the baffling changes to racial passives in 2.1

xylena · August 2015

whoever is making these decisions on racial passives is woefully out of touch with how players actually approach endgame pvp and competitive pve

can orcs and nords at least get the same "robust constitution" buff that khajits did? you guys do realize that even with the healing nerf in pvp, that health regen is an absurdly tiny number compared to even self healing, let alone heals received by templars in your group or pugs spamming healing springs?

if orcs are supposed to be the warrior race and nords the tank race, having a racial stamina regen buff is absolutely essential (unless you stop playing at level 49)... as it stands how, they're a joke compared to bosmer, redguard, imperial, khajit

and then there's argonians... poor argonians

Personofsecrets · August 2015

agreed

Strider_Roshin · August 2015

xylena wrote: »

whoever is making these decisions on racial passives is woefully out of touch with how players actually approach endgame pvp and competitive pve

can orcs and nords at least get the same "robust constitution" buff that khajits did? you guys do realize that even with the healing nerf in pvp, that health regen is an absurdly tiny number compared to even self healing, let alone heals received by templars in your group or pugs spamming healing springs?

if orcs are supposed to be the warrior race and nords the tank race, having a racial stamina regen buff is absolutely essential (unless you stop playing at level 49)... as it stands how, they're a joke compared to bosmer, redguard, imperial, khajit

and then there's argonians... poor argonians

I'm hoping they bring robust constitution to the Orcs and Nords as well. I like how they were comfortable dumping robust on those 3 races but only the khajiits managed to get out of the deal. And now with the changes being done with the werewolf and refreshing shadows, this racial change will help ease the nerf they did on stamina regeneration.

Brasseurfb16_ESO · August 2015

xylena wrote: »

whoever is making these decisions on racial passives is woefully out of touch with how players actually approach endgame pvp and competitive pve

can orcs and nords at least get the same "robust constitution" buff that khajits did? you guys do realize that even with the healing nerf in pvp, that health regen is an absurdly tiny number compared to even self healing, let alone heals received by templars in your group or pugs spamming healing springs?

if orcs are supposed to be the warrior race and nords the tank race, having a racial stamina regen buff is absolutely essential (unless you stop playing at level 49)... as it stands how, they're a joke compared to bosmer, redguard, imperial, khajit

and then there's argonians... poor argonians

Robust is a very good passive when you actualy build your tank character around health regen. Is it situational, yes? But aren't most racial passive situational already?

Sithisvoid · August 2015

Honestly it does nothing to my stamina based kajiit nightblade becasue they are destroying nightblade stamina regen. Without this you might as well never roll another kajiit. I'm honestly looking at deleting mine already. I'm not sure how this even got to be something they are adding stamina nightblade already has it hard enough. I have to sneak, sprint, dodgeroll and use all my abilities from the same pool and now it refreshes half as fast. Didn't have enough to begin with or enough health even with the kajjiit heath regen. How am i supposed to actually fight?

xylena · August 2015

Robust is a very good passive when you actualy build your tank character around health regen.

i've run my nord DK through VDSA as both a stam build and magicka build... she's an alliance rank 39 legate on EP... at no point was increased health regen even remotely noticeable once self-healing abilities such as rally, vigor, dragon blood, burning embers, deep breath, entropy, etc entered the picture... to say nothing of the incredible burst heals provided by allies

health regen is useful while leveling a new character through solo pve, but is a worthless stat to invest in at endgame where your ability to sustain stamina and/or magicka are far more relevant to your success than an extra 500hp every 2 seconds

with the changes to blocking and stamina regen, having a racial passive that buffs stamina regen is absolutely essential to keep nords and orcs competitive with other races, in the same way that it was given to khajit so they could be competitive with bosmer, redguard, and imperial builds

Strider_Roshin · August 2015

xylena wrote: »

Robust is a very good passive when you actualy build your tank character around health regen.

i've run my nord DK through VDSA as both a stam build and magicka build... she's an alliance rank 39 legate on EP... at no point was increased health regen even remotely noticeable once self-healing abilities such as rally, vigor, dragon blood, burning embers, deep breath, entropy, etc entered the picture... to say nothing of the incredible burst heals provided by allies

health regen is useful while leveling a new character through solo pve, but is a worthless stat to invest in at endgame where your ability to sustain stamina and/or magicka are far more relevant to your success than an extra 500hp every 2 seconds

with the changes to blocking and stamina regen, having a racial passive that buffs stamina regen is absolutely essential to keep nords and orcs competitive with other races, in the same way that it was given to khajit so they could be competitive with bosmer, redguard, and imperial builds

Especially if you're going to tank, and my goodness does ZOS think the only attribute required for tanking is health? Last I checked it requires stamina to block attacks, and with the recent changes to blocking and being a werewolf, keeping up your stamina is going to be increasingly more difficult. If ZOS wants Nords to be better tanks, then they need to give them the new robust constitution. Give it to orcs as well. No one should be stuck with that horrible robust passive.

