Septimus_Magna wrote: »The fire weakness for vamps also was reported to be still 50% instead of 25%, has this been fixed yet?
Also I highly doubt you take 0 damage because thats not how damage is calculated in Cyrodiil. The outgoing damage is decreased by the battle buff, you mitigate 75% while in mist form. So in theory 4 outgoing damage would lead to 1 incoming damage if you leave out armor mitigation.
It's simple mathematics, if your damage is already reduced by 50% and you hit someone who has mist form which reduces it by 75% you should do 12.5% of your normal damage. HOWEVER, the percentage stuff in ESO is bonkers. I made an Argonian Dragonknight template toon, I *** you not, outside of Cyrodiil I can buff my Coagulating Blood to heal 88% of my missing health, inside Cyrodiil with the 50% nerf to healing it does 68% of my missing health, the math is like waaaay off when it comes to the way percentages behave. It seems to me like some of the buffs you can get are A ) not affected by battle spirit and B ) add on top of each other instead of increasing by the percentage stated, like for example 2% extra healing taken on top of 40%, wouldn't be 40.8% but rather 42% because the percentages behave weirdly. This is at least the case with Rapid Mending from the heavy armour tree.
FYI: that healing buff with Dragon Blood works on Live too, I just don't have an Argonian DK to give me those 9% extra healing taken from Quick to Mend. The above stated percentage (88%) is, I think, the max amount you can boost Dragon Blood to.
I think we have similar build..
Let me guess your build and explain the math:
Healing Taken:
Base 100%
Battle Spirit -50%
Quick Recovery (100) 15.8%
Coagulated Blood 8%
Burning Heart 2 12%
Quick to mend 9%
3 Piece of Unassailable 4%
4 Piece of Tormentor 8%
5 Piece of Sanctuary 16%
Total = 122.8%
Healing Done:
Igneous Shield 30%
Blessed (100) 25%
Ritual Mundus Stone 10%
3 Divine Trait = 2.25%
Total = 167.25%
Healing taken x healing done = 205.38%
Coagulated Blood 33% * 295.38% = 67.78%
I think you can get boost the heal further with combat medic
Septimus_Magna wrote: »The fire weakness for vamps also was reported to be still 50% instead of 25%, has this been fixed yet?
Also I highly doubt you take 0 damage because thats not how damage is calculated in Cyrodiil. The outgoing damage is decreased by the battle buff, you mitigate 75% while in mist form. So in theory 4 outgoing damage would lead to 1 incoming damage if you leave out armor mitigation.
It's simple mathematics, if your damage is already reduced by 50% and you hit someone who has mist form which reduces it by 75% you should do 12.5% of your normal damage. HOWEVER, the percentage stuff in ESO is bonkers. I made an Argonian Dragonknight template toon, I *** you not, outside of Cyrodiil I can buff my Coagulating Blood to heal 88% of my missing health, inside Cyrodiil with the 50% nerf to healing it does 68% of my missing health, the math is like waaaay off when it comes to the way percentages behave. It seems to me like some of the buffs you can get are A ) not affected by battle spirit and B ) add on top of each other instead of increasing by the percentage stated, like for example 2% extra healing taken on top of 40%, wouldn't be 40.8% but rather 42% because the percentages behave weirdly. This is at least the case with Rapid Mending from the heavy armour tree.
FYI: that healing buff with Dragon Blood works on Live too, I just don't have an Argonian DK to give me those 9% extra healing taken from Quick to Mend. The above stated percentage (88%) is, I think, the max amount you can boost Dragon Blood to.
I think we have similar build..
Let me guess your build and explain the math:
Healing Taken:
Base 100%
Battle Spirit -50%
Quick Recovery (100) 15.8%
Coagulated Blood 8%
Burning Heart 2 12%
Quick to mend 9%
3 Piece of Unassailable 4%
4 Piece of Tormentor 8%
5 Piece of Sanctuary 16%
Total = 122.8%
Healing Done:
Igneous Shield 30%
Blessed (100) 25%
Ritual Mundus Stone 10%
3 Divine Trait = 2.25%
Total = 167.25%
Healing taken x healing done = 205.38%
Coagulated Blood 33% * 295.38% = 67.78%
I think you can get boost the heal further with combat medic
Just imagine... all ZOS had to ****ing do, was return to the old health/mag/stam ratio we had back in 1.5. TTK issue solved.
