The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
We will be performing maintenance for patch 10.0.2 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC).
Mist Form+Battle spirit buff='s GG
-
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »The fire weakness for vamps also was reported to be still 50% instead of 25%, has this been fixed yet?
Also I highly doubt you take 0 damage because thats not how damage is calculated in Cyrodiil. The outgoing damage is decreased by the battle buff, you mitigate 75% while in mist form. So in theory 4 outgoing damage would lead to 1 incoming damage if you leave out armor mitigation.
It's simple mathematics, if your damage is already reduced by 50% and you hit someone who has mist form which reduces it by 75% you should do 12.5% of your normal damage. HOWEVER, the percentage stuff in ESO is bonkers. I made an Argonian Dragonknight template toon, I *** you not, outside of Cyrodiil I can buff my Coagulating Blood to heal 88% of my missing health, inside Cyrodiil with the 50% nerf to healing it does 68% of my missing health, the math is like waaaay off when it comes to the way percentages behave. It seems to me like some of the buffs you can get are A ) not affected by battle spirit and B ) add on top of each other instead of increasing by the percentage stated, like for example 2% extra healing taken on top of 40%, wouldn't be 40.8% but rather 42% because the percentages behave weirdly. This is at least the case with Rapid Mending from the heavy armour tree.
FYI: that healing buff with Dragon Blood works on Live too, I just don't have an Argonian DK to give me those 9% extra healing taken from Quick to Mend. The above stated percentage (88%) is, I think, the max amount you can boost Dragon Blood to.
I think we have similar build..
Let me guess your build and explain the math:
Healing Taken:
Base 100%
Battle Spirit -50%
Quick Recovery (100) 15.8%
Coagulated Blood 8%
Burning Heart 2 12%
Quick to mend 9%
3 Piece of Unassailable 4%
4 Piece of Tormentor 8%
5 Piece of Sanctuary 16%
Total = 122.8%
Healing Done:
Igneous Shield 30%
Blessed (100) 25%
Ritual Mundus Stone 10%
3 Divine Trait = 2.25%
Total = 167.25%
Healing taken x healing done = 205.38%
Coagulated Blood 33% * 295.38% = 67.78%
I think you can get boost the heal further with combat medic
Odd, I had not even realised that burning heart did 12% extra, also I'll have to go find the Ritual stone since im using Mage, lol.
It is almot correct, but you are missing 5% from 5 pieces of heavy armour from Rapid Mending. My 5 pieces of heavy armour are Eternal Yokeda which gives 8% increased healing. On the live server I have 30 points in Quick Recovery (7-8%) and 100 points in Blessed (25%), my rotation is simply, Coagulating Blood > Igneous Shield > Coagulating blood, and that does 78% on my Khajiit Dragonknight, lol. On your Argonian you should be able to achieve 86% without ritual stone, as that's what was able to get using the exact same setup as I have on live.
Also your math is a bit off, Healing Taken and Healing Initated buffs work a bit differently, most of the buffs you have going are healing taken buffs, but Blessed and other healing initiated buffs like the 5piece effect of the Healer's Habit set, works a bit differently.
Blessed is definitely the largest component of "unlocking" Dragon Blood. 25% increased healing on its own makes it go from 33% to 45%, which makes no sense, plus, it makes you able to heal with Dragon Blood at full health, we are talking like 20 points of healing at full health, but still this means that it "breaks" the skill as it should be 0 heals at full health.
I am not sure how the healing is actually calculated, but I would assume it should be:
33% base heal.
25% increase from 100p in Blessed
Then all your Healing Taken buffs work on top of that
Sidenote: Thanks for mentioning the Ritual stone, I'll go find it and see if it helps even more, I am suspecting it might do a fair amount seeing how it is a Healing Initiated buff "Ritual: Increases healing effectiveness by 5%".
If you are interested in seeing actual video proof of the heals I am getting I have a video here.0 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭How can anyone in their right mind think a 100% spammable damage immunity can be alright in a pvp game?
