Wrecking Blow

leepalmer95 · September 2015

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Did you not get the memo, Zorn? Fine, I'll go through it with you.

All of the listed abilities are utility, and their effects lie in that, not dps. DKs have great tanking abilities and crowd control, which no other class sports. I could go ahead and say Sorcerers desperately need WB as well, as they do not have good dps moves... All moves are extremely situational, and definitely not spammable. Yes, even Crystal Frags.

But let's regard magicka DKs. Where is my Wrecking Blow? My whip sure doesn't hit for 13k. What justifies magicka users not having such an enormously broken skill? Because they are using ridiculously overpowered light armor? Seeing the problem here?

Some minor things:
Talons are a root, a pretty potent one. Also, choking morph mitigates and doesn't need magicka scaling. Flappy wings, I refer to Dragon Wings here. Why again are DKs allowed to completely negate ranged combat?

Willy:
Zeni could go ahead and include WB as a sixth skill in a line. EVERY weapon line. My point is that if Wrecking Blow is fine, why shouldn't everyone have it?

zornyan wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Did you not get the memo, Zorn? Fine, I'll go through it with you.

All of the listed abilities are utility, and their effects lie in that, not dps. DKs have great tanking abilities and crowd control, which no other class sports. I could go ahead and say Sorcerers desperately need WB as well, as they do not have good dps moves... All moves are extremely situational, and definitely not spammable. Yes, even Crystal Frags.

But let's regard magicka DKs. Where is my Wrecking Blow? My whip sure doesn't hit for 13k. What justifies magicka users not having such an enormously broken skill? Because they are using ridiculously overpowered light armor? Seeing the problem here?

Some minor things:
Talons are a root, a pretty potent one. Also, choking morph mitigates and doesn't need magicka scaling. Flappy wings, I refer to Dragon Wings here. Why again are DKs allowed to completely negate ranged combat?

Willy:
Zeni could go ahead and include WB as a sixth skill in a line. EVERY weapon line. My point is that if Wrecking Blow is fine, why shouldn't everyone have it?

Great utilities? Sure! But they aren't going to kill anyone, they still don't have a dps move, like nightblades and templars do, magika builds don't have wrecking blow, they have 10k heavy fire staff attacks instead, they have a multitude of ranged abilities that hit just as hard if not harder, that can also safely be used from range.

Sorcerers have crystal frags, a move that hits harder, from range, and can be insta cast with virtually zero magika cost. You're magika dk can use a heavy fire staff attack with molten armaments, which have been shown to hit up to 10-15, not to.mention the light armor giving passives to spell penetration.

Why does everyone on this forum use sorc's as a defence?

Lets not compare a class skill to a weapon skill? Frags can be dodged, reflected blocked and interupted so easy, it's slow, can only be cast on proc otherwise its useless.

Wb, can't be dodged normally, it can't be interrupted, you can block it but one will follow nearly instatly, it buff's its own dmg..?

Heavy fire attacks for decent dmg sure, not even close to a snipe or wb though, they take twice as long to charge and again can be dodged, blocked, reflected etc... They only hit 10-15k on on people with light armour and those are crits. They don't cc and buff it's own dmg either, this isn't comparable to wb.

I'm not sure what exactly your defending wb with here?

alt3rEgo · September 2015

Don't forget animation canceling, multiple WB hits when in stealth and not detected or my all time favorite: Beeing hit by WB from invisible enemies.

zornyan · September 2015

Right crystal frags, can you interrupt the insta cast? No, can it do superior damage to wrecking blow? Yes.
Does the insta cast not also have it's damaged buffed, like a second wrecking blow whilst costing half the regular magika? Yes!

I've fought sorcs that could spam the insta frags every second or two at most, so just as quick if not quicker than wrecking blow, whilst that's happening they are also casting other dps/debuffs on you.

MightyHarken · September 2015

How about you all shut up and leave the game as it is?

Saint314Louis1985 · September 2015

I play on console so I havent played the IC update but....

In my class (stam DK), I really dont know of any option other than WB for damage output comparable to other classes. Unless you would rather me use focused aim as my primary. Im not an expert on ESO by any means but I do consider myself to be much better than average at PVP.

WB is my number one attack skill. I also use fossilize and/or stampede to CC/snare my target to stage my assault. If you go flying in the air, I then get back into range to use WB, med. attack then executioner til they die or escape. Notice the use of 4 different attack, not just WB spam. I use dragon leap in the tough fights also. This is before the IC update. I can imagine it probably takes more than that with the new cyrodil buffs.

winding up a giant two handed sword that can only be used in melee range and not distanced like snipe and frags should actually hit harder than both in my opinion.

