@ZOS: Argonians Remain Least Competitive Race - Consolidated Arguments and Suggestions

tinythinker · August 2015

AngryNord wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

In addition to the above suggestions, here is a list of ideas for more dramatic changes to Argonian racials:
Replace Poison/Disease resistance with Physical and Spell Resistance

An entirely new racial passive system where players can select from various lore-based passives for their chosen race that benefit their desired playstyle

This should only ever be introduced if 'Elder Scrolls' is removed from the game's title at the same time.

The change to resistance type or having customization based on past Elder Scrolls games/lore?

Junkogen · August 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Update: Brian Wheeler relayed a question to Eric Wrobel during the Dev Let's Play stream a little bit ago, asking about update to Argonian passives. Wrobel said all their passives are getting increased in the next PTS patch, but didn't say how much. Hopefully it's not the paltry amounts they announced in the ESO Live.

I'm skeptical. I think it's unfortunately the paltry amounts. I just don't think Eric Wrobel fully understands balance in the context of a soft cap-free game. The little percentage increases that he's been doing tell me that he still doesn't get it.

He doesn't understand just how underpowered Argonians are compared to other races. He doesn't balance based on usefulness or overall utility. He just looks at straight percentages and that's always going to work against Argonians given their very limiting and marginally useful passives.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2015

@angrynord how it makes sense not everyone in a race has their race powers i.e. High Elves born with no magic, Nords born with magic (Humans don't normal have magic), Red Guard Mages and Bosmer Mages. The idea that all High elves have magic is just a player thing, or any race having abilities that their people are known for players have to have the base race powers

Hell if you did Cadwell Gold the AD quest main villain is a Elf everyone thought had no magic. His idea makes sense as not all Nord can smash face and not all elves can control the elements. Now that being said it should be a ONE TIME free change for existing characters but after that I role your toon plays should only be changed at character creation and be cookie cutter by default

AshTal · August 2015

I took what the devs said in live chat about Argonians to be in jest and hopefully it was and they are taking the Argoian racials seriously. The potion racial needs to be removed and replaced by something useful. The swim speed should be left but not counted as an actual benefit. I think we can all see that even with the suggested bonuses on the live chat we are too weak

Junkogen · August 2015

I didn't see anything in the patch notes.... :'(

ThatNeonZebraAgain · August 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

I didn't see anything in the patch notes.... :'(

It was added later:

Argonian Resistance: Increased the maximum health bonus from this passive to 2/4/6% from 1/2/3%.
Quick to Mend: Increased the bonus healing received from this passive to 3/6/9% from 2/4/6%.

Junkogen · August 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

I didn't see anything in the patch notes.... :'(

It was added later:

Argonian Resistance: Increased the maximum health bonus from this passive to 2/4/6% from 1/2/3%.

Quick to Mend: Increased the bonus healing received from this passive to 3/6/9% from 2/4/6%.

Oh, I heard about that. Meh. It's better than nothing, though. They changes the Orc and Khajiit passives. I don't know why they don't change at least one Argonian passive.

AshTal · August 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

I didn't see anything in the patch notes.... :'(

It was added later:

Argonian Resistance: Increased the maximum health bonus from this passive to 2/4/6% from 1/2/3%.

Quick to Mend: Increased the bonus healing received from this passive to 3/6/9% from 2/4/6%.

I wonder why the Argonian health bonus is less than the nords seems like Argonians should get the same health bonus as Nords otherwise they are just getting upgraded to were another under powered race was prior to 2.1

Wreuntzylla · August 2015

AshTal wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

I didn't see anything in the patch notes.... :'(

It was added later:

Argonian Resistance: Increased the maximum health bonus from this passive to 2/4/6% from 1/2/3%.

Quick to Mend: Increased the bonus healing received from this passive to 3/6/9% from 2/4/6%.

I wonder why the Argonian health bonus is less than the nords seems like Argonians should get the same health bonus as Nords otherwise they are just getting upgraded to were another under powered race was prior to 2.1

You forget your place.

Nord>Altmer>>Argonian

Argonians aren't free. Have you seen the hovel that is Stormhold? Argonians remain enslaved by poverty, that stupid Hist Tree and racist developers!

Kidding aside, does received healing have dimishing returns?

With healing, damage and damage shields all nerfed in PvP, I am a bit curious whether stacking healing taken will be beastly.

5pc Twilight's Embrace: 10% healing taken
5pc Healer's Habit: 8% increased Heals
2pc Scourge Harvester: 30% healing taken on proc
Quick to Mend: 9% healing taken
Quick Recovery: 15.8% healing taken at 100 points

ThatNeonZebraAgain · August 2015

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

AshTal wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

I didn't see anything in the patch notes.... :'(

It was added later:

Argonian Resistance: Increased the maximum health bonus from this passive to 2/4/6% from 1/2/3%.

Quick to Mend: Increased the bonus healing received from this passive to 3/6/9% from 2/4/6%.

I wonder why the Argonian health bonus is less than the nords seems like Argonians should get the same health bonus as Nords otherwise they are just getting upgraded to were another under powered race was prior to 2.1

You forget your place.