Instead, now we have a MASSIVE can of worms with all these blanket calculations and extra layers of coding...
Unbelievable. Their logic bewilders me.
I see whats happening - Mist Form is the new Bolt Escape.
Before you grab that pitchfork and join the mob remind yourselves mist form fits on anyone's hotbar.
I see whats happening - Mist Form is the new Bolt Escape.
Before you grab that pitchfork and join the mob remind yourselves mist form fits on anyone's hotbar.
@Radburn no what you are seeing is Mist form not working as intended when it comes to stacking with ANY form of damage mitigation and to be specific the battle spirit buff in pvp that reduces ALL damage. They are being added together granting 100% damage mitigation....... Guess you are ok with that though right?
Were you one of the people who HATED bolt escape, but would run like the flash across cyrodil? :P
I see whats happening - Mist Form is the new Bolt Escape.
Before you grab that pitchfork and join the mob remind yourselves mist form fits on anyone's hotbar.
@Radburn no what you are seeing is Mist form not working as intended when it comes to stacking with ANY form of damage mitigation and to be specific the battle spirit buff in pvp that reduces ALL damage. They are being added together granting 100% damage mitigation....... Guess you are ok with that though right?
Were you one of the people who HATED bolt escape, but would run like the flash across cyrodil? :P
I'm a Templar :P
If there is some funky bug with Mist Form that does grant 100% immunity then it does need to be fixed. However, as a Templar with no other escape options I don't want to see this turn into a witch hunt where the ability gets nerfed to the point it isn't viable. Templar's need this ability in IC, our shield got nerfed into oblivion and without Mist form it would place us back at the very bottom of the food chain. I don't like the fact we need to rely on a vampire skill to have survival, but thats the way it is right now.
I thought about a fix for all these problems with Battle spirit and expalined it here :
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/207972/the-battle-spirit-fix
Take a look, it should solve most issues that skew balance on PTS so far.
Septimus_Magna wrote: »The fire weakness for vamps also was reported to be still 50% instead of 25%, has this been fixed yet?
Also I highly doubt you take 0 damage because thats not how damage is calculated in Cyrodiil. The outgoing damage is decreased by the battle buff, you mitigate 75% while in mist form. So in theory 4 outgoing damage would lead to 1 incoming damage if you leave out armor mitigation.
It's simple mathematics, if your damage is already reduced by 50% and you hit someone who has mist form which reduces it by 75% you should do 12.5% of your normal damage. HOWEVER, the percentage stuff in ESO is bonkers. I made an Argonian Dragonknight template toon, I *** you not, outside of Cyrodiil I can buff my Coagulating Blood to heal 88% of my missing health, inside Cyrodiil with the 50% nerf to healing it does 68% of my missing health, the math is like waaaay off when it comes to the way percentages behave. It seems to me like some of the buffs you can get are A ) not affected by battle spirit and B ) add on top of each other instead of increasing by the percentage stated, like for example 2% extra healing taken on top of 40%, wouldn't be 40.8% but rather 42% because the percentages behave weirdly. This is at least the case with Rapid Mending from the heavy armour tree.
FYI: that healing buff with Dragon Blood works on Live too, I just don't have an Argonian DK to give me those 9% extra healing taken from Quick to Mend. The above stated percentage (88%) is, I think, the max amount you can boost Dragon Blood to.
I think we have similar build..
Let me guess your build and explain the math:
Healing Taken:
Base 100%
Battle Spirit -50%
Quick Recovery (100) 15.8%
Coagulated Blood 8%
Burning Heart 2 12%
Quick to mend 9%
3 Piece of Unassailable 4%
4 Piece of Tormentor 8%
5 Piece of Sanctuary 16%
Total = 122.8%
Healing Done:
Igneous Shield 30%
Blessed (100) 25%
Ritual Mundus Stone 10%
3 Divine Trait = 2.25%
Total = 167.25%
Healing taken x healing done = 205.38%
Coagulated Blood 33% * 295.38% = 67.78%
I think you can get boost the heal further with combat medic
Septimus_Magna wrote: »The fire weakness for vamps also was reported to be still 50% instead of 25%, has this been fixed yet?
Also I highly doubt you take 0 damage because thats not how damage is calculated in Cyrodiil. The outgoing damage is decreased by the battle buff, you mitigate 75% while in mist form. So in theory 4 outgoing damage would lead to 1 incoming damage if you leave out armor mitigation.
