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The Bads Have Finally Won
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Robbmrp✭✭✭✭✭
✭If @ZOS can adjust just a couple of things, IMO balance would be perfect.
They need to adjust everyone's ability to self heal so they are all equal. All classes should have an equivalent heal equal to BoL or GDB that's WITHIN their Class Skill line. Not outside it. The heal could be an instant heal or a HoT as long as it was the same for all classes. Yes, people can use a Resto staff but those heals cannot compare to an instant BoL heal.
THEN they need to remove shield stacking. With everyone having an equal healing ability, there's no more need for Shield Stacking. You get the biggest shield available, whether cast by you or another player.
Shields should be set at a fixed amount and not based off levels for everyone. We all get the same 10k shield, no one complains. We all have equal healing, no one complains.
They could do this for both PVP and PVE. By giving each class equal healing abilities, we become more self reliant on heals opening up everyone for more damage to players/NPC's.
@ZOS can also put in Vet Campaigns with no Champion Points. I'd much rather play in a 0 CP campaign.Edited by Robbmrp on September 2, 2015 6:28PMNA Server - Kildair2 -
SturgeHammer✭✭✭✭Lefty_Lucy wrote: »It is extremely critical that everyone realizes the impact that fully upgraded V16 gear will have on your damage.
In the PTS, when comparing damage with v14 gear versus damage with v16 gear, it is clear that v16 gear will give you a noticeable increase to your damage output.
I'm sure very few people (if any) right now are running fully upgraded v16 gear. You'll do much better when you get there, trust me.
Also, you need to approach this update with a different build / playstyle mindset. Playing 1.7 exactly like you played 1.6 will not always work for you. I have made adjustments in both build and playstyle, and I have not yet been frustrated with an inability to kill someone in PvP. I still come out on top, and it is still because of my skill.
This makes a lot is sense. I've done my share of complaining since IC hit (mostly about BWB), but as far as vet PvP goes it probably is healthier to hold my frustrations until I get fully geared.First-in-Line - Swings-for-Lethal
Green-Thumb - Scale-Factor
Hist-Tree-Major - A-Late-One
Needs-Some-Help - Dead-Last0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »I definitely see a lot of people that based their entire 1vX around hammering "bads" with broken mechanics and explots(100% armor pen, stealth multiplier stacking,camo hunter,dawnbreaker instant dot tick,stacking 5 pieces set bonuses with deaths,ect)having a problem now. The 1vXers that didn't do that seem to be doing okay.
Perhaps you should go back to the auction house as your comments on PvP are nearly always uneducated drivel.
I never did any of that garbage and I'm not having "Problems" but that doesn't mean I can't recognize that the combat has become very routine and boring. It almost feels like PvP has beenr educed to a PvE encounter.You want to maximize your damage and ensure just enough health/passive defenses to remain alive.
Utterly boring and static gameplay.
Well you went the route of salty personal attacks quick. Apparently you think you know me or something, but sadly I have no idea who you are, so I can't respond in kind to your personal attacks.
On to what few points you made, I don't really find the decreased effectiveness of oneshot cheese builds to be boring or static. I also do not think that a PvE spec would be remotely productive in IC outside of maybe the large group aoe bomb tactic.
I only know your name from two places, the Auction houses (everywhere haha) and these forums. Usually your comments are pretty barbed towards "1vXers" with labels of exploits and such and I've never seen you post anything that was sensible even if I disagreed with you. If I had to guess you're strictly a PvE'r who ventures into PvP only occasionally.
1-shot cheese builds were a *very* small percentage of the PvP content in 1.6. Most of the experienced PvPers that I've played with disdain these players ourselves and find the majority of them to be pretty bad players (although there are many gank players who are very good as well). Increasing the health bonus of Cyrodiil back to its 1.5 status would have helped with that issue more than anything else.
Now speaking from a PvE perspective I'm the furthest thing from an expert but I tanked a Vet DSA on my first time playing it in 3 months(never beat it before that), having never tanked it or anything else before in full PvP gear with my exact PvP build other than a couple of taunts swapped in. We had maybe 6 deaths on the full clear, usually because I didn't taunt something in time because I've never done it and had no idea what was spawning that hit hard where. PvE from my experience is quite easy because once you know a piece of content you can repeat your performance exactly and enjoy the same success. This isn't true in PvP.
