Alcast wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I knew it'd be less than on Live, but I didn't expect that drastic differences.

Sharpened Mace on live should "only" be providing a 10-15% difference.

I'd be curious about what gear you were wearing, since many of the current sets are now pretty bad on PTS.


5x Hunding's, 5x Ravager & 2x Nerien'eth/Kena will probably end up being the way to go

Same as on live, 5x Hundings, 5x Ravager, 2x Master Dagger (Sharpened)

Scyantific wrote: »

I call BS. I main a Sorc and even I know that magicka Sorcs have the worst sustained DPS out of all the classes.

Please check your facts.

dude, just lol, I dont even know where to begin to tell you how wrong you are..

Still 2x sharpened daggers and not maces were over-reducing the armor of the enemy on live. Even worse offenders were the sharpened maces that tests demonstrated that one sharpened mace reduced enemy armor by 70%.

Changing from another trait to 2x sharpened weapons (not maces) equated to a 10-14% DPS increase on live even before calculating the loss of the DPS of the previous weapons (precise, weighted etc).

Atm 1 sharpend weapon adds 4% extra damage against high armored targets on PTS and factoring in the loss of the previous trait it is around 2% DPS increase.

Seems to be working accordingly. However, tooltip numbers of separate stamina abilities have to be reconsidered.

Alcast wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I knew it'd be less than on Live, but I didn't expect that drastic differences.

Sharpened Mace on live should "only" be providing a 10-15% difference.

I'd be curious about what gear you were wearing, since many of the current sets are now pretty bad on PTS.


5x Hunding's, 5x Ravager & 2x Nerien'eth/Kena will probably end up being the way to go

Same as on live, 5x Hundings, 5x Ravager, 2x Master Dagger (Sharpened)

Scyantific wrote: »

I call BS. I main a Sorc and even I know that magicka Sorcs have the worst sustained DPS out of all the classes.

Please check your facts.

dude, just lol, I dont even know where to begin to tell you how wrong you are..

Still 2x sharpened daggers and not maces were over-reducing the armor of the enemy on live. Even worse offenders were the sharpened maces that tests demonstrated that one sharpened mace reduced enemy armor by 70%.

Changing from another trait to 2x sharpened weapons (not maces) equated to a 10-14% DPS increase on live even before calculating the loss of the DPS of the previous weapons (precise, weighted etc).

Atm 1 sharpend weapon adds 4% extra damage against high armored targets on PTS and factoring in the loss of the previous trait it is around 2% DPS increase.

Seems to be working accordingly. However, tooltip numbers of separate stamina abilities have to be reconsidered.

On live I am at 100% Penetration+Camo and doing around 21k+ on Manti with 400 CP. Now Sharpened fix, camo 2x nerf, ravager nerf puts stam dps around 13-16k, this is ridiculous compared to Magicka classes which easily pull 18-25k (and Sorc 30k+)

Its just sad that Stamina only could compete due to Sharpened bug ><

Yes but as long as these bugs exist and people overexploit them there is no possibility of actual balance to happen. Don't forget that devs get the wrong impression and numbers from their internal sniffers and people that actually trying to play the game as it is supposed to, get shafted beyond imagination.

Now stick with how proper penetration is supposed to work and wait for next patch for the stamina abilities to be reconsidered for their damage according to actual numbers. Or you can just go back to magicka and skip a patch.

Alcast wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I knew it'd be less than on Live, but I didn't expect that drastic differences.

Sharpened Mace on live should "only" be providing a 10-15% difference.

I'd be curious about what gear you were wearing, since many of the current sets are now pretty bad on PTS.


5x Hunding's, 5x Ravager & 2x Nerien'eth/Kena will probably end up being the way to go

Same as on live, 5x Hundings, 5x Ravager, 2x Master Dagger (Sharpened)

Scyantific wrote: »

I call BS. I main a Sorc and even I know that magicka Sorcs have the worst sustained DPS out of all the classes.

Please check your facts.

dude, just lol, I dont even know where to begin to tell you how wrong you are..

