Saturn wrote: »

Murmeltier wrote: »

For any DK, Templar and Healing Ward using Class, it is the same but these Classes have a Selfheal, the Sorcerer not. The Restoration Staff Skills arent good enough to Counter Green Dragonblood or Breath of Life.

You have the Clannfear selfheal which in Update 7 I think will give you 42% of Max Health returned when it dies or is desummoned, this heal can be affected by sets that increase healing taken or Champion Point passives such as Blessed (increases healing done) or Quick Recovery (increases healing taken).

It is a VERY good selfheal. NB selfheal capabilities are much lesser than the Sorc's, but most NB's use resto staff (or Vigour) heals in combination with Shadow Cloak, which works very well.

And while the Shieldbreaker is extremely overpowered at the moment, there are plenty of ways a Sorc can still be good after Update 7. Don't just assume the class is "dying" without properly testing it out. Just like the perma-blockers have to adapt, so too do Shieldstacking Sorcs have to adapt (and honestly Sorcs needed a nerf, they are stupidly overpowered on Live).

I have not fought many sorcs on the PTS, but those I have encountered have been quite fearsome. Also, Storm Atronach in a small alley is ridiculously scary, lol.

Wasn't that a bug that has since been fixed?

Dracane wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The big issue is the stacking of nerfs on Bolt Escape. BE has been nerfed so many times in a somewhat clumsy manner that doesn't really address the main issue people have with it but makes the skill very frustrating to use as it is the ONLY skill that punishes you for spamming it. Then, as magica regen and magicka pools increase, the nerf becomes less effective and people start complaining about it again.

The new nerf seems to address that but is way too harsh as is because it punishes ALL uses of BE and not just port spamming. I support the changes with one important Caveat that will reward offensive use of bolt escape, reward kiting (which is a sorcerer survivability standard) and only punish those that spam bolt escape just to disengage.

• The 50% cost increase should be removed after landing a successfull heavy attack.
• For Streak, this should be expanded to all melee attacks so that stamina sorcerers can actually use this class defining ability.

I have a full justification HERE. Please put this in your signature so you can save intelegent sorc gameplay and only punish those that use BE for spamming across the map.

Offensive use of Bolt Escape (especially by stamina sorcs) should NOT be punished so harshly

Exactly. That's the same problem I see with cloak.
Both, Bolt Escape and Cloak should not be punished if you use them for offense. But both should be punished when abused as an escape.

No they shouldn't.
This is extremely poor reasoning.
Bolt is a completely different animal, allowing you to jump chasms between cliffs/rocks, get access to spots otherwise unobtainable, cross major distance really quickly, also do damage/stun/proc disintegrate. Making them the same is extremely dishonest.

While I am against the nerf of Bolt, saying Cloak needs one because Bolt got one is rather petty and disingenuous. Get over your Nightblades are OP stigma already...

Xeniph wrote: »

Would be nice if the people who have not, or are unable to log on to the PTS, would refrain from the doom and gloom. Especially without testing themselves, or relying on video's/hearsay. Opinions are like, well lets just say everyone has one, but uniformed opinions are especially smelly.

Sorcs are not a dying class and imo shields, or the interaction between multiple, do still need some form of adjustment. However they are still quite strong on the pts. And this opinion is based of playing my own sorc and having played against many. In no way is this class in danger of dying off in it's current form.

I welcome all feedback and good discussions. But if you haven't tested this stuff yourself, the normal forums are === > way.

If i am one of the people that was directed at. I have played my Sorc build on the PTS as i've said. I didn't say they where weak i said they where boring in PTS. I've said in another thread. i can understand if they wanted to add that Stacking effect on BoL because that is the main escape skill, but streak is the more offensive morph and much easier to chase down it makes little sense why Streak is also hit with that nerf.

CP5 wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Murmeltier wrote: »

For any DK, Templar and Healing Ward using Class, it is the same but these Classes have a Selfheal, the Sorcerer not. The Restoration Staff Skills arent good enough to Counter Green Dragonblood or Breath of Life.

You have the Clannfear selfheal which in Update 7 I think will give you 42% of Max Health returned when it dies or is desummoned, this heal can be affected by sets that increase healing taken or Champion Point passives such as Blessed (increases healing done) or Quick Recovery (increases healing taken).

It is a VERY good selfheal. NB selfheal capabilities are much lesser than the Sorc's, but most NB's use resto staff (or Vigour) heals in combination with Shadow Cloak, which works very well.

And while the Shieldbreaker is extremely overpowered at the moment, there are plenty of ways a Sorc can still be good after Update 7. Don't just assume the class is "dying" without properly testing it out. Just like the perma-blockers have to adapt, so too do Shieldstacking Sorcs have to adapt (and honestly Sorcs needed a nerf, they are stupidly overpowered on Live).