(I know you can only spam it until you run out of magicka. But thats alot of casts on a magicka build)
For comparison, Phase shift in DAOC was a powerful ability, lasted 8? seconds and basically same effect.
But on a 10 minute timer!!!!0 -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »The fire weakness for vamps also was reported to be still 50% instead of 25%, has this been fixed yet?
Also I highly doubt you take 0 damage because thats not how damage is calculated in Cyrodiil. The outgoing damage is decreased by the battle buff, you mitigate 75% while in mist form. So in theory 4 outgoing damage would lead to 1 incoming damage if you leave out armor mitigation.
It's simple mathematics, if your damage is already reduced by 50% and you hit someone who has mist form which reduces it by 75% you should do 12.5% of your normal damage. HOWEVER, the percentage stuff in ESO is bonkers. I made an Argonian Dragonknight template toon, I *** you not, outside of Cyrodiil I can buff my Coagulating Blood to heal 88% of my missing health, inside Cyrodiil with the 50% nerf to healing it does 68% of my missing health, the math is like waaaay off when it comes to the way percentages behave. It seems to me like some of the buffs you can get are A ) not affected by battle spirit and B ) add on top of each other instead of increasing by the percentage stated, like for example 2% extra healing taken on top of 40%, wouldn't be 40.8% but rather 42% because the percentages behave weirdly. This is at least the case with Rapid Mending from the heavy armour tree.
FYI: that healing buff with Dragon Blood works on Live too, I just don't have an Argonian DK to give me those 9% extra healing taken from Quick to Mend. The above stated percentage (88%) is, I think, the max amount you can boost Dragon Blood to.
I think we have similar build..
Let me guess your build and explain the math:
Healing Taken:
Base 100%
Battle Spirit -50%
Quick Recovery (100) 15.8%
Coagulated Blood 8%
Burning Heart 2 12%
Quick to mend 9%
3 Piece of Unassailable 4%
4 Piece of Tormentor 8%
5 Piece of Sanctuary 16%
Total = 122.8%
Healing Done:
Igneous Shield 30%
Blessed (100) 25%
Ritual Mundus Stone 10%
3 Divine Trait = 2.25%
Total = 167.25%
Healing taken x healing done = 205.38%
Coagulated Blood 33% * 295.38% = 67.78%
I think you can get boost the heal further with combat medic
Just hopped on my Live Khajiit Dragonknight, 77% of missing health healed without Ritual mundus stone and 80.5% with it (having 4 items with the divines trait, 28% increased mundus stone effect). I also just realised something, the healing difference between my Live Khajiit DK and my PTS template Argonian DK is 9%, the exact amount that Argonians get as extra healing taken.
Just thought I'd share this, clearly the argonian passive is yet another broken percentage that seems to just add onto the other percentages as if it was supposed to act additively and not multiplicatively, essentially it goes +9% instead of going x1.09 as it should.0 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just imagine... all ZOS had to ****ing do, was return to the old health/mag/stam ratio we had back in 1.5. TTK issue solved.
Instead, now we have a MASSIVE can of worms with all these blanket calculations and extra layers of coding...
Unbelievable. Their logic bewilders me.2 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just imagine... all ZOS had to ****ing do, was return to the old health/mag/stam ratio we had back in 1.5. TTK issue solved.
Instead, now we have a MASSIVE can of worms with all these blanket calculations and extra layers of coding...
Unbelievable. Their logic bewilders me.
now it is whoever finds the most broken mechanics wins in pvp :P So much good info in this thread, I appreciate everyone who is contributing!0 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mistform is a Cornerstone of the Dev's Meta it will stay as it is. They like it and they hate Argonians, Puppies and free speech. O they hate Zerg Busters too.2 -
Radburn✭✭✭I see whats happening - Mist Form is the new Bolt Escape.
Before you grab that pitchfork and join the mob remind yourselves mist form fits on anyone's hotbar.
1 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see whats happening - Mist Form is the new Bolt Escape.