Nord>Altmer>>Argonian

Argonians aren't free. Have you seen the hovel that is Stormhold? Argonians remain enslaved by poverty, that stupid Hist Tree and racist developers!

Kidding aside, does received healing have dimishing returns?

With healing, damage and damage shields all nerfed in PvP, I am a bit curious whether stacking healing taken will be beastly.

5pc Twilight's Embrace: 10% healing taken
5pc Healer's Habit: 8% increased Heals
2pc Scourge Harvester: 30% healing taken on proc
Quick to Mend: 9% healing taken
Quick Recovery: 15.8% healing taken at 100 points

I thought I heard somewhere that healing received was also affected by the PvP zone reduction? Either way, stacking healing received has been one of the main goals of my Argonian NB tank since launch. The highest I got before Champ system was about 35% -- and that was static, without any sort of procs involved. Right now I run with about 18-26% static (depending on if I have Swallow Soul slotted, no CP involved) with Malubeth set for the additional 30% when it's active.

AshTal · August 2015

The argonian healing racial is reduced in PvP because it is a percentage increase as healing is reduced by 50% our healing bonus is off less. It's not exactly a good racial at best of times.
My biggest pet hate is the potion requirement however if we could get the same health as Nords and the bonus to healing given and received least we would be on par with most races.

Junkogen · August 2015

AshTal wrote: »

The argonian healing racial is reduced in PvP because it is a percentage increase as healing is reduced by 50% our healing bonus is off less. It's not exactly a good racial at best of times.
My biggest pet hate is the potion requirement however if we could get the same health as Nords and the bonus to healing given and received least we would be on par with most races.

Great, yet another reason to hate Eric Wrobel and his narrow thinking. He just doesn't consider the big picture and how these racials work with the rest of the game design. Why doesn't anyone in development consider these things?

Junkogen · August 2015

Have we been defeated? Is the Argonian cause a lost cause?

ThatNeonZebraAgain · August 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

Have we been defeated? Is the Argonian cause a lost cause?

Hard to say. Does anyone know if we were mentioned in the last ESO Live?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2015

They were not

Junkogen · August 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

They were not

Yeah, I suppose it was foolish to think they might redesign passives. I just don get it. I don't see what the developers see in terms of how great or balanced or useful the Argonian passives are.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2015

Argonian passives are useless I respeted q up for PvP and when I got there teleport to BRK an the front lines the keep was being hit I got class, weapon and armor passive guild for bonus damage and was getting Alliance passive as the door come open. Had my main and off bar set to defend as the front door was came down fast. After we pushed them back I completely forgot about my passives. and I played for the next five hours without any Race bonuses I only knew when I crossed water the slow speed made me think I was snared and got out looking for a fight.

When you can play for five hours at max level in PvP and not know you forget to get your race passives your race passive suck I mean really the whole night no Argonian anything.

Junkogen · August 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Argonian passives are useless I respeted q up for PvP and when I got there teleport to BRK an the front lines the keep was being hit I got class, weapon and armor passive guild for bonus damage and was getting Alliance passive as the door come open. Had my main and off bar set to defend as the front door was came down fast. After we pushed them back I completely forgot about my passives. and I played for the next five hours without any Race bonuses I only knew when I crossed water the slow speed made me think I was snared and got out looking for a fight.

When you can play for five hours at max level in PvP and not know you forget to get your race passives your race passive suck I mean really the whole night no Argonian anything.

Yeah, there's not much the passives do for us that would be noticeable. This is the reason I don't play much anymore. I just feel like I'm being fleeced by the developers.

AshTal · August 2015

I hope they are listening to all the Argonian posts. One issue is we have been a crap race for so long not many hard core PvPers or PvEers play Argonians so there are probably less of us to call for decent racial.

Right now they could give Argonians 50% health, magic and Stamina bonuses and no one would notice for months because the only people who would become super powerful would be a tiny group of players.

Lets hope the Dev's are listening and we at least get the 9% health bonus of the Nord and the bonus to healing given and received. If they think this will make us too power I don't mind losing the bonus when drinking a potion its worthless anyway.

Junkogen · August 2015

AshTal wrote: »

I hope they are listening to all the Argonian posts. One issue is we have been a crap race for so long not many hard core PvPers or PvEers play Argonians so there are probably less of us to call for decent racial.

Right now they could give Argonians 50% health, magic and Stamina bonuses and no one would notice for months because the only people who would become super powerful would be a tiny group of players.

Lets hope the Dev's are listening and we at least get the 9% health bonus of the Nord and the bonus to healing given and received. If they think this will make us too power I don't mind losing the bonus when drinking a potion its worthless anyway.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. I don't get why Argonians don't get the same bonus to health as the Nords. Again, what are they seeing that no one else sees? It seems to me that they think the Argonians are balanced somehow and we're just complaining about nothing. It would be nice to get some kind of explanation as to why the passives are being kept how they are. What makes the Argonian passives so great compared to other races? I feel like they just don't want to take the time to redesign the passives and if that's the case why not give the crap passives we have meaningful boosts that make it worth taking Argonians over other races. They jacked up the Bosmer stam regen to 21%. Why don't Argonians get something comparable?