Now I think any build could do very well in Cyrodiil or IC if it was an effective PvE build with some exceptions. In IC today I think that is more true than it ever was because right now min/maxing your damage and healing will reward you more than anything else. That is what "Static and boring" is to me. When the fluidity and pacing of combat becomes very predictable and routine it becomes boring and more down to best gear and CPs than skill.
The benefits of have good timing and reactions and *correctly* responding to the right threat at the right time was drastically reduced or even eliminated. The balance between needing to balance offense and defense was upset. The ability of the few to conquer the many was significantly impacted. None of these things are positive IMO.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube4 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Video Games
1.) People will whine
2.) They will stop whining after settling inIf @ZOS can adjust just a couple of things, IMO balance would be perfect.
They need to adjust everyone's ability to self heal so they are all equal. All classes should have an equivalent heal equal to BoL or GDB that's WITHIN their Class Skill line. Not outside it. The heal could be an instant heal or a HoT as long as it was the same for all classes. Yes, people can use a Resto staff but those heals cannot compare to an instant BoL heal.
THEN they need to remove shield stacking. With everyone having an equal healing ability, there's no more need for Shield Stacking. You get the biggest shield available, whether cast by you or another player.
Shields should be set at a fixed amount and not based off levels for everyone. We all get the same 10k shield, no one complains. We all have equal healing, no one complains.
They could do this for both PVP and PVE. By giving each class equal healing abilities, we become more self reliant on heals opening up everyone for more damage to players/NPC's.
I have been saying for A LONG TIME NOW. All other "nerfs" and "reductions" aside, CUT THE SHIELD STACKING BS! Give everyone ONE SHEILD at ONE TIME and let that be that.
I personally think how ridiculous it was that so many sorcs were so brazen simply because they had their security blanket covering them. And then you throw into the mix the ultimate get away tool, bolt escape.... But thats a different story.Edited by Publius_Scipio on September 2, 2015 6:38PM1 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭I actually think I like the way things are now more then what they were prior to this patch. The instagibbing just sucked and now there is time to react and utilize more skills effectively in a fight. However, it might have been a bit of an overkill so some additional tweaking may be required. I'm reserving judgement until I completely adapt to the changes and have more experience with them. Its definitely a move in the right direction imho.Edited by Sureshawt on September 2, 2015 6:42PM3
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FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BossTuggles wrote: »I even being a healer think BoL spam is dumb. I dont need to target anything with smart heals I just need to keep up self buffs and spam 3. Just think of the better healers you know and have played with niw ask those people how easy it is to do the job.
I think healing is probably the same difficulty as group dps, either way, players are specialized to such a degree they literally have 1 job (that's an exaggeration, we all have utility type jobs too, but basically, you keep your buffs/shields up, and spam your smart heals/aoe damage abilities). Maybe healing is a little harder, since a healer screwing up or dying can be fatal to the whole group, whereas dps usually have more margin for error.
I think the skill gap is between group play versus solo or even duo play.
It's not hard to be a decent group player, don't run a stupid build, stay on crown, do your job. I think it is difficult to be a decent solo player, you have to be lead, heals, utility, and dps. That's tough.
However, I've noticed that the really talented players are versatile and tend to be really good whether they're playing solo or in groups.
There is more than duo/solo vs crown group play. There is small groups - which is pretty much going to be the new low-bar norm for this patch IMO.
My small groups dont hover to the crown, we do our jobs and take care of ourselves. This is pretty much the most interesting level of gameplay where people pick up multiple roles. A DPS isnt a damage cog in the machine. Its just as essential as the healer or anyone else.
Already had a tough time taking out healers in these specialized ball groups before - it isnt even worth considering doing anymore because of TTK vs. healing. Healing should require more than appropriate setup. You can argue the same for DPS 'spamming wrecking blow' - but I burn through these types of players daily because they cant take care of themselves outside of the DPS function.
Defense/survival has already been too strong. Im fine with raising the TTK - it can make sense, but keeping healing equal only makes survival that much stronger/easier. I dont even see how this can be debated. People are going to get beefier and numbers will amplify the advantage in these situations because of all of this. Its kind of dumb - but at least theres different campaigns and Ive been able to avoid ball groups so far this patch. At least the ones who specialize in rotating barriers and spamming BOL/purge throughout the fight in the event something is about to hit them because *they can afford to do so* without penalty and knowing there is no counter to being an amoeba. Its great they added new sets that specifically amplify the strengths for these ball groups as well - Im sure the challenge levels are going through the roof for the big groups.
