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The Bads Have Finally Won
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Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There was never a skill in question, there was always the gear and CP advantage... skill was a marginal factor when it came to fights.
Want to test your skill, play competitive PvP games.
Rofl..not really
CP points is basically similar to the Realm Rank system in DAOC....if you came to the forums and said skill didn't matter in that game because someone was Rank 10 vs Rank 7 you would be laughed at.
Edited by Xsorus on September 2, 2015 9:25PMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire.
The list just goes on an on, doesn't it? I'm sure there are more, like eating the wrong food.
This is exactly why this nerf was badly needed. Shouldn't be that many ways to be accidentally one-shotted.
2 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There was never a skill in question, there was always the gear and CP advantage... skill was a marginal factor when it came to fights.
Want to test your skill, play competitive PvP games.
That's funny because I remember watching Murderthumbs murder a group of 50 people solo and he didn't have a CP and out of the gear he did have, he didn't use a single piece of legendary gear, half of his stuff was blue. The only thing legendary he had was a bow that I gave him that he never used.
Skill is the deciding factor in virtually every fight. It is is only when it is equally present on both sides that gear and CP become meaningful.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube3 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire.
The list just goes on an on, doesn't it? I'm sure there are more, like eating the wrong food.
This is exactly why this nerf was badly needed. Shouldn't be that many ways to be accidentally one-shotted.
It isn't about being "Accidentally" one-shotted, it was about not preparing for something that was going to occur to you regularly. It was a choice to sacrifice defense for offense. Everyone in the game had access to Radiant magelight. ZoS put that ability in the game for players who didn't want to be 1-shotted. Instead they came to the forums to cry and wanted the game made easy mode for them. Now they have their wish.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube2 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭There was never a skill in question, there was always the gear and CP advantage... skill was a marginal factor when it came to fights.
Want to test your skill, play competitive PvP games.
That's funny because I remember watching Murderthumbs murder a group of 50 people solo and he didn't have a CP and out of the gear he did have, he didn't use a single piece of legendary gear, half of his stuff was blue. The only thing legendary he had was a bow that I gave him that he never used.
Skill is the deciding factor in virtually every fight. It is is only when it is equally present on both sides that gear and CP become meaningful.
Is that something? You could watch Casuale at the start of the game rek 4 or 5 full raids. Was Casuale mad-skilled or broken mechanics? Who knows, he isn't here to rek 3 full raids now?“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »There was never a skill in question, there was always the gear and CP advantage... skill was a marginal factor when it came to fights.
Want to test your skill, play competitive PvP games.
That's funny because I remember watching Murderthumbs murder a group of 50 people solo and he didn't have a CP and out of the gear he did have, he didn't use a single piece of legendary gear, half of his stuff was blue. The only thing legendary he had was a bow that I gave him that he never used.
Skill is the deciding factor in virtually every fight. It is is only when it is equally present on both sides that gear and CP become meaningful.
Is that something? You could watch Casuale at the start of the game rek 4 or 5 full raids. Was Casuale mad-skilled or broken mechanics? Who knows, he isn't here to rek 3 full raids now?
It was someone who knew what they were doing, coupled with many people who did things they should not have done and yes some mechanics that were "too strong" to put lightly as well.
Standing in and dying to banner, feeding an emperor ultimate that kept him dropping banners and never running out of resources? Yes.
I remember there was a Templar/Sorc duo in the day who could kill Murder Thumbs by themselves given time. I don't remember the Templar's name but the Sorc's name was Rosalyn. Any time he'd drop a banner the sorc would negate him and the templar would keep him eclipse to run him out of stamina.
An early example of what is still true today where other skilled players are capable of defeating anything too difficult for those with no skill.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube2 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire.
The list just goes on an on, doesn't it? I'm sure there are more, like eating the wrong food.
This is exactly why this nerf was badly needed. Shouldn't be that many ways to be accidentally one-shotted.
It isn't about being "Accidentally" one-shotted, it was about not preparing for something that was going to occur to you regularly. It was a choice to sacrifice defense for offense. Everyone in the game had access to Radiant magelight. ZoS put that ability in the game for players who didn't want to be 1-shotted. Instead they came to the forums to cry and wanted the game made easy mode for them. Now they have their wish.
I remember waking up some days and just logging on to read all my skills over. Figuring out what skill is more usefull, and what sets and enchants are more valuable to my build. Sitting there thinking about all the other strong builds in cyrodiil and trying to make sure my build has counters and ways of surviving vs everything. Every little detail to food and what potion to use. Then to come to the forums to see people crying in hysterics not realizing that there is always a way to be successful if you actually put some thought and work into it. I always wondered how i never had the same issues as most people while playing.
#blamezosdevs5 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire.
The list just goes on an on, doesn't it? I'm sure there are more, like eating the wrong food.