Before you grab that pitchfork and join the mob remind yourselves mist form fits on anyone's hotbar.
@Radburn no what you are seeing is Mist form not working as intended when it comes to stacking with ANY form of damage mitigation and to be specific the battle spirit buff in pvp that reduces ALL damage. They are being added together granting 100% damage mitigation....... Guess you are ok with that though right?
Were you one of the people who HATED bolt escape, but would run like the flash across cyrodil? :P0 -
Radburn✭✭✭I see whats happening - Mist Form is the new Bolt Escape.
Before you grab that pitchfork and join the mob remind yourselves mist form fits on anyone's hotbar.
@Radburn no what you are seeing is Mist form not working as intended when it comes to stacking with ANY form of damage mitigation and to be specific the battle spirit buff in pvp that reduces ALL damage. They are being added together granting 100% damage mitigation....... Guess you are ok with that though right?
Were you one of the people who HATED bolt escape, but would run like the flash across cyrodil? :P
I'm a Templar :P
If there is some funky bug with Mist Form that does grant 100% immunity then it does need to be fixed. However, as a Templar with no other escape options I don't want to see this turn into a witch hunt where the ability gets nerfed to the point it isn't viable. Templar's need this ability in IC, our shield got nerfed into oblivion and without Mist form it would place us back at the very bottom of the food chain. I don't like the fact we need to rely on a vampire skill to have survival, but thats the way it is right now.2 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see whats happening - Mist Form is the new Bolt Escape.
Before you grab that pitchfork and join the mob remind yourselves mist form fits on anyone's hotbar.
@Radburn no what you are seeing is Mist form not working as intended when it comes to stacking with ANY form of damage mitigation and to be specific the battle spirit buff in pvp that reduces ALL damage. They are being added together granting 100% damage mitigation....... Guess you are ok with that though right?
Were you one of the people who HATED bolt escape, but would run like the flash across cyrodil? :P
I'm a Templar :P
If there is some funky bug with Mist Form that does grant 100% immunity then it does need to be fixed. However, as a Templar with no other escape options I don't want to see this turn into a witch hunt where the ability gets nerfed to the point it isn't viable. Templar's need this ability in IC, our shield got nerfed into oblivion and without Mist form it would place us back at the very bottom of the food chain. I don't like the fact we need to rely on a vampire skill to have survival, but thats the way it is right now.
@Radburn I can assure you that this is NOT a witch hunt to get mist form nerfed in anyway shape or form. I dont play a vampire and I am 100% ok with this being a good escape mechanic for non nb or sorcs!! I can not stress that enough
this is just to bring attention to the broken method in which damage mitigation is stacking with each other currently 0 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
✭I thought about a fix for all these problems with Battle spirit and expalined it here :
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/207972/the-battle-spirit-fix
Take a look, it should solve most issues that skew balance on PTS so far.Jo'Khaljor1 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭I thought about a fix for all these problems with Battle spirit and expalined it here :
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/207972/the-battle-spirit-fix
Take a look, it should solve most issues that skew balance on PTS so far.
yes to that thread!0 -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »The fire weakness for vamps also was reported to be still 50% instead of 25%, has this been fixed yet?
Also I highly doubt you take 0 damage because thats not how damage is calculated in Cyrodiil. The outgoing damage is decreased by the battle buff, you mitigate 75% while in mist form. So in theory 4 outgoing damage would lead to 1 incoming damage if you leave out armor mitigation.
It's simple mathematics, if your damage is already reduced by 50% and you hit someone who has mist form which reduces it by 75% you should do 12.5% of your normal damage. HOWEVER, the percentage stuff in ESO is bonkers. I made an Argonian Dragonknight template toon, I *** you not, outside of Cyrodiil I can buff my Coagulating Blood to heal 88% of my missing health, inside Cyrodiil with the 50% nerf to healing it does 68% of my missing health, the math is like waaaay off when it comes to the way percentages behave. It seems to me like some of the buffs you can get are A ) not affected by battle spirit and B ) add on top of each other instead of increasing by the percentage stated, like for example 2% extra healing taken on top of 40%, wouldn't be 40.8% but rather 42% because the percentages behave weirdly. This is at least the case with Rapid Mending from the heavy armour tree.
