This has become another nerf sorc thread < just saying

The issue isn't that there IS a lazy counter, but the way it's being approached. Heck I don't mind it shields could be bashed off, but as a set bonus... This is a huge step in the wrong direction. Gear shouldn't counter combat skill! might as well just play wow -.-

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

This has become another nerf sorc thread < just saying

The issue isn't that there IS a lazy counter, but the way it's being approached. Heck I don't mind it shields could be bashed off, but as a set bonus... This is a huge step in the wrong direction. Gear shouldn't counter combat skill! might as well just play wow -.-

Because pressing the same button over and over and over and over to have infinite shields is skill.....

Thanks, yeah it is. You can find it in the Daedric summoning line, twice in the earthen heart line, Aedric spear line and in the undaunted skill line, light armor skill line, restoration skill line, 2-handed skill line, S&B skill line and support skill line
I counted 9 different iterations that completely agree with your sarcasm. Not to mention enchants and other little quirky little things like that. Just in case you didn't know.

Edit: I forgot a n on my in xD

silky_soft wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

This has become another nerf sorc thread < just saying

The issue isn't that there IS a lazy counter, but the way it's being approached. Heck I don't mind it shields could be bashed off, but as a set bonus... This is a huge step in the wrong direction. Gear shouldn't counter combat skill! might as well just play wow -.-

Because pressing the same button over and over and over and over to have infinite shields is skill.....

Thanks, yeah it is. You can find it in the Daedric summoning line, twice in the earthen heart line, Aedric spear line and in the undaunted skill line, light armor skill line, restoration skill line, 2-handed skill line, S&B skill line and support skill line
I counted 9 different iterations that completely agree with your sarcasm. Not to mention enchants and other little quirky little things like that. Just in case you didn't know.

Edit: I forgot a n on my in xD

So... what you're saying is you want this set nerfed because it's a lazy fix. Want a real fix? Crit shields. Fixed

It's not a nerf, its a nerf if it's on live. I dunno take the Seducer set, the bonuses work to buff your magicka skill usage, the Torug's pact set has bonuses to buff your enchants, hunting rage set has bonuses to buff your stamina dps. The sets so far have been to buff and reward players using them; with their play style. This set isn't focussed on buffing players for choosing that set and play style, but it's focussed on punishing other players for using their play style. It's a flip in the fundamental set bonus mechanics. I don't want to be punished for playing a non temp healer, or a magicka sorcerer or a DK tank. This was designed with the intention in mind it would be a very niche set. But we know that's not going to be the case.

Shield breaker goes live, things are balanced
1 month in every Nb, which most PvPrs already are, is running shield breaker
2 months in pvp pop 90% Nb's 10% noobs or PvErs farming AP
3 months in It's a who drops cloak first comp.
4 months in 1.8 goes live, Nb's and bolt escape gets nerfed.
Start again

Yes I agree a counter is fine, but this should be more deeply considered.

On a side note. Yes I agree that making shields crittable would be a good solution instead of all the nerfs, but this can't happen. It works against ES lore, which is a very important and often overlooked part of the game. I need to draw a very sharp and clear line there, I agree and disagree with you.

Zlater wrote: »

2 months in pvp pop 90% Nb's

Good. Hopefully everyone is forced to go bow-only as well.
It'll be just like Call of Duty.

This set bonus should only apply to melee light attacks. Problem solved.

So stupid to have such an amazing set be removed or nerfed to uselessness.

Shield stacking is a huge issue. This set being melee only is balanced and fair risk/reward scenario!!!


DUUK

Ok, after time in pts today i'm slightly changing my stance on this topic.
Decrease the damage on this set or I'm not using healing ward any longer.
With double take up, with bubble up, I was dueling a stamblade who was just spamming bow light attack from a distance (we had each other marked)
Consistently hit for 2150 every time he drew back his bow!
Dumbest death recap I've ever seen (outside of wrecking blow spam)

Dracane wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

If you block the set, it shouldnt do OP dmg right? Or does it go trhough block?

I think the dmg is fine, but it has to be blockable lol.

Iya made a video. It completely ignores block. Atleast you can troll deftanks of your own faction by spamming healing ward on them.

