There can only be Templar (healing/tanking problem).

Zsymon · August 2015

A tank simply does not have enough stamina now to do his job in difficult content, even if he conserves it as best as possible. The only way around this, is to have a Templar healer continuously throwing Luminous Shards. This means that only Templars can be healers now, and all other classes will be banned from healing any kind of PvE content. As soon as a non Templar joins as a healer, he/she will be kicked for sure.

Even if you use two tanks, the constant stamina starvation will always force people to look for Templars and reject any other classes from joining as healers.

This can't be the intention, can it ZOS? I know it can't be the intention because you did your best improving the healing capacity of all classes, even though spells like Igneous Shield are useless because of the overflow bug with small shields, but you tried.

My suggestion is to remove the stamina-restoring aspect of Spear Shards, to make healing more fair for all classes. Then if tanking is too difficult you can always adjust the general stamina recovery aspect of tanking.

Yaewinn · August 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Even if you use two tanks, the constant stamina starvation will always force people to look for Templars and reject any other classes from joining as healers.

Templars are the only Full-Healer, they were and they will be.

Vaelen · August 2015

There can be only Shards... No Shards = Kicked from group, it is law dictum by ZOS.

Kaliki · August 2015

Oh and dont forget repentance.
I already get scolded if I dont do both constantly.

tinythinker · August 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

My suggestion is to remove the stamina-restoring aspect of Spear Shards, to make healing more fair for all classes. Then if tanking is too difficult you can always adjust the general stamina recovery aspect of tanking.

Yes, nerf Templars because of a recovery mechanic decision by ZOS. They need to be good at/needed for fewer things.

Zsymon · August 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

My suggestion is to remove the stamina-restoring aspect of Spear Shards, to make healing more fair for all classes. Then if tanking is too difficult you can always adjust the general stamina recovery aspect of tanking.

Yes, nerf Templars because of a recovery mechanic decision by ZOS. They need to be good at/needed for fewer things.

They don't have to nerf it, they can just replace it with something else that doesn't involve restoring stamina. I think you agree that all classes should be able to be healers no? Right now because of Shards, only Templars can be healers.

SeptimusDova · August 2015

Somone called us Nerfplars

Vaelen · August 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Somone called us Nerfplars

At least you're all not Nerfgon Knights, which have gotten nerfed every single patch since launch.

Anhedonie · August 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

A tank simply does not have enough stamina now to do his job in difficult content, even if he conserves it as best as possible. The only way around this, is to have a Templar healer continuously throwing Luminous Shards. This means that only Templars can be healers now, and all other classes will be banned from healing any kind of PvE content. As soon as a non Templar joins as a healer, he/she will be kicked for sure.

Even if you use two tanks, the constant stamina starvation will always force people to look for Templars and reject any other classes from joining as healers.

This can't be the intention, can it ZOS? I know it can't be the intention because you did your best improving the healing capacity of all classes, even though spells like Igneous Shield are useless because of the overflow bug with small shields, but you tried.

My suggestion is to remove the stamina-restoring aspect of Spear Shards, to make healing more fair for all classes. Then if tanking is too difficult you can always adjust the general stamina recovery aspect of tanking.

My suggestion is you go and *** yourself. Nerfplars had enough nerfs.

Introducing new gear like restoration master staff might be a solution.

SeptimusDova · August 2015

Vaelen you have fire and fire is cool. What is Zo$ thinking. A lot of people would like to get inside their head. Especially Psychiatrists.

If you take away shards with stamina then you remove a helpful thing to tanks and other stamina users.

Attacking your ally is not cool.

homeslice already posted a video of a niteblayd tank who did not use shards. Templar is healer preferred but not mandatory.
every nerf thread even in jest can trigger a thought in a devs mind. And they think dangerous thoughts.

Vaelen · August 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Vaelen you have fire and fire is cool. What is Zo$ thinking. A lot of people would like to get inside their head. Especially Psychiatrists.

ZOS giveth Fire, and ZOS taketh it away. Don't you dare question the ZOS gods' decision!

Saddiq · August 2015

What good would constantly throwing Shards do? My understanding is there's a 15 sec cool down per recipient on the synergy. I don't think you can be constantly fed shards.