NBs can go invisible. There is your defense. You are suppose to attack in a fury and stealth back to darkness. Do not try to tank a 2H. Alot of your stealth attacks hit just as hard as WB.

Sorcs can bolt out of range and blast you with one of their high powered attack while you are trying to find where they went. If you are fighting a shielded sorc it takes atleast two consecutive WBs just to get shield down (with about 3200 weapon damage and max stam).

Templars can beam the crap out of you. Cant even block it have to dodge roll out of range and get wrecked the hole time.

As a stam DK I defend WB with CC and dodge rolls.

If you keep distance from a WB its useless. Sorcs & NBs are supposed to have light defenses that means they should play at a distance/stealth. If you want to fight in melee range then dont be surprised when you get put on your ass by WB. Which is the way it should be IMO.

And to those that whine "I dont have enough stam as a magicka build". try having all dodge rolls, blocks, CC breaks and attack skills come out of the same pool like us stam users.

Edited to say that after all this I do agree with the CC immunity 'bug" being the only issue with the skill. I agree that should be fixed.

Kobaal · September 2015

leepalmer95 · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Right crystal frags, can you interrupt the insta cast? No, can it do superior damage to wrecking blow? Yes.
Does the insta cast not also have it's damaged buffed, like a second wrecking blow whilst costing half the regular magika? Yes!

I've fought sorcs that could spam the insta frags every second or two at most, so just as quick if not quicker than wrecking blow, whilst that's happening they are also casting other dps/debuffs on you.

And again will you stop comparing a class skill to a weapon skill? There not the same, ones a projectile, can be blocked, dodged, and reflected, its also obvious when it's going to be cast.

So your saying wb is ok because sorc have frags which they can't spam like wb?

Good argument.

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

I play on console so I havent played the IC update but....

In my class (stam DK), I really dont know of any option other than WB for damage output comparable to other classes. Unless you would rather me use focused aim as my primary. Im not an expert on ESO by any means but I do consider myself to be much better than average at PVP.

WB is my number one attack skill. I also use fossilize and/or stampede to CC/snare my target to stage my assault. If you go flying in the air, I then get back into range to use WB, med. attack then executioner til they die or escape. Notice the use of 4 different attack, not just WB spam. I use dragon leap in the tough fights also. This is before the IC update. I can imagine it probably takes more than that with the new cyrodil buffs.

winding up a giant two handed sword that can only be used in melee range and not distanced like snipe and frags should actually hit harder than both in my opinion.

NBs can go invisible. There is your defense. You are suppose to attack in a fury and stealth back to darkness. Do not try to tank a 2H. Alot of your stealth attacks hit just as hard as WB.

Sorcs can bolt out of range and blast you with one of their high powered attack while you are trying to find where they went. If you are fighting a shielded sorc it takes atleast two consecutive WBs just to get shield down (with about 3200 weapon damage and max stam).

Templars can beam the crap out of you. Cant even block it have to dodge roll out of range and get wrecked the hole time.

As a stam DK I defend WB with CC and dodge rolls.

If you keep distance from a WB its useless. Sorcs & NBs are supposed to have light defenses that means they should play at a distance/stealth. If you want to fight in melee range then dont be surprised when you get put on your ass by WB. Which is the way it should be IMO.

And to those that whine "I dont have enough stam as a magicka build". try having all dodge rolls, blocks, CC breaks and attack skills come out of the same pool like us stam users.

Edited to say that after all this I do agree with the CC immunity 'bug" being the only issue with the skill. I agree that should be fixed.

Apart from snipe, range really doesn't matter because of gap closers.

zornyan · September 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Right crystal frags, can you interrupt the insta cast? No, can it do superior damage to wrecking blow? Yes.
Does the insta cast not also have it's damaged buffed, like a second wrecking blow whilst costing half the regular magika? Yes!

I've fought sorcs that could spam the insta frags every second or two at most, so just as quick if not quicker than wrecking blow, whilst that's happening they are also casting other dps/debuffs on you.

And again will you stop comparing a class skill to a weapon skill? There not the same, ones a projectile, can be blocked, dodged, and reflected, its also obvious when it's going to be cast.

So your saying wb is ok because sorc have frags which they can't spam like wb?

Good argument.

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

I play on console so I havent played the IC update but....