It's simple mathematics, if your damage is already reduced by 50% and you hit someone who has mist form which reduces it by 75% you should do 12.5% of your normal damage. HOWEVER, the percentage stuff in ESO is bonkers. I made an Argonian Dragonknight template toon, I *** you not, outside of Cyrodiil I can buff my Coagulating Blood to heal 88% of my missing health, inside Cyrodiil with the 50% nerf to healing it does 68% of my missing health, the math is like waaaay off when it comes to the way percentages behave. It seems to me like some of the buffs you can get are A ) not affected by battle spirit and B ) add on top of each other instead of increasing by the percentage stated, like for example 2% extra healing taken on top of 40%, wouldn't be 40.8% but rather 42% because the percentages behave weirdly. This is at least the case with Rapid Mending from the heavy armour tree.
FYI: that healing buff with Dragon Blood works on Live too, I just don't have an Argonian DK to give me those 9% extra healing taken from Quick to Mend. The above stated percentage (88%) is, I think, the max amount you can boost Dragon Blood to.
I think we have similar build..
Let me guess your build and explain the math:
Healing Taken:
Base 100%
Battle Spirit -50%
Quick Recovery (100) 15.8%
Coagulated Blood 8%
Burning Heart 2 12%
Quick to mend 9%
3 Piece of Unassailable 4%
4 Piece of Tormentor 8%
5 Piece of Sanctuary 16%
Total = 122.8%
Healing Done:
Igneous Shield 30%
Blessed (100) 25%
Ritual Mundus Stone 10%
3 Divine Trait = 2.25%
Total = 167.25%
Healing taken x healing done = 205.38%
Coagulated Blood 33% * 295.38% = 67.78%
I think you can get boost the heal further with combat medic
Sorry for continuing to respond to this, but, I just managed to get 94.7% of missing health returned on my Argonian DK template toon, I got the Ritual Mundus, 7 pieces of heavy armour for 7% increased healing from Rapid Regen. Holy *** imagine if I could get some more sets with "healing taken" buff on them like Unassailable or something like that, I mean you could probably even use 5 pieces of healer's habit, which gives 8% increased healing. I am quite sure that as an Argonian Dragonknight it is possible to push Coagulating Blood to do 100% or more of your missing health, which is soooo broken!
Septimus_Magna wrote: »The fire weakness for vamps also was reported to be still 50% instead of 25%, has this been fixed yet?
Also I highly doubt you take 0 damage because thats not how damage is calculated in Cyrodiil. The outgoing damage is decreased by the battle buff, you mitigate 75% while in mist form. So in theory 4 outgoing damage would lead to 1 incoming damage if you leave out armor mitigation.
It's simple mathematics, if your damage is already reduced by 50% and you hit someone who has mist form which reduces it by 75% you should do 12.5% of your normal damage. HOWEVER, the percentage stuff in ESO is bonkers. I made an Argonian Dragonknight template toon, I *** you not, outside of Cyrodiil I can buff my Coagulating Blood to heal 88% of my missing health, inside Cyrodiil with the 50% nerf to healing it does 68% of my missing health, the math is like waaaay off when it comes to the way percentages behave. It seems to me like some of the buffs you can get are A ) not affected by battle spirit and B ) add on top of each other instead of increasing by the percentage stated, like for example 2% extra healing taken on top of 40%, wouldn't be 40.8% but rather 42% because the percentages behave weirdly. This is at least the case with Rapid Mending from the heavy armour tree.
FYI: that healing buff with Dragon Blood works on Live too, I just don't have an Argonian DK to give me those 9% extra healing taken from Quick to Mend. The above stated percentage (88%) is, I think, the max amount you can boost Dragon Blood to.
I think we have similar build..
Let me guess your build and explain the math:
Healing Taken:
Base 100%
Battle Spirit -50%
Quick Recovery (100) 15.8%
Coagulated Blood 8%
Burning Heart 2 12%
Quick to mend 9%
3 Piece of Unassailable 4%
4 Piece of Tormentor 8%
5 Piece of Sanctuary 16%
Total = 122.8%
Healing Done:
Igneous Shield 30%
Blessed (100) 25%
Ritual Mundus Stone 10%
3 Divine Trait = 2.25%
Total = 167.25%
Healing taken x healing done = 205.38%
Coagulated Blood 33% * 295.38% = 67.78%
I think you can get boost the heal further with combat medic
Sorry for continuing to respond to this, but, I just managed to get 94.7% of missing health returned on my Argonian DK template toon, I got the Ritual Mundus, 7 pieces of heavy armour for 7% increased healing from Rapid Regen. Holy *** imagine if I could get some more sets with "healing taken" buff on them like Unassailable or something like that, I mean you could probably even use 5 pieces of healer's habit, which gives 8% increased healing. I am quite sure that as an Argonian Dragonknight it is possible to push Coagulating Blood to do 100% or more of your missing health, which is soooo broken!