Still 2x sharpened daggers and not maces were over-reducing the armor of the enemy on live. Even worse offenders were the sharpened maces that tests demonstrated that one sharpened mace reduced enemy armor by 70%.

Changing from another trait to 2x sharpened weapons (not maces) equated to a 10-14% DPS increase on live even before calculating the loss of the DPS of the previous weapons (precise, weighted etc).

Atm 1 sharpend weapon adds 4% extra damage against high armored targets on PTS and factoring in the loss of the previous trait it is around 2% DPS increase.

Seems to be working accordingly. However, tooltip numbers of separate stamina abilities have to be reconsidered.

On live I am at 100% Penetration+Camo and doing around 21k+ on Manti with 400 CP. Now Sharpened fix, camo 2x nerf, ravager nerf puts stam dps around 13-16k, this is ridiculous compared to Magicka classes which easily pull 18-25k (and Sorc 30k+)

Its just sad that Stamina only could compete due to Sharpened bug ><

Yes but as long as these bugs exist and people overexploit them there is no possibility of actual balance to happen. Don't forget that devs get the wrong impression and numbers from their internal sniffers and people that actually trying to play the game as it is supposed to, get shafted beyond imagination.

Now stick with how proper penetration is supposed to work and wait for next patch for the stamina abilities to be reconsidered for their damage according to actual numbers. Or you can just go back to magicka and skip a patch.

Skipping next patch is not an option due to CP. Well, I have ready to go Magicka classes, but I love stamina, and Its just sad to see that we are going bach to 1.3 where 99% of the population was Magicka.

Don't blame anyone else but us for this and certainly not ZoS. Well you can blame them for leaving bugs like Sharpened Maces, Nirnhorned, double stacking Mundus for over 8 months now in the game. But apart from that they balance according to the numbers they get.

One of the most weird answers I got from a guy I said he is exploiting the sharpened mace bug was that he cannot play with something else because it is BiS.....Can you imagine actually calling a bugged thing BiS. This generation of gamers really surprises me.

Alcast wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I knew it'd be less than on Live, but I didn't expect that drastic differences.

Sharpened Mace on live should "only" be providing a 10-15% difference.

I'd be curious about what gear you were wearing, since many of the current sets are now pretty bad on PTS.


5x Hunding's, 5x Ravager & 2x Nerien'eth/Kena will probably end up being the way to go

Same as on live, 5x Hundings, 5x Ravager, 2x Master Dagger (Sharpened)

Scyantific wrote: »

I call BS. I main a Sorc and even I know that magicka Sorcs have the worst sustained DPS out of all the classes.

Please check your facts.

dude, just lol, I dont even know where to begin to tell you how wrong you are..

Still 2x sharpened daggers and not maces were over-reducing the armor of the enemy on live. Even worse offenders were the sharpened maces that tests demonstrated that one sharpened mace reduced enemy armor by 70%.

Changing from another trait to 2x sharpened weapons (not maces) equated to a 10-14% DPS increase on live even before calculating the loss of the DPS of the previous weapons (precise, weighted etc).

Atm 1 sharpend weapon adds 4% extra damage against high armored targets on PTS and factoring in the loss of the previous trait it is around 2% DPS increase.

Seems to be working accordingly. However, tooltip numbers of separate stamina abilities have to be reconsidered.

On live I am at 100% Penetration+Camo and doing around 21k+ on Manti with 400 CP. Now Sharpened fix, camo 2x nerf, ravager nerf puts stam dps around 13-16k, this is ridiculous compared to Magicka classes which easily pull 18-25k (and Sorc 30k+)

Its just sad that Stamina only could compete due to Sharpened bug ><

Yes but as long as these bugs exist and people overexploit them there is no possibility of actual balance to happen. Don't forget that devs get the wrong impression and numbers from their internal sniffers and people that actually trying to play the game as it is supposed to, get shafted beyond imagination.

Now stick with how proper penetration is supposed to work and wait for next patch for the stamina abilities to be reconsidered for their damage according to actual numbers. Or you can just go back to magicka and skip a patch.