In my class (stam DK), I really dont know of any option other than WB for damage output comparable to other classes. Unless you would rather me use focused aim as my primary. Im not an expert on ESO by any means but I do consider myself to be much better than average at PVP.

WB is my number one attack skill. I also use fossilize and/or stampede to CC/snare my target to stage my assault. If you go flying in the air, I then get back into range to use WB, med. attack then executioner til they die or escape. Notice the use of 4 different attack, not just WB spam. I use dragon leap in the tough fights also. This is before the IC update. I can imagine it probably takes more than that with the new cyrodil buffs.

winding up a giant two handed sword that can only be used in melee range and not distanced like snipe and frags should actually hit harder than both in my opinion.

NBs can go invisible. There is your defense. You are suppose to attack in a fury and stealth back to darkness. Do not try to tank a 2H. Alot of your stealth attacks hit just as hard as WB.

Sorcs can bolt out of range and blast you with one of their high powered attack while you are trying to find where they went. If you are fighting a shielded sorc it takes atleast two consecutive WBs just to get shield down (with about 3200 weapon damage and max stam).

Templars can beam the crap out of you. Cant even block it have to dodge roll out of range and get wrecked the hole time.

As a stam DK I defend WB with CC and dodge rolls.

If you keep distance from a WB its useless. Sorcs & NBs are supposed to have light defenses that means they should play at a distance/stealth. If you want to fight in melee range then dont be surprised when you get put on your ass by WB. Which is the way it should be IMO.

And to those that whine "I dont have enough stam as a magicka build". try having all dodge rolls, blocks, CC breaks and attack skills come out of the same pool like us stam users.

Edited to say that after all this I do agree with the CC immunity 'bug" being the only issue with the skill. I agree that should be fixed.

Apart from snipe, range really doesn't matter because of gap closers.

So all weapon skills should be far weaker than class skills, that would destroy stam sorcs, stam dk's, and to a degree stam templars as well.

Just get over it, crystal frags is still more powerful, you mean to tell me it's more obvious to see someones hands turn purple, than to see someone pull a huge sword back like their ready to smack you with a 9 iron?

Which can also be dodged/blocked and walked through, just like frags can!

Also when it proc's, its instantly cast, it doesn't have the same 1.5 second obviously huge windup that wrecking blow does, and it can be used from range, which wrecking blow can't.

And frags CAN be spammed. Good sorcs I know have it proc'd nearly 100% of the time, because they are constantly casting low magika cost spells to proc it, I've fought GOOD sorcerers that have hit me with crystal frag after crystal frag after crystal frag for the entire fight.

It also cannot be interrupted when used in this manner, it took knocks you down, it too buffs itself, and it also cuts it's cost in half.

Rayste · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Right crystal frags, can you interrupt the insta cast? No, can it do superior damage to wrecking blow? Yes.
Does the insta cast not also have it's damaged buffed, like a second wrecking blow whilst costing half the regular magika? Yes!

I've fought sorcs that could spam the insta frags every second or two at most, so just as quick if not quicker than wrecking blow, whilst that's happening they are also casting other dps/debuffs on you.

And again will you stop comparing a class skill to a weapon skill? There not the same, ones a projectile, can be blocked, dodged, and reflected, its also obvious when it's going to be cast.

So your saying wb is ok because sorc have frags which they can't spam like wb?

Good argument.

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

I play on console so I havent played the IC update but....

In my class (stam DK), I really dont know of any option other than WB for damage output comparable to other classes. Unless you would rather me use focused aim as my primary. Im not an expert on ESO by any means but I do consider myself to be much better than average at PVP.

WB is my number one attack skill. I also use fossilize and/or stampede to CC/snare my target to stage my assault. If you go flying in the air, I then get back into range to use WB, med. attack then executioner til they die or escape. Notice the use of 4 different attack, not just WB spam. I use dragon leap in the tough fights also. This is before the IC update. I can imagine it probably takes more than that with the new cyrodil buffs.

winding up a giant two handed sword that can only be used in melee range and not distanced like snipe and frags should actually hit harder than both in my opinion.

NBs can go invisible. There is your defense. You are suppose to attack in a fury and stealth back to darkness. Do not try to tank a 2H. Alot of your stealth attacks hit just as hard as WB.

Sorcs can bolt out of range and blast you with one of their high powered attack while you are trying to find where they went. If you are fighting a shielded sorc it takes atleast two consecutive WBs just to get shield down (with about 3200 weapon damage and max stam).

