Why does NO ONE bash/interrupt?

starkerealm · August 2015

tplink3r1 wrote: »

All abilities that can get interrupted are ranged, and i don't think you can bash people 20+ meter away.

One: No. Some melee skills can also be bashed.

Two: So what? If your job is to be the tank, and you're supposed to stop the huge AoE death spray, then it is your job to be in the boss's face, punching them in the snout every time they get out of line, so that the DPS do not die.

RizaHawkeye · August 2015

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

My reflexes aren't that good, I wish I was better at interrupts...

I'm not the best gamer in the world by far, but I'm going to make a couple of suggestions that will help in the reflex department:

1. Interrupts are almost purely a matter of animation spotting. If the big wind-up isn't a clue, then learn to spot the bright red spot on the ground. You really can't miss it. As soon as it appears, right click on the mouse to block, give it a beat, then smack them with the left mouse key while still holding the right mouse button down. (You should actually practice this until you get a good feel for it.) Your shield (or weapons) will smack the mob in the head, and they will go dizzy. Now - this is key - you're very next attack should be a hard or heavy attack .... just punch the left mouse button as hard as you can. You're enemy will usually drop down and from here on its gravy.

You can also use this to disable one enemy when fighting two.

2. Roll dodging. I sucked at roll dodging when I started the game. Then someone gave me a great suggestion: remap the roll dodge key. I set mine to R (for "roll dodge", get it? Roll dodge? Oh never mind). Really, I set it to R because it's a really easy key to reach with a lightning fast index finger. The difference between using R and using the double click is about half the time the double click didn't do anything for me (my character didn't dodge) ... and hitting the R works every singe time I press it. Every time. EVERY time.

Roll dodge is part of my ... oh what did @Phinix1 call it? ... oh yes, my "I'M SO AMAZING" rotation. If my enemy is in my face, I interrupt. If I suddenly see a red circle and someone is saying "Light it up!" (I mean, 'cause whatever happens next CAN'T be good, right?) ... I press the R key and I'm out of there.

3. Invest in a gaming mouse. Really, think about it. I leave it at that.

Okay, that's all I know about. But then, hey, I'm just a twenty-something girl, you know one of those "kids these days" who was spoiled by WoW even though she never played WoW for more than a week and who doesn't have that special level of condensation that comes from having played Morrowind before it was a GOTY winner.

What IS IT with kids these days?!

Farorin · August 2015

I interrupt whenever I get the chance, it's my favourite, especially in PVP because no one expects it. Favourite thing to interrupt = Jesus beam with my venom arrow.

Groggpuffar · August 2015

i bash/interrupt whenever I can, sometimes too late though..

starkerealm · August 2015

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

3. Invest in a gaming mouse. Really, think about it. I leave it at that.

Honestly, a gaming mice and keyboard are pretty useful, even if you just spend a lot of time at the computer working. At least for me, they tend to be a lot more comfortable for extended typing than a normal keyboard, though, as always, actually make sure you can get a feel for the mouse and keyboard before you buy them, and find one that works for you. All the ergonomics really do pay off, just for ease of use.

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

When you say "No one bash/interrupt" your topic is automatically ridiculous and silly, because you are like trying to tell us you have meet every single person in game and determined that no one, not a single person bashes/interrupts.

But regarding topic, thanks to ZOS you will see less and less bashing. Because apparently shield bashing also stops your stamina from regenerating on PTS (thanks to ZOS stupid and unjustified nerf "0 stamina regen while blocking"). So now tanks will have to save stamina for actual blocking, and because it wont regenerate anymore they might run out of it when they try to bash someone.

I_killed_Vivec · August 2015

I bash all the time.

In fact quite often I bash 'em until they are dead because it's an easy instant hit where you don't have to wait for the wind-up of a heavy attack.

And my character usually starts screaming while I do it, which adds to the blood lust

Rev Rielle · August 2015

Phinix1 wrote: »

In instances, when you see that flashy, extremely obvious animation windup and telegraphed red zone pointing at your healer/etc., why in the name of all the gods is it so hard for people in melee to adapt their "I'm so amazing" rotation and do their job to bash them to interrupt it?

Maybe "kids these days" were spoiled by WoW and figure they can just stand in fire and rely on healers to save them while they tunnel, but no one else can see your DPS in this game, so the only way they have to know if you are terribad is seeing you constantly refuse to do simple things like bash.

How hard is it to adapt and why does literally no one seem to do it?

I totally agree.

