Maintenance for the week of May 4:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 4
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 4
The Bads Have Finally Won
-
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM 1 -
WRX✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM
Christ sake, this video makes me sad.
Clearly ZOS felt they needed this damage nerf so bad and inexperienced players felt the could survive is cyrodiil.Decibel GM
GLUB GLUB1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM
I saw the video before. Could hardly believe what I saw. Not that you killed them, but just how bad they were (and no, I don't have anything against "bads"...).
It's not like I didn't win quite some outnumbered fights in IC so far either, but all that does notthing to prove my point wrong - that you can still "play very very bad and still survive". Your initial answer was that the attacker couldn't be exactly a good player though, wich is plain wrong. Thus, I showed you a way to prove me wrong instead. Wether you take it or bring nothing more to the table then words to back up your claims, is on you.
DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM
I saw the video before. Could hardly believe what I saw. Not that you killed them, but just how bad they were (and no, I don't have anything against "bads"...).
It's not like I didn't win quite some outnumbered fights in IC so far either, but all that does notthing to prove my point wrong - that you can still "play very very bad and still survive". Your initial answer was that the attacker couldn't be exactly a good player though, wich is plain wrong. Thus, I showed you a way to prove me wrong instead. Wether you take it or bring nothing more to the table then words to back up your claims, is on you.
I proved you wrong already. You said someone can play very very bad and still survive. I showed you a video where someone very very bad didn't survive even when they outnumbered the enemy 3 to 1.0 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OK, well, I'm done giving the "skilled players" who've been sulking over the damage changes the benefit of the doubt in terms of their perspective and concerns. They can ride the QQ-train as long as they like, wherever it takes them. Best of luck to them whatever they decide, I hope they find a way to have fun with whatever game they choose to play, whether it's ESO or something else.
Thanks for the vid Sharee, which shows that less skilled or talented players may survive a little longer but are still outmatched in 2.1 by those better at PvP. Those players you engaged with had a chance to fight back, to try something different when their opening moves weren't effective, and to learn something from the experience for next time. Whether they will is on them, but at least they had a chance.❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
(And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM
I saw the video before. Could hardly believe what I saw. Not that you killed them, but just how bad they were (and no, I don't have anything against "bads"...).
It's not like I didn't win quite some outnumbered fights in IC so far either, but all that does notthing to prove my point wrong - that you can still "play very very bad and still survive". Your initial answer was that the attacker couldn't be exactly a good player though, wich is plain wrong. Thus, I showed you a way to prove me wrong instead. Wether you take it or bring nothing more to the table then words to back up your claims, is on you.
I proved you wrong already. You said someone can play very very bad and still survive. I showed you a video where someone very very bad didn't survive even when they outnumbered the enemy 3 to 1.
/sigh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
Use it. I never said you couldn't die if you played very, very bad, just that you can survive. In this context: It is too easy to survive.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU4 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I finally played imperial city yesterday and in my opinion ZOS pushed out a 3.5/4 out of 5 stars update. The place looks great, PvE and PvP are finally mixed together meaningfully. PvE holds value, suspense and tension that you will run into enemy players. The need to group is meaningful (no more segregated guild crap), you will naturally run into alliance mates and want to stick together no matter where you are or who they are in Imperial City. ZOS fixed a ton of bugs. Most skills that I know of are working as intended now. The people running large groups don't realize or don't care that many of them make ZERO stones on kills, so who cares. Rich Lambert and his team thought imperial city through and put out a solid update. One that future tweaks as needed will only add to the fun and value (hopefully).
The issue at large is actually a small population of players (on the forums) grumbling about the changes. And I would guess the only real gripe is the reduction in damage dealt and regen. I personally don't mind it as the update is pretty damn solid. I guess lots of you ELITES take issue with not continuing to 1v5 and giggle the whole time and win many encounters. That's because you expect to dominate because you put in the time and label yourselves elite. Don't go through life with expectations, it's not good.