Templars can beam the crap out of you. Cant even block it have to dodge roll out of range and get wrecked the hole time.

As a stam DK I defend WB with CC and dodge rolls.

If you keep distance from a WB its useless. Sorcs & NBs are supposed to have light defenses that means they should play at a distance/stealth. If you want to fight in melee range then dont be surprised when you get put on your ass by WB. Which is the way it should be IMO.

And to those that whine "I dont have enough stam as a magicka build". try having all dodge rolls, blocks, CC breaks and attack skills come out of the same pool like us stam users.

Edited to say that after all this I do agree with the CC immunity 'bug" being the only issue with the skill. I agree that should be fixed.

Apart from snipe, range really doesn't matter because of gap closers.

So all weapon skills should be far weaker than class skills, that would destroy stam sorcs, stam dk's, and to a degree stam templars as well.

Just get over it, crystal frags is still more powerful, you mean to tell me it's more obvious to see someones hands turn purple, than to see someone pull a huge sword back like their ready to smack you with a 9 iron?

Which can also be dodged/blocked and walked through, just like frags can!

Also when it proc's, its instantly cast, it doesn't have the same 1.5 second obviously huge windup that wrecking blow does, and it can be used from range, which wrecking blow can't.

And frags CAN be spammed. Good sorcs I know have it proc'd nearly 100% of the time, because they are constantly casting low magika cost spells to proc it, I've fought GOOD sorcerers that have hit me with crystal frag after crystal frag after crystal frag for the entire fight.

It also cannot be interrupted when used in this manner, it took knocks you down, it too buffs itself, and it also cuts it's cost in half.

Wrecking blow is indeed overtuned. This post makes me sad. So much false qq and meme.

Vangy · September 2015

Uhmmmm...

So if I can't use Wb that leaves me with flame breath.... Talons.... Whip(magicka based)... Or bows and 1 handers which are pretty much useless for single target..

T.T

Please don't kill my pve dk. I already gave up tanking since block nerf for fun Wb spam... Please don't force me to wear a dress. Pwetty pleaseeee?

Vangy · September 2015

Also Wb is a stamina based skill on a 2h bar. Why is this important? A 2hander bar is exclusively single target (cleave sucks) as far as I'm aware. It has no heals. Rally u say... Hahaha

As a stamina class especially as a dk you have 0 self healing. Goodbye my sweet green dragon blood. Yes this is also nerfed to the ground. Vigor heals better than that.

Also as a stamina class ur offensive and defensive skills are all based on stamina ( ie a shared resource pool)
On my magicka Templar I block/dodge roll then when stamina is low, I go on the offensive and make the other guy block and dodge roll for a bit. On my dk..... I have to be very careful about what I block or dodge roll because I need to dps with this resource too. Not to mention my Templar can just heals because worthwhile heals are.... Magicka based!!!

So fix all the other issues concerning stamina classes and then we can discuss wrecking blow.

zornyan · September 2015

Vangy wrote: »

Also Wb is a stamina based skill on a 2h bar. Why is this important? A 2hander bar is exclusively single target (cleave sucks) as far as I'm aware. It has no heals. Rally u say... Hahaha

As a stamina class especially as a dk you have 0 self healing. Goodbye my sweet green dragon blood. Yes this is also nerfed to the ground. Vigor heals better than that.

Also as a stamina class ur offensive and defensive skills are all based on stamina ( ie a shared resource pool)
On my magicka Templar I block/dodge roll then when stamina is low, I go on the offensive and make the other guy block and dodge roll for a bit. On my dk..... I have to be very careful about what I block or dodge roll because I need to dps with this resource too. Not to mention my Templar can just heals because worthwhile heals are.... Magicka based!!!

So fix all the other issues concerning stamina classes and then we can discuss wrecking blow.

This! And this again (except for coming back to wrecking blow lol)

Magika based characters seem to moan so damm much about not having enough stamina! "we only have 12k stamina!" then say.

Well what about a stam based build that only has 20? Yet with that 20k we have to.

Defend
Heal
Use offensive skills
Dodge

Every single maneuver takes stamina, where as a magika build can make use of both pools.

My stamplar although dealing great dps had one issue, sustainability. Soon as my stamina pool was drained that was it. I couldn't heal or attack or do anything to defend myself.

My paladin/magika templar switches between each pool, I can use puncturing sweeps then sword and board moves to block whilst my magika regenerates, if one pool is drained I can swap bars and make use of the other when necessary.

