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Tel Var Stones Looting and Large Skirmish PvP
byrom101b16_ESO
✭✭✭✭✭
I spent an awful lot of time in Memorial yesterday and achieved a ~1.8/1 kill/death ratio in the large scale skirmishes (and some lag deaths ofc...). There were periods I had far higher totals, but really didn't want to leave the action... I walked out with about about 250 stones.
I got well over 3500 stones in the same period soloing the sewers and being more PvE about my time in IC, something far less risky.
Now I don't like player looting, and have been most vocal on the subject, but this indicates a problem...
... If you cannot get ahead in IC group PvP at anything like the same rate as PvE'ing unless you have a very high kill/death ratio (which is very difficult to achieve in large fights without blobbing against inexperienced players - which I haven't seen on the PTS anywhere yet...) then this type of PvP will wither...
... and whilst I don't like PK auto-looting etc. I DO like the skirmish PvP that results in this tight, varied and challenging environment!
Beats an open field any day...
I would suggest the following to fix it;
When someone dies they lose only 50% of their stones, and the game awards the killing player a bonus number of stones equal to their multiplier times what the other 50% would be if there was 100% looting.
That way, both stones gained from PvE kills and stones gain from PvP kills are additive into the pool of available stones, and we avoid having the same number of stones merely moving between the groups fighting, and only when someone leaves the area and stop having the fun that kept them there in the first case...
Thoughts?
Edited by byrom101b16_ESO on August 17, 2015 1:08PM I got well over 3500 stones in the same period soloing the sewers and being more PvE about my time in IC, something far less risky.
Now I don't like player looting, and have been most vocal on the subject, but this indicates a problem...
... If you cannot get ahead in IC group PvP at anything like the same rate as PvE'ing unless you have a very high kill/death ratio (which is very difficult to achieve in large fights without blobbing against inexperienced players - which I haven't seen on the PTS anywhere yet...) then this type of PvP will wither...
... and whilst I don't like PK auto-looting etc. I DO like the skirmish PvP that results in this tight, varied and challenging environment!
Beats an open field any day...
I would suggest the following to fix it;
When someone dies they lose only 50% of their stones, and the game awards the killing player a bonus number of stones equal to their multiplier times what the other 50% would be if there was 100% looting.
That way, both stones gained from PvE kills and stones gain from PvP kills are additive into the pool of available stones, and we avoid having the same number of stones merely moving between the groups fighting, and only when someone leaves the area and stop having the fun that kept them there in the first case...
Thoughts?
0
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭50% is too low. I like punishing zombie PvP. I like that dying isn't trivial and sometimes even a benefit like it is in Cyrodiil. In IC you desperately do not want to die, and that is how PvP should be. 70-80% is about as low as I think it should go.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've had no problems playing solo in IC.
I did do some PvE as well (2 quests), but most of the time I've spent PvPing.
I tried to get to 4x modifier yesterday and I was carrying 3,9k stones (mostly acquired by PvPing), until some people finally managed to kill me after a severe cloak malfunction
Lost 3k+ TV stones, but I knew the risk I was taking and I could've banked them at any point, so I'm fine with it
To be honest, I would actually even prefer a 100% loss rate.
The less stones you lose, the less sense of danger there is when PvPing and that only pushes the "zerg zerg die respawn" mentality.2 -
Darlon✭✭✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »When someone dies they lose only 50% of their stones, and the game awards the killing player a bonus number of stones equal to their multiplier times what the other 50% would be if there was 100% looting.
no, this is a very bad idea... This will only lead to people killing each other in turn (kill trading, cause the total amount of stones between the 2 players keep multiplying each time one of them dies).
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byrom101b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »When someone dies they lose only 50% of their stones, and the game awards the killing player a bonus number of stones equal to their multiplier times what the other 50% would be if there was 100% looting.
no, this is a very bad idea... This will only lead to people killing each other in turn (kill trading, cause the total amount of stones between the 2 players keep multiplying each time one of them dies).
A useful observation.
Do you have an alternative solution to the issue then?0 -
byrom101b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I've had no problems playing solo in IC.
I did do some PvE as well (2 quests), but most of the time I've spent PvPing.
I tried to get to 4x modifier yesterday and I was carrying 3,9k stones (mostly acquired by PvPing), until some people finally managed to kill me after a severe cloak malfunction
Lost 3k+ TV stones, but I knew the risk I was taking and I could've banked them at any point, so I'm fine with it
To be honest, I would actually even prefer a 100% loss rate.
