Immersion breaking new polymorps and mounts!

Rune_Relic · September 2015

The whole point of 1-50 is Mannimarco and necromancy.
I have no problem with walking dead.
BUT...the skeletal beasts look naff...at least give them half flesh with decay

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO · September 2015

Minnesinger wrote: »

What exactly is the problem? Less RP? There is no chance they made this game for hardcore TES fans who know every bit of lore. I was slightly disappointed when I realized this but I am used to it now. This game is for everyone whether they know the previous games or lore doesn´t mean much.

They certainly did their best to cater to them, at least in the beginning. You don't have to dig very deep to find that there's quite a few references to some pretty esoteric stuff. I know that's part of the reason why I've stayed hooked for so long. Though recently I've started to feel like the game's been taking itself in a different direction.

eNumbra · September 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

How is what I've said contradictory? I'm more comfortable if an item can be found around Tamriel than if it can ONLY be found in the crown store. Everything I've said falls in line with that.

You can accept undead mounts (but just barely), but other magically imbued mounts are unacceptable because, first there was no earlier precedent for them and now its because only you are the vestige and everyone else is not (even though they're certainly adventurers, vestige or not).

Changes to long established lore is okay for crafting, but not okay for mounts because you can't get past the "im the only one who's special" thing.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO · September 2015

Actually, you know what? This isn't about the lore, screw the lore. Pumpkin costumes are dumb and they make the game look cheap and tacky. There, I said it.

Xjcon · September 2015

Athas24 wrote: »

jeremiah911 wrote: »

I want them and I like them. I wish people would stop using lore like its a holy grail or something as an excuse not to have neat things. It's a game and supposed to be fun. These items are just that. Lighten up people.

I agree 100%! This stuff looks awesome. It's elderscrolls *Ish* and it's fun. It's a game. The lore gods won't hurt you for saying you enjoy having fun... it's ok. lol.

I know right. I mean isn't this something made up by the same people who made the whole Elderscrolls game up?

failkiwib16_ESO · September 2015

To be honest I don't care how lorebreaking costumes and vanity items are. I reaaaally dislike pumpkin costume because it is ugly - however I consider pets that look like enemies are a major annoyance in the game, since I waste resources getting away or attack them.

At least if they forbid pets inside dungeons and trials x_x I don't care what people do where fighting and slaughter is not involved.

Elsonso · September 2015

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

They certainly did their best to cater to them, at least in the beginning. You don't have to dig very deep to find that there's quite a few references to some pretty esoteric stuff. I know that's part of the reason why I've stayed hooked for so long. Though recently I've started to feel like the game's been taking itself in a different direction.

Most of the people in the top positions at ZOS were MMO and other game designers, not TES people. They are TES as a second language (TESSL) and had to learn about this TES stuff. Firor, Sage, Wrobel, Wheeler, and Konkle were all new to TES. I know that Cook and Schick come from a Dungeons and Dragons background. Not saying against any of them, but for a title with Elder Scrolls in it, they didn't have much in the way of Elder Scrolls people involved in it.

I was particularly interested and happy to see Lambert get into Sage's job. Most of what I like about ESO probably comes from the Lead Content Designer. Well done.

This is what gets me all excited about Elder Scrolls Online and makes me want to spend way too much money on this game:

"I think our tone sets a lot of the Elder Scrolls feel to the game. We've been very careful with how much - we don't offer out-of-world references. The Elder Scrolls world itself has its own sense of belonging and purpose. So, being true to the lore is one of the ways we do that." Paul Sage, May 2012.

This is what makes me question whether I want to spend any money at all on this game:

MasterFUNG_ESO · September 2015

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

What exactly is the problem? Less RP? There is no chance they made this game for hardcore TES fans who know every bit of lore. I was slightly disappointed when I realized this but I am used to it now. This game is for everyone whether they know the previous games or lore doesn´t mean much.

They certainly did their best to cater to them, at least in the beginning. You don't have to dig very deep to find that there's quite a few references to some pretty esoteric stuff. I know that's part of the reason why I've stayed hooked for so long. Though recently I've started to feel like the game's been taking itself in a different direction.

In the beginning it was a sub only game so yeah they catered to the lore people. Now that its B2P crown store is the main source of income so they better sell stuff people want. The game wouldn't be around for very long if they only sell crappy looking "lore friendly" only items.