Detonation 5% modifier should be uncapped at 25% and hit 5% for every target. AOE caps mitigation should be removed.9 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This patch, is rewarding players who have slow reaction time, aren't actively engaged in defending themselves
The thing is though, obviously their research shows that the majority of players are these players. They patch around least common denominators.
Those who were "gods" because they were cheating now have to rely on the same homogeneous builds as the rest of the folks.
To anyone who used double mundus, overload bugs, nirn, sharpened, ww/vamp dual, camo hunter and the other bugs that gave you the ability to 1 shot good players and 1v10 bads:
This is your fault.
If you didn't exploit your way to "greatness" then this damage rollback wouldn't happen.
If people didn't exploit chains they would work. If people didn't exploit bats/standard/block/whip it would still be good.
The people who pay the bills dictate the way the game is balanced and the mass majority were sick and tired of being run over by people who were actively cheating to be "better" than those who weren't.
Well this is what you get, this is why we can't have nice things.
Next time when you see a cheat/exploit. Report it, don't use it, don't share it and we can then think about moving into real balance.
If you don't this cycle will continue onto the next game you decide to cheat in.
@sypher this wasn't directed at you per-se, but your comment got the train going.
your answer and comment is perfection and all truth^
as far as reasons and the how and why this patch and the current state of eso is at is because of everything you just said. plain and simple truth.
and its very sad.2 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭Detonation 5% modifier should be uncapped at 25% and hit 5% for every target. AOE caps mitigation should be removed. [/b]
What will stop zerg balls from forming AoE bomb groups that destroy everything in their path?
Personally I think the best method to prevent zerg balling is to have the AoE scale more damage the more targets it hits and drastically reduce AoE damage for hitting less then 5 targets.
A blowout/knockback feature for hitting more then 5 targets within AoE range would also be nice for blowing up the zerg balls.
This would make capping flags etc. a bit more dicey.
Edited by Sureshawt on September 2, 2015 7:04PM2 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭If they removed healing from the game it would fix the zerging issue and the skill issue at once. Any stacked group would be at a big disadvantage to overlapping circles of inclusion. Everyone would have to manage their health resources carefully and small groups surrounding larger stacked groups would be at an advantage.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
Lunamarie✭✭✭Don't forget the nerfs to spell dmg / weapon dmg on current v14 gear which the majority of us are still utilizing which means everyone's damage at the moment is probably going to be underwhelming anyway.
Once people are in v16 gear and some good theorycrafting with skill changes we should see an increase in damage again.
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FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Detonation 5% modifier should be uncapped at 25% and hit 5% for every target. AOE caps mitigation should be removed. [/b]
What will stop zerg balls from forming AoE bomb groups that destroy everything in their path?
Personally I think the best method to prevent zerg balling is to have the AoE scale more damage the more targets it hits and drastically reduce AoE damage for hitting less then 5 targets.
A blowout/knockback feature for hitting more then 5 targets within AoE range would also be nice for blowing up the zerg balls.
This would make capping flags etc. a bit more dicey.
This would scale all AOE skills in such a way that would make them wildly ineffective or overpowered. Having det for the single purpose of being extremely effective against large groups isnt a bad catch all. Barriers/purge could use a look at as well.0 -
ScruffyWhiskers✭✭✭✭✭Lefty_Lucy wrote: »It is extremely critical that everyone realizes the impact that fully upgraded V16 gear will have on your damage.
In the PTS, when comparing damage with v14 gear versus damage with v16 gear, it is clear that v16 gear will give you a noticeable increase to your damage output.
In what way is the boost to vr16 gear making that much of a difference? I watched you and KR stream a bunch of times and you mentioned this repeatedly but in my own excursions on pts with gold v16 gear i wasn't seeing a huge difference. My concealed weapon was non crit hitting for 2.5k on most targets.
Are you guys talking about the spell power/weapon power boost from Molag K and Scathing mage?
I wasn't seeing amazing spell power gains with my template scruffy and two gold vr16 swords vs. my two vr14 magnus swords that I have right now. I honestly don't see how upgrading to vr16 gear is going to put 15% more damage on my hits.
