Wrecking Blow

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

You just confirmed what I thought, another moron spouting the same crap over and over, clearly you didn't read my post, as I've mentioned several times I don't spam wrecking blow, I stopped using it after my first days in pvp as it gets me killed more than anything,

Tell me this, if it's soooo amazing, soooo powerful and it's too expensive to block/dodge.

Why oh why everytime I ever use it I can't get a single kill? Why every time that I've ever used it it gets blocked/dodged or I get walked through? Why do I, and the people I know never get killed by it?

9/10 times wrecking blow doesn't animation cancel, it actually cancels the entire attack?

The only people in this thread moaning are the ones that need to l2p, as clearly many other millions of players are getting on just fine with blocking/dodging and avoiding the attack.

Oh and uninterruptible? So using your own cc doesn't cancel it? Using another knockdown doesn't cancel it?

Sigh...

Well if your using 2h and not using wb, unless your a nb then your going wrong.

Yes wb can be animation cancelled and yes the whole attack animation will stop. So no it's not 9/10 times it just 9/10 for you because it clear you don't know how to do it. I'd be happy to teach you.

Wb has a 5m range on it so you don't need to literally be so close to someone that they can't walk through you, the actual skill range is a lot larger than the weapon size. Hence why it hits through dodge roll unless they dodge through you.

Interruptible e.g. interrupt skills not working on it (crushing show, psn arrow) and you can't bash it, using cc or other isn't 'interrupting' that is using cc skills and them hitting first. Every other charge skill can be interrupted, hence why there is interrupt skills in the game in the first place.

Dude you are too funny... you are arguing that wrecking blow is op but giving a player a tip on how to use wrecking blow better. Yes you can weave a heavy attack into the cast time of wrecking blow, but you cannot cancel or cut short the wind up animation of wrecking blow because that will cancel the entire attack. You are trying to correct him by telling him if he uses wrecking blow he can weave in an extra heavy attack, meanwhile you are not addressing the 1.3 second cast time that cannot be cut short, and cannot be canceled. the swing animation is what you are clipping when you weave a heavy attack and yes it makes wrecking blow do more damage, but please explain your way past that cast time or address how you intend to actually hit someone who knows what they are doing. Any skill that requires a cast time in a fast paced pvp is a liability. ..the reason good players say wrecking blow is a noob skill is because pve players are used to owning with it, but they are in for a rude awakening when they encounter skilled players who are not going to stand there and be hit by the glorified heavy attack. No good player gets hit by it, ever. Most will block, or dodge but they will not get hit with it, so what does it matter that you can weave an extra attack in if you can only use the skill against bad players who will allow you to cast a skill that requires time in close range. You can't be the player getting hit by wrecking blow and call that guy hitting you with it a scrub....you literally just went on about how much skill it takes to weave in a heavy attack. ....lol...you people are too funny.

You can't properly 'dodge' a wb, only if you dodge through the player otherwise it will hit.

You cancel the animation of the wb, your sword moves down then your character will just start a heavy attack. People don't even expect the wb.

Yes someone can block but a wb+HA weave will completely drain any magicka users stamina, a simple cc is an easy kill.

It's really not difficult to wb someone... even simply cc'ing them will let you hit them with that 1s cast time... it's not difficult.

The wb dmg needs nerfing and it shouldn't buff it's own dmg.

You can dodge wb if you have the timing down, which is simple...a basic "1 one thousand" count and dodge to the side from when you see the sword drop, will clear you from harm. Do not roll backwards, you are still in the danger zone there. Most players who try to dodge, dodge too soon in the animation and if the caster turns to the new location then you are scewed. Unlike instant cast skills wb animation doesn't start till the

Its not the wb casters fault some magic user decided that he didn't need stamina. This is a common fallacy in the player meta, that magic users don't need stamina, if you plan on blocking, rolling and breaking free then maybe you should invest in just a little stamina. All my magic characters have some points into stamina, more so then health I need to be able to defend myself. There is a whole CP line in the warrior tree dedicated to reducing the stamina cost for block, I suggest magic users who don't want to lose any magic resource look there

Yes it's difficult to hit someone who knows what they are doing with wb. Most skilled players know what the skill is, know the timing on it, have already popped their immovable potion, probably hit evasion and are ready to retaliate after your failed attempt at heavy attacking them.

I disagree with lowering damage on this skill for the same reason you disagree with nerfing frags.

Its called an empower buff (I know you know that) it boost your next attack regardless of what it is. In fact every skill in the game that has this same buff works on itself.

Lastly, is it wrong to ask players to play better rather than asking ZoS to bring everyone else down to some poor player who could have used any of the options I just laid out (and many that I did not even name) to avoid getting hit. Its time to call a spade a spade, if you have trouble defending against something other players do not then perhaps it's not the games fault.