This is exactly why this nerf was badly needed. Shouldn't be that many ways to be accidentally one-shotted.
It isn't about being "Accidentally" one-shotted, it was about not preparing for something that was going to occur to you regularly. It was a choice to sacrifice defense for offense. Everyone in the game had access to Radiant magelight. ZoS put that ability in the game for players who didn't want to be 1-shotted. Instead they came to the forums to cry and wanted the game made easy mode for them. Now they have their wish.
I remember waking up some days and just logging on to read all my skills over. Figuring out what skill is more usefull, and what sets and enchants are more valuable to my build. Sitting there thinking about all the other strong builds in cyrodiil and trying to make sure my build has counters and ways of surviving vs everything. Every little detail to food and what potion to use. Then to come to the forums to see people crying in hysterics not realizing that there is always a way to be successful if you actually put some thought and work into it. I always wondered how i never had the same issues as most people while playing.
#blamezosdevs
Yup. I've spent days of my own time running computations, testing gear and every little mechanic I could think of. I've done the same on PTS and was even doing this yesterday to determine which set I wanted to use by actually testing all of them (Thanks PTS). I've got a spreadsheet of tests and calculations that is 500 rows long and 50 columns wide filled with stuff.
This is exactly why I've never called for a class nerf in my history at ESO. Everything has always had a counter, and yes while some things were often too strong it was never something that couldn't be overcome with skill and knowledge.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube4 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »There was never a skill in question, there was always the gear and CP advantage... skill was a marginal factor when it came to fights.
Want to test your skill, play competitive PvP games.
That's funny because I remember watching Murderthumbs murder a group of 50 people solo and he didn't have a CP and out of the gear he did have, he didn't use a single piece of legendary gear, half of his stuff was blue. The only thing legendary he had was a bow that I gave him that he never used.
Skill is the deciding factor in virtually every fight. It is is only when it is equally present on both sides that gear and CP become meaningful.
Is that something? You could watch Casuale at the start of the game rek 4 or 5 full raids. Was Casuale mad-skilled or broken mechanics? Who knows, he isn't here to rek 3 full raids now?
It was someone who knew what they were doing, coupled with many people who did things they should not have done and yes some mechanics that were "too strong" to put lightly as well.
Standing in and dying to banner, feeding an emperor ultimate that kept him dropping banners and never running out of resources? Yes.
I remember there was a Templar/Sorc duo in the day who could kill Murder Thumbs by themselves given time. I don't remember the Templar's name but the Sorc's name was Rosalyn. Any time he'd drop a banner the sorc would negate him and the templar would keep him eclipse to run him out of stamina.
An early example of what is still true today where other skilled players are capable of defeating anything too difficult for those with no skill.
Ya lot of things for sure were variables, but here is the real question; if these changes present a challenge to skilled players, if the game is truly about skill, shouldn't skilled players be able to adapt and still excel, regardless? We're 2 days into a patch, a bit early to toss up the hands and say NOOBS WIN>SKILL NON-FACTOR.
I'd give it a few weeks to see what people figure out. And my idea of removing healing from the game is always a solution to bring skill and break zergs!“Whatever.”
-Unknown American2 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire.
The list just goes on an on, doesn't it? I'm sure there are more, like eating the wrong food.
This is exactly why this nerf was badly needed. Shouldn't be that many ways to be accidentally one-shotted.
It isn't about being "Accidentally" one-shotted, it was about not preparing for something that was going to occur to you regularly. It was a choice to sacrifice defense for offense. Everyone in the game had access to Radiant magelight. ZoS put that ability in the game for players who didn't want to be 1-shotted. Instead they came to the forums to cry and wanted the game made easy mode for them. Now they have their wish.
I remember waking up some days and just logging on to read all my skills over. Figuring out what skill is more usefull, and what sets and enchants are more valuable to my build. Sitting there thinking about all the other strong builds in cyrodiil and trying to make sure my build has counters and ways of surviving vs everything. Every little detail to food and what potion to use. Then to come to the forums to see people crying in hysterics not realizing that there is always a way to be successful if you actually put some thought and work into it. I always wondered how i never had the same issues as most people while playing.
#blamezosdevs
Yup. I've spent days of my own time running computations, testing gear and every little mechanic I could think of. I've done the same on PTS and was even doing this yesterday to determine which set I wanted to use by actually testing all of them (Thanks PTS). I've got a spreadsheet of tests and calculations that is 500 rows long and 50 columns wide filled with stuff.
This is exactly why I've never called for a class nerf in my history at ESO. Everything has always had a counter, and yes while some things were often too strong it was never something that couldn't be overcome with skill and knowledge.
I knew this games majority of players were just not very bright when there were so many people who had a problem with bolt escape. People were going crazy because a sorc could bolt escape away from danger. Getting all worked up over chasing one kill when it has no real significance in cyrodiil open world pvp. Even though there was always counters to it like shield charge and stampede.5 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »There was never a skill in question, there was always the gear and CP advantage... skill was a marginal factor when it came to fights.