FYI: that healing buff with Dragon Blood works on Live too, I just don't have an Argonian DK to give me those 9% extra healing taken from Quick to Mend. The above stated percentage (88%) is, I think, the max amount you can boost Dragon Blood to.
I think we have similar build..
Let me guess your build and explain the math:
Healing Taken:
Base 100%
Battle Spirit -50%
Quick Recovery (100) 15.8%
Coagulated Blood 8%
Burning Heart 2 12%
Quick to mend 9%
3 Piece of Unassailable 4%
4 Piece of Tormentor 8%
5 Piece of Sanctuary 16%
Total = 122.8%
Healing Done:
Igneous Shield 30%
Blessed (100) 25%
Ritual Mundus Stone 10%
3 Divine Trait = 2.25%
Total = 167.25%
Healing taken x healing done = 205.38%
Coagulated Blood 33% * 295.38% = 67.78%
I think you can get boost the heal further with combat medic
Sorry for continuing to respond to this, but, I just managed to get 94.7% of missing health returned on my Argonian DK template toon, I got the Ritual Mundus, 7 pieces of heavy armour for 7% increased healing from Rapid Regen. Holy *** imagine if I could get some more sets with "healing taken" buff on them like Unassailable or something like that, I mean you could probably even use 5 pieces of healer's habit, which gives 8% increased healing. I am quite sure that as an Argonian Dragonknight it is possible to push Coagulating Blood to do 100% or more of your missing health, which is soooo broken!0 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »The fire weakness for vamps also was reported to be still 50% instead of 25%, has this been fixed yet?
Also I highly doubt you take 0 damage because thats not how damage is calculated in Cyrodiil. The outgoing damage is decreased by the battle buff, you mitigate 75% while in mist form. So in theory 4 outgoing damage would lead to 1 incoming damage if you leave out armor mitigation.
It's simple mathematics, if your damage is already reduced by 50% and you hit someone who has mist form which reduces it by 75% you should do 12.5% of your normal damage. HOWEVER, the percentage stuff in ESO is bonkers. I made an Argonian Dragonknight template toon, I *** you not, outside of Cyrodiil I can buff my Coagulating Blood to heal 88% of my missing health, inside Cyrodiil with the 50% nerf to healing it does 68% of my missing health, the math is like waaaay off when it comes to the way percentages behave. It seems to me like some of the buffs you can get are A ) not affected by battle spirit and B ) add on top of each other instead of increasing by the percentage stated, like for example 2% extra healing taken on top of 40%, wouldn't be 40.8% but rather 42% because the percentages behave weirdly. This is at least the case with Rapid Mending from the heavy armour tree.
FYI: that healing buff with Dragon Blood works on Live too, I just don't have an Argonian DK to give me those 9% extra healing taken from Quick to Mend. The above stated percentage (88%) is, I think, the max amount you can boost Dragon Blood to.
I think we have similar build..
Let me guess your build and explain the math:
Healing Taken:
Base 100%
Battle Spirit -50%
Quick Recovery (100) 15.8%
Coagulated Blood 8%
Burning Heart 2 12%
Quick to mend 9%
3 Piece of Unassailable 4%
4 Piece of Tormentor 8%
5 Piece of Sanctuary 16%
Total = 122.8%
Healing Done:
Igneous Shield 30%
Blessed (100) 25%
Ritual Mundus Stone 10%
3 Divine Trait = 2.25%
Total = 167.25%
Healing taken x healing done = 205.38%
Coagulated Blood 33% * 295.38% = 67.78%
I think you can get boost the heal further with combat medic
Sorry for continuing to respond to this, but, I just managed to get 94.7% of missing health returned on my Argonian DK template toon, I got the Ritual Mundus, 7 pieces of heavy armour for 7% increased healing from Rapid Regen. Holy *** imagine if I could get some more sets with "healing taken" buff on them like Unassailable or something like that, I mean you could probably even use 5 pieces of healer's habit, which gives 8% increased healing. I am quite sure that as an Argonian Dragonknight it is possible to push Coagulating Blood to do 100% or more of your missing health, which is soooo broken!
