20 percent more Stam recovery for sorcs wasn't the best idea, here's a suggestion.

GreyRanger · August 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

That having said, buffing something with a toggle is not a buff at all. I dont understand why ZOS tries to force toggles on to our bars, they take up too much space for a minimal effect and they make builds boring. The siphoning attacks toggle from NBs got changed into a timed buff, please do this for all the boring toggles in the game!

It is funny that Sorcs got 0 relief from the Togglemancer build mess. This was discussed when 1.6 came out and it was promised that this would be looked at/adjusted with the next DLC. So instead of decreasing toggles, which are boring, they stack buffs on them to make it even more necessary to load your bar with toggles and 1-2 active abilities you can hit over, and over and over.

Promised changes from 1.6 that don't seem to have been addressed (in my view):
Viable Stam DPS sorcs (there has been some effort, but really you will never see a stam sorc on the leader boards in the current state)

Viable Tank: nothing meaningful
Viable/competitive healer: nothing meaningful
Toggle profusion and the dull Togglemancer builds: either nothing or getting worse

I appreciate that balancing magicka, stamina, PVP, and PVE is tough and probably impossible while managing a huge new release, it is just discouraging to wait so long for promised changes see the current state.

eliisra · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

on live in pvp there are already 70% sorcs, after this patch, 90%.

Other classes face extinction

You forget that 40-50% of the PvP population are NB's. But rest do seems to me mostly sorcs lol.

I also think this buff seem to benefit the wrong guys. Poor stamina sorcs will never be that great or popular anyway, because they still lack all these basic stam morphs for overall playability. This changes nothing for them.

Than there's fotm magicka sorcerers. Their only weakness right now is stamina management, especially for break free and block. So it's very nice of ZOS to help them with that and give 20% recovery

OGLezard · August 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

on live in pvp there are already 70% sorcs, after this patch, 90%.

Other classes face extinction

You forget that 40-50% of the PvP population are NB's. But rest do seems to me mostly sorcs lol.

I also think this buff seem to benefit the wrong guys. Poor stamina sorcs will never be that great or popular anyway, because they still lack all these basic stam morphs for overall playability. This changes nothing for them.

Than there's fotm magicka sorcerers. Their only weakness right now is stamina management, especially for break free and block. So it's very nice of ZOS to help them with that and give 20% recovery

people see 20% and they lose their minds it is so funny......I have 700 stamina regen on my sorc....do you know what 20% of 700 is? Not enough for people to complain about when they say "way to help shield stacking sorcs" People get so confused and angry over a percent without ever actually doing math lol

Huggalump · August 2015

congrats on the 20% stam regen buff, magic sorcs!

DDuke · August 2015

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

Logic at its finest.

Also, who are the people here bashing Bound Armaments?

+8% stamina = around 2-4% increase in dmg, depending on your gear
+11% heavy attack dmg - those playing a stamina build know how strong heavy attacks are...

...and on top of that armour+spell resistance

And now also +2% weapon damage (another +1% damage) & 20% stamina regen

Give me that toggle, I'll slot it instantly on my NB (on both bars).

Dracane · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

Logic at its finest.

Also, who are the people here bashing Bound Armaments?

+8% stamina = around 2-4% increase in dmg, depending on your gear
+11% heavy attack dmg - those playing a stamina build know how strong heavy attacks are...

...and on top of that armour+spell resistance

And now also +2% weapon damage (another +1% damage) & 20% stamina regen

Give me that toggle, I'll slot it instantly on my NB (on both bars).

Nightblades get 8% Magicka for nothing, you can slot that ultimate and will get it. While Sorcerers must sacrifise 2-3 skill slots to achieve that. And Bound armor does nothing besides that. it drains the slots, gives this laughable bonus and takes away so much efficience. Nightblade has 15% more Magicka regen, Sorcerers only 10%, logic ? Wouldn't mind giving Nightblades more stam regen, but then give Sorcerers the Magicka regen.

And 960 armor is nothing, that's like 1% less damage.
Nightblades have no right to complain with their overpowered passives, Sorcerer is mostly trash. Rebate, Exploitation are trash even Capacitor and desintegration are barely recognizeable. While ALL Nightblade passives are extremely strong compared to any other class.