Also, as much as the "NERF" affected you it affected everyone, even the "BADS" as you call them. So I don't see your logic as you should still be able to get your kills. You just whine about how fast you can get it. And obviously as everyone gears up and continues accumulating CP things will return to "normal " I bet. I don't see deltia or lefty Lucy Labeouf expressing dire concern with the game or their builds.
You all moan and complain like 5th graders. You aren't even entertaining in the forums. And quite frankly, go to your local supermarkets, pick up some Greek yogurt, eat a few spoonfuls, and welcome to adulthood.Edited by Publius_Scipio on September 5, 2015 6:38PM8 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM
I saw the video before. Could hardly believe what I saw. Not that you killed them, but just how bad they were (and no, I don't have anything against "bads"...).
It's not like I didn't win quite some outnumbered fights in IC so far either, but all that does notthing to prove my point wrong - that you can still "play very very bad and still survive". Your initial answer was that the attacker couldn't be exactly a good player though, wich is plain wrong. Thus, I showed you a way to prove me wrong instead. Wether you take it or bring nothing more to the table then words to back up your claims, is on you.
I proved you wrong already. You said someone can play very very bad and still survive. I showed you a video where someone very very bad didn't survive even when they outnumbered the enemy 3 to 1.
/sigh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
Use it. I never said you couldn't die if you played very, very bad, just that you can survive. In this context: It is too easy to survive.
By what measure? How do you tell when it is too easy to survive, and when it no longer is too easy?
Yes, players no longer spontaneously explode the millisecond they make the slightest mistake, but does that make survival too easy? I don't think so.
Bottom line, good players will always kill bad players. The new patch just makes it so that the bad player lives a bit longer, and can see what is happening(and possibly learn from it) instead of just instantly dying.5 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM
I saw the video before. Could hardly believe what I saw. Not that you killed them, but just how bad they were (and no, I don't have anything against "bads"...).
It's not like I didn't win quite some outnumbered fights in IC so far either, but all that does notthing to prove my point wrong - that you can still "play very very bad and still survive". Your initial answer was that the attacker couldn't be exactly a good player though, wich is plain wrong. Thus, I showed you a way to prove me wrong instead. Wether you take it or bring nothing more to the table then words to back up your claims, is on you.
I proved you wrong already. You said someone can play very very bad and still survive. I showed you a video where someone very very bad didn't survive even when they outnumbered the enemy 3 to 1.
/sigh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
Use it. I never said you couldn't die if you played very, very bad, just that you can survive. In this context: It is too easy to survive.
By what measure? How do you tell when it is too easy to survive, and when it no longer is too easy?
Yes, players no longer spontaneously explode the millisecond they make the slightest mistake, but does that make survival too easy? I don't think so.
Bottom line, good players will always kill bad players. The new patch just makes it so that the bad player lives a bit longer, and can see what is happening(and possibly learn from it) instead of just instantly dying.
By measure of opinion, that's the point why we see all these discussions after all.
To explain mine, 1.6 already made for some boring fights against skilled opponents because we could go on forever.
2.1 continues that, but now it lowers the requirements to be able to survive against a good player forever, even with a very offensive build. Additionally, several important defensive mechanisms were drastically nerfed, making it a necessity to kill enemies even faster in outnumbered fights. In the end, we are being pushed towards even more offensive builds and/or bigger groups, while making the game for everyone in a random zerg so easy (and ironically unrewarding) that I don't even see how "bads" as they are called here should be able to learn anything. I think they might do better for themselves (as in, die less) in this update, yes, but just because it doesn't take effort anymore, not because they actually learned to play.
edit: typoEdited by ToRelax on September 5, 2015 7:05PMDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU5 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM
I saw the video before. Could hardly believe what I saw. Not that you killed them, but just how bad they were (and no, I don't have anything against "bads"...).
It's not like I didn't win quite some outnumbered fights in IC so far either, but all that does notthing to prove my point wrong - that you can still "play very very bad and still survive". Your initial answer was that the attacker couldn't be exactly a good player though, wich is plain wrong. Thus, I showed you a way to prove me wrong instead. Wether you take it or bring nothing more to the table then words to back up your claims, is on you.