ATTENTION @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno ATTENTION
Please take note of the broken things happening........if any of this makes it to live and then we have to wait the classic amount of time for anything to be fixed, you know "next major update", I see more people leaving as more people roll this style of character........... ATTENTION0 -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »The fire weakness for vamps also was reported to be still 50% instead of 25%, has this been fixed yet?
Also I highly doubt you take 0 damage because thats not how damage is calculated in Cyrodiil. The outgoing damage is decreased by the battle buff, you mitigate 75% while in mist form. So in theory 4 outgoing damage would lead to 1 incoming damage if you leave out armor mitigation.
It's simple mathematics, if your damage is already reduced by 50% and you hit someone who has mist form which reduces it by 75% you should do 12.5% of your normal damage. HOWEVER, the percentage stuff in ESO is bonkers. I made an Argonian Dragonknight template toon, I *** you not, outside of Cyrodiil I can buff my Coagulating Blood to heal 88% of my missing health, inside Cyrodiil with the 50% nerf to healing it does 68% of my missing health, the math is like waaaay off when it comes to the way percentages behave. It seems to me like some of the buffs you can get are A ) not affected by battle spirit and B ) add on top of each other instead of increasing by the percentage stated, like for example 2% extra healing taken on top of 40%, wouldn't be 40.8% but rather 42% because the percentages behave weirdly. This is at least the case with Rapid Mending from the heavy armour tree.
FYI: that healing buff with Dragon Blood works on Live too, I just don't have an Argonian DK to give me those 9% extra healing taken from Quick to Mend. The above stated percentage (88%) is, I think, the max amount you can boost Dragon Blood to.
I think we have similar build..
Let me guess your build and explain the math:
Healing Taken:
Base 100%
Battle Spirit -50%
Quick Recovery (100) 15.8%
Coagulated Blood 8%
Burning Heart 2 12%
Quick to mend 9%
3 Piece of Unassailable 4%
4 Piece of Tormentor 8%
5 Piece of Sanctuary 16%
Total = 122.8%
Healing Done:
Igneous Shield 30%
Blessed (100) 25%
Ritual Mundus Stone 10%
3 Divine Trait = 2.25%
Total = 167.25%
Healing taken x healing done = 205.38%
Coagulated Blood 33% * 295.38% = 67.78%
I think you can get boost the heal further with combat medic
Sorry for continuing to respond to this, but, I just managed to get 94.7% of missing health returned on my Argonian DK template toon, I got the Ritual Mundus, 7 pieces of heavy armour for 7% increased healing from Rapid Regen. Holy *** imagine if I could get some more sets with "healing taken" buff on them like Unassailable or something like that, I mean you could probably even use 5 pieces of healer's habit, which gives 8% increased healing. I am quite sure that as an Argonian Dragonknight it is possible to push Coagulating Blood to do 100% or more of your missing health, which is soooo broken!
ATTENTION @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno ATTENTION
Please take note of the broken things happening........if any of this makes it to live and then we have to wait the classic amount of time for anything to be fixed, you know "next major update", I see more people leaving as more people roll this style of character........... ATTENTION
This is doable on live 0 -
bigereard✭✭for healing taken buff we have sets like sanctuary or twilight's embrace (I'm not testing it yet, not sure if the 5 set bonus is "healing taken"). twilight's embrace is weaker but can be heavy armor that profit from rapid mending passive. Or combine this two for theoretically 26% healing taken buff + 4%/5% from rapid mending depends on what weapon you wanna use.
I do a little raw testing on live and pts, I think same category healing buff (received & taken or done & initiated) stack additively, then between category stack multiplicatively.