IxSTALKERxI · August 2015

I tried a stam sorc on PTS today (I don't play sorcs but i'm very familiar with NB's). Sorcs can get a higher stamina pool than any other class. I got mine up to 44k stamina with purple food (I wish I had blue) and template gear. That was also while having Molag Kena for weapon damage.

As a nightblade I used to use siphoning attacks a lot so I'm used to having 2 slots taken up by a toggle. So I didn't hesitate to have Bound Armaments on my bars.

I think stam sorcs are viable, but the abilities you have to use aren't as exciting as the other classes, I almost fell asleep. Other classes are way more fun as stam.

DDuke · August 2015

Dracane wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

Logic at its finest.

Also, who are the people here bashing Bound Armaments?

+8% stamina = around 2-4% increase in dmg, depending on your gear
+11% heavy attack dmg - those playing a stamina build know how strong heavy attacks are...

...and on top of that armour+spell resistance

And now also +2% weapon damage (another +1% damage) & 20% stamina regen

Give me that toggle, I'll slot it instantly on my NB (on both bars).

Nightblades get 8% Magicka for nothing, you can slot that ultimate and will get it. While Sorcerers must sacrifise 2-3 skill slots to achieve that. And Bound armor does nothing besides that. it drains the slots, gives this laughable bonus and takes away so much efficience. Nightblade has 15% more Magicka regen, Sorcerers only 10%, logic ? Wouldn't mind giving Nightblades more stam regen, but then give Sorcerers the Magicka regen.

And 960 armor is nothing, that's like 1% less damage.
Nightblades have no right to complain with their overpowered passives, Sorcerer is mostly trash. Rebate, Exploitation are trash even Capacitor and desintegration are barely recognizeable. While ALL Nightblade passives are extremely strong compared to any other class.

Well, that is not strictly true ^^

Trash NB passives:
Executioner
Pressure Points

And Dark Veil doesn't really buff anything, it just makes Shadow Abilities last as long as they're supposed to (so it kind of does nothing)

Also, you are "forced" to slot siphoning skills if you want the benefits of Magicka Flood (8% max magicka) & Soul Siphoner (3% healing done), which doesn't really work out for stam NBs... (those skills are very, very bad for stam NB)

Rest of the passives are good.

For sorcs, rest of the passives (the ones you didn't list) aren't only good, they're amazing.

Regardless, my main issue was the people claiming Bound Armaments is a bad skill or "waste of a slot". It's not, it is one of the best there are (I'd slot it for +11% heavy attack dmg alone).
Maybe the magicka version is bad for magicka sorcs, but as stamina you can't go wrong slotting it.

Well, good thing I have a VR8 orc stamina sorcerer. Time to level him up

Jar_Ek · August 2015

@lxSTALKERxl Mind telling what you used to get 40k stamina, and what your other stats were?

Merlight · August 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Live: FlatStamina * (ClassPassives + ArmorPassives + Potions) * ChampionPassives * (Racialpassive + WW + Vamp + formerEmp)
PTS: FlatStamina * Passives * ChampionPassives

Don't forget this hidden nerf.

Care to elaborate?

Snit · August 2015

Alcast wrote: »

on live in pvp there are already 70% sorcs, after this patch, 90%.

Other classes face extinction

It's difficult to take your posts seriously, when you confuse hyperbole with relevant facts.

Snit · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

X% applied to a stamina build is quite a lot more than X% applied to a magicka build. Percentage increases are larger when multiplied by a larger base number.

My NB gets a lot more out of the NB stam passive than my sorc will out of the sorc buff.

DDuke · August 2015

Snit wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

X% applied to a stamina build is quite a lot more than X% applied to a magicka build. Percentage increases are larger when multiplied by a larger base number.

My NB gets a lot more out of the NB stam passive than my sorc will out of the sorc buff.

Bolded the important part ;P

What I'm saying is, stam sorc looks like a candidate for the next FOTM with these changes

Dracane · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

Logic at its finest.

Also, who are the people here bashing Bound Armaments?

+8% stamina = around 2-4% increase in dmg, depending on your gear
+11% heavy attack dmg - those playing a stamina build know how strong heavy attacks are...

...and on top of that armour+spell resistance

And now also +2% weapon damage (another +1% damage) & 20% stamina regen

Give me that toggle, I'll slot it instantly on my NB (on both bars).