I proved you wrong already. You said someone can play very very bad and still survive. I showed you a video where someone very very bad didn't survive even when they outnumbered the enemy 3 to 1.
/sigh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
Use it. I never said you couldn't die if you played very, very bad, just that you can survive. In this context: It is too easy to survive.
By what measure? How do you tell when it is too easy to survive, and when it no longer is too easy?
Yes, players no longer spontaneously explode the millisecond they make the slightest mistake, but does that make survival too easy? I don't think so.
Bottom line, good players will always kill bad players. The new patch just makes it so that the bad player lives a bit longer, and can see what is happening(and possibly learn from it) instead of just instantly dying.
By measure of opinion, that's the point why we see all these discussions after all.
To explain mine, 1.6 already made for some boring fights against skilled opponents because we could go on forever.
2.1 continues that, but now it lowers the requirements to be able to survive against a good player forever, even with a very offensive build.
That may be so, however not to such a degree that the surviving player could be 'very very bad', like you claimed.
An opponent has to be very skilled to survive against very skilled attacker. He has to know what abilities to use, and how to counter yours. The new system makes the fight slower, but that only eases on the requirement of fast reflexes, not on the requirement of knowing what is going on.
A player who knows what is going on, but has slower reflexes than you isn't a 'very very bad player', in my opinion. Bad players are those you saw in my video.
2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM
I saw the video before. Could hardly believe what I saw. Not that you killed them, but just how bad they were (and no, I don't have anything against "bads"...).
It's not like I didn't win quite some outnumbered fights in IC so far either, but all that does notthing to prove my point wrong - that you can still "play very very bad and still survive". Your initial answer was that the attacker couldn't be exactly a good player though, wich is plain wrong. Thus, I showed you a way to prove me wrong instead. Wether you take it or bring nothing more to the table then words to back up your claims, is on you.
I proved you wrong already. You said someone can play very very bad and still survive. I showed you a video where someone very very bad didn't survive even when they outnumbered the enemy 3 to 1.
/sigh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
Use it. I never said you couldn't die if you played very, very bad, just that you can survive. In this context: It is too easy to survive.
By what measure? How do you tell when it is too easy to survive, and when it no longer is too easy?
Yes, players no longer spontaneously explode the millisecond they make the slightest mistake, but does that make survival too easy? I don't think so.
Bottom line, good players will always kill bad players. The new patch just makes it so that the bad player lives a bit longer, and can see what is happening(and possibly learn from it) instead of just instantly dying.
By measure of opinion, that's the point why we see all these discussions after all.
To explain mine, 1.6 already made for some boring fights against skilled opponents because we could go on forever.
2.1 continues that, but now it lowers the requirements to be able to survive against a good player forever, even with a very offensive build.
That may be so, however not to such a degree that the surviving player could be 'very very bad', like you claimed.
An opponent has to be very skilled to survive against very skilled attacker. He has to know what abilities to use, and how to counter yours. The new system makes the fight slower, but that only eases on the requirement of fast reflexes, not on the requirement of knowing what is going on.
A player who knows what is going on, but has slower reflexes than you isn't a 'very very bad player', in my opinion. Bad players are those you saw in my video.
Well okay, that is only relative and subjective now, no point in arguing about it.
But it is not so that it would take an equally skilled opponent to survive 1v1, and that doesn't require a tank or something either.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM
I saw the video before. Could hardly believe what I saw. Not that you killed them, but just how bad they were (and no, I don't have anything against "bads"...).
It's not like I didn't win quite some outnumbered fights in IC so far either, but all that does notthing to prove my point wrong - that you can still "play very very bad and still survive". Your initial answer was that the attacker couldn't be exactly a good player though, wich is plain wrong. Thus, I showed you a way to prove me wrong instead. Wether you take it or bring nothing more to the table then words to back up your claims, is on you.
I proved you wrong already. You said someone can play very very bad and still survive. I showed you a video where someone very very bad didn't survive even when they outnumbered the enemy 3 to 1.
/sigh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
Use it. I never said you couldn't die if you played very, very bad, just that you can survive. In this context: It is too easy to survive.