The less stones you lose, the less sense of danger there is when PvPing and that only pushes the "zerg zerg die respawn" mentality.
At least you're honest enough to admit your main NB cheesy escape ability has to fail to work for you to be killed... 0 -
Darlon✭✭✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »When someone dies they lose only 50% of their stones, and the game awards the killing player a bonus number of stones equal to their multiplier times what the other 50% would be if there was 100% looting.
no, this is a very bad idea... This will only lead to people killing each other in turn (kill trading, cause the total amount of stones between the 2 players keep multiplying each time one of them dies).
A useful observation.
Do you have an alternative solution to the issue then?
To be honest ? no, not really.. just like you I participated in the larger brawls in the memorial district, and I too noticed that gaining stones doesn't work all that well in those encounters...
How to improve that is a difficult question, especially since using a solution like you mentioned would/could lead to people abusing the situation...0 -
pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Make mobs in IC drop substantially more stones than the mobs in the sewers. Going with the whole risk/reward concept, being out in the open in IC is much more risky than being in the sewers around your home base.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »I've had no problems playing solo in IC.
I did do some PvE as well (2 quests), but most of the time I've spent PvPing.
I tried to get to 4x modifier yesterday and I was carrying 3,9k stones (mostly acquired by PvPing), until some people finally managed to kill me after a severe cloak malfunction
Lost 3k+ TV stones, but I knew the risk I was taking and I could've banked them at any point, so I'm fine with it
To be honest, I would actually even prefer a 100% loss rate.
The less stones you lose, the less sense of danger there is when PvPing and that only pushes the "zerg zerg die respawn" mentality.
At least you're honest enough to admit your main NB cheesy escape ability has to fail to work for you to be killed...
No other NB escaped me. Go figure...
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »When someone dies they lose only 50% of their stones, and the game awards the killing player a bonus number of stones equal to their multiplier times what the other 50% would be if there was 100% looting.
no, this is a very bad idea... This will only lead to people killing each other in turn (kill trading, cause the total amount of stones between the 2 players keep multiplying each time one of them dies).
A useful observation.
Do you have an alternative solution to the issue then?
To be honest ? no, not really.. just like you I participated in the larger brawls in the memorial district, and I too noticed that gaining stones doesn't work all that well in those encounters...
How to improve that is a difficult question, especially since using a solution like you mentioned would/could lead to people abusing the situation...
People in those large brawls are mostly just there for the PvP, they aren't carrying many stones around...
If you want TV stones, you'll have better success killing people deep down in the Sewers for instance.0 -
Taonnor✭✭✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »I spent an awful lot of time in Memorial yesterday and achieved a ~1.8/1 kill/death ratio in the large scale skirmishes (and some lag deaths ofc...). There were periods I had far higher totals, but really didn't want to leave the action... I walked out with about about 250 stones.
I got well over 3500 stones in the same period soloing the sewers and being more PvE about my time in IC, something far less risky.
Now I don't like player looting, and have been most vocal on the subject, but this indicates a problem...
... If you cannot get ahead in IC group PvP at anything like the same rate as PvE'ing unless you have a very high kill/death ratio (which is very difficult to achieve in large fights without blobbing against inexperienced players - which I haven't seen on the PTS anywhere yet...) then this type of PvP will wither...
... and whilst I don't like PK auto-looting etc. I DO like the skirmish PvP that results in this tight, varied and challenging environment!
Beats an open field any day...
I would suggest the following to fix it;
When someone dies they lose only 50% of their stones, and the game awards the killing player a bonus number of stones equal to their multiplier times what the other 50% would be if there was 100% looting.
That way, both stones gained from PvE kills and stones gain from PvP kills are additive into the pool of available stones, and we avoid having the same number of stones merely moving between the groups fighting, and only when someone leaves the area and stop having the fun that kept them there in the first case...
Thoughts?
I see one problem with your suggestion.
Tel Var Stone trading
A little example
1.
Player x have 100 stones
Player y have 100 stones
x kills y and get 100 stones, y loose 50 stones
2.
Player x have 200 stones
Player y have 50 stones
y kills x and get 200 stones, x loose 100 stones
3.
Player x have 100 stones
Player y have 250 stones
x kills y and get 250 stones, y loose 125 stones
4.