Nightblades get 8% Magicka for nothing, you can slot that ultimate and will get it. While Sorcerers must sacrifise 2-3 skill slots to achieve that. And Bound armor does nothing besides that. it drains the slots, gives this laughable bonus and takes away so much efficience. Nightblade has 15% more Magicka regen, Sorcerers only 10%, logic ? Wouldn't mind giving Nightblades more stam regen, but then give Sorcerers the Magicka regen.

And 960 armor is nothing, that's like 1% less damage.
Nightblades have no right to complain with their overpowered passives, Sorcerer is mostly trash. Rebate, Exploitation are trash even Capacitor and desintegration are barely recognizeable. While ALL Nightblade passives are extremely strong compared to any other class.

Well, that is not strictly true ^^

Trash NB passives:
Executioner
Pressure Points

And Dark Veil doesn't really buff anything, it just makes Shadow Abilities last as long as they're supposed to (so it kind of does nothing)

Also, you are "forced" to slot siphoning skills if you want the benefits of Magicka Flood (8% max magicka) & Soul Siphoner (3% healing done), which doesn't really work out for stam NBs... (those skills are very, very bad for stam NB)

Rest of the passives are good.

For sorcs, rest of the passives (the ones you didn't list) aren't only good, they're amazing.

Regardless, my main issue was the people claiming Bound Armaments is a bad skill or "waste of a slot". It's not, it is one of the best there are (I'd slot it for +11% heavy attack dmg alone).
Maybe the magicka version is bad for magicka sorcs, but as stamina you can't go wrong slotting it.

Well, good thing I have a VR8 orc stamina sorcerer. Time to level him up

Sorcerer has no amazing passives, rather Meh or okay.
And then we could consider the dark magic duration increase useless either, if we consider your duration passive useless.

CP5 · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

X% applied to a stamina build is quite a lot more than X% applied to a magicka build. Percentage increases are larger when multiplied by a larger base number.

My NB gets a lot more out of the NB stam passive than my sorc will out of the sorc buff.

Bolded the important part ;P

What I'm saying is, stam sorc looks like a candidate for the next FOTM with these changes

Let me rephrase the passives. 30% stamina regen at all times, or 20% stamina regen at the cost of 2 skills, which magicka sorcs already have covered but stamina sorcs need to gimp themselves to fill.

TBois · August 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@lxSTALKERxl Mind telling what you used to get 40k stamina, and what your other stats were?

I got almost 39k stam with little effort as a Bosmer. Sets: Molag Kena (1 light and 1 heavy; stam enchants), Essence Thief (5 medium; stam enchants), Agility on all weapons and robust jewlery (all regen enchants)

Given PTS food; Tower Mundus Stone; Bound Armaments

w/o rally and Molag Kena buff

I would be able to boost it a bit more with crafted food and if I was an Imperial.

I am a vamp on that char but no skills slotted. Two sorc skills slotted. I still have enough regen with this too.

Edit: Although I think the 20% regen buff was a lazy move on ZOS's part, I use Bound Armaments on live currently; so it will be effective with my build. What I think would have helped the class more would be bringing back our advantages from previous iterations of the game, i.e. highest weapon damage, better crit heals and highest mobility (streak before multiple nerfs and boundless storm).

Dracane · August 2015

sixuponthelot wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@lxSTALKERxl Mind telling what you used to get 40k stamina, and what your other stats were?

I got almost 39k stam with little effort as a Bosmer. Sets: Molag Kena (1 light and 1 heavy; stam enchants), Essence Thief (5 medium; stam enchants), Agility on all weapons and robust jewlery (all regen enchants)

Given PTS food; Tower Mundus Stone; Bound Armaments

I would be able to boost it a bit more with crafted food and if I was an Imperial.

I am a vamp on that char but no skills slotted. Two sorc skills slotted. I still have enough regen with this too.

Looks solid. With max effort and right class, you would have more stamina than I have Magicka.

Snit · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm saying is, stam sorc looks like a candidate for the next FOTM with these changes

Maybe. I've been thinking about what sorcs bring to the table as stamina builds, compared against the current gold-standard (NB). Here's how I see it:

Stamina Management. Sorc has a higher potential stamina recovery and max stamina. However, it costs the sorc two skill slots. Bound Armaments is the only skill in the daedric line with any use for stam builds.