By what measure? How do you tell when it is too easy to survive, and when it no longer is too easy?
Yes, players no longer spontaneously explode the millisecond they make the slightest mistake, but does that make survival too easy? I don't think so.
Bottom line, good players will always kill bad players. The new patch just makes it so that the bad player lives a bit longer, and can see what is happening(and possibly learn from it) instead of just instantly dying.
By measure of opinion, that's the point why we see all these discussions after all.
To explain mine, 1.6 already made for some boring fights against skilled opponents because we could go on forever.
2.1 continues that, but now it lowers the requirements to be able to survive against a good player forever, even with a very offensive build.
That may be so, however not to such a degree that the surviving player could be 'very very bad', like you claimed.
An opponent has to be very skilled to survive against very skilled attacker. He has to know what abilities to use, and how to counter yours. The new system makes the fight slower, but that only eases on the requirement of fast reflexes, not on the requirement of knowing what is going on.
A player who knows what is going on, but has slower reflexes than you isn't a 'very very bad player', in my opinion. Bad players are those you saw in my video.
1.5 seems to have a similar TTK as 2.1. Funny how i posted a video showcasing how bad players were in 1.5 where no player ever bothered to use the right skills or siege. The point is 1.5 is way better than 1.6/1.7(2.1). The excuse that people now have more time to react and figure out what to do is baloney. You do that by reading tool tips. If you cant react fast now you most likely never will especially now if the game never requires you to.
2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The excuse that people now have more time to react and figure out what to do is baloney. You do that by reading tool tips.
Excluding reflexes, being good at a game involves far more than just reading tooltips. You need to understand things that the tooltips do not show.
For example, knowing why double take is better for sneak movement boost than blade cloak or retreating maneuver. Tooltips will tell you that all three give the same speed, but they won't tell you that only double take can be cast without being revealed. There are tons of little things like this that the good players know, and the bad ones don't.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Good players know not only what abilities do, but also how they interact with each other. What to do, and when to do it. That you do not roll dodge from a meteor, but cloak instead. That bit is in no tooltips either. Etc. etc.
A player may have the reflexes of a cat, but if he enters the game after just reading tooltips, the first decent enemy he runs into will mop the floor with him.2 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭The excuse that people now have more time to react and figure out what to do is baloney. You do that by reading tool tips.
Excluding reflexes, being good at a game involves far more than just reading tooltips. You need to understand things that the tooltips do not show.
For example, knowing why double take is better for sneak movement boost than blade cloak or retreating maneuver. Tooltips will tell you that all three give the same speed, but they won't tell you that only double take can be cast without being revealed. There are tons of little things like this that the good players know, and the bad ones don't.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Good players know not only what abilities do, but also how they interact with each other. What to do, and when to do it. That you do not roll dodge from a meteor, but cloak instead. That bit is in no tooltips either. Etc. etc.
A player may have the reflexes of a cat, but if he enters the game after just reading tooltips, the first decent enemy he runs into will mop the floor with him.
Your kind of making my point. I am saying that 1.5 / 1.6 / 2.1 have always had bads. You have to stop catering to bads and force them to get good for the sake of keeping the game rewarding. The game hasnt changed completely so people who are able to put 2 and 2 together are still going to wreck those who cant think critically. Thats been this games biggest downfall is the majority of the players not fulling understanding everything it takes to be good. To someone that has been playing online games for 10+ years they might not think about it much because they dont have to. Theres a lot of understanding and knowledge that goes beyond physical skill to be good. Especially when you start fighting other live players who have intelligent minds. Things dont always stay the same and you have to change. Good players will change whatever they have to to be successful. Until they keep changing the game and becomes so boring and linear its no longer fun to play.