In other case (I'm not testing it yet), some people claim when they have battle spirit debuff and other healing debuff, their healing basically doesn't exist.
In this case, i think when battle spirit healing debuff (-50%) meet with major defile (-30%) you only received 20% healing.
combine it further with minor defile (-15%) and 100 point on defile champion, theoretically you can get -110% healing taken debuff.
So it's only take 1 major defile skill and 1 disease damage to make self healing build useless, unless you invest the whole thing into healing taken like in my build (which make the "least popular" argonian race more appealing), or you spam purge/purifying ritual (and pray your foe don't spam defile)
I agree with someone in this forum (forget his/her name), it's better to make battle spirit healing debuff and major/minor defile into different debuff category.
With the way thing stacking with battle spirit in PTS (including the damage resistance stack), I think battle spirit need to redesign completely.
Maybe its better to make regeneration slower so heal, damage, damage shield, less spamable and make combat more tactical.
or maybe we must reintroduce the soft cap back, but only in cyrodiil. With soft cap it will be easy to nerf or buff certain aspect that OP or UP for PVP.
sorry if my english is bad.2 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭for healing taken buff we have sets like sanctuary or twilight's embrace (I'm not testing it yet, not sure if the 5 set bonus is "healing taken"). twilight's embrace is weaker but can be heavy armor that profit from rapid mending passive. Or combine this two for theoretically 26% healing taken buff + 4%/5% from rapid mending depends on what weapon you wanna use.
I do a little raw testing on live and pts, I think same category healing buff (received & taken or done & initiated) stack additively, then between category stack multiplicatively.
In other case (I'm not testing it yet), some people claim when they have battle spirit debuff and other healing debuff, their healing basically doesn't exist.
In this case, i think when battle spirit healing debuff (-50%) meet with major defile (-30%) you only received 20% healing.
combine it further with minor defile (-15%) and 100 point on defile champion, theoretically you can get -110% healing taken debuff.
So it's only take 1 major defile skill and 1 disease damage to make self healing build useless, unless you invest the whole thing into healing taken like in my build (which make the "least popular" argonian race more appealing), or you spam purge/purifying ritual (and pray your foe don't spam defile)
I agree with someone in this forum (forget his/her name), it's better to make battle spirit healing debuff and major/minor defile into different debuff category.
With the way thing stacking with battle spirit in PTS (including the damage resistance stack), I think battle spirit need to redesign completely.
Maybe its better to make regeneration slower so heal, damage, damage shield, less spamable and make combat more tactical.
or maybe we must reintroduce the soft cap back, but only in cyrodiil. With soft cap it will be easy to nerf or buff certain aspect that OP or UP for PVP.
sorry if my english is bad.
Your English is fine it was well understood! I agree with everything in regards to the battle spirit debuff needs to be redesigned or adjusted. At the very least I should say. What they need to do is make sure everything is being calculated how it should be. That won't happen though. If you do the testing let us know the results please! Edited by OGLezard on August 18, 2015 2:56AM0 -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭for healing taken buff we have sets like sanctuary or twilight's embrace (I'm not testing it yet, not sure if the 5 set bonus is "healing taken"). twilight's embrace is weaker but can be heavy armor that profit from rapid mending passive. Or combine this two for theoretically 26% healing taken buff + 4%/5% from rapid mending depends on what weapon you wanna use.
I do a little raw testing on live and pts, I think same category healing buff (received & taken or done & initiated) stack additively, then between category stack multiplicatively.
In other case (I'm not testing it yet), some people claim when they have battle spirit debuff and other healing debuff, their healing basically doesn't exist.
In this case, i think when battle spirit healing debuff (-50%) meet with major defile (-30%) you only received 20% healing.
combine it further with minor defile (-15%) and 100 point on defile champion, theoretically you can get -110% healing taken debuff.