PsychoKRATOS1 · September 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The problem is not Wrecking Blow, the problem is the damage of Wrecking Blow in combination with the passive defense of Heavy Armor.

Oh, and CC? I gave up on ZOS fixing CC.

Passive defence of heavy armour? Isn't it 4x better than light and 2x better than med? Which you'd hope since you're wearing ... what is essentially a metal suit.

I'm just thinking heavy armour should have lightening conductivity :P

BrassRazoo · September 2015

I'm pretty much sick of all the spamming of MANY skills.
ZoS have totally screwed up the balancing, always have.
They could have left half the things the way they were a LONG time ago and just introduced cooldowns.
If they can't fix weaving and animation cancelling cooldowns is the only solution.

PsychoKRATOS1 · September 2015

BrassRazoo wrote: »

I'm pretty much sick of all the spamming of MANY skills.
ZoS have totally screwed up the balancing, always have.
They could have left half the things the way they were a LONG time ago and just introduced cooldowns.
If they can't fix weaving and animation cancelling cooldowns is the only solution.

Talking of spamming skills...

Hidden blade is overly over the overly over the top spammables going.
On consoles (xbox etc) having hb as "B" Makes it so easy to use. I just imagine some guy laughing maniacally... spamming hidden blade like some crazed looney.

danno8 · September 2015

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The problem is not Wrecking Blow, the problem is the damage of Wrecking Blow in combination with the passive defense of Heavy Armor.

Oh, and CC? I gave up on ZOS fixing CC.

Passive defence of heavy armour? Isn't it 4x better than light and 2x better than med? Which you'd hope since you're wearing ... what is essentially a metal suit.

If heavy armour is 100%, medium is 75%, and light is 50% (was 25% but they increased it for IC)

So it's 1.33x better than medium and 2x better than light. It's the blocking passives that people used to really go for with heavy, but with the nerf to stamina regeneration while blocking it has thrown that pathway up in the air.

PsychoKRATOS1 · September 2015

danno8 wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The problem is not Wrecking Blow, the problem is the damage of Wrecking Blow in combination with the passive defense of Heavy Armor.

Oh, and CC? I gave up on ZOS fixing CC.

Passive defence of heavy armour? Isn't it 4x better than light and 2x better than med? Which you'd hope since you're wearing ... what is essentially a metal suit.

If heavy armour is 100%, medium is 75%, and light is 50% (was 25% but they increased it for IC)

So it's 1.33x better than medium and 2x better than light. It's the blocking passives that people used to really go for with heavy, but with the nerf to stamina regeneration while blocking it has thrown that pathway up in the air.

Shame really since heavy armour looks the nicest.
Heavy should get a slight buff to compensate for the lack of other add ons.. like a buff that actively negates a small % of extra damage and gives a passive resistance to crits... reason I suggest this is because the last DK "tank" I met was clad in a 5 med 1L 1H set up... With S&B and his Wrecking blow spamming super set up.

I'm just going to keep poking fun at wrecking blow....
WB isn't OP

leepalmer95 · September 2015

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

You just confirmed what I thought, another moron spouting the same crap over and over, clearly you didn't read my post, as I've mentioned several times I don't spam wrecking blow, I stopped using it after my first days in pvp as it gets me killed more than anything,

Tell me this, if it's soooo amazing, soooo powerful and it's too expensive to block/dodge.

Why oh why everytime I ever use it I can't get a single kill? Why every time that I've ever used it it gets blocked/dodged or I get walked through? Why do I, and the people I know never get killed by it?

9/10 times wrecking blow doesn't animation cancel, it actually cancels the entire attack?

The only people in this thread moaning are the ones that need to l2p, as clearly many other millions of players are getting on just fine with blocking/dodging and avoiding the attack.

Oh and uninterruptible? So using your own cc doesn't cancel it? Using another knockdown doesn't cancel it?

Sigh...

Well if your using 2h and not using wb, unless your a nb then your going wrong.

Yes wb can be animation cancelled and yes the whole attack animation will stop. So no it's not 9/10 times it just 9/10 for you because it clear you don't know how to do it. I'd be happy to teach you.

Wb has a 5m range on it so you don't need to literally be so close to someone that they can't walk through you, the actual skill range is a lot larger than the weapon size. Hence why it hits through dodge roll unless they dodge through you.

Interruptible e.g. interrupt skills not working on it (crushing show, psn arrow) and you can't bash it, using cc or other isn't 'interrupting' that is using cc skills and them hitting first. Every other charge skill can be interrupted, hence why there is interrupt skills in the game in the first place.