Figuring out that double take doesnt take you out of stealth can be tested out of combat. You dodge roll a meteor one time and it doesnt work.. Well you should have just learned that, and go on to trying a different method. Dieing in this game at least outside of IC didnt have any risk. You res back up change some things and keep trying until something works. If your running out of stamina maybe you need more stam etc etc. I keep getting knock downed and CCed... Maybe i should put on immovable. Thats where reading the tool tips can prepare you to at least understand what you might have to change to be effective.2 -
Dieing in this game at least outside of IC didnt have any risk. You res back up change some things and keep trying until something works. If your running out of stamina maybe you need more stam etc etc. I keep getting knock downed and CCed... Maybe i should put on immovable. Thats where reading the tool tips can prepare you to at least understand what you might have to change to be effective.
And you can res as much as you like, but you'll never learn anything if the first thing that happens in any combat is you eat 40K damage. Makes the utility of Immovable questionable when the only difference is you dying on your feet or on the ground. In fact, that was the exact reason I took it off my bar in 1.6.3 -
JDar✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
Bad players don't survive against good players. Decent players can survive and escape. You are not entitled to a quick kill on someone if you are a better player -- you should have to earn it too. The truly good players will do it.
You guys want dodgeball -- tag and you're out. No room for error and whoever has the ball wins. That's fine but when people say they are threatening to quit because they can't MLG noscope noobz any more I have no sympathy and I hope you leave the game.
edit: minor typoEdited by JDar on September 5, 2015 9:45PM5 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »Dieing in this game at least outside of IC didnt have any risk. You res back up change some things and keep trying until something works. If your running out of stamina maybe you need more stam etc etc. I keep getting knock downed and CCed... Maybe i should put on immovable. Thats where reading the tool tips can prepare you to at least understand what you might have to change to be effective.
And you can res as much as you like, but you'll never learn anything if the first thing that happens in any combat is you eat 40K damage. Makes the utility of Immovable questionable when the only difference is you dying on your feet or on the ground. In fact, that was the exact reason I took it off my bar in 1.6.
I know you came into the game at 1.6. I cant tell you how to figure things out. I do know the people were able to figure it out so its not impossible at all. That said the problems i have with the game are changes that came into play with 1.6... 2.1 doesnt really fix the issue of linear play, zerg or die unless fighting really bad players. I understand that you want to get better and use the skills necessary to be effective and 2.1 allows you to do that better. My argument has nothing to do with how the game plays now but more how much better it was in 1.5 without people ever knowing or taking the time to. You wonlt really know or understand where im coming from since you never played before 1.6 which changed how some of the mechanics in the game behave.Edited by krim on September 5, 2015 10:06PM2 -
MLRPZ✭✭✭✭✭AD // Marc the Epic Goat // Templar // AR50
EP // The Goatfather // Templar // AR44
AD // Unforgoatable // Sorc // AR33
EP // You Goat Rekt // NB // AR28
EP // Bill Goats // Swarden // AR28
AD // Goat Ya // NB // AR24
AD // Unforgoatten // StamDK // AR 21
DC // Egoatcentric // Stamsorc // AR16
and many unused PVE chars
REMOVE FACTION LOCKAoE RatsRIP Zerg SquadRIP Banana Squad IncNot your typical goat2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
That´s exactly the problem. Ten year olds are complaining they can´t compete with someone who´s put effort into getting good.
In the real world you´d laugh at someone playing soccer two times a week complaining he can´t compete with messi or ronaldo. In the game the referee changes the rules so everyone has to play in a wheelchair to even the odds for the morons.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
Angarato✭✭✭all I hear is neckbeards crying that they cant 1 shot people anymore and will actually have to use some sort of skill or planning to kill 1vX3
-
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭all I hear is neckbeards crying that they cant 1 shot people anymore and will actually have to use some sort of skill or planning to kill 1vX
Because 1vX takes no skill, so everyone can do it... right!?DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU3 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like how people keep talking about 1 shot no scopez.
Stam builds one shot people from stealth. Solution: blanket nerf everything. lol?
This is not about l33t one shots. This is about 1.7 making the combat ******* slow, tedious, and clumsy. The main issue why stam was hitting so damn hard in the first place, was because of armor mitigation was useless because sharpened and other armor pen combos were broken.
All they had to do was fix that, which would make passive defensive good(instead of being over-the-top now...) and then go back to the old health/mag/stam ratio so that people would have decent health, and investing in health would actually be logical depending on your build.