So it's only take 1 major defile skill and 1 disease damage to make self healing build useless, unless you invest the whole thing into healing taken like in my build (which make the "least popular" argonian race more appealing), or you spam purge/purifying ritual (and pray your foe don't spam defile)
I agree with someone in this forum (forget his/her name), it's better to make battle spirit healing debuff and major/minor defile into different debuff category.
With the way thing stacking with battle spirit in PTS (including the damage resistance stack), I think battle spirit need to redesign completely.
Maybe its better to make regeneration slower so heal, damage, damage shield, less spamable and make combat more tactical.
or maybe we must reintroduce the soft cap back, but only in cyrodiil. With soft cap it will be easy to nerf or buff certain aspect that OP or UP for PVP.
sorry if my english is bad.
I cannot agree more, the whole Battle Spirit should be its own kind of buff / debuff, since we all know how weirdly things stack in this game. Essentially with the battle spirit debuff and both major + minor defile on you, your healing should never go to 0 as it would when you have a 100% healing debuff. It should essentially be 50% healing x(multiplied) with 0.55 (1 - 0.45) for the two debuffs = 27.5% healing. But then again the Quick to Mend passive from argonians should also increase your healing taken multiplicatively (x1.09), but it works additively (+9%), which is why it is so overpowered.
SIDENOTE: I realised that when I did my selfheal test in Cyrodiil that I was near a keep while having the 20% increased healing taken buff from Alliance War defensive passive, which is why earlier I wrongfully stated that the Battle Spirit 50% Healing Debuff wasn't applying correctly, which it does, more or less, just not near keeps when you have that special passive.1 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭for healing taken buff we have sets like sanctuary or twilight's embrace (I'm not testing it yet, not sure if the 5 set bonus is "healing taken"). twilight's embrace is weaker but can be heavy armor that profit from rapid mending passive. Or combine this two for theoretically 26% healing taken buff + 4%/5% from rapid mending depends on what weapon you wanna use.
I do a little raw testing on live and pts, I think same category healing buff (received & taken or done & initiated) stack additively, then between category stack multiplicatively.
In other case (I'm not testing it yet), some people claim when they have battle spirit debuff and other healing debuff, their healing basically doesn't exist.
In this case, i think when battle spirit healing debuff (-50%) meet with major defile (-30%) you only received 20% healing.
combine it further with minor defile (-15%) and 100 point on defile champion, theoretically you can get -110% healing taken debuff.
So it's only take 1 major defile skill and 1 disease damage to make self healing build useless, unless you invest the whole thing into healing taken like in my build (which make the "least popular" argonian race more appealing), or you spam purge/purifying ritual (and pray your foe don't spam defile)
I agree with someone in this forum (forget his/her name), it's better to make battle spirit healing debuff and major/minor defile into different debuff category.
With the way thing stacking with battle spirit in PTS (including the damage resistance stack), I think battle spirit need to redesign completely.
Maybe its better to make regeneration slower so heal, damage, damage shield, less spamable and make combat more tactical.
or maybe we must reintroduce the soft cap back, but only in cyrodiil. With soft cap it will be easy to nerf or buff certain aspect that OP or UP for PVP.
sorry if my english is bad.
I cannot agree more, the whole Battle Spirit should be its own kind of buff / debuff, since we all know how weirdly things stack in this game. Essentially with the battle spirit debuff and both major + minor defile on you, your healing should never go to 0 as it would when you have a 100% healing debuff. It should essentially be 50% healing x(multiplied) with 0.55 (1 - 0.45) for the two debuffs = 27.5% healing. But then again the Quick to Mend passive from argonians should also increase your healing taken multiplicatively (x1.09), but it works additively (+9%), which is why it is so overpowered.
SIDENOTE: I realised that when I did my selfheal test in Cyrodiil that I was near a keep while having the 20% increased healing taken buff from Alliance War defensive passive, which is why earlier I wrongfully stated that the Battle Spirit 50% Healing Debuff wasn't applying correctly, which it does, more or less, just not near keeps when you have that special passive.for healing taken buff we have sets like sanctuary or twilight's embrace (I'm not testing it yet, not sure if the 5 set bonus is "healing taken"). twilight's embrace is weaker but can be heavy armor that profit from rapid mending passive. Or combine this two for theoretically 26% healing taken buff + 4%/5% from rapid mending depends on what weapon you wanna use.