EDIT: Grammar mistakesEdited by ScruffyWhiskers on September 2, 2015 7:21PM0 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭Detonation 5% modifier should be uncapped at 25% and hit 5% for every target. AOE caps mitigation should be removed. [/b]
What will stop zerg balls from forming AoE bomb groups that destroy everything in their path?
Personally I think the best method to prevent zerg balling is to have the AoE scale more damage the more targets it hits and drastically reduce AoE damage for hitting less then 5 targets.
A blowout/knockback feature for hitting more then 5 targets within AoE range would also be nice for blowing up the zerg balls.
This would make capping flags etc. a bit more dicey.
This would scale all AOE skills in such a way that would make them wildly ineffective or overpowered. Having det for the single purpose of being extremely effective against large groups isnt a bad catch all. Barriers/purge could use a look at as well.
Well I thought the purpose of Proxy Det was to be a zerg ball buster and thus shouldn't be as effective against a small group.
Of course I just pulled the number 5 out of my ass so that number could be tweaked as could the damage numbers themsleves. I'm really just speaking conceptually to the point that Proxy Det should be more effective the more players it hits and weaker if it only hits a single or small number of players.
Otherwise Proxy Detonation becomes a must have skill instead of a situational skill designed to blow up a zerg ball. I don't want this game to end up with everyone running around popping one AoE skill because it is the best AoE damage in every situation.
Edited by Sureshawt on September 2, 2015 7:28PM0 -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭Forgot to mention this from my previous post. I'm looking at this from a different angle.
I think someone at ZoS decided to try and cater to all those who come and make threads and comments about being in a small group and not being able to compete against zergs they run into. I.E. "Whaaaa zergs keep running me over, they have no skill. Me and my 3 friends have tons of skillz!"
Could it be perhaps they decided to make it so Joe Solo and his small grp had a way to survive thru skill? All he needed was just a little more defense? But of course, they had to implement this for everyone. So that means Joe Solo is gonna have a harder time bursting down players now. Like the saying goes you can't have yer cake (or pie lol) and...etc etc.
I'm sure within a week everyone will have some kind of OP build and we'll all be back at square one complaining about how stuff is imbalanced. The cycle continues."The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"1 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭vs players I havent found it that bad... but vs mobs its a nightmare to heal past there damage in the city.2 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »I just don't know why they went absolutely crazy with the damage nerf instead of perhaps testing smaller increase increments. Just doesn't make sense to me.
I agree smaller increments would be much better, but I try to take the Dev perspective on this. A portion of the players will scream bloody murder about any nerf. If they go with 25%, and they find it is not enough, they need to go higher. But now that is 2 nerfs. And if they need to adjust again?
You can see the dilemma. I think because of this Devs will over-compensate, so if they need to move the needle, they are only moving it in the positive, or non-nerf direction, as much as possible.
I personally do not like that method, but if I were in their shoes, it would seem pretty attractive after just one day of reading feedback emails or forum responses to patch notes.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »I definitely see a lot of people that based their entire 1vX around hammering "bads" with broken mechanics and explots(100% armor pen, stealth multiplier stacking,camo hunter,dawnbreaker instant dot tick,stacking 5 pieces set bonuses with deaths,ect)having a problem now. The 1vXers that didn't do that seem to be doing okay.
Perhaps you should go back to the auction house as your comments on PvP are nearly always uneducated drivel.
I never did any of that garbage and I'm not having "Problems" but that doesn't mean I can't recognize that the combat has become very routine and boring. It almost feels like PvP has beenr educed to a PvE encounter.You want to maximize your damage and ensure just enough health/passive defenses to remain alive.
Utterly boring and static gameplay.
Well you went the route of salty personal attacks quick. Apparently you think you know me or something, but sadly I have no idea who you are, so I can't respond in kind to your personal attacks.
On to what few points you made, I don't really find the decreased effectiveness of oneshot cheese builds to be boring or static. I also do not think that a PvE spec would be remotely productive in IC outside of maybe the large group aoe bomb tactic.
I only know your name from two places, the Auction houses (everywhere haha) and these forums. Usually your comments are pretty barbed towards "1vXers" with labels of exploits and such and I've never seen you post anything that was sensible even if I disagreed with you. If I had to guess you're strictly a PvE'r who ventures into PvP only occasionally.
1-shot cheese builds were a *very* small percentage of the PvP content in 1.6. Most of the experienced PvPers that I've played with disdain these players ourselves and find the majority of them to be pretty bad players (although there are many gank players who are very good as well). Increasing the health bonus of Cyrodiil back to its 1.5 status would have helped with that issue more than anything else.