Skipping next patch is not an option due to CP. Well, I have ready to go Magicka classes, but I love stamina, and Its just sad to see that we are going bach to 1.3 where 99% of the population was Magicka.

Don't blame anyone else but us for this and certainly not ZoS. Well you can blame them for leaving bugs like Sharpened Maces, Nirnhorned, double stacking Mundus for over 8 months now in the game. But apart from that they balance according to the numbers they get.

One of the most weird answers I got from a guy I said he is exploiting the sharpened mace bug was that he cannot play with something else because it is BiS.....Can you imagine actually calling a bugged thing BiS. This generation of gamers really surprises me.

The issue is ZOS, they do not know how to balance this game, I mean its fine fixing bugs, but now that they did they should realizse stamina is broken once again.

And again, the responsibilty for this miss is ZOS

Partly true. Not 100% accurate if they depend on live numbers to see how things are. None says that they shouldn't have other ways to sniff numbers or make proper comparisons. But sniffing numbers from live is the most accurate way to compare things. GG gamers....now let's wait for update 8 for stamina abilities to be rebalanced.

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

.....Can you imagine actually calling a bugged thing BiS. This generation of gamers really surprises me.

Your attitude blows my mind.

1. ZOS had no clue Sharpened Mace was bugged before we tested it extensively and provided tons of feedback. I did submit a feedback in 1.6 PTS about that. Still it took them forever to fix.
2. There are 3 options for Stamina users on the current live server: Use a Sharpened Mace + Camo Hunter, reroll a Magicka DK, stop doing competitive PvE. So yeah, I DO blame ZOS, because it's obvious that if Stamina requires 2 major bugs to be even with Magicka on live server, the balance will shift in a major way towards Magicka once those bugs get fixed.

"This generation of gamers" is the same as any generation before. They want to compete against each other on even fields and they will always be sad if the game dev cant give them those environment. ZOS delayed the inevidable balance issue by leaving those bugs in the game way longer than nessessary but at some point, they will have to look at it or we're back to Elder Staffs Online like when the game was launched. I liked the diversity and freedom of choice to go Stam or Magicka that we had until now...yeah it was based on bugs...but StarCraft 1 was also balanced by accident and the high skill cap because Blizz couldnt program a more intelligent KI...on the same note, ESO was more balanced with those bugs than it seems to be after fixing...

Alcast wrote: »

We did a run on PTS (Ping 190/ FPS huge drops bc of god knows what)

Single Target:
Stamina DK/Temp average dps on Manti 13-16k
Magicka Sorc average dps on Manti 25k+
Magicka DK average dps on Manti 18k+
Stamina AoE does 3x less dmg than on live.

On live(without this freaking ping+no fps drops) Stamina might be able to get 17-20k dps.
But Sorcs are going to hit 35k+ dps.

so its either reroll Sorc or quit the game

Its good that you fixed Sharpened bug, but now balance is broken once again gg.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober

Ok now I am sure I don't know how to play my sorc: how is possibile for a magicka sorc to have a sustained damage of 25k?
Overload doesn't last the entire fight, so surely I'm missing something
(I have 4xMK gold, 2xtorug pact gold nirnhoned on the weapon, 2x cyrodil light ring, etc etc, and I'm lucky if I pull 13k ST w/o overload)

Can some of these sorc post a screenshot in which they show 25kdmg/sec after e meaningfull fight?
Pwease!

Jeckll wrote: »

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Yes they did and they even said they were working on a fix on ESO live 20. So please go back to your mentality and leave people that try to play clean. Don't try to ease your morals by making excuses. Games or RL morals are morals.

I dont need to justify anything and I dont have any moral issues. I explained in detail what's going on. Most people would have no clue about issues like Sharpened Mace if people like Alcast and me would have brought it to attention. Search this forum, you'll find several threads about it where I shared detailed testing to make it easier for ZOS to find the issue and fix it.