Dude you are too funny... you are arguing that wrecking blow is op but giving a player a tip on how to use wrecking blow better. Yes you can weave a heavy attack into the cast time of wrecking blow, but you cannot cancel or cut short the wind up animation of wrecking blow because that will cancel the entire attack. You are trying to correct him by telling him if he uses wrecking blow he can weave in an extra heavy attack, meanwhile you are not addressing the 1.3 second cast time that cannot be cut short, and cannot be canceled. the swing animation is what you are clipping when you weave a heavy attack and yes it makes wrecking blow do more damage, but please explain your way past that cast time or address how you intend to actually hit someone who knows what they are doing. Any skill that requires a cast time in a fast paced pvp is a liability. ..the reason good players say wrecking blow is a noob skill is because pve players are used to owning with it, but they are in for a rude awakening when they encounter skilled players who are not going to stand there and be hit by the glorified heavy attack. No good player gets hit by it, ever. Most will block, or dodge but they will not get hit with it, so what does it matter that you can weave an extra attack in if you can only use the skill against bad players who will allow you to cast a skill that requires time in close range. You can't be the player getting hit by wrecking blow and call that guy hitting you with it a scrub....you literally just went on about how much skill it takes to weave in a heavy attack. ....lol...you people are too funny.

You can't properly 'dodge' a wb, only if you dodge through the player otherwise it will hit.

You cancel the animation of the wb, your sword moves down then your character will just start a heavy attack. People don't even expect the wb.

Yes someone can block but a wb+HA weave will completely drain any magicka users stamina, a simple cc is an easy kill.

It's really not difficult to wb someone... even simply cc'ing them will let you hit them with that 1s cast time... it's not difficult.

The wb dmg needs nerfing and it shouldn't buff it's own dmg.

You can dodge wb if you have the timing down, which is simple...a basic "1 one thousand" count and dodge to the side from when you see the sword drop, will clear you from harm. Do not roll backwards, you are still in the danger zone there. Most players who try to dodge, dodge too soon in the animation and if the caster turns to the new location then you are scewed. Unlike instant cast skills wb animation doesn't start till the

Its not the wb casters fault some magic user decided that he didn't need stamina. This is a common fallacy in the player meta, that magic users don't need stamina, if you plan on blocking, rolling and breaking free then maybe you should invest in just a little stamina. All my magic characters have some points into stamina, more so then health I need to be able to defend myself. There is a whole CP line in the warrior tree dedicated to reducing the stamina cost for block, I suggest magic users who don't want to lose any magic resource look there

Yes it's difficult to hit someone who knows what they are doing with wb. Most skilled players know what the skill is, know the timing on it, have already popped their immovable potion, probably hit evasion and are ready to retaliate after your failed attempt at heavy attacking them.

I disagree with lowering damage on this skill for the same reason you disagree with nerfing frags.

Its called an empower buff (I know you know that) it boost your next attack regardless of what it is. In fact every skill in the game that has this same buff works on itself.

Lastly, is it wrong to ask players to play better rather than asking ZoS to bring everyone else down to some poor player who could have used any of the options I just laid out (and many that I did not even name) to avoid getting hit. Its time to call a spade a spade, if you have trouble defending against something other players do not then perhaps it's not the games fault.

The cc from wb is also bugged, it doesn't give you 4s immunity most of the time, skill's shouldn't be able to buff its own dmg, that should be changed for all skills so people don't spam the 1.

Even with 13k stamina thats still a wb+heavy+wb and it's gone, the small decrease from cp isn't going to make a difference.

Wb should be interuptable.

Lylith · September 2015

for the record, i am not advocating a nerf.

i merely want the cc to be fixed.

zornyan · September 2015

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

I keep seeing "DK's have no stamina morphs" do these people mean DK's have no worthwhile stamina morphs? Ooor? (Or do you just mean... what else am I supposed to use with 2H?)

DK's only, to my knowledge, have two, but still:

Searing strike -> unstable flame
Fiery breath -> burning breath

Wrecking blow + wrecking blows 20% extra dam next WB hit + heavy weapons passive + executioners extra damage to low health. That's a lot of bonuses to the skill. I'm not bashing it, far from, there are far more powerful abilities, especially if critical hits come into play.

Crystal fragments plus it's ever proccing insta cast, hidden blade and a night blades critical rating (usually high), and I find wrecking blow does even more damage (could be a placebo effect) when I have flames of oblivion active. Heavy attacks with both FOO and igneous weapons do me good too. Meteor and Dawn breaker (flawless dawn breaker increases attack power of WB too right?)

I use sword n board n 2H. Used to use 2H and DW. But I like being tankier.
Still viable to use deso and restoration staff with a dk right?

2 dots, when pvp fights usually last 3-4 seconds, why the hell would anyone use a skill that does average dps with a dot?

Neither of those are direct dps skills, like biting jabs, or suprise attack. Which not only do great damage, they buff themselves/debuff enemies.

Frags does less damage than wrecking blow? Seriously!? So what about the 20k hits I/others have seen and posted death recaps of? In my imagination?

It doesn't really matter about travel speed as generally your are in melee range, so you have even less of a give away then wrecking blow, which it will hit harder and faster than.