I'm constantly amazed in pledge groups how many players seem unaware of this. And worse still, when you ask them if they could - as it's everyones responsibility - they say that don't have a skill that can do that. Personally I think interrupting is one of the most important/valuable skills in the game to have, I cannot understand how players are not aware of it.

Your tank is not able to be in two or three places at once, so whilst it can be often expected to be up to them to interrupt boss telegraphed attacks that are able to be interrupted, when there are multiple enemies everyone should be aware and take it upon themselves.

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

In instances, when you see that flashy, extremely obvious animation windup and telegraphed red zone pointing at your healer/etc., why in the name of all the gods is it so hard for people in melee to adapt their "I'm so amazing" rotation and do their job to bash them to interrupt it?

Maybe "kids these days" were spoiled by WoW and figure they can just stand in fire and rely on healers to save them while they tunnel, but no one else can see your DPS in this game, so the only way they have to know if you are terribad is seeing you constantly refuse to do simple things like bash.

How hard is it to adapt and why does literally no one seem to do it?

I totally agree.

I'm constantly amazed in pledge groups how many players seem unaware of this. And worse still, when you ask them if they could - as it's everyones responsibility - they say that don't have a skill that can do that. Personally I think interrupting is one of the most important/valuable skills in the game to have, I cannot understand how players are not aware or if.

Your tank is not able to be in two or three places at once, so whilst it can be often expected to be up to them to interrupt boss telegraphed attacks that are able to be interrupted, when there are multiple enemies everyone should be aware and take it upon themselves.

Shada's Tear in craglorn turned out to me several times as a test to see how people react if someone tells them to try interrupting. The Archmages that cast auto aimed attacks that knock down player. Been there several times doing daily quest, some groups know its natural to interrupt. Some groups had such high DPS they didnt have to. In some groups it cost multiple wipes to explain who you have to interrupt, how to interrupt, why to interrupt and when to interrupt (people didnt know they even have skills that interrupt, is that a problem with tooltip that it doesnt tell that this skill can interrupt?)

Azurulia · August 2015

I noticed this as well right away. That nobody seems to know how to stop anything.

Heck, as a healer I find myself going way out of my way to bash things in effort to save me from healing the damage the casts or abilities will do. Because lets face it. You know they aren't going to block or dodge the things, so may as well stop them myself before they go off.

Rune_Relic · August 2015

Bash ? Meh.... shield charge

UrQuan · August 2015

When I'm tanking I consider it to be part of my job to interrupt anything interruptable being done by whatever I'm holding aggro on. If there are adds that the DPS are dealing with while I'm holding aggro on the boss, it's their job to interrupt anything the adds are doing, although depending on the add sometimes it's easier just to DPS through it, and that's fine. When I'm playing solo, sometimes I bother with interrupting and sometimes I don't: most of the time in solo play you can do fine without bothering, so I tend to only interrupt when I'm actively trying to play as efficiently as possible.

Talemire · August 2015

I've wondered the same thing. Every group I've ever been in I've been the only one to do this. Never seen anyone else do it before.

waterfairy · August 2015

I usually interrupt them with an uppercut or stonefist.

The better question would be why do some people not avoid the red ring of death on the floor?

CGPsaint · August 2015

If I have to bash to interrupt, then I'm doing something really wrong whilst wielding my bow...

The Uninvited · August 2015

Xjcon wrote: »

Stuff dies to fast to worrie about it in dungeons. I chains all the ranged to me when I tank and good dps have it down long before it becomes an issue.

HRC is the only place I can think that requires a bash/interupt.

And even there it can be done without, if you have high dps. The mages in DSA are the only ones I can think of that don't go down fast enough for me.

ShadowMage · August 2015

I never could get the timing right on the bash/interrupt so I learned to dodge. Remapped the key and it's been working pretty good for me. One question though: Is it possible to dodge the 2h uppercut attack (I don't know the skill name) or is that something that can only be interrupted? Everytime I try to roll away from it, I end up getting clobbered anyway...

UrQuan · August 2015

Vigarr wrote: »

The better question would be why do some people not avoid the red ring of death on the floor?

There's a saying. I'm not sure who coined it, but it gets repeated frequently amongst my friends and guildies:

Don't stand in stupid.

Of course, that's a general rule. If you know the fight, and you know you don't need to worry much about that particular red ring/cone/whatever then you can feel free to stand in it if you can do your role more effectively by staying there. Typically that only applies to tanks, though, and especially when they're specifically trying to hold the boss in one place and don't want to move out of that place and have the boss follow them.