I have not fought many sorcs on the PTS, but those I have encountered have been quite fearsome. Also, Storm Atronach in a small alley is ridiculously scary, lol.

Wasn't that a bug that has since been fixed?

Which one?

I've been running a stamina sorc in 1.7.2, the shield breaker set and molag kena, I've said long before 1.7.2 came out, is stupid stupid. As a magicka sorcerer you're screwed in 1.7 lol, however as a stamina sorcerer, I must admit I've not had this much fun wrecking people before. Using Molag kena and shield breaker is nuts and the deeps is off the wall, despite the damage reduction and crazy nerf to set damage, I was still pulling off 9k with my energy overload light attacks. The synergy between critical surge and critical rush are wonderful too. Thundering presence is great for cloaking nightblades and shield breaker is a really great boost to dps, it's also really unfair on all those poor sorcs trying to bolt away.

So being on the otherside of the nerf hammer, I will admit that everything I've said so far about magicka sorcerers, is absolutely correct.

These are the skills you should not use as a magicka sorcerer:
Bolt escape - It boosts the DPS of my critical charge and gives me a bigger self heal.
Any sort of damage shield - this is death in a button, and love if you have the shield breaker set.

However these skills for a magicka should prove a little more useful:
Daedric mines - Honestly anyone using them anywhere except for doors in 1.6 is probably not actually using them, but in the IC they are better.
Curse - with molag kena active, this hurts a lot! I mean a lot!
Encase - is really useful in IC PvP, lock them down in with the trash ;D

Yes Magicka sorcerer is useless in PvP, I mean like seriously useless, its like have you ever accidently peed on your own foot before and then slipped and fallen face first into the urinal, but were glad that this time you were able to get a little in the bowl, despite it being a public relief area? - that useless.

But stamina sorcery is going really well, I admit I miss Hardened ward now, but as long as I'm crit hitting enough with my Khat, it's cool

kaithuzar wrote: »

Just because your previous play-style is no longer viable doesn't mean there isn't any other method for success.
Just because you can't escape as easily doesn't mean you still can't use BoL or streak as an offensive tool to win.

We will adapt, but it's sad and frustrating cos they nerfed one sorc skill that really didn't need it, cos some people hate sorcs like they hate wasps; irrationally.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Yea sorry don't know what PTS you're on but there's still pleanty of sorcs on my PTS still shield stacking away and spamming crystal frags. DK on the other hand are like real dragons now and nearly extinct.

Crystal fragments spam does not exist. Crystal Shard spam probably, which takes 1 second to cast.

No no it does 3 to 4 of the 5 moves that kill most of the time is crystal fragments from the same guy.

The insta-cast frags has a 35% proc rate so you can't spam it as it relies on rng. You can spam the hard-cast but that's just silly cos it has a long cast time. Of course a 35% proc rate regularly results in 3 or 4 procs in a row, but this still ain't spamming sorry.

CP5 wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Murmeltier wrote: »

For any DK, Templar and Healing Ward using Class, it is the same but these Classes have a Selfheal, the Sorcerer not. The Restoration Staff Skills arent good enough to Counter Green Dragonblood or Breath of Life.

You have the Clannfear selfheal which in Update 7 I think will give you 42% of Max Health returned when it dies or is desummoned, this heal can be affected by sets that increase healing taken or Champion Point passives such as Blessed (increases healing done) or Quick Recovery (increases healing taken).

It is a VERY good selfheal. NB selfheal capabilities are much lesser than the Sorc's, but most NB's use resto staff (or Vigour) heals in combination with Shadow Cloak, which works very well.

And while the Shieldbreaker is extremely overpowered at the moment, there are plenty of ways a Sorc can still be good after Update 7. Don't just assume the class is "dying" without properly testing it out. Just like the perma-blockers have to adapt, so too do Shieldstacking Sorcs have to adapt (and honestly Sorcs needed a nerf, they are stupidly overpowered on Live).

I have not fought many sorcs on the PTS, but those I have encountered have been quite fearsome. Also, Storm Atronach in a small alley is ridiculously scary, lol.

Wasn't that a bug that has since been fixed?

Which one?

The up in clannfear % heal. I recall a thread about some 'hidden changes' found (like blood magic going from 8% to 9%) but it turned out those weren't intended, and I thought the 42% max hp heal was one of them.

They made this changes. But then in the last update, they reverted everything.
I'm not sure, if this was a bug. Because all of that was written in the tooltip, I just wrote this down here on forum.

However, 1% more healing from blood Magic is nothing. So who cares if it's there or not This passive never helped me.

Lucky28 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Stop comparing Cloak to Bolt Escape.
Stop pretending like there are anti-Bolt Escape potions.
Stop pretending like AoE damage breaks your Bolt Escape.
Stop pretending skills like Flare and Mark Target break your Bolt Escape.
Stop comparing Cloak to Bolt Escape.