SeptimusDova · August 2015

ZOS=Zeus

Anhedonie · August 2015

Saddiq wrote: »

What good would constantly throwing Shards do? My understanding is there's a 15 sec cool down per recipient on the synergy. I don't think you can be constantly fed shards.

10 seconds, afaik

Scyantific · August 2015

I needed a good laugh. I'll report back next week after multiple successful runs on a healer sorc.

Springt-Über-Zwerge · August 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

A tank simply does not have enough stamina now to do his job in difficult content, even if he conserves it as best as possible. The only way around this, is to have a Templar healer continuously throwing Luminous Shards. This means that only Templars can be healers now, and all other classes will be banned from healing any kind of PvE content. As soon as a non Templar joins as a healer, he/she will be kicked for sure.

Even if you use two tanks, the constant stamina starvation will always force people to look for Templars and reject any other classes from joining as healers.

This can't be the intention, can it ZOS? I know it can't be the intention because you did your best improving the healing capacity of all classes, even though spells like Igneous Shield are useless because of the overflow bug with small shields, but you tried.

My suggestion is to remove the stamina-restoring aspect of Spear Shards, to make healing more fair for all classes. Then if tanking is too difficult you can always adjust the general stamina recovery aspect of tanking.

Need my lol button back
Are you serious? You want to completely nerf the only thing templars are good at?
Please next time you make such a suggestion play a templar first and until then stfu

Springt-Über-Zwerge · August 2015

Vaelen wrote: »

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Somone called us Nerfplars

At least you're all not Nerfgon Knights, which have gotten nerfed every single patch since launch.

Well templars too the difference is dks started at a way better points than templars

Kaliki · August 2015

Btw.: Spamming shards is acually not so much of a hyperbole as many may think. On trash pulls spamming it will do not so bad damage and one NPC will be stunned, while this one breaks out the next one will be stunned, etc. I.e. less hits on the tank, hence stamina saved. ;-p

eliisra · August 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

My suggestion is to remove the stamina-restoring aspect of Spear Shards, to make healing more fair for all classes. Then if tanking is too difficult you can always adjust the general stamina recovery aspect of tanking.

Yes, nerf Templars because of a recovery mechanic decision by ZOS. They need to be good at/needed for fewer things.

They don't have to nerf it, they can just replace it with something else that doesn't involve restoring stamina. I think you agree that all classes should be able to be healers no? Right now because of Shards, only Templars can be healers.

But tanks will still need stamina support, with or without a templar in the group. Better solution would be a non class support skills with a synergy that restored stamina.

ZoS could for example re-design the second morph of Necrotic Orb. No one uses the healing version or Energy Orb anyway. Give it a stamina combustion. So when you activate the synergy from the orb and the explosion hits enemies, you get some stamina back instantly. It definitely not unreasonable.

RoyJade · August 2015

Just give blood altar a stamina morph (stamina regen instead of life regen, and give stamina with the synergy). Spear will still be more useful, but all classes will be able to give stamina back to the tank without a master restro staff. No need to nerf templar.

I can't wait to tank in 1.7, with this new difficulty I think it will be fun. A lot of whipe, but a lot of marvelous victory too !

AhPook_Is_Here · August 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

A tank simply does not have enough stamina now to do his job in difficult content, even if he conserves it as best as possible. The only way around this, is to have a Templar healer continuously throwing Luminous Shards. This means that only Templars can be healers now, and all other classes will be banned from healing any kind of PvE content. As soon as a non Templar joins as a healer, he/she will be kicked for sure.

Even if you use two tanks, the constant stamina starvation will always force people to look for Templars and reject any other classes from joining as healers.

This can't be the intention, can it ZOS? I know it can't be the intention because you did your best improving the healing capacity of all classes, even though spells like Igneous Shield are useless because of the overflow bug with small shields, but you tried.

My suggestion is to remove the stamina-restoring aspect of Spear Shards, to make healing more fair for all classes. Then if tanking is too difficult you can always adjust the general stamina recovery aspect of tanking.