Unfortunately, in my experience melee DPS tend to be the ones who are most likely to be guilty of standing in stupid, and it frequently leads to their demise. Depending on the DPS they may then blame the healer, or they may realize that they shouldn't have done that and say "oh wow, sorry guys". If it's the latter, then there's hope for them! I mean we all sometimes fail to get out of the stupid for whatever reason. As long as we recognize our mistakes and try not to do it again, that's what really matters. If you stay in stupid and then blame the healer for your death, on the other hand, then you're simply a bad player.

traigusb14_ESO2 · August 2015

ShadowMage wrote: »

I never could get the timing right on the bash/interrupt so I learned to dodge. Remapped the key and it's been working pretty good for me. One question though: Is it possible to dodge the 2h uppercut attack (I don't know the skill name) or is that something that can only be interrupted? Everytime I try to roll away from it, I end up getting clobbered anyway...

That one can be blocked... another skill non-tanks never learn.

I bash, and I do it reflexively (along with blocking adds that are hitting me) . My New Xbox Caster DPS guy is usually the ones that needs the least healing / the one that ends up rezing everyone. When I heal, I swear I end up tanking all the adds anyway.

Everyone has access to bashing, even ranged guys. Destro staff has a cast interrupt, so does bow. There are any number of class skills that can bash as well... all listed clearly in the tooltips.

Note to non-tanks: blocking is also your friend.

I also blame nerfing of VR zones. You had to learn this stuff to solo through there before. Now... not so much. On xbox I have seen a lot of people kinda hang around to join in on other people's fights in upper VR now, because they can't solo the easy versions.
They leveled up with 7 other people face rolling everything at the same time as they are going through, and never learned to fight.

PVP people on Xbox are mostly the same way... outside a 30 person zerg they have no clue. It is fun to watch a keep guard kill 4 people in a row that just run up and try to temp stabby spear it to death without blocking or bashing.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

Phinix1 wrote: »

Mighty_oakk wrote: »

Generally as a tank I can usually get 90% of them. Dps can dps

But with ZOS removing stamina regen while blocking, can tanks really afford the stamina to take up the slack from "I'm so amazing" tunnel vision DPS? I don't think they can. Better to learn the actual game mechanics now rather than growing to rely on training wheels I say.

Actually, it's just better to kill things faster before the tank folds.

UrQuan · August 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Mighty_oakk wrote: »

Generally as a tank I can usually get 90% of them. Dps can dps

But with ZOS removing stamina regen while blocking, can tanks really afford the stamina to take up the slack from "I'm so amazing" tunnel vision DPS? I don't think they can. Better to learn the actual game mechanics now rather than growing to rely on training wheels I say.

Actually, it's just better to kill things faster before the tank folds.

A blanket statement like that is guaranteed to be wrong sometimes. The truth is that it's sometimes better to just DPS things down faster rather than bother with an interrupt, and it's sometimes better to interrupt. A good DPS will recognize that, and will know when he should and shouldn't be interrupting.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Mighty_oakk wrote: »

Generally as a tank I can usually get 90% of them. Dps can dps

But with ZOS removing stamina regen while blocking, can tanks really afford the stamina to take up the slack from "I'm so amazing" tunnel vision DPS? I don't think they can. Better to learn the actual game mechanics now rather than growing to rely on training wheels I say.

Actually, it's just better to kill things faster before the tank folds.

A blanket statement like that is guaranteed to be wrong sometimes. The truth is that it's sometimes better to just DPS things down faster rather than bother with an interrupt, and it's sometimes better to interrupt. A good DPS will recognize that, and will know when he should and shouldn't be interrupting.

Option 1 : Take turns bashing something
Option 2 : Kill it

UrQuan · August 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Mighty_oakk wrote: »

Generally as a tank I can usually get 90% of them. Dps can dps

But with ZOS removing stamina regen while blocking, can tanks really afford the stamina to take up the slack from "I'm so amazing" tunnel vision DPS? I don't think they can. Better to learn the actual game mechanics now rather than growing to rely on training wheels I say.

Actually, it's just better to kill things faster before the tank folds.

A blanket statement like that is guaranteed to be wrong sometimes. The truth is that it's sometimes better to just DPS things down faster rather than bother with an interrupt, and it's sometimes better to interrupt. A good DPS will recognize that, and will know when he should and shouldn't be interrupting.