What have you done to help exactly? It's easy to crucify people because they share other believes instead of helping to solve the core issue. My "mentality" is that we have to find all those issues to help ZOS fix them. Lets assume for a moment this game was console only - no one would have ever realised what's bugged and what not. You want to play clean? Without us finding those things, you wouldnt even know what's clean and what not. Now we're the bad guys for pointing out the flaws of the game. We dont want unfair advantages, we want a balanced game and if noone tells the world what's not working as intended, nothing will change.

First of all I have modified my referred post heavily. Anyway, you ask what I have done? Actually me and a friend of mine have tested all this on live and even went as much to bug report and even contact them on ESO live in order to get a definite answer from them on whether they are working on a fix. And we did get an answer.

Because we do not post as much on the forums doesn't mean we do not do things. So save your judgment for something/someone else.

Edit - Apart from the testing we went back to normal setups without exploits. Testing lasted one play session....It was enough to get hard numbers. We didn't have to keep these setups because we felt that due to ZOS balancing issues we were entitled and justified to do so....

ragespell wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

We did a run on PTS (Ping 190/ FPS huge drops bc of god knows what)

Single Target:
Stamina DK/Temp average dps on Manti 13-16k
Magicka Sorc average dps on Manti 25k+
Magicka DK average dps on Manti 18k+
Stamina AoE does 3x less dmg than on live.

On live(without this freaking ping+no fps drops) Stamina might be able to get 17-20k dps.
But Sorcs are going to hit 35k+ dps.

so its either reroll Sorc or quit the game

Its good that you fixed Sharpened bug, but now balance is broken once again gg.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober

Ok now I am sure I don't know how to play my sorc: how is possibile for a magicka sorc to have a sustained damage of 25k?
Overload doesn't last the entire fight, so surely I'm missing something
(I have 4xMK gold, 2xtorug pact gold nirnhoned on the weapon, 2x cyrodil light ring, etc etc, and I'm lucky if I pull 13k ST w/o overload)

Dont forget this is with lag and ***, when that goes live, sorc will be 35kdps on manti. And no, you dont need sustain if all have 35k dps. Manti down in 40s, overload lasts 50s

kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »

Because we do not post as much on the forums doesn't mean we do not do things. So save your judgment for something/someone else.
.

Holy cow, batmat. You judge me heavily in your initial statement, making all kinds of assumptions about me, and now I have to save my judgements?! Let's be realistic here for a second. You can tell me tons of stuff what you have done and what not and I cant say if that's true or not while my findings are everywhere to be found in this forum and on Tamriel Foundry. But I will give you the benefit of a doubt and say that you're telling the truth and I appoligize for raging after I read your initial post and I shouldnt judge your dedication to the game based on your thoughts.

Seems we should both be a bit more respectful with others :P

Alcast wrote: »

Dont forget this is with lag and ***, when that goes live, sorc will be 35kdps on manti. And no, you dont need sustain if all have 35k dps. Manti down in 40s, overload lasts 50s

OK, fair enough. But still, my overload hit 23k crit, I don't see how can I pull 25k or 35k. Are the new sets that good?

ragespell wrote: »

Or am I THAT bad!?!

a big potion to solid DPS comes from a favorable group setup that supports your DPS...did you get Combat Prayer / Warhorn etc. The highest DPS is a group effort, not only your individual skill.

ragespell wrote: »

Or am I THAT bad!?!

kena gives you 6xx more spell dmg, the apprentice after the change gives you spell dmg on a value like warrior for stamina builds does so you´ll get around 1+k more spell dmg than now. wich is a significant increase.

but those numbers clearly indicate that there are some significant errors still existing within their resistence/penetration calculation. otherwise magica with lower tooltip values on all abilities than stamina can´t come out on top...

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Dont forget this is with lag and ***, when that goes live, sorc will be 35kdps on manti. And no, you dont need sustain if all have 35k dps. Manti down in 40s, overload lasts 50s

OK, fair enough. But still, my overload hit 23k crit, I don't see how can I pull 25k or 35k. Are the new sets that good?

Your overload should crit for 40-45k

When? Where? HOW???

This is number is unbelievable, without how you get it. 23k okay, 27k, maybe. But 45k???

25k uncrit, with CP to critdmg overload crit with 43,5k

This should be possible