Weapon Damage. Expert mage is nice, but stamina sorcs slot few sorc abilities. Master Assassin is fantastic, but it applies only in stealth. I think the winner here depends on whether your focus is PvE or PvP.

Attack Skills. Here's the biggest single difference. Surprise Attack is high damage, spammable, instant and provides a useful debuff. Sorcs have no useful stamina-based attack skills. On my NB, I vastly prefer Ambush and Surprise Attack to Crit Rush and Wrecking Blow, and the sorc would be stuck with the latter pairing.

Mobility. Both classes have easy access to Major Expedition. The NB version comes with better damage mitigation (dodge chance beats armor due to penetration issues), but the sorc version makes it impossible for enemies to see your animations clearly. Sorcs also have access to Bolt Escape, which is a heck of a magicka dump

Stealth. Cloak is really, really good, even on a stamina build. This is the major defensive ability sorcs lack.

Self-Heals. Both classes will rely on Vigor, and perhaps Rally.

Major Savagery. Sorcs have a class skill here, but it won't matter for most builds -- For 2H users, Rally is better anyway. For DW, Surge does have the advantage of buffing before a fight (and a bit of healing). Sorcs therefore have an advantage only if your build is DW/ Bow.

It's close enough to be interesting on paper. Given how much better stamina builds perform overall now in PvP, I hope race changes come to the crown shop at some point, so I can change my Breton Sorc into an Imperial and give it a shot. I suspect the NB actives (Surprise Attack, Ambush and Cloak) will continue to make them the top dog, though. ZOS never got around to giving stamina sorcs good skill morphs.

DDuke · August 2015

CP5 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

X% applied to a stamina build is quite a lot more than X% applied to a magicka build. Percentage increases are larger when multiplied by a larger base number.

My NB gets a lot more out of the NB stam passive than my sorc will out of the sorc buff.

Bolded the important part ;P

What I'm saying is, stam sorc looks like a candidate for the next FOTM with these changes

Let me rephrase the passives. 30% stamina regen at all times, or 20% stamina regen at the cost of 2 skills, which magicka sorcs already have covered but stamina sorcs need to gimp themselves to fill.

Again: Bound Armaments is an amazing skill, one I would like to have on my NB. It is definitely not going to gimp your stamina sorcerer lol

2% weapon dmg
20% regen
8% stamina
11% heavy attack damage

I would slot it for the heavy attack damage alone (you'll find out what I'm talking about once you get more used to a stam build).

Besides, what else would you have on your stam sorc bar anyway?

First Bar

Crit Rush
Vigor (Probably BoL/Streak here instead for 2% weapon dmg)
Wrecking Blow
Executioner

Second Bar

BoL/Streak (Probably Vigor here instead)
Thundering Presence
X
X

byrom101b16_ESO · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

Logic at its finest.

Also, who are the people here bashing Bound Armaments?

+8% stamina = around 2-4% increase in dmg, depending on your gear
+11% heavy attack dmg - those playing a stamina build know how strong heavy attacks are...

...and on top of that armour+spell resistance

And now also +2% weapon damage (another +1% damage) & 20% stamina regen

Give me that toggle, I'll slot it instantly on my NB (on both bars).

30% of four times what the Sorc has a boost of 20% towards is a very big difference.

You'd be absolutely outraged if Sorcs. got 20% MAGICKA regen. boost on top wouldn't you?

So let's not pretend we don't understand basic maths shall we..?

IxSTALKERxI · August 2015

sixuponthelot wrote: »

Jar_Ek wrote: »

@lxSTALKERxl Mind telling what you used to get 40k stamina, and what your other stats were?

I got almost 39k stam with little effort as a Bosmer. Sets: Molag Kena (1 light and 1 heavy; stam enchants), Essence Thief (5 medium; stam enchants), Agility on all weapons and robust jewlery (all regen enchants)

Given PTS food; Tower Mundus Stone; Bound Armaments

w/o rally and Molag Kena buff

I would be able to boost it a bit more with crafted food and if I was an Imperial.

I am a vamp on that char but no skills slotted. Two sorc skills slotted. I still have enough regen with this too.