Want to test your skill, play competitive PvP games.
That's funny because I remember watching Murderthumbs murder a group of 50 people solo and he didn't have a CP and out of the gear he did have, he didn't use a single piece of legendary gear, half of his stuff was blue. The only thing legendary he had was a bow that I gave him that he never used.
Skill is the deciding factor in virtually every fight. It is is only when it is equally present on both sides that gear and CP become meaningful.
Is that something? You could watch Casuale at the start of the game rek 4 or 5 full raids. Was Casuale mad-skilled or broken mechanics? Who knows, he isn't here to rek 3 full raids now?
It was someone who knew what they were doing, coupled with many people who did things they should not have done and yes some mechanics that were "too strong" to put lightly as well.
Standing in and dying to banner, feeding an emperor ultimate that kept him dropping banners and never running out of resources? Yes.
I remember there was a Templar/Sorc duo in the day who could kill Murder Thumbs by themselves given time. I don't remember the Templar's name but the Sorc's name was Rosalyn. Any time he'd drop a banner the sorc would negate him and the templar would keep him eclipse to run him out of stamina.
An early example of what is still true today where other skilled players are capable of defeating anything too difficult for those with no skill.
Ya lot of things for sure were variables, but here is the real question; if these changes present a challenge to skilled players, if the game is truly about skill, shouldn't skilled players be able to adapt and still excel, regardless? We're 2 days into a patch, a bit early to toss up the hands and say NOOBS WIN>SKILL NON-FACTOR.
I'd give it a few weeks to see what people figure out. And my idea of removing healing from the game is always a solution to bring skill and break zergs!
That's just it man....it isn't that it isn't a challenge. It's not a challenge! It's a snooze fest! That's what the outcry is about. I've adapted to major changes in every patch since early beta, that's never been a problem. The outcry is over the fact that the game was simplified too much, made *too* easy and too simple.
Noobs will never win, but numbers mean more than they ever did.Edited by Ezareth on September 2, 2015 10:24PMPermanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube3 -
coryrenick_ESO wrote: »If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire.
The list just goes on an on, doesn't it? I'm sure there are more, like eating the wrong food.
This is exactly why this nerf was badly needed. Shouldn't be that many ways to be accidentally one-shotted.
It isn't about being "Accidentally" one-shotted, it was about not preparing for something that was going to occur to you regularly. It was a choice to sacrifice defense for offense. Everyone in the game had access to Radiant magelight. ZoS put that ability in the game for players who didn't want to be 1-shotted. Instead they came to the forums to cry and wanted the game made easy mode for them. Now they have their wish.
I'd have to side with the people who didn't want to have to waste a spot on their bar just to avoid being one-shotted. With offense favored so heavily by high burst damage, it's kind of ridiculous to suggest there was even a choice. You'd be crippling yourself to respond to one threat when the flip side was damage that worked on everything. Just because there is a counter doesn't make it good.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Pretty much Loots R Us is the only trader I post in regularly and I've been inactive there for a while until IC launched.timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »I definitely see a lot of people that based their entire 1vX around hammering "bads" with broken mechanics and explots(100% armor pen, stealth multiplier stacking,camo hunter,dawnbreaker instant dot tick,stacking 5 pieces set bonuses with deaths,ect)having a problem now. The 1vXers that didn't do that seem to be doing okay.
Perhaps you should go back to the auction house as your comments on PvP are nearly always uneducated drivel.
I never did any of that garbage and I'm not having "Problems" but that doesn't mean I can't recognize that the combat has become very routine and boring. It almost feels like PvP has beenr educed to a PvE encounter.You want to maximize your damage and ensure just enough health/passive defenses to remain alive.
Utterly boring and static gameplay.
Well you went the route of salty personal attacks quick. Apparently you think you know me or something, but sadly I have no idea who you are, so I can't respond in kind to your personal attacks.
On to what few points you made, I don't really find the decreased effectiveness of oneshot cheese builds to be boring or static. I also do not think that a PvE spec would be remotely productive in IC outside of maybe the large group aoe bomb tactic.
I only know your name from two places, the Auction houses (everywhere haha) and these forums. Usually your comments are pretty barbed towards "1vXers" with labels of exploits and such and I've never seen you post anything that was sensible even if I disagreed with you. If I had to guess you're strictly a PvE'r who ventures into PvP only occasionally.
1-shot cheese builds were a *very* small percentage of the PvP content in 1.6. Most of the experienced PvPers that I've played with disdain these players ourselves and find the majority of them to be pretty bad players (although there are many gank players who are very good as well). Increasing the health bonus of Cyrodiil back to its 1.5 status would have helped with that issue more than anything else.