Option 1 : Take turns bashing something
Option 2 : Kill it

Um, no. Know what the interruptable ability is and make the decision as to whether to interrupt it or just DPS based on what it does. Is it going to knock a player down and force them to either be out of the fight for a bit or use resources breaking free (and still be out of the fight for a bit, just a slightly shorter bit)? Interrupt. Is it healing someone and going to make you take longer to kill that thing if you don't interrupt it? Interrupt. Is it just going to cause more damage but won't significantly increase the risk of someone actually getting killed? Don't interrupt.

And so on... If you're not making evaluations like that and instead you're just blindly DPSing then you're playing poorly.

Zanfire · August 2015

Dunnow m8. I'm a Tank, I bash for work.

But I know the feel. Perhaps, used to soloing, where bashing is useless when your DPS kills a mob in 3 hits, a very-techical-and-pro-bash seems a waste of time to way too many people.

Xendyn · August 2015

Zanfire wrote: »

Dunnow m8. I'm a Tank, I bash for work.

But I know the feel. Perhaps, used to soloing, where bashing is useless when your DPS kills a mob in 3 hits, a very-techical-and-pro-bash seems a waste of time to way too many people.

Aye and therein lies the problem. ZOS has dumbed the game down so much that people no longer feel the need to actually learn the mechanics. This is what going to the lowest common denominator gets you.

Xjcon · August 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

Stuff dies to fast to worrie about it in dungeons. I chains all the ranged to me when I tank and good dps have it down long before it becomes an issue.

HRC is the only place I can think that requires a bash/interupt.

And even there it can be done without, if you have high dps. The mages in DSA are the only ones I can think of that don't go down fast enough for me.

Yes forgot about dsa. Bosses in round 6, 7, and 8 need interupted but only certain things. If it's something that can be moved away from then don't bother, just reposition. While they are charging up its zero damage going out and if you moved out of its effect then that mob/boss was doing no damage to the group during that time.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Mighty_oakk wrote: »

Generally as a tank I can usually get 90% of them. Dps can dps

But with ZOS removing stamina regen while blocking, can tanks really afford the stamina to take up the slack from "I'm so amazing" tunnel vision DPS? I don't think they can. Better to learn the actual game mechanics now rather than growing to rely on training wheels I say.

Actually, it's just better to kill things faster before the tank folds.

A blanket statement like that is guaranteed to be wrong sometimes. The truth is that it's sometimes better to just DPS things down faster rather than bother with an interrupt, and it's sometimes better to interrupt. A good DPS will recognize that, and will know when he should and shouldn't be interrupting.

Option 1 : Take turns bashing something
Option 2 : Kill it

Um, no. Know what the interruptable ability is and make the decision as to whether to interrupt it or just DPS based on what it does. Is it going to knock a player down and force them to either be out of the fight for a bit or use resources breaking free (and still be out of the fight for a bit, just a slightly shorter bit)? Interrupt. Is it healing someone and going to make you take longer to kill that thing if you don't interrupt it? Interrupt. Is it just going to cause more damage but won't significantly increase the risk of someone actually getting killed? Don't interrupt.

And so on... If you're not making evaluations like that and instead you're just blindly DPSing then you're playing poorly.

Playing right you mean.

How about we both bring up some examples to show what we mean.

VDSA Round 1- Marcauld
VDSA Round 7 - Dark Mage
VDSA Round 10 - Marcauld

All of these fights include an enemy that has a decent health pool and a mechanic that bashing can prevent. In each of them the tanks job is to bash so that the DPS have less work. The DPS also have to kill so that the tank has less work.

Hypothetically the DPS could bash those mechanics, but it

1. Isn't their job
2. Isn't practical
3. Isn't correct play

Fights will go smoother when everyone has an assigned role. That is why it is important for tanks to bash. Tanks know their role, are already holding block, and therefore bash more efficiently than the other roles.

Interrupt skills are interesting, but come with inefficiencies of their own; they lower the DPS and take up a valuable skill slot.

What is correct in VDSA, for some people, is just completing. For the good players, it is completing faster. To complete faster the DPS need to be doing more DPS and not concerned with split second interrupts and bashes which would lower their DPS.

The balancing act is clear. What is right, what is correct, and what is the hallmark of a good DPS player is for them to be concerned with dealing damage, not doing the tanks job in an inefficient way which will consequentially consume time.

For a split second, on the PTS, I thought a DPS could help me bash Champion Marcauld on round 10. The DPS also considered an interrupt ability to stop the champions deadly Circle of Protection heal. They really didn't have time for those shenanigans and the eventual solution was killing Marcauld faster. We figured out a way to kill him faster which made me able to do my job, them able to do their job, and we achieved the first VDSA NA clear on the PTS.

