bonus from CP, the resto's light attacks are the same as the others). That's because light attacks are governed entirely by your spell power and any buffs/debuffs for a particular damage type.

Leon119 wrote: »

2 sometimes force pulse due to the fact its a triple damaging attack is better since it can proc stuff like nereineth/scathing mage easier

Still not a good reason to use it.

• Funnel Health: 5102 Magic Damage (tooltip) for 602 Magicka cost. 8.5 dmg/cost
• Force Shock: 1442x3=4326 (tooltip) for 1575 Magicka cost. 2.8 dmg/cost

What few perks there are to using Force Shock doesn't come remotely close to making up for its huge shortcomings.

Leon119 wrote: »

3 you dont need a damage shield also healing ward shield is pretty crappy tbh

Especially when soloing content, like taking down a portal solo in the Imperial Sewers, being able to spam shields is a good way to stay alive. Also, Ward Ally is the superior morph, not Healing Ward, since there is no guarantee that you'll get the HW on yourself, whereas WA guarantees that you'll always get the ward for yourself. Magicka nightblades already get more than enough healing from their attacks--what they need is a bubble that gives their Funnels and Saps time to work.

Leon119 wrote: »

4 the secondary effects and passives from destro are much better than resto
Resto stopped being good after they changed circle of life

No. The passives from destruction staves are pretty mediocre for the magblades. The passives that affect abilities are moot since, frankly, the destruction staff abilities are inferior to the magblade's class abilities. And the passives that affect heavy attacks are largely moot since generally people don't heavy attack unless it's to regenerate magicka, in which case, the resto staff's passives are actually better. And there are no passives for light attacks.


And there's still the issue of Champion Points. Why split your CP between two different damage types? If you stack heavily in Thaumaturge (as you should as a magblade), the resto staff looks even more appealing.

code65536 wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

First of all lightning staff > fire/frost staff > resto staff in terms of light attack dmg

This is simply incorrect, and demonstrably so with a simple experiment.

I crafted four VR9 staves, non-set, all identical except for the type, and light-attacked the VR5 senche tigers in Reaper's March.

• Inferno staff: 1032 non-crit damage per light attack
• Lightning staff: 1032 non-crit damage per light attack
• Ice staff: 1032 non-crit damage per light attack
• Resto staff: 1120 non-crit damage per light attack

All four staves--identical in every way except for the type--do the exact same amount of damage per light attack (once you factor out my 8.7% Magic Damage bonus from CP, the resto's light attacks are the same as the others). That's because light attacks are governed entirely by your spell power and any buffs/debuffs for a particular damage type.

Leon119 wrote: »

2 sometimes force pulse due to the fact its a triple damaging attack is better since it can proc stuff like nereineth/scathing mage easier

Still not a good reason to use it.

• Funnel Health: 5102 Magic Damage (tooltip) for 602 Magicka cost. 8.5 dmg/cost
• Force Shock: 1442x3=4326 (tooltip) for 1575 Magicka cost. 2.8 dmg/cost

What few perks there are to using Force Shock doesn't come remotely close to making up for its huge shortcomings.

Leon119 wrote: »

3 you dont need a damage shield also healing ward shield is pretty crappy tbh

Especially when soloing content, like taking down a portal solo in the Imperial Sewers, being able to spam shields is a good way to stay alive. Also, Ward Ally is the superior morph, not Healing Ward, since there is no guarantee that you'll get the HW on yourself, whereas WA guarantees that you'll always get the ward for yourself. Magicka nightblades already get more than enough healing from their attacks--what they need is a bubble that gives their Funnels and Saps time to work.

Leon119 wrote: »

4 the secondary effects and passives from destro are much better than resto
Resto stopped being good after they changed circle of life

No. The passives from destruction staves are pretty mediocre for the magblades. The passives that affect abilities are moot since, frankly, the destruction staff abilities are inferior to the magblade's class abilities. And the passives that affect heavy attacks are largely moot since generally people don't heavy attack unless it's to regenerate magicka, in which case, the resto staff's passives are actually better. And there are no passives for light attacks.


And there's still the issue of Champion Points. Why split your CP between two different damage types? If you stack heavily in Thaumaturge (as you should as a magblade), the resto staff looks even more appealing.

Hmm. Interesting.

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Ahhh an destruction staff NB would be fun

Magicka DD NB is it, I can tell you, at least for the PvE side of the game. Maybe it won't ever be the most powerful DD, but it is competitive (and that's enough), adds some support and almost always running around with +40% movement speed lets you laugh over red circles.

I could never understand the affection of the community for stamina NBs and stamina builds in general (but ok, this is personal taste), because I damned love the NB magicka playstyle.

Flameheart wrote: »

Paazhahdrimaak wrote: »

Ahhh an destruction staff NB would be fun

It is, I can tell you, at least for the PvE side of the game. Maybe it won't ever be the most powerful DD, but it is competitive (and that's enough), adds some support and almost always running around with +40% movement speed lets you laugh over red circles.

I could never understand the affection of the community for stamina NBs and stamina builds in general (but ok, this is personal taste), because I damned love the NB magicka playstyle.

Agree, it's a fast, fun build.