Now speaking from a PvE perspective I'm the furthest thing from an expert but I tanked a Vet DSA on my first time playing it in 3 months(never beat it before that), having never tanked it or anything else before in full PvP gear with my exact PvP build other than a couple of taunts swapped in. We had maybe 6 deaths on the full clear, usually because I didn't taunt something in time because I've never done it and had no idea what was spawning that hit hard where. PvE from my experience is quite easy because once you know a piece of content you can repeat your performance exactly and enjoy the same success. This isn't true in PvP.
Now I think any build could do very well in Cyrodiil or IC if it was an effective PvE build with some exceptions. In IC today I think that is more true than it ever was because right now min/maxing your damage and healing will reward you more than anything else. That is what "Static and boring" is to me. When the fluidity and pacing of combat becomes very predictable and routine it becomes boring and more down to best gear and CPs than skill.
The benefits of have good timing and reactions and *correctly* responding to the right threat at the right time was drastically reduced or even eliminated. The balance between needing to balance offense and defense was upset. The ability of the few to conquer the many was significantly impacted. None of these things are positive IMO.
Okay, I posted my first item to an guild trader in about a month and a half Monday and 98% of my postings this year have been on 1 trader, but I will let you continue to roll with whatever relevant point you were trying make by tying my auctions postings, my previous forum posts, and my opinion on the 2.1 damage reduction together.
Your guess would be wrong. I PVP regularly. I also do not dislike 1vXers or PvP.
As someone that pvps and pves regularly, I completely disagree with everything you are saying about builds. If the builds were interchangeable I wouldn't need Wykkyd's Outfitter and Superstar to manage all of my various PVP and PvE builds.
I do agree that the benefit of reaction time has been reduced. However, I am okay without people not taking a 22k snipe because they failed to react to it.
Perhaps I'm confusing your name with a similar sounding player that I see auctions everywhere for, there was no point to that line of thinking other than whoever that person is likely is making a mint in gold.
I'm not saying the builds are interchangeable, I'm saying the differences between a fully optimized PvE or PvP build are not that big unless you're competing for score or trying to 1 v X. In the Zerg-optimized PvP of 2.1 a PvE build can do very well with very little changes. I don't really know how to make that point clearer.
If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire. I never had issues with snipes unless I was hit while fighting other players....but that's why everyone hates a ganker.
I guess that from the perspective of a person that on one hand is extremely casual PVEr that was never able or motivated to complete Vet DSA until ZOS made it easy mode and on the other hand is hardcore dedicated PvPer, what you are saying about builds being similar may be somewhat accurate. For PVEr so casual about it that taking 3 months to complete the content is acceptable, yeh you can probably wear whatever you want. However, from the perspective of someone that has done hardcore PvP(small and large scale) and competitive PvE, what you are saying is honestly pretty mystifying. If I run in PvP what I run in PvE and vice versa, I'd be dead, unproductive, and/or extremely frustrated all the time.
It isn't about dying to a 22k snipe. It's that I value not being oneshot or nearly oneshot by various cheese builds like I am playing Call of Duty over rewarding reaction time. It'd be nice if ZOS could balance the game better instead of going from one kneeejerk extreme to another, but given a choice between one(1.6 damage) and the other(2.1 damage), I'll go with the 2.1.Edited by timidobserver on September 2, 2015 10:35PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »coryrenick_ESO wrote: »If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire.
The list just goes on an on, doesn't it? I'm sure there are more, like eating the wrong food.
This is exactly why this nerf was badly needed. Shouldn't be that many ways to be accidentally one-shotted.
It isn't about being "Accidentally" one-shotted, it was about not preparing for something that was going to occur to you regularly. It was a choice to sacrifice defense for offense. Everyone in the game had access to Radiant magelight. ZoS put that ability in the game for players who didn't want to be 1-shotted. Instead they came to the forums to cry and wanted the game made easy mode for them. Now they have their wish.
I'd have to side with the people who didn't want to have to waste a spot on their bar just to avoid being one-shotted. With offense favored so heavily by high burst damage, it's kind of ridiculous to suggest there was even a choice. You'd be crippling yourself to respond to one threat when the flip side was damage that worked on everything. Just because there is a counter doesn't make it good.
That is a terrible, terrible assessment of builds during 1.6. Clueless, I would say.
The best builds, the most universal builds, the 1vX builds you despise, were predominantly built around sustain and defence. You can't DPS no one when you're dead. Your number 1 priority is staying alive, if you can stay alive you can in time put enough damage to kill anyone.
As a Sorc the one thing i do all the time is re apply shields and buffs. It's muscle memory. I do it every 15 secs even with noone around. My defensive buffs are the first thing I check whenever I'm anywhere near combat.EU | PC | AD2 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »coryrenick_ESO wrote: »If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire.
The list just goes on an on, doesn't it? I'm sure there are more, like eating the wrong food.
This is exactly why this nerf was badly needed. Shouldn't be that many ways to be accidentally one-shotted.