ATTENTION @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno ATTENTION
Please take note of the broken things happening........if any of this makes it to live and then we have to wait the classic amount of time for anything to be fixed, you know "next major update", I see more people leaving as more people roll this style of character........... ATTENTION
for healing taken buff we have sets like sanctuary or twilight's embrace (I'm not testing it yet, not sure if the 5 set bonus is "healing taken"). twilight's embrace is weaker but can be heavy armor that profit from rapid mending passive. Or combine this two for theoretically 26% healing taken buff + 4%/5% from rapid mending depends on what weapon you wanna use.
I do a little raw testing on live and pts, I think same category healing buff (received & taken or done & initiated) stack additively, then between category stack multiplicatively.
In other case (I'm not testing it yet), some people claim when they have battle spirit debuff and other healing debuff, their healing basically doesn't exist.
In this case, i think when battle spirit healing debuff (-50%) meet with major defile (-30%) you only received 20% healing.
combine it further with minor defile (-15%) and 100 point on defile champion, theoretically you can get -110% healing taken debuff.
So it's only take 1 major defile skill and 1 disease damage to make self healing build useless, unless you invest the whole thing into healing taken like in my build (which make the "least popular" argonian race more appealing), or you spam purge/purifying ritual (and pray your foe don't spam defile)
I agree with someone in this forum (forget his/her name), it's better to make battle spirit healing debuff and major/minor defile into different debuff category.
With the way thing stacking with battle spirit in PTS (including the damage resistance stack), I think battle spirit need to redesign completely.
Maybe its better to make regeneration slower so heal, damage, damage shield, less spamable and make combat more tactical.
or maybe we must reintroduce the soft cap back, but only in cyrodiil. With soft cap it will be easy to nerf or buff certain aspect that OP or UP for PVP.
sorry if my english is bad.
for healing taken buff we have sets like sanctuary or twilight's embrace (I'm not testing it yet, not sure if the 5 set bonus is "healing taken"). twilight's embrace is weaker but can be heavy armor that profit from rapid mending passive. Or combine this two for theoretically 26% healing taken buff + 4%/5% from rapid mending depends on what weapon you wanna use.
I do a little raw testing on live and pts, I think same category healing buff (received & taken or done & initiated) stack additively, then between category stack multiplicatively.
In other case (I'm not testing it yet), some people claim when they have battle spirit debuff and other healing debuff, their healing basically doesn't exist.
In this case, i think when battle spirit healing debuff (-50%) meet with major defile (-30%) you only received 20% healing.
combine it further with minor defile (-15%) and 100 point on defile champion, theoretically you can get -110% healing taken debuff.
So it's only take 1 major defile skill and 1 disease damage to make self healing build useless, unless you invest the whole thing into healing taken like in my build (which make the "least popular" argonian race more appealing), or you spam purge/purifying ritual (and pray your foe don't spam defile)
I agree with someone in this forum (forget his/her name), it's better to make battle spirit healing debuff and major/minor defile into different debuff category.
With the way thing stacking with battle spirit in PTS (including the damage resistance stack), I think battle spirit need to redesign completely.
Maybe its better to make regeneration slower so heal, damage, damage shield, less spamable and make combat more tactical.
or maybe we must reintroduce the soft cap back, but only in cyrodiil. With soft cap it will be easy to nerf or buff certain aspect that OP or UP for PVP.
sorry if my english is bad.
for healing taken buff we have sets like sanctuary or twilight's embrace (I'm not testing it yet, not sure if the 5 set bonus is "healing taken"). twilight's embrace is weaker but can be heavy armor that profit from rapid mending passive. Or combine this two for theoretically 26% healing taken buff + 4%/5% from rapid mending depends on what weapon you wanna use.
I do a little raw testing on live and pts, I think same category healing buff (received & taken or done & initiated) stack additively, then between category stack multiplicatively.
In other case (I'm not testing it yet), some people claim when they have battle spirit debuff and other healing debuff, their healing basically doesn't exist.