Pallmor · August 2015

Phinix1 wrote: »

In instances, when you see that flashy, extremely obvious animation windup and telegraphed red zone pointing at your healer/etc., why in the name of all the gods is it so hard for people in melee to adapt their "I'm so amazing" rotation and do their job to bash them to interrupt it?

Maybe "kids these days" were spoiled by WoW and figure they can just stand in fire and rely on healers to save them while they tunnel, but no one else can see your DPS in this game, so the only way they have to know if you are terribad is seeing you constantly refuse to do simple things like bash.

How hard is it to adapt and why does literally no one seem to do it?

It takes timing and practice to use it consistently. I didn't learn how to use it properly at first either (most enemies are hardly worth the bother). I was well into my first vet character before I really began learning to block and interrupt properly. And I still miss it sometimes even now. And, I hate to admit it, but I still don't dodge roll much. It's just a learning process.

UrQuan · August 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Mighty_oakk wrote: »

Generally as a tank I can usually get 90% of them. Dps can dps

But with ZOS removing stamina regen while blocking, can tanks really afford the stamina to take up the slack from "I'm so amazing" tunnel vision DPS? I don't think they can. Better to learn the actual game mechanics now rather than growing to rely on training wheels I say.

Actually, it's just better to kill things faster before the tank folds.

A blanket statement like that is guaranteed to be wrong sometimes. The truth is that it's sometimes better to just DPS things down faster rather than bother with an interrupt, and it's sometimes better to interrupt. A good DPS will recognize that, and will know when he should and shouldn't be interrupting.

Option 1 : Take turns bashing something
Option 2 : Kill it

Um, no. Know what the interruptable ability is and make the decision as to whether to interrupt it or just DPS based on what it does. Is it going to knock a player down and force them to either be out of the fight for a bit or use resources breaking free (and still be out of the fight for a bit, just a slightly shorter bit)? Interrupt. Is it healing someone and going to make you take longer to kill that thing if you don't interrupt it? Interrupt. Is it just going to cause more damage but won't significantly increase the risk of someone actually getting killed? Don't interrupt.

And so on... If you're not making evaluations like that and instead you're just blindly DPSing then you're playing poorly.

Playing right you mean.

How about we both bring up some examples to show what we mean.

VDSA Round 1- Marcauld
VDSA Round 7 - Dark Mage
VDSA Round 10 - Marcauld

All of these fights include an enemy that has a decent health pool and a mechanic that bashing can prevent. In each of them the tanks job is to bash so that the DPS have less work. The DPS also have to kill so that the tank has less work.

Hypothetically the DPS could bash those mechanics, but it

1. Isn't their job
2. Isn't practical
3. Isn't correct play

Fights will go smoother when everyone has an assigned role. That is why it is important for tanks to bash. Tanks know their role, are already holding block, and therefore bash more efficiently than the other roles.

Interrupt skills are interesting, but come with inefficiencies of their own; they lower the DPS and take up a valuable skill slot.

What is correct in VDSA, for some people, is just completing. For the good players, it is completing faster. To complete faster the DPS need to be doing more DPS and not concerned with split second interrupts and bashes which would lower their DPS.

The balancing act is clear. What is right, what is correct, and what is the hallmark of a good DPS player is for them to be concerned with dealing damage, not doing the tanks job in an inefficient way which will consequentially consume time.

For a split second, on the PTS, I thought a DPS could help me bash Champion Marcauld on round 10. The DPS also considered an interrupt ability to stop the champions deadly Circle of Protection heal. They really didn't have time for those shenanigans and the eventual solution was killing Marcauld faster. We figured out a way to kill him faster which made me able to do my job, them able to do their job, and we achieved the first VDSA NA clear on the PTS.

Given that I already specified earlier in this thread that it's the tank's role to interrupt whatever the tank is tanking, I would have thought it was pretty clear that I was talking about cases in which the DPS is taking down an add that's doing something interruptable, and not talking about interrupting bosses or whatever the tank is on...I guess that went over your head though. And actually, looking back at the post by someone else that you were originally responding to, I can understand why: because they were talking about a DPS using an interrupt to save a tank from doing it. That's not what I was talking about, though - I was talking about the cases when it's smarter for a DPS to interrupt than to just cause damage. I don't include cases when the tank should be interrupting in that category.

waterfairy · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Don't stand in stupid.

I'm borrowing that one...I have a friend who has a bad habit of standing in stupid.