Same thing. Both are, be wad, being abused as an escape tactic, but only one got nerfed. Time for cloak to get the same treatment. All those cries from the op NB community to nerf BE because they didn't kill them in Cyrodiil, BE gets nerfed, cloak is abused in the same manner, if not worse, and now NB's shed tears. The NB should have thought of the ripple effect before they cried and cried about BE. CLOAK IS OP AND NEEDS TO HAVE THE SAME PENALTY AS BE. Cloak is the ultimate middle finger mid fight. Time to balance that power out.

Indeed. Cloak needs the same threatment as bolt escape, this is more than necessary.

Great! Do we get anti-BE potions? Will BE break on AoE damage? Can I use Mark Target or Revealing Flare to stop you from Bolting?

Can't wait to spam Caltrops and forcing Sorcerers to dodge roll out of it before being able to Bolt away!

why do you keep repeating the same thing over and over?. Yes cloak has it's counters. guess what, so did streak and BoL and so does shield stacking. that doesn't stop people from "thinking" they are impossible to deal or just have a hard time dealing with them thus wanting them nerfed so PvP will be easier for them.

Because people keep repeating their 'X must be treated the same as Y' requests without thinking of the implications.

I would prefer nothing where nerfed, i really enjoyed the PvP in the current live. however, this patch is extremely unbalanced and pretty much destroys any chance new players have of countering.... well, anything really. So yeah.

I agree, I thought PVP was actually at a pretty decent spot, and only required a few tweaks and fixes, maybe a few overhauls to make some of the crap class skills that never get used a bit better for all the classes. Clearly though, ZOS decided the best thing to do would be to do a massive overhaul, shaking things up, seemingly with the hopes that it might settle down a bit again. They need to learn to stick with one system and method without changing up the whole formula every so often, and just work on balancing and improving the method they have chosen.

Nerf bolt escape more, they deserve it.

Farorin wrote: »

Aunatar wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Stop comparing Cloak to Bolt Escape.
Stop pretending like there are anti-Bolt Escape potions.
Stop pretending like AoE damage breaks your Bolt Escape.
Stop pretending skills like Flare and Mark Target break your Bolt Escape.
Stop comparing Cloak to Bolt Escape.

1) they are both escape/offensive skills
2) speed potions are enough to get a bolt-escaper; on live bow+speed buff is faster than BE, on PTS you can't BE forever
3) looks like you pretend Cloak is a weak ability. See point 4, but if you have to slot an AoE skill you can slot a gap closer too, same mechanism
4) they are called gap closers. You can chase a sorc using Crit rush, ambush, shielded assault, toppling charge, chains, leap, bolt escape too. (There is Purge to counter Mark Target, as there is immovable to counter a BE stun; note that you only get stunned with Ball of light., since streaks stuns in a line in front of the sorc)
5) again, cloak can be used as offense/escape: i see no 50% cost increase for Cloaks, even if a stamina bosmer NB can use it up to 10-12 times with a pot. I see no stamina sorcerers with more than 3 BE.

P.S. this is a personal consideration, but ai really think the time for "nerf sorcs" has passed, try PTS to believe me. NB is stronger than every other class, proof: I am a noob at playing stamina, but I get many more kills than deaths, either open world or duels. Against any class but NB.

1. yes they are
2. Chasing a bolt escaping sorc ends up in one of two undesireable options, they lead you to their allies and away from yours and you die, or you end up so far away from the main fight, you may as well have died.
3. see 4
4. Bolt escape overcomes many gap closers as the range of a gap closer isn't all that long, a smart sorc takes advantage of this. Also, if they stun you with their first one using one of the morphs, often you can't break free quick enough to get out of it.
5. Cloak is far easier to counter in a much more reliable way, using a much wider variety of counters. Also there are counters that are literally specifically for countering cloak, while many the counters used for bolt escape, such as gaining major expedition, can be used by the bolt escaper as well thus rendering them ineffective.

I am not one to cry for a nerf on sorcs, bolt, or anything, but the nerf on bolt isn't the end of the world, and no matter what you say, the nature, utility, and ease of countering for both bolt and cloak are not really comparable, they are vastly different skills with vastly different utility.

I think sorcs need a rework to improve many of their under powered and crap abilities, like most classes should get, but especially more so considering many of their token abilities have been nerfed, they do need more tweaks to ensure they remain viable.

I am sorry, but point 2 isn't constructive at all and point 4 is just false: every gap closer has enough range to get a bolt escaping sorc. If we are talking about Ball of Lightning (which has almost disappeared on live, completely useless on PTS), try immovable or immovable potions. Not to mention a gap closer also deals damage. Point 5.. you don't actually move while teleporting, so no real benefits from it. And as a magicka based sorc, you will NOT waste your stamina sprinting. Dark conversion would be a much more efficient use of your stamina.