In this case, i think when battle spirit healing debuff (-50%) meet with major defile (-30%) you only received 20% healing.
combine it further with minor defile (-15%) and 100 point on defile champion, theoretically you can get -110% healing taken debuff.
So it's only take 1 major defile skill and 1 disease damage to make self healing build useless, unless you invest the whole thing into healing taken like in my build (which make the "least popular" argonian race more appealing), or you spam purge/purifying ritual (and pray your foe don't spam defile)
I agree with someone in this forum (forget his/her name), it's better to make battle spirit healing debuff and major/minor defile into different debuff category.
With the way thing stacking with battle spirit in PTS (including the damage resistance stack), I think battle spirit need to redesign completely.
Maybe its better to make regeneration slower so heal, damage, damage shield, less spamable and make combat more tactical.
or maybe we must reintroduce the soft cap back, but only in cyrodiil. With soft cap it will be easy to nerf or buff certain aspect that OP or UP for PVP.
sorry if my english is bad.
I cannot agree more, the whole Battle Spirit should be its own kind of buff / debuff, since we all know how weirdly things stack in this game. Essentially with the battle spirit debuff and both major + minor defile on you, your healing should never go to 0 as it would when you have a 100% healing debuff. It should essentially be 50% healing x(multiplied) with 0.55 (1 - 0.45) for the two debuffs = 27.5% healing. But then again the Quick to Mend passive from argonians should also increase your healing taken multiplicatively (x1.09), but it works additively (+9%), which is why it is so overpowered.
SIDENOTE: I realised that when I did my selfheal test in Cyrodiil that I was near a keep while having the 20% increased healing taken buff from Alliance War defensive passive, which is why earlier I wrongfully stated that the Battle Spirit 50% Healing Debuff wasn't applying correctly, which it does, more or less, just not near keeps when you have that special passive.
for healing taken buff we have sets like sanctuary or twilight's embrace (I'm not testing it yet, not sure if the 5 set bonus is "healing taken"). twilight's embrace is weaker but can be heavy armor that profit from rapid mending passive. Or combine this two for theoretically 26% healing taken buff + 4%/5% from rapid mending depends on what weapon you wanna use.
I do a little raw testing on live and pts, I think same category healing buff (received & taken or done & initiated) stack additively, then between category stack multiplicatively.
In other case (I'm not testing it yet), some people claim when they have battle spirit debuff and other healing debuff, their healing basically doesn't exist.
In this case, i think when battle spirit healing debuff (-50%) meet with major defile (-30%) you only received 20% healing.
combine it further with minor defile (-15%) and 100 point on defile champion, theoretically you can get -110% healing taken debuff.
So it's only take 1 major defile skill and 1 disease damage to make self healing build useless, unless you invest the whole thing into healing taken like in my build (which make the "least popular" argonian race more appealing), or you spam purge/purifying ritual (and pray your foe don't spam defile)
I agree with someone in this forum (forget his/her name), it's better to make battle spirit healing debuff and major/minor defile into different debuff category.
With the way thing stacking with battle spirit in PTS (including the damage resistance stack), I think battle spirit need to redesign completely.
Maybe its better to make regeneration slower so heal, damage, damage shield, less spamable and make combat more tactical.
or maybe we must reintroduce the soft cap back, but only in cyrodiil. With soft cap it will be easy to nerf or buff certain aspect that OP or UP for PVP.
sorry if my english is bad.
I cannot agree more, the whole Battle Spirit should be its own kind of buff / debuff, since we all know how weirdly things stack in this game. Essentially with the battle spirit debuff and both major + minor defile on you, your healing should never go to 0 as it would when you have a 100% healing debuff. It should essentially be 50% healing x(multiplied) with 0.55 (1 - 0.45) for the two debuffs = 27.5% healing. But then again the Quick to Mend passive from argonians should also increase your healing taken multiplicatively (x1.09), but it works additively (+9%), which is why it is so overpowered.
SIDENOTE: I realised that when I did my selfheal test in Cyrodiil that I was near a keep while having the 20% increased healing taken buff from Alliance War defensive passive, which is why earlier I wrongfully stated that the Battle Spirit 50% Healing Debuff wasn't applying correctly, which it does, more or less, just not near keeps when you have that special passive.
timidobserver wrote: »Cloak > mistform
Yup. So is bolt escape.
pre 1.7 sure..........