Well it´s unresistable dmg, so it shouldn´t get mitigated by block.
If your Light Attacks ignore Harness or Bone Shield you shouldn´t get the Bonus though.
But 2k is quite fair considering that all non shield users also need to rely on other stuff once their standard defense mechanic gets countered.

But when you face undodgeable attacks, you can mitigate them with block and your spell resist/armour, so you can reduce almost 70% of the damages... you also got very solid hots and a strong self heal from time to time with rally. This only requires 2 slots when a sorc has to have healing springs, rapid regeneration and purge on his bar just to counter the shiedlbreaker set. Add to that that you're kinda forced to run healing ward, hardened ward and bolt escape (not even counting harness eventhough its a must). only 4 slots left for buffs, ccs and attacks. To compare with a stamblade, on your own build I can see 3 skills youre forced to run (vigor rally and cloak) which leave you with 7 slot for whatever you want. But I guess yeah, balanced.

To be honest I didn´t think of the set making non templar healers in group pointless if an enemy is running this set.

Anyway, there needs to be a counter and whatever it is - it needs to be effective.
Shield breaker might be too strong, we will see, but i can´t take a video about two player standing in front of each other serious.. sorry. You need to slot Heals to counter it as i need to slot other abilities to counter the counters (lol) of my defense abilities.
Well.. what isn´t *** up in this game anyway..

I agree that there needs to be a counter and that this set should be worth using.

But you don't need to attempt to taunt me with useless sets to justify your opinion bad cat ! BAD !

taunt with what set? Undaunted Unweaver.. Yes the first bonus are total crap as magicka build, but the fifth bonus counters dodge.. :P

But I will loose over 6000 Magicka when I choose to use it, which is around 600 Spell damage. So a big sacrifise, that weakens me overall, for liddle reward (if at all)

Running Shieldbreaker would also cost me a lot since you only get the armor pieces, but nvm :P

No. Shieldbreaker offers weapon damage, stamina recovery and max stamina. All 3 very valueable sets for a stamina DD. You have no big trade off when using this set. You have excellent 2-4 piece traits and can wreck shield users. This set is almost too good to not take it.

Except that 5 piece is very situational. Most would rather run any combination of weapon bonuses than a 5 piece that could be useful every once in a while. With how Blazing and Igneous are in this update, you will see a very large number of DK's and Templars not even bother using them. Further making the set situational.

Now I will give you, gankers with a gear swap addon will probably have this as an off-set eventually, but I highly doubt it will be one of the first sets they buy. We will have to see, but I won't be making a light attack spamming shieldbreaker build anytime soon.

Xeniph wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

If you block the set, it shouldnt do OP dmg right? Or does it go trhough block?

I think the dmg is fine, but it has to be blockable lol.

Iya made a video. It completely ignores block. Atleast you can troll deftanks of your own faction by spamming healing ward on them.

Well it´s unresistable dmg, so it shouldn´t get mitigated by block.
If your Light Attacks ignore Harness or Bone Shield you shouldn´t get the Bonus though.
But 2k is quite fair considering that all non shield users also need to rely on other stuff once their standard defense mechanic gets countered.

But when you face undodgeable attacks, you can mitigate them with block and your spell resist/armour, so you can reduce almost 70% of the damages... you also got very solid hots and a strong self heal from time to time with rally. This only requires 2 slots when a sorc has to have healing springs, rapid regeneration and purge on his bar just to counter the shiedlbreaker set. Add to that that you're kinda forced to run healing ward, hardened ward and bolt escape (not even counting harness eventhough its a must). only 4 slots left for buffs, ccs and attacks. To compare with a stamblade, on your own build I can see 3 skills youre forced to run (vigor rally and cloak) which leave you with 7 slot for whatever you want. But I guess yeah, balanced.

To be honest I didn´t think of the set making non templar healers in group pointless if an enemy is running this set.

Anyway, there needs to be a counter and whatever it is - it needs to be effective.
Shield breaker might be too strong, we will see, but i can´t take a video about two player standing in front of each other serious.. sorry. You need to slot Heals to counter it as i need to slot other abilities to counter the counters (lol) of my defense abilities.
Well.. what isn´t *** up in this game anyway..