That 1/3 chance is a *** take too, I made a sorcerer and spamming a few low magika cost skills means you have it up nearly 100% of the time.

Hell in bwb a couple days a go a sorc was literially spamming shield and I was getting hit by frags every 1-1.5 seconds! So nearly twice as fast as wrecking blow. Whilst hitting just as hard.

Leandor · September 2015

Make the wrecking blow wind up take you out of stealth, together with having the damage register upon connecting, not cast so you can actually dodge it, problem fixed. Or just have this skill's scaling with WD and Stamina halved.

11k wrecking blows that do not take the caster out of stealth at all (so you never even see what hit you) is quite ridiculous.

Aconight · September 2015

I have every ability (except for cleave lmao) on my 2h bar and they're all part of my rotation. Yes wb is my main dmg dealer but I use all the other abilities just as much (dk ability gdb, rally, crit rush, dk ability breath, wb, executioner) (I'm sure most 2h users are like this too)? I don't get what all the crying is about, everyone has a main damage dealing ability on their bar. Just because you don't see me/recognise that I'm using other abilities doesn't mean I'm not lol

Half the time I can't even land my wb

If I could have more abilities on my bad I would, but my rotation already requires that I swap to my other bar.

Please stop lol.

Don't nerf w

PsychoKRATOS1 · September 2015

I

zornyan wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

I keep seeing "DK's have no stamina morphs" do these people mean DK's have no worthwhile stamina morphs? Ooor? (Or do you just mean... what else am I supposed to use with 2H?)

DK's only, to my knowledge, have two, but still:

Searing strike -> unstable flame
Fiery breath -> burning breath

Wrecking blow + wrecking blows 20% extra dam next WB hit + heavy weapons passive + executioners extra damage to low health. That's a lot of bonuses to the skill. I'm not bashing it, far from, there are far more powerful abilities, especially if critical hits come into play.

Crystal fragments plus it's ever proccing insta cast, hidden blade and a night blades critical rating (usually high), and I find wrecking blow does even more damage (could be a placebo effect) when I have flames of oblivion active. Heavy attacks with both FOO and igneous weapons do me good too. Meteor and Dawn breaker (flawless dawn breaker increases attack power of WB too right?)

I use sword n board n 2H. Used to use 2H and DW. But I like being tankier.
Still viable to use deso and restoration staff with a dk right?

2 dots, when pvp fights usually last 3-4 seconds, why the hell would anyone use a skill that does average dps with a dot?

Neither of those are direct dps skills, like biting jabs, or suprise attack. Which not only do great damage, they buff themselves/debuff enemies.

Frags does less damage than wrecking blow? Seriously!? So what about the 20k hits I/others have seen and posted death recaps of? In my imagination?

It doesn't really matter about travel speed as generally your are in melee range, so you have even less of a give away then wrecking blow, which it will hit harder and faster than.

That 1/3 chance is a *** take too, I made a sorcerer and spamming a few low magika cost skills means you have it up nearly 100% of the time.

Hell in bwb a couple days a go a sorc was literially spamming shield and I was getting hit by frags every 1-1.5 seconds! So nearly twice as fast as wrecking blow. Whilst hitting just as hard.

If you had read what I said I'd not get this response from you.
"There are far more powerful skills out there"
"Plus it's ever proccing insta cast"

I actually am against what OP is saying about WB. It might have all the bonuses... as shown... but it still doesn't match.

I find wrecking blow does more damage when I have. .. not more damage than crystals. It was more a question however and I should have stated as such. Asking whether or not flames of oblivion actually makes it hit harder. But again... my previous statement -far more powerful skills- beforehand should have deterred you from a misunderstanding.

I've been hit for 14 to 22k and that's not even the worst of it.

Leandor · September 2015

If you want to know why people would like 2H in general being toned down a bit, try playing without it for a while. Then you can see why it needs adjustments. Playing stamina, you have zero alternative to 2H in IC because you gimp yourself beyond reason. Wrecking Blow is one part of it (though mainly for the reason I stated above) and Momentum not taking you out of stealth the second part. Fix these and you have a possible counter to that gameplay, making it have less of an advantage over other weapon lines.

In this case, this nerf is the only way, since buffing other lines to be similarly broken just isn't a very clever idea. As I said, all the naysayers and the mentally challenged "L2P" shouters: Go play without 2H for a couple weeks.

PsychoKRATOS1 · September 2015

Leandor wrote: »

If you want to know why people would like 2H in general being toned down a bit, try playing without it for a while. Then you can see why it needs adjustments. Playing stamina, you have zero alternative to 2H in IC because you gimp yourself beyond reason. Wrecking Blow is one part of it (though mainly for the reason I stated above) and Momentum not taking you out of stealth the second part. Fix these and you have a possible counter to that gameplay, making it have less of an advantage over other weapon lines.