Instead, we have this clumsy mess of a combat system.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212202/fights-are-endless-in-non-vet-pvp-right-now/p1
O Rly??! You don't say Sherlock? Gee, I wonder if ZOS even plays their own game. Of course they don't. They are too busy making attribute respec scrolls in crown store for casuals that do not even know where the damn respec shrine is.Edited by Lord_Hev on September 6, 2015 1:27AM5 -
There's some skill involved. I'd even say it's more equipment and CP than skill. But look at any 1vX video and you'll rarely see the 1 actually threatened, even by groups of 10. The return on some skills is far too high, and it robs those without the skills of even the chance to make the attempt.
It may take skill to get to that level, but there's still no skill involved in facrerolling a dozen noobs.
I mean, really, what skill was there in a sorc with more shield than health two shotting everyone in a pug group? Asking everyone to walk around with Negate on their bar isn't asking for skill, it's just a dodge to continue being broken.0 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭
i dont think anyone's arguing that fact, or if it's even relevant.
All the guys who took great pride in rolling through under geared under experienced players (i won't use the term "bads" cos its childish and mostly just meant to be insulting) then posted video's in this forum section brought this on themselves.
the fact is while being a large percentage of the regular posters in this forum section they actually number a very tiny percentage of the player base in it's entirety. Now with that being so, these 1vX guys pretty much forced ZOS's hand.
The fact that these people feel entitled to have the game cater to their playstyle which is pretty much centred around destroying as many under geared, under experienced players in seconds is bewildering.
so ZOS should ignore the fact that people leave the game in numbers when they feel they can't even compete against the uber geared players rolling through them using builds aimed specifically for that?
here's an anecdote, to illustrate my point.
i moved to xbox one to help a bunch of guys who wanted to take up ESO , about 7 of them , after a few weeks they would run into the PC transfers who were rolling round cyrodiill spamming prox det and batswarm etc. mashing groups solo. This discouraged them but they tried to get the vet grind done in order to feel they could at least compete .. but the vet grind was too much so with cyrodiil being so unforgiving and the vet grind too severe ,,, they all stopped playing.
only 7 customers gone yes, and partly due to the vet grind granted. But i'm sure there are plenty of other similar stories stacking up to significant numbers of customers lost due to the 1vX power builds which you guys seem to think are awesome for the game..
if you were working at ZOS you would do the same thing they did , nerf hard the ability to lose them customers by making cyrodiil less fun for masses of players.
Edited by hamon on September 6, 2015 1:49AM4 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Combat after the Imperial City update is so incredibly boring that I have trouble finding anything fun to do in this glorified Cracked Wood Cave.
The damage nerf is naturally way too large to fix the overly high damage in 1.6, which has resulted in the most boring kind of ESO combat I have experienced since the beta. I understand that ZOS has to cater to the casual crowd because they are the main source of income for them, but this is just too much.
All in all, a complete waste of what seemed to become an awesome piece of PvP/PvE content. ZOS could just have extended Cracked Wood Cave.
[PS] All the people who think '1vX' is an argument in this discussion are silly.Edited by Lava_Croft on September 6, 2015 2:05AM0 -
Lava_Croft wrote: »[PS] All the people who think '1vX' is an argument in this discussion are silly.
Is it?
The loudest complaints are from this whining about how it takes too long to kill noobs, or that noobs surviving long enough to make a mistake is taking all the skill out of the game. Sure, they say they're just complaining about the zerg, but it seems to me they're just pissed they can't kill everyone in the zerg in two hits.
3 -
Ara_Valleria✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'm a fan of the changes, although night blade cloak spam is ***.
Melee damage/healing meta is way better than instagib.
That's always been a thing though. We were all doing it in 1.6 but nobody really complained.
And yes I agree with you. The main gripe seems to be that weaker players take a little more effort to kill and that 3 man groups of elite players can't steamroll a group of ten any more.
It is ridiculous to think you should be entitled to do that. What's even more ridiculous is that some players are saying they can't have fun any more because of this change!