It's far easier. So yes magika builds you may not be able to block for half as long as a stam build, but you can easily block and then use your magika pool to put the hurt on someone, whilst the whole time your stamina is regenerating.

Vangy · September 2015

@zornyan thank god someone else sees my point of view. Lately I've been getting real sick of the nerf wrecking blow QQ whiney posts. Everyone needs to go make a stamina class and start spamming Wb and see how far this gets them. I assure u after than u will never make another nerf Wb thread ever again.

zornyan · September 2015

@Vangy that would be far too simple and make far far too much sense. I'd wager 90% of the posters complaining are sorcerers or Nb's that can't gank anymore.

Vangy · September 2015

People need to see the class as a whole. Not just cherry pick a single skill and cry op nerf. Stamina classes get gimped in so many ways they deserve a strong skill like Wb. The perma cc issue from Wb needs to be fixed tho that isn't an issue with Wb. It's something wrong with cc immunity not triggering properly

willymchilybily · September 2015

So much nonsense. I swear some people turn a blind eye to what they don't want to see. I doubt some even comprehend the dynamics of the game beyond the microcosm of their own character?

Point 1: - Stamina Vs Magicka

Some Classes (sorcerer and DK) do not have Stamina morphed class skills that are "Spammable Damage." Hence the need for stamina based weapons to supplement this requirement. Conversely All classes do have Magicka based spammable damage moves, as magicka is more heavily catered for in class skills. This is why people are comparing Class and weapons skills and why it is valid to do so.

This disparity leads to the need for Bow (the only ranged stamina weapon) to have a high damage spammable move. And one of the close range weapons to also have the same. 1H+S is hardly appropriate being so Tanky and DW already gets advantages from set bonuses and extra slot, and they already gave it the best stamina AOE

So it makes sense to put this on the Two Hander for balance reasons.

bare in mind before you complain too much about weapons and balance and ignore classes you may as well argue stamina weapons need a healing staff equivalent or staffs need a sword and shield equivalent. it doesnt work like that. it would upset the balance and diversity of the gameplay.stop trying to make everything generic and make comparisons that don't account for the bigger picture

Point 2: - WB itself

The only issue of wrecking blow is it can lock someone into constant knockdown animations because there is a window from when the knock down animation finishes and the CC immunity starts that can allow another (very well timed) WB to land.

As for the skill having a knock down. A lot of damage skills do CC or apply debuff effects,

their usefulness depends on who you are facing, snipe gives major defile, destructive clench is ranged but also knocks back and dots (or roots etc depending on destro staff). Concealed weapon debuffs with major fracture as well as a stun and setting off balance if invisible, jabs has knock back and crit buff.This list goes on.

The damage it self is comparable to other weapons (its actually less damage then snipe on tooltip) and other CLASS skills which as i said do need to be considered because the whole point is that the move accounts for what some stamina classes lack.

The simple fact is if WB was so OP then nightblades would use it over concealed weapon. Templars would use it over Jabs.

@Lord-Otto - the answer to your question is included above but i have spelled it out below if you are wanting more specifics

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Willy:
Zeni could go ahead and include WB as a sixth skill in a line. EVERY weapon line. My point is that if Wrecking Blow is fine, why shouldn't everyone have it?

firstly some have better moves than it. secondly you would replace a weapon utility that is making up a specific roll. Would PVE players want to have a wrecking block on destruction staff over impulse? would they want to forgo the destructive touch's range for wrecking blows damage but have to get in close with their light armour and have a cast time whilst waiting for the enemy to counter/block/stun them? the skills are catering to the classes that use them and how they are designed to be played.

sword and shield skill line is Tanky. it can reduce damage recieved whilst blocking and reduced the cost of blocking. should it be also allowed to put out the damage of a WB?

dual wield gives additional set among other bonuses. You quite often see some mage using DW just for the extra slot etc. Should it have a high damage move when it already buffs weapon power and allows use of an additional set?

this is why not every weapon has it. It Would become OP in the wrong weapon skill set. or actually ruin a weapon's intended role making the weapon worse. and if you started adding more skills to weapon trees every weapon would get a heal, a buff, an AOE A gap closer, a CC move and so on. It would ruin the game's diversity, which is key to a good MMO

Leandor · September 2015

Vangy wrote: »

People need to see the class as a whole. Not just cherry pick a single skill and cry op nerf. Stamina classes get gimped in so many ways they deserve a strong skill like Wb. The perma cc issue from Wb needs to be fixed tho that isn't an issue with Wb. It's something wrong with cc immunity not triggering properly

As I said before, wrecking blow can stay exactly as is, but it needs to take you out of stealth during the wind-up and the damage needs to be registered upon the skill connecting with the target, not upon button press to initiate it.