In this case, this nerf is the only way, since buffing other lines to be similarly broken just isn't a very clever idea. As I said, all the naysayers and the mentally challenged "L2P" shouters: Go play without 2H for a couple weeks.

I play without it a lot. Most of my characters use dw/bow/oh&s but it's just personal preference :P
Throwing a buff at an area to keep it on "par" is never a good idea. Agreed.

Leandor · September 2015

In my mind, it comes down to player potential. A good enough player can make the 2H line work in ways that prevents counterplay completely. While player skill has to have an impact and good players should be able to beat bad players, the behaviour exhibited by the 2H line is overdone, especially in combination with nightblade mechanics. The synergy needs to be broken in order to make it work.

willymchilybily · September 2015

The problem with this skill is the animation it triggers.

when i play my stamina DK yes wrecking blow is my main dps ability. A Melee stealth WB will hit harder than snipe, It gives next attack a 20% buff on top of rally buff, it does a cc and creates space to Crit charge, and I do more damage to low health targets when slotted.

do i think this all makes for an OP skill? not really I think the problem isn't the move it's the CC immunity triggering when the player stands up and there is a window between the standing up and the CC immunity in which they can receive another wrecking blow without immunity active. This is the main problem i have with the skill. I shouldn't be able to animation lock someone with a spammable high damage cast just through good timing without CC immunity ever triggering.

Lord-Otto · September 2015

Well, that was an interesting read. Thank you all for your input!
I'm actually surprised I see so few of the L2P comments or WB defenders.

Let me tell you more about my experiences...

EVERY death recap I have, there's at least one Wrecking Blow on it, often two. I've been hit by Meteors for 11k, but those WBs usually deal 11-13k. In my opinion, NO active ability in this game should hit harder than an ultimate, especially considering how slow and easy to avoid and even reflecting a Meteor is, in comparison. Two-handers basically get a free, spammable ultimate here. That is not balance at all.
And, like I said, I see lots of Wrecking Blows in Cyrodiil. There's a good reason for that. No, it's not because stamina users had no other options (lol). this argument comes from the same people who tell us to "learn to play" and use that skill themselves. Good laugh here. That's like saying "no, magic isn't weak in Skyrim, you just have to l2p! I have learned to forge me my 13k damage sword!". Overpowered does not mean it's an instant win against 20 enemies at once, it means it's way more powerful than other abilities and gives you the deciding edge in an encounter which would otherwise come down to individual skill. There is a reason why everyone used the BR in Halo 3. Why everyone used the Thorn in Destiny. Bee shield and Conference Call in Borderlands 2. People don't pick what is most fun. They will always pick the easiest, most powerful tools to win. To sit back in the chair and tell others to "learn to play".

What can I do when encountered by WBs? Well, first of all, I would instinctively dodge or block. However, from my experience, dodging doesn't work, it still hits you. The animation is too short and lag too strong to properly time your evasion. WB defenders often like to deny this. Block it? I'm magicka DK... I have my 13k stamina in PvP and can't afford to spend more points into that, as my offensive tools would suffer too much. A WB will drain half of my stamina bar... Usually, I'm already a bit exhausted from stealthing or a previous encounter, or from avoiding Critical Rush/Teleport Strike, and my stamina is gone with one WB easily. I can use my stamina+unstoppable potion, but the next WB is already incoming, then. And it will hit hard, forcing me way too much into defense.
Walking through a WB user is a good idea on paper, but WB has a range of 9 meters. You don't simply walk nine meters and through your opponent in half a second. Especially not if rooted or ensnared. Who are you kidding here? And even if I'm already close enough to actually walk through the guy, know what's behind him? A second WB user! You don't walk behind an enemy to dodge his/her attack, that's nonsense.

And of course, animation cancel. GG.

Stamina DKs... Seriously? You have NO other option than WB spam? What about that Dragon Blood, the flappy wings, the talons, the chain, the leap, Petrify and Standard? There's MANY skills in the DK trees that don't scale with magicka but offer great, great utility. DKs don't have to worry about self-preservation and crowd control, that is more than other classes can say. Feel free to use Dual Wield instead! Or are you telling me Steel Tornado and Flurry are weak? Bows? Also weak?
Crystal Frags on the other hand, for example, are a lucky shot ( ^_- ) and easily avoided. And what people are forgetting is how CF is a CLASS SKILL. Class skills are balanced in regards to the overall class. CF is the only fast-hitting burst Sorcerers have, all other offensive skills are slow or very situational. Yet, I get hit by Crystal Frags... Once per week. I'm not kidding. No one uses them. Ask yourself why.

To end an already way too long post, I invite you to play without Two-Handers for a while. Use two swords, a bow, or join the magicka camp. Come back then and think about Wrecking Blow again.