Now speaking from a PvE perspective I'm the furthest thing from an expert but I tanked a Vet DSA on my first time playing it in 3 months(never beat it before that), having never tanked it or anything else before in full PvP gear with my exact PvP build other than a couple of taunts swapped in. We had maybe 6 deaths on the full clear, usually because I didn't taunt something in time because I've never done it and had no idea what was spawning that hit hard where. PvE from my experience is quite easy because once you know a piece of content you can repeat your performance exactly and enjoy the same success. This isn't true in PvP.
Now I think any build could do very well in Cyrodiil or IC if it was an effective PvE build with some exceptions. In IC today I think that is more true than it ever was because right now min/maxing your damage and healing will reward you more than anything else. That is what "Static and boring" is to me. When the fluidity and pacing of combat becomes very predictable and routine it becomes boring and more down to best gear and CPs than skill.
The benefits of have good timing and reactions and *correctly* responding to the right threat at the right time was drastically reduced or even eliminated. The balance between needing to balance offense and defense was upset. The ability of the few to conquer the many was significantly impacted. None of these things are positive IMO.
Okay, I posted my first item to an guild trader in about a month and a half Monday and 98% of my postings this year have been on 1 trader, but I will let you continue to roll with whatever relevant point you were trying make by tying my auctions postings, my previous forum posts, and my opinion on the 2.1 damage reduction together.
Your guess would be wrong. I PVP regularly. I also do not dislike 1vXers or PvP.
As someone that pvps and pves regularly, I completely disagree with everything you are saying about builds. If the builds were interchangeable I wouldn't need Wykkyd's Outfitter and Superstar to manage all of my various PVP and PvE builds.
I do agree that the benefit of reaction time has been reduced. However, I am okay without people not taking a 22k snipe because they failed to react to it.
Edited by timidobserver on September 2, 2015 7:54PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What if.....What if you had a garden and there were some weeds in it, so you called a landscaping company to pull the weeds and they showed up, worked for a while, then gave you their card and said, "We removed the amount of plants in the garden by 20%, give us a call if you still continue to experience weeds". So you watch them drive away in astonishment, walk over to your garden and you still see the weeds so you call them again and schedule a new appointment. The landscaping company arrives again, heads over to the garden and works for a while and then they give you their card and say, "We removed the amount of plants in your garden by 50%, give us a call if you continue to experience weeds."
Personally I think I would just watch in astonishment as they drive away again. I don't think I could have formulated the words in time to properly communicate before they left. At best I could probably just make vowel sounds and gestures. This is kinda what I feel happened in 1.6 and 1.7.Edited by Armitas on September 2, 2015 7:59PMRetired.
Nord mDK3 -
Alomar✭✭✭✭✭In 1.6 I only ever saw two broken op specs/classes that totally were not intended to have such short ttk. These were stam nb's and stam Templars, many of which were using the broken double sharpened maces and over proc'ing evil hunter. The change to Battle Spirit may have been necessary in terms of reducing the op/fotm shield stacking, yet the reduced healing and damage has only encouraged zerging (groups of 25+) even more than in 1.6, which is quite an accomplishment from a developers that supposedly want people to spread out.
Still can beat the zergs though, our 10 man farmed the two largest guilds in Azura's (25-40 each) in the Memorial District last night till they left.Edited by Alomar on September 2, 2015 8:06PMHaxus Council Member
Former Havoc Commander
Former DiE officer
Alomar: 5 Stars - Beast: 3 stars - Kurudin: 5th NA emperor
Awaiting New World, Camelot Unchained, and Crowfall2 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭well thought out response.
It's takes some extrapolating and some conjecture sure, but think about it.
The amount of damage that was the cause of the uproar and the unbalance in PvP from 1.6 was from broken mechanics and skills that stacked without testing first.
The ability to do 20-30k in damage within 1 second was the problem the majority of people shared.
Now ZOS balanced around that in typical ZOS faction of completely changing systems instead of small tweaks, but it was foreseeable that they would do so from their history.
edit:
The title of this thread is quite condescending in and of itself. The general attitude is itself why this nerf happened IMO. The "bads" are the people who spend the most money.
Great post.
Is the OP actually saying anyone who doesn't successfully 1vX is "bad"? That's probably a good 90%+ of the player base.