AhPook_Is_Here · September 2015

I have never been a huge Halloween fan but I am really excited for the Christmas stuff; maybe we can get and Uncle Sheo Santa pet in a red suit? Maybe some candy cane skins for our weapons and some special Christmas themed mini-games with prizes and presents and snow!

Molag_Crow · September 2015

I'm sorry, but even if these costumes are "lore-breaking," they're just costumes, for fun? I don't really see the problem.

corrosivechains · September 2015

I'll concede to the point that the pumpkin costume has no express correlation to the game lore, but there are at least 3 holidays that can fit a similar theme to Halloween, and they're left pretty vague for traditions and mores. I disagree that it's lorebreaking, again, since this is a world that has Malacath, who was once Trinimac, until Boethiah ate and pooped him out as a Daedra...but eh, might as well complain about this if you're gonna complain about anything.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Tales_and_Tallows
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Day_of_the_Dead
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Witches'_Festival

Death_Prophet83 · September 2015

NDwarf wrote: »

Well if your gonna jump the shark may as well go big, can we get turkey mounts for Thanksgiving? Pilgrim costumes too? Nice big rimmed pilgrim hat, buckle shoes and a black and white outfit. Some turkey dinner provisioning recipes too.

Love me some thanksgiving.

QFTT.
I'm onboard here, giant turkey mount! And a Turkey dinner recipe that makes your character slower and randomly falls asleep!

Love me some thanksgiving also.

Arreyanne · September 2015

Opening Poster:

Really who cares it's a video game grow up

Wolfster · September 2015

There's a skeletal horse in canon. I don't see the problem.

KhajiitiLizard · September 2015

As this moment lore breaking things are the least of their worries, it's the gameplay going down the toilet, crashes, loading screens and everything else wrong with this game.

JD2013 · September 2015

Who can really say what is lore breaking other than Bethesda and Zenimax?

Is it your world that you created? No? Then you can't.

I say this an an ES lover since Arena.

Blackhorne · September 2015

1. These have been around for a month or more, and
2. They are still only potential additions, because
3. They were datamined, meaning some dev put the assets in the client, and that's it. For all we know, that particular dev uses the pumpkin costume in his/her internal testing because why not.

My advice: save your freakout for when something actually happens.

Messy1 · September 2015

Do not add these, I think they are incredibly tacky and hoakey.

log234 · September 2015

Malthorne wrote: »

You should change the title to "immersion breaking" because, as much as you want it to be, it's in not lore breaking. There are very little boundaries in ES lore and I promise you that there are much weirder things than these vanity items.

Yes, I will do that immediately, I suppose it's actually more accurate to the idea behind the post.

phairdon · September 2015

BabeestorGor wrote: »

2 of the festivals mentioned in Daggerfall, Tales and Tallows and Witches Festival have similarities to Halloween and it would be surprising if there was no Tamrelic equivilent. Much of the lore and creatures in TES is based on traditional European folklore and the 2 costumes that have people so upset would fit right in with that. As for the skeletal mounts entirely logical IMO that necromancy could be used to create skeletal mounts. On the other hand I'm not sure that people would be happy to see them running around towns but if they can accept skeletons, draugr and daedra running around town why not?

Skeletal mounts feature in Skyrim.

Moonshadow66 · September 2015

OMG, I just saw the pictures! If these.... things.. make it into the game, I'm out! For sure! This is more than disgusting!

Gidorick · September 2015

eNumbra wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

How is what I've said contradictory? I'm more comfortable if an item can be found around Tamriel than if it can ONLY be found in the crown store. Everything I've said falls in line with that.

You can accept undead mounts (but just barely), but other magically imbued mounts are unacceptable because, first there was no earlier precedent for them and now its because only you are the vestige and everyone else is not (even though they're certainly adventurers, vestige or not).

Changes to long established lore is okay for crafting, but not okay for mounts because you can't get past the "im the only one who's special" thing.

Yep! And I don't see that as contradictory at all.

Skeleton mounts are an extension of skeleton men & mer. Living creators in skeleton form. I admitted that this was crossing the line and that I'm stretching for justification, so that can't really be used as an example of me being contradictory. I would still prefer for these mounts to also have in-game presence, but I don't have as much an issue with these as the fire, ice, and lightning horses.

You seem to have ignored my biggest issue with these mounts. They are NO WHERE in the game but the crown store. No where in ANY TES game. To me, it is like they decided to sell flying monkeys as pets, or griffins as mounts. There's no justification for them.