You are not a special snowflake that gets the one and only cast-time skill in the game that is, for all intents and purposes, un-dodge-able. Don't even dare to bring up that pathetic excuse of "you just need to know how to dodge it". Every single other skill can be dodged by just dodging, irrespective of direction or LOS checks. Not WB. That one, you need to dodge through the perpetrator in hopes he does not turn around quick enough to get you anyways.

When do people finally understand that it is not about the damage or about the inability to interrupt it or about the undodgeability or about the stealth synergy, but about the fact that it is all of the above together. That makes that single skill stand out from every other available skill in this game, class- or weapon-based.

Fine, keep your damage. Let others dodge it, then. Fine, keep uninterruptability. Make it pull you out of stealth, then.

Vangy · September 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

People need to see the class as a whole. Not just cherry pick a single skill and cry op nerf. Stamina classes get gimped in so many ways they deserve a strong skill like Wb. The perma cc issue from Wb needs to be fixed tho that isn't an issue with Wb. It's something wrong with cc immunity not triggering properly

As I said before, wrecking blow can stay exactly as is, but it needs to take you out of stealth during the wind-up and the damage needs to be registered upon the skill connecting with the target, not upon button press to initiate it.

You are not a special snowflake that gets the one and only cast-time skill in the game that is, for all intents and purposes, un-dodge-able. Don't even dare to bring up that pathetic excuse of "you just need to know how to dodge it". Every single other skill can be dodged by just dodging, irrespective of direction or LOS checks. Not WB. That one, you need to dodge through the perpetrator in hopes he does not turn around quick enough to get you anyways.

When do people finally understand that it is not about the damage or about the inability to interrupt it or about the undodgeability or about the stealth synergy, but about the fact that it is all of the above together. That makes that single skill stand out from every other available skill in this game, class- or weapon-based.

Fine, keep your damage. Let others dodge it, then. Fine, keep uninterruptability. Make it pull you out of stealth, then.

The QQ is strong with this one.... Notice my initial post was about pve. Also notice I said nothing about Wb and stealth. Don't care if Wb takes you out of stealth or not. My post was and is directed at people crying nerf Wb damage too strong QQ. Pardon me for being unclear. But here's to making this absolutely clear. Me no care if Wb cast removes stealth. Me want my Wb to hit for 20k nao and forever. Here's my turn to QQ

Vangy · September 2015

Also if someone can sneak up right behind ur butt and cast Wb Without u noticing anything going on......

Vangy · September 2015

I mean maybe once in a hundred deaths maybe.... If this happens to u on a regular basis.... I suggest more awareness?

zornyan · September 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

People need to see the class as a whole. Not just cherry pick a single skill and cry op nerf. Stamina classes get gimped in so many ways they deserve a strong skill like Wb. The perma cc issue from Wb needs to be fixed tho that isn't an issue with Wb. It's something wrong with cc immunity not triggering properly

As I said before, wrecking blow can stay exactly as is, but it needs to take you out of stealth during the wind-up and the damage needs to be registered upon the skill connecting with the target, not upon button press to initiate it.

You are not a special snowflake that gets the one and only cast-time skill in the game that is, for all intents and purposes, un-dodge-able. Don't even dare to bring up that pathetic excuse of "you just need to know how to dodge it". Every single other skill can be dodged by just dodging, irrespective of direction or LOS checks. Not WB. That one, you need to dodge through the perpetrator in hopes he does not turn around quick enough to get you anyways.

When do people finally understand that it is not about the damage or about the inability to interrupt it or about the undodgeability or about the stealth synergy, but about the fact that it is all of the above together. That makes that single skill stand out from every other available skill in this game, class- or weapon-based.

Fine, keep your damage. Let others dodge it, then. Fine, keep uninterruptability. Make it pull you out of stealth, then.

It's not undodgeable. It really isn't, the issue is people dodge during the cast time, like the second they see the sword pull back, it's just beginning it's 1.5sec cast time.

No different than if you dodge a crystal frags right when they begin casting, you'll actually do your dodge then as you finish be hit by the frags.

That's basic common sense, you're supposed to dodge when actually being attacked, not when the enemy has just begun casting a skill...