It isn't about being "Accidentally" one-shotted, it was about not preparing for something that was going to occur to you regularly. It was a choice to sacrifice defense for offense. Everyone in the game had access to Radiant magelight. ZoS put that ability in the game for players who didn't want to be 1-shotted. Instead they came to the forums to cry and wanted the game made easy mode for them. Now they have their wish.
I'd have to side with the people who didn't want to have to waste a spot on their bar just to avoid being one-shotted. With offense favored so heavily by high burst damage, it's kind of ridiculous to suggest there was even a choice. You'd be crippling yourself to respond to one threat when the flip side was damage that worked on everything. Just because there is a counter doesn't make it good.
radiant magelight is only one way of countering it. When putting together a build you have to think about what your going up against and build accordingly. I guess most people like everything to be easy and handed to them. The only counter to more numbers is more numbers.2 -
mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »coryrenick_ESO wrote: »coryrenick_ESO wrote: »If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire.
The list just goes on an on, doesn't it? I'm sure there are more, like eating the wrong food.
This is exactly why this nerf was badly needed. Shouldn't be that many ways to be accidentally one-shotted.
It isn't about being "Accidentally" one-shotted, it was about not preparing for something that was going to occur to you regularly. It was a choice to sacrifice defense for offense. Everyone in the game had access to Radiant magelight. ZoS put that ability in the game for players who didn't want to be 1-shotted. Instead they came to the forums to cry and wanted the game made easy mode for them. Now they have their wish.
I'd have to side with the people who didn't want to have to waste a spot on their bar just to avoid being one-shotted. With offense favored so heavily by high burst damage, it's kind of ridiculous to suggest there was even a choice. You'd be crippling yourself to respond to one threat when the flip side was damage that worked on everything. Just because there is a counter doesn't make it good.
That is a terrible, terrible assessment of builds during 1.6. Clueless, I would say.
The best builds, the most universal builds, the 1vX builds you despise, were predominantly built around sustain and defence. You can't DPS no one when you're dead. Your number 1 priority is staying alive, if you can stay alive you can in time put enough damage to kill anyone.
As a Sorc the one thing i do all the time is re apply shields and buffs. It's muscle memory. I do it every 15 secs even with noone around. My defensive buffs are the first thing I check whenever I'm anywhere near combat.
Built around sustain and defence? And yet could still hit harder than anything else on the battlefield.
I might have even learned how if I didn't die instantly from, if not Snipe, any of the other crap flying around the battlefield that'd do 15K. My defensive buffs certainly never seemed to stop any of those hits from coming in, to the point I really wanted to scream exploit whenever I saw a sorc with more shields than health take an ult like it was a light attack.
Like I said, just because there's a counter doesn't make it good, and you could be crippling yourself to give yourself a situational advantage instead of an all around one. Was Radiant magelight an important part of sustain and defend, or were you better off with something that protected against more than sneak attacks?
And as also I've said, being able to spend more than three seconds alive in battle gives me the chance to learn if any of the things I'm doing are effective. I'll never figure out if Radiant Magelight is worth a damn if the next attack can kill me, too.2 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Im still thinking about the bad vs good comparison. Also thinking about what the acceptence of that comparison means we as a community believe in.
The game for better or worse is populated by more people who play games, but dont define themselves as 'gamers'.
I know this is a bit off, but hear me out.
The average eso player isnt going to do what you did, @Krim. Or @ezareth or @sypher or @gorthax or @heroofnone or @MissBizz. They only 'play' this game. Its just,a thing to do. They dont want to organize rp events or theorycraft unlimited blink builds, or memorize the entire cyrodiil map or even learn what other,classes skills are in comparison to thier own.
They want to log into the game, have a fun time during tbeir playtime and log off.
If thats pvp then they dont want to have a specific build,they had to look up on forums or theorycraft, to not be killed in one second after riding their horse for 2 minutes.
If thats pve they want to be able to go into pvp and get quests done while being able to run away and hide if attacked.
These players typically spend less time and more money on games than 'gamers' as it is,faster and easier to buy the item you need to have fun with than do something they don't like in the limited time they have to play.
If this makes a 'bad' player then yes they have won, but there never was even a fight to begin. They always will win because there are so many more of them willing to pay for what they want.
Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.13 -
IxSTALKERxI✭✭✭✭✭
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Now watch....instead of fixing the issue, they'll probably make consecutive wrecking blows cost 33% more. History repeats itself in this game.
LOL. It's funny because it's true.
NA | PC | Aldmeri DominionLaser Eyes AR 26 Arcanist | Stalker V AR 41 Warden | I Stalker I AR 42 NB | Stalkersaurus AR 31 Templar | Stalker Ill AR 31 Sorc | Nigel the Great of BlackwaterFormer Emperor x11 campaign cyclesVenatus Officer | RIP RÁGE | YouTube Channel1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »
Built around sustain and defence? And yet could still hit harder than anything else on the battlefield.