Disabling the grass may improve performance.3 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭well thought out response.
It's takes some extrapolating and some conjecture sure, but think about it.
The amount of damage that was the cause of the uproar and the unbalance in PvP from 1.6 was from broken mechanics and skills that stacked without testing first.
The ability to do 20-30k in damage within 1 second was the problem the majority of people shared.
Now ZOS balanced around that in typical ZOS faction of completely changing systems instead of small tweaks, but it was foreseeable that they would do so from their history.
edit:
The title of this thread is quite condescending in and of itself. The general attitude is itself why this nerf happened IMO. The "bads" are the people who spend the most money.
Great post.
Is the OP actually saying anyone who doesn't successfully 1vX is "bad"? That's probably a good 90%+ of the player base.
If you use a not so well rounded build in cyrodiil then complain you are bad yes. People were dieing from bow attacks in 1-2 seconds in version 1.5. Just watch the very end of the SMF2 video in my sig. After watching the same guy in the video fight large numbers in a small group.
Edited by krim on September 2, 2015 8:38PM0 -
Mr_Nobody✭✭✭✭✭Idk, i duo'd yesterday in IC and we wiped groups of up to 10 or so. Might be hard solo, i agree, but that aint the end of the world. The hardest challenge i encountered myself was fighting 1vx where X had 1 or 2 BoL spamming templars. Else is a cake, considering 90% of people in IC have possibly never seen PvP, thats considering their AR and the way they play.0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭If @ZOS can adjust just a couple of things, IMO balance would be perfect.
They need to adjust everyone's ability to self heal so they are all equal. All classes should have an equivalent heal equal to BoL or GDB that's WITHIN their Class Skill line. Not outside it. The heal could be an instant heal or a HoT as long as it was the same for all classes. Yes, people can use a Resto staff but those heals cannot compare to an instant BoL heal.
THEN they need to remove shield stacking. With everyone having an equal healing ability, there's no more need for Shield Stacking. You get the biggest shield available, whether cast by you or another player.
Shields should be set at a fixed amount and not based off levels for everyone. We all get the same 10k shield, no one complains. We all have equal healing, no one complains.
They could do this for both PVP and PVE. By giving each class equal healing abilities, we become more self reliant on heals opening up everyone for more damage to players/NPC's.
@ZOS can also put in Vet Campaigns with no Champion Points. I'd much rather play in a 0 CP campaign.
Makes no sense.
Resto staff heals can't compare? People who use resto are taking up a weapon slot.
If everyone had "equal healing ability" why would healing be needed in the first place? But then you're saying that'd be a reason to remove shield stacking? lol
What about armor?
What about resources (magicka or stamina?)
So much you're neglecting to think about. But you just want to get a heal without running resto and you want a bubble "same-same" as other classes. Ridiculous.
Disabling the grass may improve performance.3 -
ThyIronFist✭✭✭✭✭100% agreed well said OP.The Elder Zergs Online
Sainur Ironfist - DK - EU - Ebonheart Pact
Retired1 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭well thought out response.
It's takes some extrapolating and some conjecture sure, but think about it.
The amount of damage that was the cause of the uproar and the unbalance in PvP from 1.6 was from broken mechanics and skills that stacked without testing first.
The ability to do 20-30k in damage within 1 second was the problem the majority of people shared.
Now ZOS balanced around that in typical ZOS faction of completely changing systems instead of small tweaks, but it was foreseeable that they would do so from their history.
edit:
The title of this thread is quite condescending in and of itself. The general attitude is itself why this nerf happened IMO. The "bads" are the people who spend the most money.
Great post.
Is the OP actually saying anyone who doesn't successfully 1vX is "bad"? That's probably a good 90%+ of the player base.
If you use a not so well rounded build in cyrodiil then complain you are bad yes. People were dieing from bow attacks in 1-2 seconds in version 1.5. Just watch the very end of the SMF2 video in my sig. After watching the same guy in the video fight large numbers in a small group.
"Not so well rounded build." What does that even mean? If a "build" includes cheats (nirn, etc.)-- and/or high CPs which matters quite a bit-- then the player using it isn't very great IMO.
"Complain you are bad"-- I don't get that either. Personally I try to not complain much but 1.6 TTK was way too fast. Do I agree with the ways Zeni's trying to "fix" that? No, but it doesn't much matter.
Bow attacks, 1.5, who the F cares (no offense). :-P
I guess I just didn't get your point(s).