If there were enchanting runes or crafting materials or motifs that were only available in the crown store, I'd have issues worn those too. Actually, I do have issues work many of the costumes and the concept of the costume in general. I have asked for a toggle to "show equipped" so we can choose to ignore costumes.

As for the "only one vestige" issue, that's a response to the argument that there are fantastical mounts in Oblivion and Skyrim provides justification for the fire, ice, and lightning horses in ESO. Those mounts weren't for just any adventurer, they were footer you specifically, because of your accomplishments and skill. I'm ESO there's no justification for every other adventurer riding around on an elemental mount.

If they exist in lore, I'm OK with them being sold as a mount in the crown store (unicorn, wamasu). If they exist in a game I'd be OK with them being sold as a pet in the crown store (riekling, daedrat). If they don't exist in lore and don't exist in any game, I have an issue with them being sold in the crown store (Nightmare Courser, Frost Mare, Mind Shriven Horse).

If you still choose to selectively read my response to perceive contradictory statements, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

My statement and plea is simple:

Justify these mounts in game.

Gidorick · September 2015

JD2013 wrote: »

Who can really say what is lore breaking other than Bethesda and Zenimax?

Is it your world that you created? No? Then you can't.

I say this an an ES lover since Arena.

This is true, I admit, but that is a pretty slippery slope. Put a fire horse in the crown store and it immediately becomes part of TES lore. Simple as that.

However, it would be nice to see them somewhere in the game other than under player's rears. A quest where you must lure a fire horse to mount it and ride or across lava to progress. That mount is only used during THAT quest, unless you buy it.

And yes. The fire mount sould be able to cross lava.

eNumbra · September 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Yep! And I don't see that as contradictory at all.

Skeleton mounts are an extension of skeleton men & mer. Living creators in skeleton form. I admitted that this was crossing the line and that I'm stretching for justification, so that can't really be used as an example of me being contradictory. I would still prefer for these mounts to also have in-game presence, but I don't have as much an issue with these as the fire, ice, and lightning horses.

Except that the undead exist as a part of the practice of Necromancy; Conjuration also exists and allows the summoning of various elementals/atronachs and Daedra. The notion that similar elemental mounts can be summoned or even crafted via magicka is a simple step.

You seem to have ignored my biggest issue with these mounts. They are NO WHERE in the game but the crown store. No where in ANY TES game. To me, it is like they decided to sell flying monkeys as pets, or griffins as mounts. There's no justification for them. I ignored this because this happens all the time. Things are added and removed from one game to its sequel: Zenimax having the rights to make ESO, it is theirs to do with what they will. They need to justification, like it or not.

If there were enchanting runes or crafting materials or motifs that were only available in the crown store, I'd have issues worn those too. Actually, I do have issues work many of the costumes and the concept of the costume in general. I have asked for a toggle to "show equipped" so we can choose to ignore costumes.
This is where you're being contradictory. Zenimax can make broad sweeping changes to the lore all they want unless its only changed via the cash shop. That said, I'd be fine with the "remove mysticism" idea, which would display all non-traditional mounts as plain.

As for the "only one vestige" issue, that's a response to the argument that there are fantastical mounts in Oblivion and Skyrim provides justification for the fire, ice, and lightning horses in ESO. Those mounts weren't for just any adventurer, they were footer you specifically, because of your accomplishments and skill. I'm ESO there's no justification for every other adventurer riding around on an elemental mount.

They we're for just any adventurer. You got them because you happened to be that adventurer, if another had gotten there first those mounts would have been theirs, but since it was a single player game you were the only adventurer. All of the other "non-vestiges" are doing all the same quests as you, getting all the same loot as you and have access to all the same things as you. Beat all the same quests, kill all the same bosses... etc. They're no less skilled than the vestige.

If they exist in lore, I'm OK with them being sold as a mount in the crown store (unicorn, wamasu). If they exist in a game I'd be OK with them being sold as a pet in the crown store (riekling, daedrat). If they don't exist in lore and don't exist in any game, I have an issue with them being sold in the crown store (Nightmare Courser, Frost Mare, Mind Shriven Horse).

The Daedrat has made no appearances before ESO, you can't establish the justifying lore for something in the same game, that's circular logic; and it brings us back to new things being added every game. That its okay to sell in the crown store only because its instanced somewhere in the world is your opinion which you're welcome to; but I find it contradictory, thanks to Zenimax having the rights to the IP.