Stopped reading there. I hit nothing like the hardest thing on the battlefield.
When I was running a burst build i could get 23-24k crystal frags crits for poops and giggles. That was hitting hard , but that build was not very survivable. On my sustain build my frags crits hit for 13-14k at best.
EU | PC | AD3 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭Im still thinking about the bad vs good comparison. Also thinking about what the acceptence of that comparison means we as a community believe in.
The game for better or worse is populated by more people who play games, but dont define themselves as 'gamers'.
I know this is a bit off, but hear me out.
The average eso player isnt going to do what you did, @Krim. Or @ezareth or @sypher or @gorthax or @heroofnone or @MissBizz. They only 'play' this game. Its just,a thing to do. They dont want to organize rp events or theorycraft unlimited blink builds, or memorize the entire cyrodiil map or even learn what other,classes skills are in comparison to thier own.
They want to log into the game, have a fun time during tbeir playtime and log off.
If thats pvp then they dont want to have a specific build,they had to look up on forums or theorycraft, to not be killed in one second after riding their horse for 2 minutes.
If thats pve they want to be able to go into pvp and get quests done while being able to run away and hide if attacked.
These players typically spend less time and more money on games than 'gamers' as it is,faster and easier to buy the item you need to have fun with than do something they don't like in the limited time they have to play.
If this makes a 'bad' player then yes they have won, but there never was even a fight to begin. They always will win because there are so many more of them willing to pay for what they want.
QFT.
The 4th (edited - my bad) paragraph I think is where some people get hung up. They think, "If they don't play like me they're bad." Yet they also seem to not understand they're in the topmost sliver that is the hardcore gamer.
The bold part is where the vast majority of people are. I think that's what makes games like this most fun, because they get it's about the plain ol' fun. Then after a couple hours of it (or trying to attain it) they go log off and attend to their lives. It's a good thing.
Edited by k2blader on September 2, 2015 11:10PMDisabling the grass may improve performance.1 -
mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »coryrenick_ESO wrote: »
Built around sustain and defence? And yet could still hit harder than anything else on the battlefield.
Stopped reading there. I hit nothing like the hardest thing on the battlefield.
When I was running a burst build i could get 23-24k crystal frags crits for poops and giggles. That was hitting hard , but that build was not very survivable. On my sustain build my frags crits hit for 13-14k at best.
13-14K isn't harder than anything else on the battlefield?
You're already in siege weapon territory. And that's exactly why this nerf was necessary.3 -
InvictoNZ✭✭✭There is no way to fix a spam system.
Other internet based MMOs have addressed these issues... about 15 years ago.
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭While I agree with about 90% of your posts on this topic, I feel the need to point out that the patch is shaping the game to be what it was advertised as. It was never meant to be a solo PvP game. I hate zerging as much as the next guy, but it really wasn't bads that won this round. And I wish you would sport some better camaraderie in this small community of ESO gamers instead of calling your fellow players bads.
Secondly, as Lefty Lucy pointed out...most of you are probably going to want to run different builds/gear when playing in Cyrodiil versus Imperial City. Different environments are going to warrant different gear/abilities.
I am a solo player for the most part because of my awkward work schedule. Despite the issues with this patch, I would rather be challenged in finding a way to adapt than have to deal with the stupid stuff from pre-patch (One shots, some of the cheats that were common spread, nirn, etc).
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Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
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I'd have to side with the people who didn't want to have to waste a spot on their bar just to avoid being one-shotted. With offense favored so heavily by high burst damage, it's kind of ridiculous to suggest there was even a choice. You'd be crippling yourself to respond to one threat when the flip side was damage that worked on everything. Just because there is a counter doesn't make it good.
radiant magelight is only one way of countering it. When putting together a build you have to think about what your going up against and build accordingly. I guess most people like everything to be easy and handed to them. The only counter to more numbers is more numbers.
Didn't the combat music trigger before the actually abilities? I used to dodge roll the insta-second I heard the combat music. Sometimes the music would then stop and I just assumed whoever it was who tried to snipe me backed off when I dodged and they missed their opportunity. It saved me from having to waste a slot on that toggle.
But I also might just have been lucky.
Edited by Makkir on September 2, 2015 11:48PM0 -
Eglath✭✭✭Let's try to understand everyone: Ppl who are casuals and just want to have fun withouh getting one-shotted all the time. Hardcore players who spend lots of time theorycrafting, achieving balance between these 2 is really hard.
1.6 was too much dmg and we all know it, sure everything had a counter, except for lag, I won't even try to count how many times I have been killed ONLY because my weapon swap was delayed 0.5 sec. It wasn't much fun for those who were good but happen to make a mistake, I'm not saying that mistakes should go unpunished, but we are all humans and we are all making small mistakes which, if there is 1 or 2 of them, we should be given a chance to recover from them. New players were frustrated because they didn't even had a chance to asses the fight, before they dropped dead. Sure I enjoyed nice 1vX situations of me killing noobs., but it was too much.