ThatNeonZebraAgain · August 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

AshTal wrote: »

I hope they are listening to all the Argonian posts. One issue is we have been a crap race for so long not many hard core PvPers or PvEers play Argonians so there are probably less of us to call for decent racial.

Right now they could give Argonians 50% health, magic and Stamina bonuses and no one would notice for months because the only people who would become super powerful would be a tiny group of players.

Lets hope the Dev's are listening and we at least get the 9% health bonus of the Nord and the bonus to healing given and received. If they think this will make us too power I don't mind losing the bonus when drinking a potion its worthless anyway.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. I don't get why Argonians don't get the same bonus to health as the Nords. Again, what are they seeing that no one else sees? It seems to me that they think the Argonians are balanced somehow and we're just complaining about nothing. It would be nice to get some kind of explanation as to why the passives are being kept how they are. What makes the Argonian passives so great compared to other races? I feel like they just don't want to take the time to redesign the passives and if that's the case why not give the crap passives we have meaningful boosts that make it worth taking Argonians over other races. They jacked up the Bosmer stam regen to 21%. Why don't Argonians get something comparable?

There's actually a lot of things I'd really like to hear their reasoning behind, Argonian passives being one of them.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2015

The only reason I play Argonian is cause I been play this series since I was 6 years old. Outside of my Shadow Scales love I would have dropped the race long ago I have never played a different race and don't plan on starting. After dropping my sub, playing other games and falling behind on my CP if this next update doesn't add something worth having to Argonians I will just have to call it.

I loved this game for the lore it had a chance to open up and more the a year later all we will get is now fight in the Imperial City not just outside it and rebuild the Orc homeland not a DC race. Have zero reasons to literally build up your enemies well you're still at war well just remember Cadwell ex machina.

Verrask · August 2015

I'm not going away ZoS. Fix Argonians. I challenge all developers to put forth a relevant argonian build of any kind.

Junkogen · August 2015

Verrask wrote: »

I'm not going away ZoS. Fix Argonians. I challenge all developers to put forth a relevant argonian build of any kind.

"Challenge not accepted."

The developers are sadists. They're getting a kick out of how bent out of shape we are. The population of serious Argonian players is so small they don't have to care if we leave. The Khajiit on the other hand got their crap Robust passive changed to give them stamina regen and Orcs got a flat damage boost.

Meanwhile, Eric Wrobel laughs maniacally from his ivory tower....

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2015

Khajiits are a stamina min/max races ZOS wouldn't dare endanger losing them. Argonian on the other hand with basically no real passives, asked for change for a year and a half and what do we get a kind of sort of technically a buff. Khajiits make a few post and stop work on everything what they think matters let's make them complacent again.

Edit: Grammar.

Jar_Ek · August 2015

Technically if you stack healing received armour with Argonian racials, with a major mending buff and champion points in both blessed and the healing received one with some decent heals then you probably have a decent build. It may not do much but stay alive, but will sure as he'll do that with about 90% heals. Unfortunately that is the antithesis of play as you want requiring quite specific skills and armour sets (and buffs that are not available to all classes).

Tonnopesce · August 2015

I quote myself since i've predicted it...

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

They will ignore this thread as usual...

Great job btw #ArgoniansNeedLove not just lusty maids!

This was not the answer "we" wanted

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

No more racial passive changes? I know last time they didn't get added to the notes until later

Is this the last update before pts goes live?

The racial passives that are on the PTS now are what we plan to stick with for the Imperial City live game patch. We will, of course, continue to evaluate how they're doing and encourage your feedback.

GJ ZoS on ignoring Argonians...

ThatNeonZebraAgain · August 2015

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

No more racial passive changes? I know last time they didn't get added to the notes until later

Is this the last update before pts goes live?

The racial passives that are on the PTS now are what we plan to stick with for the Imperial City live game patch. We will, of course, continue to evaluate how they're doing and encourage your feedback.

Aw damn, where was that posted?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2015

W

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Technically if you stack healing received armour with Argonian racials, with a major mending buff and champion points in both blessed and the healing received one with some decent heals then you probably have a decent build. It may not do much but stay alive, but will sure as he'll do that with about 90% heals. Unfortunately that is the antithesis of play as you want requiring quite specific skills and armour sets (and buffs that are not available to all classes).

When the only way to see you Race buff matter is stacking healing received and health. Then again with 6% heal thing received and 3% max health that build would be better with any other races so not even an Everlasting heals build cause you will be lacking stamina and magic. Not to mention the lack of spell and weapon damage with those builds so your own heals will be weak and you would be able to use them too much. You would need a healer at your back 24/7

Tonnopesce · August 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

MrGrimey wrote: »

No more racial passive changes? I know last time they didn't get added to the notes until later

Is this the last update before pts goes live?

The racial passives that are on the PTS now are what we plan to stick with for the Imperial City live game patch. We will, of course, continue to evaluate how they're doing and encourage your feedback.

Aw damn, where was that posted?

New PTS patch notes page 2