Brings to mind a video I saw of NBA player Dwyane Wade playing dodgeball with a bunch of ten year olds. That's what people want to do to have fun and it is a sordid little bit of human nature revealed in a lot of the community.
Edited for readability
No and no. First off, it is "possible." 4 of us wiped an AD zerg of 15+ players. Granted, we had to force them to spread out by making them chase us by splitting up, but we did it.
It has nothing to do with entitlement. It has nothing to do with 1vX being possible. What it has to do... is with combat being utterly clumsy, tedious, and drawn out. It is waaayyyy to forgiving. It takes me 10 seconds just to kill someone that is AFK...
How long do you think it should take you kill someone who is AFK
When you say "forgiving" I think "the other player has a chance to recover from a high-damage burst"
Forgiving means you can play very, very bad and still survive.
If someone is playing very very badly and still survives, then his attacker isn't exactly star league either.
Then bring me someone to kill me in a 1v1 pls who would say otherwise. Actions speak louder than words.
If you want a proof that someone playing very very badly will still die, here you go. 3 of them and they still all died.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvqzQ9EWdWM
Christ sake, this video makes me sad.
Clearly ZOS felt they needed this damage nerf so bad and inexperienced players felt the could survive is cyrodiil.
Wow.
Only one way to describe those 3
Edited by Ara_Valleria on September 6, 2015 3:45AM°‡° ÁDAMANT °‡°
The Addon Abusers, Exploiters & Macro'ers Refuge•••• | Ara Valleria - AD NightBlade | Templàra Valleria - AD Templar | Åra Valleria - AD DragonKnight | Ára V - AD DragonKnight | Ara Laifu - DC NightBlade | Ara Waifu - EP Sorcerer | ••••
••••••| YOUTUBE |••••••Want to take a break from all the Lagging|Crashing|Cancer ?
Play Albion Online9 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
i dont think anyone's arguing that fact, or if it's even relevant.
All the guys who took great pride in rolling through under geared under experienced players (i won't use the term "bads" cos its childish and mostly just meant to be insulting) then posted video's in this forum section brought this on themselves.
the fact is while being a large percentage of the regular posters in this forum section they actually number a very tiny percentage of the player base in it's entirety. Now with that being so, these 1vX guys pretty much forced ZOS's hand.
The fact that these people feel entitled to have the game cater to their playstyle which is pretty much centred around destroying as many under geared, under experienced players in seconds is bewildering.
so ZOS should ignore the fact that people leave the game in numbers when they feel they can't even compete against the uber geared players rolling through them using builds aimed specifically for that?
here's an anecdote, to illustrate my point.
i moved to xbox one to help a bunch of guys who wanted to take up ESO , about 7 of them , after a few weeks they would run into the PC transfers who were rolling round cyrodiill spamming prox det and batswarm etc. mashing groups solo. This discouraged them but they tried to get the vet grind done in order to feel they could at least compete .. but the vet grind was too much so with cyrodiil being so unforgiving and the vet grind too severe ,,, they all stopped playing.
only 7 customers gone yes, and partly due to the vet grind granted. But i'm sure there are plenty of other similar stories stacking up to significant numbers of customers lost due to the 1vX power builds which you guys seem to think are awesome for the game..
if you were working at ZOS you would do the same thing they did , nerf hard the ability to lose them customers by making cyrodiil less fun for masses of players.
Or, if I were ZOS with half a brain-cell and actually played my own damn product, I'd get off my ass, go through with my promises I have made to my customers, and remove these godforsaken VR ranks so that we can actually have an "even" playing field that is not gated by a mindless time-consuming grind.
All this vertical progression is killing the game. You cannot balance vertical progression, If you try to, you end up with this ***** clunky clumsy slow tedious combat system we have right now. Because ZOS trying to give low under-geared lvl'd players a chance. Meanwhile the most logical thing for the health of this game, would be to remove this stupid plague of a grind to begin with, so players can actually go straight to PvP, and start practicing at getting better without this vertical gear power-gap nonsense.7