Well you could have a templar DPS tossing the tank shards, of course the templar DPS will be really pissed as he won't be doing any dps without someone tossing shards to him. Guess he stil has repentance, but what DPS worth his salt would waste a GCD on repentance, that could lower his parse by 3k!

Zsymon · August 2015

I don't want to nerf Templars anymore than anyone, they need buffs on all aspects, but the only other solution is giving all other healers a stamina restoring option as well.

Sure you might be successful as a Sorcerer healer if you're good, but you need to think about all those non-Templar healers that will get rejected from groups because people don't want to play without Shards. If the content is massively easier with a Templar, people are not going to risk wasting their time wiping, they'll just kick you and wait for a Templar.

xaraan · August 2015

The more ZoS has worked on 'high end' content, the more they've created a situation that requires you to have a Templar healer. This is just one more nail in that coffin.

Though to be honest, it also depends on what type of tank you have. Some of my tanks are now even more suited to the role than others. All this stam/block change did was create more of a class gap in the role and restrict build variety (neither are a good thing, esp with this game).

Springt-Über-Zwerge · August 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

I don't want to nerf Templars anymore than anyone, they need buffs on all aspects, but the only other solution is giving all other healers a stamina restoring option as well.

Sure you might be successful as a Sorcerer healer if you're good, but you need to think about all those non-Templar healers that will get rejected from groups because people don't want to play without Shards. If the content is massively easier with a Templar, people are not going to risk wasting their time wiping, they'll just kick you and wait for a Templar.

Will be probably the same if you try to magicka dps with a templar because radiant was nerfed without any buffs in return. When I do templar healer I can pull like 11-15k dps depending on the group and the dungeon. But whenever I look into ftcs damage recab I can see that rd is 50% of my dps. So idk but I think the templar dps will stay the same but the dps of all other classes will go up by a significant amount. I saw a post where someone said they pulled 35k dps in SO with a sorc. A templar can get nowhere near that dps. So basically 1 sorc dps = 2 templard dps

Springt-Über-Zwerge · August 2015

And you complain when templars are useful for at least 1 role?

usmcjdking · August 2015

As a Redguard Templar I was somewhat able to get around this by going WEIGHTED on my S&B weapon trait. The 8% extra speed is just enough to sneak in a heavy attack in between nearly all boss basic attacks.

Also, to the guy who suggested a blood altar change, I fully agree. It's completely underwhelming right now.

Zsymon · August 2015

usmcjdking wrote: »

As a Redguard Templar I was somewhat able to get around this by going WEIGHTED on my S&B weapon trait. The 8% extra speed is just enough to sneak in a heavy attack in between nearly all boss basic attacks.

Also, to the guy who suggested a blood altar change, I fully agree. It's completely underwhelming right now.

I'm quite sure weighted only affects how fast your light attacks are.

actosh · August 2015

Weightet should apply to light and heavy attacks. Zos needs to raise the values for that trait massivly!

glavius · August 2015

There is no overflow dmg bug.....

omfgitsbatman · August 2015

Just wondering... What's preventing using a templar dps for shards? Also, I've tanked quite a few things on pts with no shards.

This mindset of Templar = healer is terrible in many ways. People pigeonhole people who run templars with intentions of doing other things besides healing. People are also under the assumption that non templar healers are sub par.

Each class has a niche in healing. Templars happen to be the best at spread out bomb healing. Nightblades are the best with hots. DK's are the best stack healers. Sorcs... well... they can stack a lot of magicka XD...

There is absolutely no reason to say that only templars that are healers can help the group with shards if they are needed. Why not kick a dps from the group to make room for a templar instead of a healer?

Templar =/= healer

Kas · August 2015

pretty sure you could still run non-trial (and non-ic) content with pretty much everything (and your eyes closed). if i was perma blocking i couldn't take part in the dps *** when tanking. ofc, i stopped a long time ago.

granted, for trials and really hart hitting mobs, this will indeed be a problem. but most current vet dungeos are a joke. if there's no tank when doing daily, there is none. not really missed. if there's no healer, get some selfheal and unless it's BC/CoH that works... vigor is usually enough. pretty sure if you wanted, you could clear all vet dungeos with, say, 4 stam NBs or pretty much everything