I agree that there needs to be a counter and that this set should be worth using.

But you don't need to attempt to taunt me with useless sets to justify your opinion bad cat ! BAD !

taunt with what set? Undaunted Unweaver.. Yes the first bonus are total crap as magicka build, but the fifth bonus counters dodge.. :P

But I will loose over 6000 Magicka when I choose to use it, which is around 600 Spell damage. So a big sacrifise, that weakens me overall, for liddle reward (if at all)

Running Shieldbreaker would also cost me a lot since you only get the armor pieces, but nvm :P

No. Shieldbreaker offers weapon damage, stamina recovery and max stamina. All 3 very valueable sets for a stamina DD. You have no big trade off when using this set. You have excellent 2-4 piece traits and can wreck shield users. This set is almost too good to not take it.

Except that 5 piece is very situational. Most would rather run any combination of weapon bonuses than a 5 piece that could be useful every once in a while. With how Blazing and Igneous are in this update, you will see a very large number of DK's and Templars not even bother using them. Further making the set situational.

Now I will give you, gankers with a gear swap addon will probably have this as an off-set eventually, but I highly doubt it will be one of the first sets they buy. We will have to see, but I won't be making a light attack spamming shieldbreaker build anytime soon.

and that is wrong it "procs" upon EVERY defensive ability used by the attacked one every defensive ability regardless of shields, block, dodge, evade, reflective scales. that *** procs ALL the freaking time.

it needs to be changed to a true shieldbraker by adding its dmg to any attack with 1sec CD if that attack is compensated by a shield.

Personally I think the design isnt that terrible but the value is too high, around 1.5k would seem fair to me. Although this is still a bit more than the unresistable damage would be if it were affected by the Cyrodiil battle spirit damage debuff.

Someone mentioned a 2 second CD for the unresistable dmg effect, that might make it a bit weak against sorcs but probably fair against the rest of the classes.

Laggus wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Looks like the SHIELD BREAKER set is working as intended.

How would you like a DODGE BREAKER, CLOAK BREAKER or BLOCK BREAKER set (I know, there is a bug that lets the shield breaker ignore blocks anyway at the moment)

Guess many people would complain and call these sets OP. But as long as you're not affected yourself, it's easy to make fun of others and say things are fine and should remain OP, right ?

Those sets would all be fine with me.

Also, the bolded statement is ironic consider all the people calling for 1.6 sorcs to remain OP and untouched by any changes like this.

Actually I think you will find that most sorcs in this thread have said over and over that they agree a counter to shields is needed, so it is not about maintaining the status quo at all. This set has several flaws which have been pointed out several times (take the time to read the thread and you will see what they are).

Shields need looking at, but this typically half arsed solution offered by Zenimax is not a solution at all, it's just going to be the cause of more problems in live PvP. If people are too stupid or unwilling to see this, then I hope they enjoy it when it goes live :-).

And anytime ZoS say they will touch anyones shields there were threads created complaining about it by those same Sorcerers that currently say shields need looking at (critting shields for example). ZoS were warned over and over again during the last major PTS that Sorcerers shields were OP and carried on regardless leaving it until now to do anything about it.

Having to wear 5 pieces of armour to counter shields is not better than fixing shields to a more manageable level but it is easier (lazier) and ZoS can tick that box that they did something!

I still don´t think sorcshields are super op in the current grp meta. Healing ward is most likely. Once you coordinate dmg with a grp of 3 or more people everything dies. The problem with the current metagame a sorc without their shield is a 1 or twoshot. Healing is no vaible option on any class not wearing S&B and blocking (which is still no option due to sorcs not having access to a class spammable dmg ability).
It´s a little more complicated with 2.0 but for 2.1 and the increased ttk i think all reasonable sorcerers or magica players using resto staff agree that shields need tuning.

Hell i would like crits on shields myself to make critsurge a vaible skill and scathing mage a desireable set just like the thiefstone a good mundus...
But this would require some tuning definetly.