Edit: Although I think the 20% regen buff was a lazy move on ZOS's part, I use Bound Armaments on live currently; so it will be effective with my build. What I think would have helped the class more would be bringing back our advantages from previous iterations of the game, i.e. highest weapon damage, better crit heals and highest mobility (streak before multiple nerfs and boundless storm).

^This

The secret is to be either imperial or redguard for 10% max stamina. I also used Tower mundus, Bound Armaments, masters bow which gives stamina while slotted.

Would be interesting to see a sorc emp with max stam lol.

olsborg · August 2015

The reason why "noone" want to use bound armaments in pvp is because it requires 2 slots, it would be ok if it was 1 slot, but too handicapping for your build with 2 slots.

CP5 · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

X% applied to a stamina build is quite a lot more than X% applied to a magicka build. Percentage increases are larger when multiplied by a larger base number.

My NB gets a lot more out of the NB stam passive than my sorc will out of the sorc buff.

Bolded the important part ;P

What I'm saying is, stam sorc looks like a candidate for the next FOTM with these changes

Let me rephrase the passives. 30% stamina regen at all times, or 20% stamina regen at the cost of 2 skills, which magicka sorcs already have covered but stamina sorcs need to gimp themselves to fill.

Again: Bound Armaments is an amazing skill, one I would like to have on my NB. It is definitely not going to gimp your stamina sorcerer lol

2% weapon dmg
20% regen
8% stamina
11% heavy attack damage

I would slot it for the heavy attack damage alone (you'll find out what I'm talking about once you get more used to a stam build).

Besides, what else would you have on your stam sorc bar anyway?
First Bar
Crit Rush
Vigor
Wrecking Blow
Executioner (Probably BoL/Streak here instead for 2% weapon dmg)
Second Bar
BoL/Streak (Probably Vigor here instead)
Thundering Presence
X
X

That's my problem, what else is there? Stam sorcs don't have much choice there, and your setup hints to the build using 2h which is even less choice unless there are more viable ways to use other weapons. The passives are nice, bound armaments is good, but there isn't the ability to pick different skills. If you see a stamina sorc you can almost know everything they will use.

DDuke · August 2015

CP5 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

X% applied to a stamina build is quite a lot more than X% applied to a magicka build. Percentage increases are larger when multiplied by a larger base number.

My NB gets a lot more out of the NB stam passive than my sorc will out of the sorc buff.

Bolded the important part ;P

What I'm saying is, stam sorc looks like a candidate for the next FOTM with these changes

Let me rephrase the passives. 30% stamina regen at all times, or 20% stamina regen at the cost of 2 skills, which magicka sorcs already have covered but stamina sorcs need to gimp themselves to fill.

Again: Bound Armaments is an amazing skill, one I would like to have on my NB. It is definitely not going to gimp your stamina sorcerer lol

2% weapon dmg
20% regen
8% stamina
11% heavy attack damage

I would slot it for the heavy attack damage alone (you'll find out what I'm talking about once you get more used to a stam build).

Besides, what else would you have on your stam sorc bar anyway?
First Bar
Crit Rush
Vigor
Wrecking Blow
Executioner (Probably BoL/Streak here instead for 2% weapon dmg)
Second Bar
BoL/Streak (Probably Vigor here instead)
Thundering Presence
X
X

That's my problem, what else is there? Stam sorcs don't have much choice there, and your setup hints to the build using 2h which is even less choice unless there are more viable ways to use other weapons. The passives are nice, bound armaments is good, but there isn't the ability to pick different skills. If you see a stamina sorc you can almost know everything they will use.

Well, of course there are more options, that was just an example. Not many from the class skills though, which I'd like to see changed at some point. Making pets scale based off the highest resource for instance could be interesting & would enable stamina pet builds.

I digress.

This is what I've been thinking of:

2H/DW

2H

Ulti: Flawless Dawnbreaker
Crit Rush
BoL (or Streak...)
Wrecking Blow
Restraining Prison - Rationale: roll dodge change has made this stronger, also provides a small heal to help with survivability.
Bound Armaments

DW

Ulti: Overload
Flying Blade
Blade Cloak
Thundering Presence
Steel Tornado
Bound Armaments

Overload Bar

Critical Surge
Vigor
Dark Deal
Evasion
Bound Armaments

This is of course assuming they fix the Overload exploit and you have to actually slot Bound Armaments on each bar

And yes, I know there's no Momentum in this build... that's what makes it interesting!