Leandor · September 2015

@Vangy

If you don't care about stealth synergies, perfect, that is all I ask about. As opposed to the QQ you accuse me of, it is a proposal for balancing the skill, so-called "constructive feedback", a concept that may or may not be known to you.

And since you are PvE centric, you should also have no issue with making the skill behave similarly to the other cast-time skills in respect to dodging. Again, not a QQ but a "constructive feedback" on how to adjust the skill without touching your precious PvE damage number.

And since the overwhelming majority of mobs do not dodge, you don't even lose any of the beautiful red numbers popping up on your screen! How cool is that, mate!

So, instead of making the back end of a joke out of yourself by competing for buzzword master of the year, why not just be silent for a while?

zornyan wrote: »

It's not undodgeable. It really isn't, the issue is people dodge during the cast time, like the second they see the sword pull back, it's just beginning it's 1.5sec cast time.

No different than if you dodge a crystal frags right when they begin casting, you'll actually do your dodge then as you finish be hit by the frags.

That's basic common sense, you're supposed to dodge when actually being attacked, not when the enemy has just begun casting a skill...

The difference is in the window of opportunity. All other similar skills (that have a cast time), do have a much larger window of opportunity to dodge the attack. Basically, with WB you have to have the skill execution fall within the dodge animation to have a chance of dodging it (and that is iffy, in addition, due to latency).

In case of snipe, if my opponent dodges directly upon me pressing the snipe button, the snipe will go off and head into his general direction, no matter where he goes off to, but the damage will not register. So there is a definite difference for the other often cited weapon skill.

My memory tells me that it is similar for CF, but it's difficult to assess, since the number of sorcerers using CF while not instant cast is so low that a decent data base is not given, and if they try, I just use one of the unlimited number of interrupts available to me - on any and every char I am playing. Honestly, I make a hobby out of that.

willymchilybily · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

People need to see the class as a whole. Not just cherry pick a single skill and cry op nerf. Stamina classes get gimped in so many ways they deserve a strong skill like Wb. The perma cc issue from Wb needs to be fixed tho that isn't an issue with Wb. It's something wrong with cc immunity not triggering properly

As I said before, wrecking blow can stay exactly as is, but it needs to take you out of stealth during the wind-up and the damage needs to be registered upon the skill connecting with the target, not upon button press to initiate it.

You are not a special snowflake that gets the one and only cast-time skill in the game that is, for all intents and purposes, un-dodge-able. Don't even dare to bring up that pathetic excuse of "you just need to know how to dodge it". Every single other skill can be dodged by just dodging, irrespective of direction or LOS checks. Not WB. That one, you need to dodge through the perpetrator in hopes he does not turn around quick enough to get you anyways.

When do people finally understand that it is not about the damage or about the inability to interrupt it or about the undodgeability or about the stealth synergy, but about the fact that it is all of the above together. That makes that single skill stand out from every other available skill in this game, class- or weapon-based.

Fine, keep your damage. Let others dodge it, then. Fine, keep uninterruptability. Make it pull you out of stealth, then.

It's not undodgeable. It really isn't, the issue is people dodge during the cast time, like the second they see the sword pull back, it's just beginning it's 1.5sec cast time.

No different than if you dodge a crystal frags right when they begin casting, you'll actually do your dodge then as you finish be hit by the frags.

That's basic common sense, you're supposed to dodge when actually being attacked, not when the enemy has just begun casting a skill...

I have never experienced a problem dodging it either. (when ive seen it coming) I must agree with zornyan its probably more timing than being un-dodgable? Im sure some one can check/confirm this with shuffle.

Vangy · September 2015

Aww someone is angwyy. How cute. Why not read some of the other posts here that agree with Wb being fine. Also even tho I'm not pvp centric I have no trouble with Wb spammers. So instead of continuing ur QQ why not L2P?

Vangy · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

People need to see the class as a whole. Not just cherry pick a single skill and cry op nerf. Stamina classes get gimped in so many ways they deserve a strong skill like Wb. The perma cc issue from Wb needs to be fixed tho that isn't an issue with Wb. It's something wrong with cc immunity not triggering properly

As I said before, wrecking blow can stay exactly as is, but it needs to take you out of stealth during the wind-up and the damage needs to be registered upon the skill connecting with the target, not upon button press to initiate it.

You are not a special snowflake that gets the one and only cast-time skill in the game that is, for all intents and purposes, un-dodge-able. Don't even dare to bring up that pathetic excuse of "you just need to know how to dodge it". Every single other skill can be dodged by just dodging, irrespective of direction or LOS checks. Not WB. That one, you need to dodge through the perpetrator in hopes he does not turn around quick enough to get you anyways.