1.7 is too much again, ppl just won't die, ofc when we get v16 gear things may change, but for now there is little difference between those who know how to play and time their skills and those who don't. I've always been supporting skilled players having advantage over those unexperienced ones. And now even if your opponent has no clue what is happening and he maybe has few plyers support, you just won't kill him. It all has been done by those who spend their time on whining about what is killing them, instead on how to counter it, and those will never learn.
Is it making skill useless? Not entirely, it is diminishing it, too much for my liking.
Not to mention group vs group, numbers are clearly winning even more than before. As much as bombing zergs is fun, they should give us different tools to combat them, than only pure force.
As someone who played a lot on enemy buff servers, the most dreadfull thing to see is bads who only complain, have a winning spot against good players.
The best solution would be to increase dmg reduction in copmarison to 1.6 and reduce in comparison to current.Edited by Eglath on September 3, 2015 12:26AMVinyamar - AD vr14 sorc RANK: 30
RAGE Core
Abandoned Legion Officer2 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »
Pretty much Loots R Us is the only trader I post in regularly and I've been inactive there for a while until IC launched.timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »I definitely see a lot of people that based their entire 1vX around hammering "bads" with broken mechanics and explots(100% armor pen, stealth multiplier stacking,camo hunter,dawnbreaker instant dot tick,stacking 5 pieces set bonuses with deaths,ect)having a problem now. The 1vXers that didn't do that seem to be doing okay.
Perhaps you should go back to the auction house as your comments on PvP are nearly always uneducated drivel.
I never did any of that garbage and I'm not having "Problems" but that doesn't mean I can't recognize that the combat has become very routine and boring. It almost feels like PvP has beenr educed to a PvE encounter.You want to maximize your damage and ensure just enough health/passive defenses to remain alive.
Utterly boring and static gameplay.
Well you went the route of salty personal attacks quick. Apparently you think you know me or something, but sadly I have no idea who you are, so I can't respond in kind to your personal attacks.
On to what few points you made, I don't really find the decreased effectiveness of oneshot cheese builds to be boring or static. I also do not think that a PvE spec would be remotely productive in IC outside of maybe the large group aoe bomb tactic.
I only know your name from two places, the Auction houses (everywhere haha) and these forums. Usually your comments are pretty barbed towards "1vXers" with labels of exploits and such and I've never seen you post anything that was sensible even if I disagreed with you. If I had to guess you're strictly a PvE'r who ventures into PvP only occasionally.
1-shot cheese builds were a *very* small percentage of the PvP content in 1.6. Most of the experienced PvPers that I've played with disdain these players ourselves and find the majority of them to be pretty bad players (although there are many gank players who are very good as well). Increasing the health bonus of Cyrodiil back to its 1.5 status would have helped with that issue more than anything else.
Now speaking from a PvE perspective I'm the furthest thing from an expert but I tanked a Vet DSA on my first time playing it in 3 months(never beat it before that), having never tanked it or anything else before in full PvP gear with my exact PvP build other than a couple of taunts swapped in. We had maybe 6 deaths on the full clear, usually because I didn't taunt something in time because I've never done it and had no idea what was spawning that hit hard where. PvE from my experience is quite easy because once you know a piece of content you can repeat your performance exactly and enjoy the same success. This isn't true in PvP.
Now I think any build could do very well in Cyrodiil or IC if it was an effective PvE build with some exceptions. In IC today I think that is more true than it ever was because right now min/maxing your damage and healing will reward you more than anything else. That is what "Static and boring" is to me. When the fluidity and pacing of combat becomes very predictable and routine it becomes boring and more down to best gear and CPs than skill.
The benefits of have good timing and reactions and *correctly* responding to the right threat at the right time was drastically reduced or even eliminated. The balance between needing to balance offense and defense was upset. The ability of the few to conquer the many was significantly impacted. None of these things are positive IMO.
Okay, I posted my first item to an guild trader in about a month and a half Monday and 98% of my postings this year have been on 1 trader, but I will let you continue to roll with whatever relevant point you were trying make by tying my auctions postings, my previous forum posts, and my opinion on the 2.1 damage reduction together.
Your guess would be wrong. I PVP regularly. I also do not dislike 1vXers or PvP.
As someone that pvps and pves regularly, I completely disagree with everything you are saying about builds. If the builds were interchangeable I wouldn't need Wykkyd's Outfitter and Superstar to manage all of my various PVP and PvE builds.
I do agree that the benefit of reaction time has been reduced. However, I am okay without people not taking a 22k snipe because they failed to react to it.
Perhaps I'm confusing your name with a similar sounding player that I see auctions everywhere for, there was no point to that line of thinking other than whoever that person is likely is making a mint in gold.