TBois · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

X% applied to a stamina build is quite a lot more than X% applied to a magicka build. Percentage increases are larger when multiplied by a larger base number.

My NB gets a lot more out of the NB stam passive than my sorc will out of the sorc buff.

Bolded the important part ;P

What I'm saying is, stam sorc looks like a candidate for the next FOTM with these changes

Let me rephrase the passives. 30% stamina regen at all times, or 20% stamina regen at the cost of 2 skills, which magicka sorcs already have covered but stamina sorcs need to gimp themselves to fill.

Again: Bound Armaments is an amazing skill, one I would like to have on my NB. It is definitely not going to gimp your stamina sorcerer lol

2% weapon dmg
20% regen
8% stamina
11% heavy attack damage

I would slot it for the heavy attack damage alone (you'll find out what I'm talking about once you get more used to a stam build).

Besides, what else would you have on your stam sorc bar anyway?
First Bar
Crit Rush
Vigor
Wrecking Blow
Executioner (Probably BoL/Streak here instead for 2% weapon dmg)
Second Bar
BoL/Streak (Probably Vigor here instead)
Thundering Presence
X
X

That's my problem, what else is there? Stam sorcs don't have much choice there, and your setup hints to the build using 2h which is even less choice unless there are more viable ways to use other weapons. The passives are nice, bound armaments is good, but there isn't the ability to pick different skills. If you see a stamina sorc you can almost know everything they will use.

Well, of course there are more options, that was just an example. Not many from the class skills though, which I'd like to see changed at some point. Making pets scale based off the highest resource for instance could be interesting & would enable stamina pet builds.

I digress.

This is what I've been thinking of:

2H/DW
2H
Ulti: Flawless Dawnbreaker
Crit Rush
BoL (or Streak...)
Wrecking Blow
Restraining Prison - Rationale: roll dodge change has made this stronger, also provides a small heal to help with survivability.
Bound Armaments
DW
Ulti: Overload
Flying Blade
Blade Cloak
Thundering Presence
Steel Tornado
Bound Armaments
Overload Bar
Critical Surge
Vigor
Dark Deal
Evasion
Bound Armaments

This is of course assuming they fix the Overload exploit and you have to actually slot Bound Armaments on each bar

And yes, I know there's no Momentum in this build... that's what makes it interesting!

Interesting, but maybe not that useful in solo PVP. I'm also unsure about your healing being on your overload bar.

This is what I like when I run solo:

2H/DW

2H

Ulti:Flawless Dawnbreaker
Boundless Storm
Bound Armaments
Rally
Wrecking Blow
Crit Rush

DW

Ulti: Bats
Streak/Crit Surge
Bound Armaments
Steel Tornado
Vigor
Shuffle

Hiero_Glyph · August 2015

I think that most players want the Stamina Sorc to be more of a Battle Mage than anything. ZoS needs to allow Stamina Sorcs to weave in spells with weapon skills all while using Stamina (not being a hybrid). Solving the skill toggle issue would go a long way and given how they changed Siphoning Strikes I think they have several options available. The fact that ZoS just tacked on a stamina regen bonus in a skill line that is mostly useless for Stamina Sorcs kind of addresses the problem of ZoS not understanding the real issue, Stamina Sorcs need Stamina morphs for actual spells.

Mr_Koh · August 2015

If they're going to stick with the 20 percent regen they should just give it to the class once unlocking the passive like they did with refreshing shadows on the nightblade so I wouldn't be stuck using bound armaments which I feel is a pve ability. Just don't limit me, no other class feels restricted in this way when choosing between magicka or stam sorcs should be no different. Please let me know if you guys agree.

Ezareth · August 2015

Merlight wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Live: FlatStamina * (ClassPassives + ArmorPassives + Potions) * ChampionPassives * (Racialpassive + WW + Vamp + formerEmp)
PTS: FlatStamina * Passives * ChampionPassives

Don't forget this hidden nerf.

Care to elaborate?

The way stam regen was calculated was changed or as Soulac mentioned Stealth-nerfed.