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »I definitely see a lot of people that based their entire 1vX around hammering "bads" with broken mechanics and explots(100% armor pen, stealth multiplier stacking,camo hunter,dawnbreaker instant dot tick,stacking 5 pieces set bonuses with deaths,ect)having a problem now. The 1vXers that didn't do that seem to be doing okay.
Perhaps you should go back to the auction house as your comments on PvP are nearly always uneducated drivel.
I never did any of that garbage and I'm not having "Problems" but that doesn't mean I can't recognize that the combat has become very routine and boring. It almost feels like PvP has beenr educed to a PvE encounter.You want to maximize your damage and ensure just enough health/passive defenses to remain alive.
Utterly boring and static gameplay.
Well you went the route of salty personal attacks quick. Apparently you think you know me or something, but sadly I have no idea who you are, so I can't respond in kind to your personal attacks.
On to what few points you made, I don't really find the decreased effectiveness of oneshot cheese builds to be boring or static. I also do not think that a PvE spec would be remotely productive in IC outside of maybe the large group aoe bomb tactic.
I only know your name from two places, the Auction houses (everywhere haha) and these forums. Usually your comments are pretty barbed towards "1vXers" with labels of exploits and such and I've never seen you post anything that was sensible even if I disagreed with you. If I had to guess you're strictly a PvE'r who ventures into PvP only occasionally.
1-shot cheese builds were a *very* small percentage of the PvP content in 1.6. Most of the experienced PvPers that I've played with disdain these players ourselves and find the majority of them to be pretty bad players (although there are many gank players who are very good as well). Increasing the health bonus of Cyrodiil back to its 1.5 status would have helped with that issue more than anything else.
Now speaking from a PvE perspective I'm the furthest thing from an expert but I tanked a Vet DSA on my first time playing it in 3 months(never beat it before that), having never tanked it or anything else before in full PvP gear with my exact PvP build other than a couple of taunts swapped in. We had maybe 6 deaths on the full clear, usually because I didn't taunt something in time because I've never done it and had no idea what was spawning that hit hard where. PvE from my experience is quite easy because once you know a piece of content you can repeat your performance exactly and enjoy the same success. This isn't true in PvP.
Now I think any build could do very well in Cyrodiil or IC if it was an effective PvE build with some exceptions. In IC today I think that is more true than it ever was because right now min/maxing your damage and healing will reward you more than anything else. That is what "Static and boring" is to me. When the fluidity and pacing of combat becomes very predictable and routine it becomes boring and more down to best gear and CPs than skill.
The benefits of have good timing and reactions and *correctly* responding to the right threat at the right time was drastically reduced or even eliminated. The balance between needing to balance offense and defense was upset. The ability of the few to conquer the many was significantly impacted. None of these things are positive IMO.
Okay, I posted my first item to an guild trader in about a month and a half Monday and 98% of my postings this year have been on 1 trader, but I will let you continue to roll with whatever relevant point you were trying make by tying my auctions postings, my previous forum posts, and my opinion on the 2.1 damage reduction together.
Your guess would be wrong. I PVP regularly. I also do not dislike 1vXers or PvP.
As someone that pvps and pves regularly, I completely disagree with everything you are saying about builds. If the builds were interchangeable I wouldn't need Wykkyd's Outfitter and Superstar to manage all of my various PVP and PvE builds.
I do agree that the benefit of reaction time has been reduced. However, I am okay without people not taking a 22k snipe because they failed to react to it.
Perhaps I'm confusing your name with a similar sounding player that I see auctions everywhere for, there was no point to that line of thinking other than whoever that person is likely is making a mint in gold.
I'm not saying the builds are interchangeable, I'm saying the differences between a fully optimized PvE or PvP build are not that big unless you're competing for score or trying to 1 v X. In the Zerg-optimized PvP of 2.1 a PvE build can do very well with very little changes. I don't really know how to make that point clearer.
If you died to a 22K snipe in 1.6 you either didn't have enough hitpoints and were glass cannon and forgot to shield yourself, you had no critical resistance, or you were a filthy vampire. I never had issues with snipes unless I was hit while fighting other players....but that's why everyone hates a ganker.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Phoenix99✭✭✭There was never a skill in question, there was always the gear and CP advantage... skill was a marginal factor when it came to fights.
Want to test your skill, play competitive PvP games.5