I see the numbers on the field, I'm not delusional. I don't know how ZOS Gina and her crew manage statistics, but I can PROMISE you here that they could easily see a very high percentage of WB use... More than any other offensive skill, including magicka ones. Why they refuse to talk about and tweak it, I can only guess. That guess would be that they are using it themselves. But at least vampires get another nerf, right? Or Fire Clench. Yup, I got you here, Zeni!
(^_-)

zornyan · September 2015

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, that was an interesting read. Thank you all for your input!
I'm actually surprised I see so few of the L2P comments or WB defenders.

Let me tell you more about my experiences...

EVERY death recap I have, there's at least one Wrecking Blow on it, often two. I've been hit by Meteors for 11k, but those WBs usually deal 11-13k. In my opinion, NO active ability in this game should hit harder than an ultimate, especially considering how slow and easy to avoid and even reflecting a Meteor is, in comparison. Two-handers basically get a free, spammable ultimate here. That is not balance at all.
And, like I said, I see lots of Wrecking Blows in Cyrodiil. There's a good reason for that. No, it's not because stamina users had no other options (lol). this argument comes from the same people who tell us to "learn to play" and use that skill themselves. Good laugh here. That's like saying "no, magic isn't weak in Skyrim, you just have to l2p! I have learned to forge me my 13k damage sword!". Overpowered does not mean it's an instant win against 20 enemies at once, it means it's way more powerful than other abilities and gives you the deciding edge in an encounter which would otherwise come down to individual skill. There is a reason why everyone used the BR in Halo 3. Why everyone used the Thorn in Destiny. Bee shield and Conference Call in Borderlands 2. People don't pick what is most fun. They will always pick the easiest, most powerful tools to win. To sit back in the chair and tell others to "learn to play".

What can I do when encountered by WBs? Well, first of all, I would instinctively dodge or block. However, from my experience, dodging doesn't work, it still hits you. The animation is too short and lag too strong to properly time your evasion. WB defenders often like to deny this. Block it? I'm magicka DK... I have my 13k stamina in PvP and can't afford to spend more points into that, as my offensive tools would suffer too much. A WB will drain half of my stamina bar... Usually, I'm already a bit exhausted from stealthing or a previous encounter, or from avoiding Critical Rush/Teleport Strike, and my stamina is gone with one WB easily. I can use my stamina+unstoppable potion, but the next WB is already incoming, then. And it will hit hard, forcing me way too much into defense.
Walking through a WB user is a good idea on paper, but WB has a range of 9 meters. You don't simply walk nine meters and through your opponent in half a second. Especially not if rooted or ensnared. Who are you kidding here? And even if I'm already close enough to actually walk through the guy, know what's behind him? A second WB user! You don't walk behind an enemy to dodge his/her attack, that's nonsense.

And of course, animation cancel. GG.

Stamina DKs... Seriously? You have NO other option than WB spam? What about that Dragon Blood, the flappy wings, the talons, the chain, the leap, Petrify and Standard? There's MANY skills in the DK trees that don't scale with magicka but offer great, great utility. DKs don't have to worry about self-preservation and crowd control, that is more than other classes can say. Feel free to use Dual Wield instead! Or are you telling me Steel Tornado and Flurry are weak? Bows? Also weak?
Crystal Frags on the other hand, for example, are a lucky shot ( ^_- ) and easily avoided. And what people are forgetting is how CF is a CLASS SKILL. Class skills are balanced in regards to the overall class. CF is the only fast-hitting burst Sorcerers have, all other offensive skills are slow or very situational. Yet, I get hit by Crystal Frags... Once per week. I'm not kidding. No one uses them. Ask yourself why.

To end an already way too long post, I invite you to play without Two-Handers for a while. Use two swords, a bow, or join the magicka camp. Come back then and think about Wrecking Blow again.

I see the numbers on the field, I'm not delusional. I don't know how ZOS Gina and her crew manage statistics, but I can PROMISE you here that they could easily see a very high percentage of WB use... More than any other offensive skill, including magicka ones. Why they refuse to talk about and tweak it, I can only guess. That guess would be that they are using it themselves. But at least vampires get another nerf, right? Or Fire Clench. Yup, I got you here, Zeni!
(^_-)

To prove your point incorrect.
1. Dragon Blood is a heal
2. Flappy wings? That's an ultimate, requiring us to perform several moves before it generates, it also bugs out 50% of the time and locks us in the animation defenceless until we die.
3. Talons? That's a magika skill so not stam based, it's also just a snare, so doesn't really offer any dps
4. The chain? That's a pretty weak gap closer in comparison to critical rush. It's also a one time use skill unless your enemy simply runs away from you. It's also magika based so no use for a stam build.
5. Petrify is magika based, and again it's not a dps move.
6. Standard is again an ultimate, a very expensive ultimate, that anyone can walk out of and it's useless.