This really only greatly impacts players such as myself who were min/maxxing their stamina regen, other players shouldn't feel this change as much.

Dracane · August 2015

Mr_Koh wrote: »

If they're going to stick with the 20 percent regen they should just give it to the class once unlocking the passive like they did with refreshing shadows on the nightblade so I wouldn't be stuck using bound armaments which I feel is a pve ability. Just don't limit me, no other class feels restricted in this way when choosing between magicka or stam sorcs should be no different. Please let me know if you guys agree.

I think I agree.
If I was a Stamina Sorcerer, I would use Bound Armament, even though it totally destroys builds. Because it's the only helpfull thing for Stamina.

But it's mean to force Stamina Sorcerers to use any summoning ability if they don't want to (play the way you want honey

)

DDuke · August 2015

sixuponthelot wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

30% stam regen for NBs = omg omg nerf nerfFF!

20% stam regen for sorcs = this is perfectly fine and balanced, doesn't affect our stam regen much

X% applied to a stamina build is quite a lot more than X% applied to a magicka build. Percentage increases are larger when multiplied by a larger base number.

My NB gets a lot more out of the NB stam passive than my sorc will out of the sorc buff.

Bolded the important part ;P

What I'm saying is, stam sorc looks like a candidate for the next FOTM with these changes

Let me rephrase the passives. 30% stamina regen at all times, or 20% stamina regen at the cost of 2 skills, which magicka sorcs already have covered but stamina sorcs need to gimp themselves to fill.

Again: Bound Armaments is an amazing skill, one I would like to have on my NB. It is definitely not going to gimp your stamina sorcerer lol

2% weapon dmg
20% regen
8% stamina
11% heavy attack damage

I would slot it for the heavy attack damage alone (you'll find out what I'm talking about once you get more used to a stam build).

Besides, what else would you have on your stam sorc bar anyway?
First Bar
Crit Rush
Vigor
Wrecking Blow
Executioner (Probably BoL/Streak here instead for 2% weapon dmg)
Second Bar
BoL/Streak (Probably Vigor here instead)
Thundering Presence
X
X

That's my problem, what else is there? Stam sorcs don't have much choice there, and your setup hints to the build using 2h which is even less choice unless there are more viable ways to use other weapons. The passives are nice, bound armaments is good, but there isn't the ability to pick different skills. If you see a stamina sorc you can almost know everything they will use.

Well, of course there are more options, that was just an example. Not many from the class skills though, which I'd like to see changed at some point. Making pets scale based off the highest resource for instance could be interesting & would enable stamina pet builds.

I digress.

This is what I've been thinking of:

2H/DW
2H
Ulti: Flawless Dawnbreaker
Crit Rush
BoL (or Streak...)
Wrecking Blow
Restraining Prison - Rationale: roll dodge change has made this stronger, also provides a small heal to help with survivability.
Bound Armaments
DW
Ulti: Overload
Flying Blade
Blade Cloak
Thundering Presence
Steel Tornado
Bound Armaments
Overload Bar
Critical Surge
Vigor
Dark Deal
Evasion
Bound Armaments

This is of course assuming they fix the Overload exploit and you have to actually slot Bound Armaments on each bar

And yes, I know there's no Momentum in this build... that's what makes it interesting!

Interesting, but maybe not that useful in solo PVP. I'm also unsure about your healing being on your overload bar.

This is what I like when I run solo:

2H/DW
2H
Ulti:Flawless Dawnbreaker
Boundless Storm
Bound Armaments
Rally
Wrecking Blow
Crit Rush
DW
Ulti: Bats
Streak/Crit Surge
Bound Armaments
Steel Tornado
Vigor
Shuffle

Actually, my build is precisely made with 1vX in mind :P

I'll have to see how it works, but in theory just having Crit Surge, Elude & Thundering Presence active & using Bound Armaments should be enough to keep you alive now that dmg taken is significantly reduced. BoL is there for further survivability & to kite opponents (combined with Flying Blade).

Second bar is for dealing ranged dmg, further increased by Overload (with Molag Kena ofc) if you so choose, as well as some anti NB/AoE skills. That said, swapping Thundering Presence to Overload bar for Vigor or Dark Deal probably isn't a bad idea.

Still remains to be seen how this'll work out in practice, but I'm optimistic