I'm not saying the builds are interchangeable, I'm saying the differences between a fully optimized PvE or PvP build are not that big unless you're competing for score or trying to 1 v X. In the Zerg-optimized PvP of 2.1 a PvE build can do very well with very little changes. I don't really know how to make that point clearer.
If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire. I never had issues with snipes unless I was hit while fighting other players....but that's why everyone hates a ganker.
I guess that from the perspective of a person that on one hand is extremely casual PVEr that was never able or motivated to complete Vet DSA until ZOS made it easy mode and on the other hand is hardcore dedicated PvPer, what you are saying about builds being similar may be somewhat accurate. For PVEr so casual about it that taking 3 months to complete the content is acceptable, yeh you can probably wear whatever you want. However, from the perspective of someone that has done hardcore PvP(small and large scale) and competitive PvE, what you are saying is honestly pretty mystifying. If I run in PvP what I run in PvE and vice versa, I'd be dead, unproductive, and/or extremely frustrated all the time.
It isn't about dying to a 22k snipe. It's that I value not being oneshot or nearly oneshot by various cheese builds like I am playing Call of Duty over rewarding reaction time. It'd be nice if ZOS could balance the game better instead of going from one kneeejerk extreme to another, but given a choice between one(1.6 damage) and the other(2.1 damage), I'll go with the 2.1.
Loots is the only Trading guild that didn't kick me for not meeting the weekly "quota" Lol. I could swear I saw you in more but I saw you cornering a few commodities in loots so assumed you were a big AH player like I was back in the day.
Anyways I digress, In PvP I play very defensive and my gear has a lot of health with insane regen so that translated well to PvE. No point in getting sidetracked on one statement, I'll drop it.
The issue with 1.6 I pointed out in 1.6 on PTS....the issues in 2.1 I pointed out in 2.1. I wasn't alone and none of this is news, the devs just don't listen or don't change their minds fast enough.
I can honestly say I was never 1-shotted on either my sorc in 1.5 or my NB because I had hitpponts on both and fast enough reaction times to not only survive the attempted gank but in 95% of cases kill the ganker as well.
I've learned a lot about the capability of various players by crit charging them on their horse. I love to attack a very high ranked player to guage their response. The best ones resct exactly as I would depending on their class but so many others are just slow to react and capable of being surprised. Now that raw ability or skill as I would call it has been marginalized. A guy can be half baked now and spam his healing key after a few seconds and survive for awhile. Failure is being rewarded and I hate that.Edited by Ezareth on September 3, 2015 12:18AMPermanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube2 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
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For a skill that requires proccing on a 33% proc chance, and then leaves you with big glowing purple hands that everyone can see, annmnd then consist of shooting an easily seen and thus blocked or dodged projectile. Are we being cereal here or is this just sour milk?coryrenick_ESO wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »coryrenick_ESO wrote: »
Built around sustain and defence? And yet could still hit harder than anything else on the battlefield.
Stopped reading there. I hit nothing like the hardest thing on the battlefield.
When I was running a burst build i could get 23-24k crystal frags crits for poops and giggles. That was hitting hard , but that build was not very survivable. On my sustain build my frags crits hit for 13-14k at best.
13-14K isn't harder than anything else on the battlefield?
You're already in siege weapon territory. And that's exactly why this nerf was necessary.
The fact that you compare it to siege dmg already tells me there isn't going to be any meaningful debate here, but let's humor you a bit more. Wrecking blow and snipe can be made to hit just as hard as a 20k+ - and they don't rely on a proc chance.POST EQVITEM SEDET ATRA CVRA
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krim✭✭✭✭✭
I'd have to side with the people who didn't want to have to waste a spot on their bar just to avoid being one-shotted. With offense favored so heavily by high burst damage, it's kind of ridiculous to suggest there was even a choice. You'd be crippling yourself to respond to one threat when the flip side was damage that worked on everything. Just because there is a counter doesn't make it good.
radiant magelight is only one way of countering it. When putting together a build you have to think about what your going up against and build accordingly. I guess most people like everything to be easy and handed to them. The only counter to more numbers is more numbers.
Didn't the combat music trigger before the actually abilities? I used to dodge roll the insta-second I heard the combat music. Sometimes the music would then stop and I just assumed whoever it was who tried to snipe me backed off when I dodged and they missed their opportunity. It saved me from having to waste a slot on that toggle.
But I also might just have been lucky.
Dodge rolling a incoming snipe off of sound without actually seeing it is a thing. I used to just block
There is no way to fix a spam system.
Other internet based MMOs have addressed these issues... about 15 years ago.
Well it was a lot better in 1.5, but you are 100% right. These players and guilds unknowingly spewing the wrong info to the devs are ruining the game though. This probably wouldnt have happened if the devs actually played the game.Edited by krim on September 3, 2015 12:43AM2