When do people finally understand that it is not about the damage or about the inability to interrupt it or about the undodgeability or about the stealth synergy, but about the fact that it is all of the above together. That makes that single skill stand out from every other available skill in this game, class- or weapon-based.

Fine, keep your damage. Let others dodge it, then. Fine, keep uninterruptability. Make it pull you out of stealth, then.

It's not undodgeable. It really isn't, the issue is people dodge during the cast time, like the second they see the sword pull back, it's just beginning it's 1.5sec cast time.

No different than if you dodge a crystal frags right when they begin casting, you'll actually do your dodge then as you finish be hit by the frags.

That's basic common sense, you're supposed to dodge when actually being attacked, not when the enemy has just begun casting a skill...

Also this^.

WB CAN be dodged. It's pretty easy to dodge too! So if u keep getting hit by Wb I would suggest once again... More awareness. Watch the caster. Start dodge rolling when his sword is just about to swing up. = profit

Vangy · September 2015

Or you can ignore allllllllll the x100000 posts about how wrecking blow is fine because it is easily dodged and continue with QQ Wb can't be dodged I play in fps mode so people sneak behind my bee hind and whoop my butt with Wb omg wb op nerf nerf nerf!!

Leandor · September 2015

Wow, nice display @Vangy. At least now everyone can see you for what you are, mate

zornyan · September 2015

Leandor wrote: »

@Vangy

If you don't care about stealth synergies, perfect, that is all I ask about. As opposed to the QQ you accuse me of, it is a proposal for balancing the skill, so-called "constructive feedback", a concept that may or may not be known to you.

And since you are PvE centric, you should also have no issue with making the skill behave similarly to the other cast-time skills in respect to dodging. Again, not a QQ but a "constructive feedback" on how to adjust the skill without touching your precious PvE damage number.

And since the overwhelming majority of mobs do not dodge, you don't even lose any of the beautiful red numbers popping up on your screen! How cool is that, mate!

So, instead of making the back end of a joke out of yourself by competing for buzzword master of the year, why not just be silent for a while?

zornyan wrote: »

It's not undodgeable. It really isn't, the issue is people dodge during the cast time, like the second they see the sword pull back, it's just beginning it's 1.5sec cast time.

No different than if you dodge a crystal frags right when they begin casting, you'll actually do your dodge then as you finish be hit by the frags.

That's basic common sense, you're supposed to dodge when actually being attacked, not when the enemy has just begun casting a skill...

The difference is in the window of opportunity. All other similar skills (that have a cast time), do have a much larger window of opportunity to dodge the attack. Basically, with WB you have to have the skill execution fall within the dodge animation to have a chance of dodging it (and that is iffy, in addition, due to latency).

In case of snipe, if my opponent dodges directly upon me pressing the snipe button, the snipe will go off and head into his general direction, no matter where he goes off to, but the damage will not register. So there is a definite difference for the other often cited weapon skill.

My memory tells me that it is similar for CF, but it's difficult to assess, since the number of sorcerers using CF while not instant cast is so low that a decent data base is not given, and if they try, I just use one of the unlimited number of interrupts available to me - on any and every char I am playing. Honestly, I make a hobby out of that.

Snipe is the same as c frags, if someone dodge rolled before you've finished the animation and actually fired the arrow, they would still be hit, same as c frags and wrecking blow. Obviously my point about frags is hard to prove, but with essentially ANY cast ability you need to roll to avoid the attack, not the cast. I see it all the time when using dark flare, people roll as I cast it, then they finish rolling as I 'fire' and it still hits.

But the mechanic is the same, people forget wrecking blow is cast, the actual 'hit" is a good 1.5-2secs after you see them pulling their sword back, most people dodge the second the sword is pulled back, but if you count "one thousand one" then dodge roll it'll work 100% of the time, as you'll then be rolling as he actually launches the attack

Zsymon · September 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wb shouldn't be able to buff it's own dmg either.

In case you didn't know, Empower adds weapon/spell damage, not actual damage, the tool tip is very misleading. That means with Wrecking Blow you get an extra ~6% actual damage on the next attack, not exactly overpowered.

I very much prefer Dizzying Swing, -15% damage on my enemy is much more useful in PvP.

Vangy · September 2015

Sorry I can't help myself when I see so much QQ. Makes me want to QQ too. Also I can use smiley faces and keep calling people mate too.