Player x have 350 stones
Player y have 125 stones
...
If you do this with larger amounts of stones you can exploit very high values. So no, its a bad idea.Guild
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pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »Make mobs in IC drop substantially more stones than the mobs in the sewers. Going with the whole risk/reward concept, being out in the open in IC is much more risky than being in the sewers around your home base.
In fact what I'd like to see is the servers identify the busy pvp areas of IC (already coded i.e. the cross-sword icon on the map) and significantly bump up the TV stone drop on mobs in the vicinity. It is very risky to engage mobs in these zones because of the high chance of being engaged by another player. The stone drop should reflect this. People currently avoid mobs in these areas, which is why you see very little TV stones getting into circulation. Currently it is more beneficial TV stone wise to farm npcs in the sewers than it is to actually pvp. This needs to be completely reversed.0 -
byrom101b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »Make mobs in IC drop substantially more stones than the mobs in the sewers. Going with the whole risk/reward concept, being out in the open in IC is much more risky than being in the sewers around your home base.
In fact what I'd like to see is the servers identify the busy pvp areas of IC (already coded i.e. the cross-sword icon on the map) and significantly bump up the TV stone drop on mobs in the vicinity. It is very risky to engage mobs in these zones because of the high chance of being engaged by another player. The stone drop should reflect this. People currently avoid mobs in these areas, which is why you see very little TV stones getting into circulation. Currently it is more beneficial TV stone wise to farm npcs in the sewers than it is to actually pvp. This needs to be completely reversed.
That sounds good...0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »Make mobs in IC drop substantially more stones than the mobs in the sewers. Going with the whole risk/reward concept, being out in the open in IC is much more risky than being in the sewers around your home base.
In fact what I'd like to see is the servers identify the busy pvp areas of IC (already coded i.e. the cross-sword icon on the map) and significantly bump up the TV stone drop on mobs in the vicinity. It is very risky to engage mobs in these zones because of the high chance of being engaged by another player. The stone drop should reflect this. People currently avoid mobs in these areas, which is why you see very little TV stones getting into circulation. Currently it is more beneficial TV stone wise to farm npcs in the sewers than it is to actually pvp. This needs to be completely reversed.
That sounds good...
Sounds interesting to me too.
Risk based reward.
But I fear it would just end in a TV farming conclusion like AP farming zergs in cyrodiil.Edited by Rune_Relic on August 17, 2015 2:57PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »I spent an awful lot of time in Memorial yesterday and achieved a ~1.8/1 kill/death ratio in the large scale skirmishes (and some lag deaths ofc...). There were periods I had far higher totals, but really didn't want to leave the action... I walked out with about about 250 stones.
I got well over 3500 stones in the same period soloing the sewers and being more PvE about my time in IC, something far less risky.
Now I don't like player looting, and have been most vocal on the subject, but this indicates a problem...
... If you cannot get ahead in IC group PvP at anything like the same rate as PvE'ing unless you have a very high kill/death ratio (which is very difficult to achieve in large fights without blobbing against inexperienced players - which I haven't seen on the PTS anywhere yet...) then this type of PvP will wither...
... and whilst I don't like PK auto-looting etc. I DO like the skirmish PvP that results in this tight, varied and challenging environment!
Beats an open field any day...
I would suggest the following to fix it;
When someone dies they lose only 50% of their stones, and the game awards the killing player a bonus number of stones equal to their multiplier times what the other 50% would be if there was 100% looting.
That way, both stones gained from PvE kills and stones gain from PvP kills are additive into the pool of available stones, and we avoid having the same number of stones merely moving between the groups fighting, and only when someone leaves the area and stop having the fun that kept them there in the first case...
Thoughts?
I see one problem with your suggestion.
Tel Var Stone trading
A little example
1.
Player x have 100 stones
Player y have 100 stones
x kills y and get 100 stones, y loose 50 stones
2.
Player x have 200 stones
Player y have 50 stones
y kills x and get 200 stones, x loose 100 stones
3.
Player x have 100 stones
Player y have 250 stones
x kills y and get 250 stones, y loose 125 stones
4.
Player x have 350 stones
Player y have 125 stones
...
If you do this with larger amounts of stones you can exploit very high values. So no, its a bad idea.
My buddy and I had the same idea last week, but upon testing this week, the multiplier does not seem to apply to enemy player kills.0