So you've listed a bunch of magika cc/snare skills. Not a single dps move. How's that any good for a stam build? Or are dk's not allowed to be a stam build.

Let me inform you, dk's have two, yes TWO stamina morphs, both of them are DoTs that work over 8-10 seconds, so by the time they've done their dps, you're already dead.

Please tell me more of these amazing single target dps stamina morphs us dragonknights have.

Lord-Otto · September 2015

I actually just had the most monumental stroke of genius ever... Even bigger than the wheel's invention!
(o.o)!

Okay, have your Wrecking Blow, no problem...
BUT change the new Fire Clench so that it does exactly the same as Wrecking Blow, with the same numbers. Only magicka-based, of course.
Do the same (albeit stamina) for Hidden Blade and Arrow Spray. Problem solved. Everyone would get a WB, then.

How's that, WB lovers?
=P

willymchilybily · September 2015

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Stamina DKs... Seriously? You have NO other option than WB spam? What about that Dragon Blood, the flappy wings, the talons, the chain, the leap, Petrify and Standard? There's MANY skills in the DK trees that don't scale with magicka but offer great, great utility. DKs don't have to worry about self-preservation and crowd control, that is more than other classes can say. Feel free to use Dual Wield instead! Or are you telling me Steel Tornado and Flurry are weak? Bows? Also weak?
Crystal Frags on the other hand, for example, are a lucky shot ( ^_- ) and easily avoided. And what people are forgetting is how CF is a CLASS SKILL. Class skills are balanced in regards to the overall class. CF is the only fast-hitting burst Sorcerers have, all other offensive skills are slow or very situational. Yet, I get hit by Crystal Frags... Once per week. I'm not kidding. No one uses them. Ask yourself why.

DK's don't have a class high damage move for stamina unlike night blades and templars. same for stamina sorcs i expect.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I actually just had the most monumental stroke of genius ever... Even bigger than the wheel's invention!
(o.o)!

Okay, have your Wrecking Blow, no problem...
BUT change the new Fire Clench so that it does exactly the same as Wrecking Blow, with the same numbers. Only magicka-based, of course.
Do the same (albeit stamina) for Hidden Blade and Arrow Spray. Problem solved. Everyone would get a WB, then.

How's that, WB lovers?
=P

fire clench does knock back the same as wrecking blow but its got more range. but does less damage but can DoT also. id happily give it more damage for no dot, and 8m range and 0.8s cast time. interested?

arrow pray is a CC cone aoe. dont change that its amazing as is and bow already have damage from snipe and it does more damage than wrecking blow, plus it can be morphed to inflict major defile, and due to travel time can stack a few moves around it before it hits. very powerful.

DW does not have a nice damage move (IMO) nor gap closer, hence why for close quarters where a DK like to play im forced to use 2H and forced to use WB/crit rush.

Warraxx · September 2015

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I actually just had the most monumental stroke of genius ever... Even bigger than the wheel's invention!
(o.o)!

Okay, have your Wrecking Blow, no problem...
BUT change the new Fire Clench so that it does exactly the same as Wrecking Blow, with the same numbers. Only magicka-based, of course.
Do the same (albeit stamina) for Hidden Blade and Arrow Spray. Problem solved. Everyone would get a WB, then.

How's that, WB lovers?
=P

I'll agree to that IF, you give WB a 28m range AND make it instant cast.

Leandor · September 2015

Warraxx wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I actually just had the most monumental stroke of genius ever... Even bigger than the wheel's invention!
(o.o)!

Okay, have your Wrecking Blow, no problem...
BUT change the new Fire Clench so that it does exactly the same as Wrecking Blow, with the same numbers. Only magicka-based, of course.
Do the same (albeit stamina) for Hidden Blade and Arrow Spray. Problem solved. Everyone would get a WB, then.

How's that, WB lovers?
=P

I'll agree to that IF, you give WB a 28m range.

And make it dodgeable like every other cast-time skill.

leepalmer95 · September 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Warraxx wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I actually just had the most monumental stroke of genius ever... Even bigger than the wheel's invention!
(o.o)!

Okay, have your Wrecking Blow, no problem...
BUT change the new Fire Clench so that it does exactly the same as Wrecking Blow, with the same numbers. Only magicka-based, of course.
Do the same (albeit stamina) for Hidden Blade and Arrow Spray. Problem solved. Everyone would get a WB, then.

How's that, WB lovers?
=P

I'll agree to that IF, you give WB a 28m range.

And make it dodgeable like every other cast-time skill.

and interuptable.

Lord-Otto · September 2015

Did you not get the memo, Zorn? Fine, I'll go through it with you.

All of the listed abilities are utility, and their effects lie in that, not dps. DKs have great tanking abilities and crowd control, which no other class sports. I could go ahead and say Sorcerers desperately need WB as well, as they do not have good dps moves... All moves are extremely situational, and definitely not spammable. Yes, even Crystal Frags.