I do a little raw testing on live and pts, I think same category healing buff (received & taken or done & initiated) stack additively, then between category stack multiplicatively.
In other case (I'm not testing it yet), some people claim when they have battle spirit debuff and other healing debuff, their healing basically doesn't exist.
In this case, i think when battle spirit healing debuff (-50%) meet with major defile (-30%) you only received 20% healing.
combine it further with minor defile (-15%) and 100 point on defile champion, theoretically you can get -110% healing taken debuff.
So it's only take 1 major defile skill and 1 disease damage to make self healing build useless, unless you invest the whole thing into healing taken like in my build (which make the "least popular" argonian race more appealing), or you spam purge/purifying ritual (and pray your foe don't spam defile)
I agree with someone in this forum (forget his/her name), it's better to make battle spirit healing debuff and major/minor defile into different debuff category.
With the way thing stacking with battle spirit in PTS (including the damage resistance stack), I think battle spirit need to redesign completely.
Maybe its better to make regeneration slower so heal, damage, damage shield, less spamable and make combat more tactical.
or maybe we must reintroduce the soft cap back, but only in cyrodiil. With soft cap it will be easy to nerf or buff certain aspect that OP or UP for PVP.
sorry if my english is bad.
I cannot agree more, the whole Battle Spirit should be its own kind of buff / debuff, since we all know how weirdly things stack in this game. Essentially with the battle spirit debuff and both major + minor defile on you, your healing should never go to 0 as it would when you have a 100% healing debuff. It should essentially be 50% healing x(multiplied) with 0.55 (1 - 0.45) for the two debuffs = 27.5% healing. But then again the Quick to Mend passive from argonians should also increase your healing taken multiplicatively (x1.09), but it works additively (+9%), which is why it is so overpowered.
SIDENOTE: I realised that when I did my selfheal test in Cyrodiil that I was near a keep while having the 20% increased healing taken buff from Alliance War defensive passive, which is why earlier I wrongfully stated that the Battle Spirit 50% Healing Debuff wasn't applying correctly, which it does, more or less, just not near keeps when you have that special passive.
Oh god..... another thing that is going to be bad lol0 -
mrdankles✭✭✭I use elusive mist to escape or set myself up for an attack and damage reduce until my next attack is ready or I can knock them back and attack, rinse and repeat.0
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bigereard✭✭There's discussion about battle spirit fix by Ahzek and i think he proposed a good solution.
@OGLezard thankyou, I dunno if i have time or not for further testing before this come live, but i'll let you know if I have some results.
@Saturn ah yes, i mentioned it in my first post, the combat medic thing. (20% healing initiated when near keep)
It's on different category with battle spirit and major/minor defile, so it'll stack multiplicatively.
Quick to mend is on the same category with battle spirit and defile so it'll stack additively.
I think the biggest boost to healing taken is soul siphon's major vitality (30% stack additively with battle spirit), but it's an ultimate, so it's not always reliable.
The other is scourge harvester sets (30%) will also stack additively, but it's also not reliable.
Other source of healing taken that stack additively, is mentioned in my first post. But the boost is really small compared to battle spirit + major & minor defile.
in other hand major defile can be spammed with some reasonable cost (and still also do other effect like damage & cc), and minor defile can be spammed for almost no cost (disease enchantment).
not mentioned that there's champion bonus that can boost 33% of this number. so the total number will be 40% for major defile and 20% for minor defile.
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »Cloak > mistform
Yup. So is bolt escape.
pre 1.7 sure..........
As someone with a V14 Temp, Sorc, and NB I would trade Mistform for 2.1 BE or 2.1 Dark Cloak.Edited by timidobserver on August 19, 2015 3:08AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0