Dracane wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

This has become another nerf sorc thread < just saying

The issue isn't that there IS a lazy counter, but the way it's being approached. Heck I don't mind it shields could be bashed off, but as a set bonus... This is a huge step in the wrong direction. Gear shouldn't counter combat skill! might as well just play wow -.-

Because pressing the same button over and over and over and over to have infinite shields is skill.....

Because shields cost nothing and light attacks cost a bunch of ressources ?

Are you saying Sorcs have resource management issues and can't keep shields up indefinately?
EDIT..double entry

Dracane wrote: »

Laggus wrote: »

Are you saying Sorcs have resource management issues and can't keep shields up indefinately?

Dracane wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Zlater wrote: »

This has become another nerf sorc thread < just saying

The issue isn't that there IS a lazy counter, but the way it's being approached. Heck I don't mind it shields could be bashed off, but as a set bonus... This is a huge step in the wrong direction. Gear shouldn't counter combat skill! might as well just play wow -.-

Because pressing the same button over and over and over and over to have infinite shields is skill.....

Because shields cost nothing and light attacks cost a bunch of ressources ?

Are you saying Sorcs have resource management issues and can't keep shields up indefinately?

Yep, that's what I'm saying. They can keep them up due to a bug caused by Harness Magicka. If you combine it with another shield, it restores a bunch of Magicka even when you're hit by physical attacks. That's why they can maintain them for a long time.

As soon as this is fixed, there will be no infinite shield stacking. I know what I'm talking about, because I don't use Harness Magicka anymore and I run out of ressources very very fast. Harness Magicka alone is the reason, why Sorcerers can maintain this.

Only one half of the medal i think. You can build for around 1500 magica reg currently with the sacrifice of about 180 spelldmg (magica converted to spelldmg for this) whereas you sit at about 900 when not doing it. For pvp templates 180 spelldmg vs ~600 magica reg are a no brainer.
With 1500 or more regeneration you can keep casting shields infinitely. So he has a point.

Edit: It´s a nobrainer for most pvp templates. But like everything it depends on personal playstyle.

Zlater wrote: »

This has become another nerf sorc thread < just saying

The issue isn't that there IS a lazy counter, but the way it's being approached. Heck I don't mind it shields could be bashed off, but as a set bonus... This is a huge step in the wrong direction. Gear shouldn't counter combat skill! might as well just play wow -.-

Halleluja!

coyteriarwb17_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Ok everyone just think about it for a second. No sheild up get hit for 5k plus dps. With sheild no damage till down. Wearing this set, 2100 dps. You still minimize damage dealt. You just are not mitigating all of it. How is that op? That is what it is intended to do. It takes a minimum of 17 hits to kill a target and upwards of 32. That is without the target moving or fighting what so ever. I mean come on ppl.

I have an idea then:
Invisible breaker: Are able to detect all invisible and crouched enemies within visible range.
Healing breaker: Able to prevent healing effects per attack on a target for 3 seconds.
Reflective breaker: Able to prevent your attacks from being reflected.

Hmm sounds about right for a shield breaker set family.

An addition:

After X your attacks are undodgeable for 3 seconds.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Ok everyone just think about it for a second. No sheild up get hit for 5k plus dps. With sheild no damage till down. Wearing this set, 2100 dps. You still minimize damage dealt. You just are not mitigating all of it. How is that op? That is what it is intended to do. It takes a minimum of 17 hits to kill a target and upwards of 32. That is without the target moving or fighting what so ever. I mean come on ppl.

In most cases you are minimalizing incoming damage by using shields even against this set, in some cases you are maximizing it.
It makes synergies between shields and other skills useless (igenous shield + dragon blood), it makes smaller shields harmful (frost staffs, weapon enchants etc.), it turns Annulment and Bone Shield into nothing but damage buffs for the enemy, it counters a Sorcerer's main defense and healing (Hardened Ward + Healing Ward), making them unable to fight back.

Honestly, if this set is so well thought out, why don't players just take unavoidable damage when an enemy player hits them while they have a shield up, anyway? This set is not a well thought out idea, rather looks like something they came up with because of complaining, thought the idea was cool and went with it.