My statement and plea is simple:

Justify these mounts in game.

The cold truth - We're zenimax, we're designing this game, a powerful wizard did it.

All of that aside - let's face it, we're in a dragon break none of this will matter with TES6.

Stravokov · September 2015

LOOK AT THIS UNDEAD ETHEREAL HORSE THEY WANT TO ADD! ITS SO LORE BREAKING ACCORDING TO THE LORE!!! HOW DARE THEY ADD THIS IMMERSION BREAKING--.... oh wait this is the mount from Skyrim/Dawnguard...

How about put your self righteous egos away and let ZOS have some creativity? they are using the license to the game... you people act like this "lore" is written in stone or something. at best, Lore is a guide for them on THEIR game.

Paradox · September 2015

Yeah, except... I want them and will probably buy them.

Your immersion means nothing to me, as you can simply move away from a player using these items.

Elsonso · September 2015

JD2013 wrote: »

Who can really say what is lore breaking other than Bethesda and Zenimax?

Is it your world that you created? No? Then you can't.

I say this an an ES lover since Arena.

ZOS does have a responsibility to protect the Elder Scrolls brand, which includes the lore, by not making poor decisions in how they choose to expand the lore.

I get to decide whether they are making poor decisions with the brand and how they expand the lore. I express that in how much money I spend with the product, along with commentary in the forums.

ZOS has not released the Halloween stuff. I do not know if they are going to or not. They have obviously done some work in prep for such a release, which is my cause for alarm. Someone in ZOS seems to think these are good ideas. I can express my expected displeasure, should they go ahead and release these ideas. I can also express my pleasure, should they decide not to do it. I have taken no action based upon the data mined information, other than to discuss it in the forum.

Elder Scrolls since Morrowind. (Before that, i was involved with other RPG games)

Blackhorne wrote: »

My advice: save your freakout for when something actually happens.

By then, the avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote.

azoriangaming · September 2015

yes very lore breaking but i'd still buy them they look amazing haha

nimander99 · September 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Ugh... why do we have to keep making this point. Arvak and Shadowmere are ONE-OF-A-KIND creatures. TES Doesn't have every Tom, Rick, and Harry riding around on these kinds of mounts.
8

Because its how magic works; because they could be one of a kind for no reason other than the other games were single-player and you didn't encounter other adventurers with the means to acquire rarer knowledge.

Because Zenimax isn't go to change it and these threads are useless and you all need to just relax and roll with it.

As long as they don't add Dwemer steam-powered motorcycles, anything they do with Horses, Guar and Senche is meaningless.

If these kinds of mounts were commonplace they would have been seen in the single player games. Sure there are special cases like Shadowmare... who really just had red eyes, not so special. These two mounts are very specific mounts, not a kind of mount "race'.

Furthermore, I have implored ZOS to include these mounts in-game in SOME way. Ideally we would go on a quest that requires the mount or rewards the mounts (like Arvak and Shadowmare) or ZOS could just make the mounts wild horses. Fire horse at the base of the volcanos in Shadowfen. Ice mounts in Eastmarch, and mindshriven mounts in Imperial City. This would actually be enough justification for me.

I even asked for them to just be sold AT the stables... but ZOS said "No". Literally. They responded on ESO live!

I don't think we are being unreasonable and I for one and trying my damnedest to accept these mounts as part of ESO "lore". As it is.... where did all these adventurers get their mounts? Where do they exist in the world aside from mounts? I want some justification from ESO, not some fan-fiction excuse that I have to make up myself.

The reason I don't have a problem with Guars or Senche-tigers is because I've seen these creatures in ESO. I know them in the context of ESO. I do not know any of the fantasy mounts in the context of ESO, because they have none.

I agree with you bro, but we both know why there will never be quests attached to these mounts... even if we paid real $ for the quests to get the mounts... its easier to re-skin, its not easy to make a quest to get the skin. Everyone pays $25 for a skin... why would zos all the sudden start making quests for em... its easy money, pure and simple. But I do agree with you.

Inactive Account · September 2015

Esbia wrote: »

Has ZOS actually ever listened to community feedback on anything? Like ever? I really wanna know.

Yes, but only from the " I would pay this many crowns, (This much Cash), for this item" Threads.

And, unless they start to improve the bonus people get from running a sub, The Cash shop Will be adding more and more items into it's sales floor in the near future.