But let's regard magicka DKs. Where is my Wrecking Blow? My whip sure doesn't hit for 13k. What justifies magicka users not having such an enormously broken skill? Because they are using ridiculously overpowered light armor? Seeing the problem here?

Some minor things:
Talons are a root, a pretty potent one. Also, choking morph mitigates and doesn't need magicka scaling. Flappy wings, I refer to Dragon Wings here. Why again are DKs allowed to completely negate ranged combat?

Willy:
Zeni could go ahead and include WB as a sixth skill in a line. EVERY weapon line. My point is that if Wrecking Blow is fine, why shouldn't everyone have it?

Lord-Otto · September 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Warraxx wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I actually just had the most monumental stroke of genius ever... Even bigger than the wheel's invention!
(o.o)!

Okay, have your Wrecking Blow, no problem...
BUT change the new Fire Clench so that it does exactly the same as Wrecking Blow, with the same numbers. Only magicka-based, of course.
Do the same (albeit stamina) for Hidden Blade and Arrow Spray. Problem solved. Everyone would get a WB, then.

How's that, WB lovers?
=P

I'll agree to that IF, you give WB a 28m range.

And make it dodgeable like every other cast-time skill.

and interuptable.

And not animation-cancelable.

MyM16sHot · September 2015

LEARN TO PLAY before you hop on the forums and whine about the developers who do this for a living so that ungrateful crybabies like you can criticize their work. What qualifies you to say an ability is broken? It's players like you who gum up these forums with your useless garbage and have developers chasing their tails re-buffing and re-nerfing things.

Being a longtime 2H user I can tell you the cast time for Wrecking Blow feels like an eternity and I often get foiled by players who interrupt me or dodge roll. These are players that know how to play the game.

Leandor · September 2015

CrustyMudcrab wrote: »

LEARN TO PLAY before you hop on the forums and whine about the developers who do this for a living so that ungrateful crybabies like you can criticize their work. What qualifies you to say an ability is broken? It's players like you who gum up these forums with your useless garbage and have developers chasing their tails re-buffing and re-nerfing things.

Being a longtime 2H user I can tell you the cast time for Wrecking Blow feels like an eternity and I often get foiled by players who interrupt me or dodge roll. These are players that know how to play the game.

So, just because you are personally unable to apply WB correctly, it is fine for everyone? I guess it is you who should adhere to your own advice.

zornyan · September 2015

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Did you not get the memo, Zorn? Fine, I'll go through it with you.

All of the listed abilities are utility, and their effects lie in that, not dps. DKs have great tanking abilities and crowd control, which no other class sports. I could go ahead and say Sorcerers desperately need WB as well, as they do not have good dps moves... All moves are extremely situational, and definitely not spammable. Yes, even Crystal Frags.

But let's regard magicka DKs. Where is my Wrecking Blow? My whip sure doesn't hit for 13k. What justifies magicka users not having such an enormously broken skill? Because they are using ridiculously overpowered light armor? Seeing the problem here?

Some minor things:
Talons are a root, a pretty potent one. Also, choking morph mitigates and doesn't need magicka scaling. Flappy wings, I refer to Dragon Wings here. Why again are DKs allowed to completely negate ranged combat?

Willy:
Zeni could go ahead and include WB as a sixth skill in a line. EVERY weapon line. My point is that if Wrecking Blow is fine, why shouldn't everyone have it?

Great utilities? Sure! But they aren't going to kill anyone, they still don't have a dps move, like nightblades and templars do, magika builds don't have wrecking blow, they have 10k heavy fire staff attacks instead, they have a multitude of ranged abilities that hit just as hard if not harder, that can also safely be used from range.

Sorcerers have crystal frags, a move that hits harder, from range, and can be insta cast with virtually zero magika cost. You're magika dk can use a heavy fire staff attack with molten armaments, which have been shown to hit up to 10-15, not to.mention the light armor giving passives to spell penetration.

MyM16sHot · September 2015

Leandor wrote: »

CrustyMudcrab wrote: »

LEARN TO PLAY before you hop on the forums and whine about the developers who do this for a living so that ungrateful crybabies like you can criticize their work. What qualifies you to say an ability is broken? It's players like you who gum up these forums with your useless garbage and have developers chasing their tails re-buffing and re-nerfing things.

Being a longtime 2H user I can tell you the cast time for Wrecking Blow feels like an eternity and I often get foiled by players who interrupt me or dodge roll. These are players that know how to play the game.

So, just because you are personally unable to apply WB correctly, it is fine for everyone? I guess it is you who should adhere to your own advice.

I execute WB just fine, so you're failing to see the point.

Emma_Overload · September 2015

IMO, they can keep Wrecking Blow as it is, as long as they BUFF Crushing Shock to do 10K damage in PvP zones.