AshTal · August 2015

Let's hope the weaker races get decent bonuses and ones which are actually useful. Argonian bonuses to healing after drinking a potion are just rubbish and need to be revamped. Even the bonus to healing received is only useful to healers and is very weak. Even the health bonus is less than nords or imperial.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · August 2015

xylena wrote: »

and then there's argonians... poor argonians

Wait aren't argonians the NPC race that I do quests for in Shadowfen once in a while

I have to agree, there are only a few races worth playing now, and the rest are for RPer who want a real challenge.

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2015

Yea kinda silly not giving it to the other 2 warrior races but again save Argonians first then the other races.

asteldian · August 2015

I was gobsmacked when only Khajiit had Robust changed. When ZOS said they were buffing the weaker races I thought it was no coincidence that 3 of the races mentioned had that crappy passive. I assumed it would be removed on all of them.
Robust Constitution is excellent, giving 10% regen while also keeping a high health regen for the few people who like to build around it. Heck, my Redguard would definitely take that over the 9% regen...course I would never trade Adrenaline Rush for it

ThatNeonZebraAgain · August 2015

For those interested, who is a consolidated analysis and suggestion list concerning Argonian passives

Armitas · August 2015

Nord

Resist Frost - The only thing I know of that uses frost damage is a frost atronach, one of the easiest atronachs in the game to avoid manually.

Robust - The health recovery is useless, in PvP disease cuts it in half and burst is king. In PvE if you're dying because of a lack of healthy recovery then you need to fire your healer. If you die as a tank in PvE it is because you stood in red, or failed to block.

Please, don't miss out on this opportunity to make the racials competitive.

Teiji · August 2015

Remove health regen from all items, glyphs and passives please.

What about Orgnums scales? Simple - you receive X amount of health whenever you take damage, which is effected by healing taken and healing done champion passives etc.

baratron · August 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Resist Frost - The only thing I know of that uses frost damage is a frost atronach, one of the easiest atronachs in the game to avoid manually.

What about liches and ice mages? I can think of several bosses in Veteran Dungeons and Craglorn delves who cast a ring of frost on the ground, and it's deadly to non-Tanks unless they happen to be Nords.

Cathexis · August 2015

I just don't understand how when the forums cried "buff the weak racials" that somehow showed up on the devs screens as "Buff the aldmeri dominion racials."

Zsymon · August 2015

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Robust is a very good passive when you actualy build your tank character around health regen. Is it situational, yes? But aren't most racial passive situational already?

The problem is that characters build around health recovery, are worthless in both PvE and PvP.. it only helps a little in solo PvE (i.e. leveling).

Even with 4K health recovery it doesn't make any difference, healing will always be far better.

Gyudan · August 2015

I think they opened Pandora's box with those changes.

Aquanova · August 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

I just don't understand how when the forums cried "buff the weak racials" that somehow showed up on the devs screens as "Buff the aldmeri dominion racials."

Didn't you know that's their favorite faction?

ColtPython · August 2015

After earning a significant amount of CP, my fancy wood elf passives are quite useless now. I would be very much better off rolling an imperial or an Orc in 2.1. I've had my wood elf since launch before the introduction of CP and removal of soft caps. Now it's pretty clear that after a certain lvl of CP the only racial passive a that matter are increase damage or increase max stam/magic. Increase health works too as I can then dump all attibutes and armor glyphs into magic/stam. Anyways, pretty much all other passives can be compensated for with CP. Except for swim speed!!

Armitas · August 2015

baratron wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Resist Frost - The only thing I know of that uses frost damage is a frost atronach, one of the easiest atronachs in the game to avoid manually.

What about liches and ice mages? I can think of several bosses in Veteran Dungeons and Craglorn delves who cast a ring of frost on the ground, and it's deadly to non-Tanks unless they happen to be Nords.

Oh yeah I forgot about those but you can manually avoid their ice wall as well. That same type attack exists as a different element on fire mages and dwemer we all learn to avoid their attacks no matter what element they are. You just walk over a bit and you're at 100% mititgation. Having trouble remembering the liches so I can't comment.

I did each craglorn delve once never to return again and veteran dungeons are mostly a triviality now. Some of the bosses don't even live long enough to go through their mechanics. Any red rings on the ground are deadly to anyone, you move out of them or you die. I don't rely on my nord skin to get away with standing in red rings, and I don't let my max health become so low that I can die from a single mistake in a red circle of any element. Basically if a red ring goes down you don't ask it what element it is, you get up off it.

Frost resistance just isn't a factor that plays out in any important way, aside from the noted standing in red stuff or not avoiding ground waves but all that can be avoided manually.

Next to no one uses it in PvP either as it's only real source is a frost staff and, fire is so much better on it's own and tons better against vamps. Then you have dragon knight which are all fire damage, there is no ice class out there to make ice resistance important. Fire resistance just outclasses frost resistance by leaps and bounds, even lightening resistance outclasses it due to sorcs. There is just nothing out there worth worrying about to put some value into frost resistance.

Ahzek · August 2015

@ColtPython your wood elf stam regen will allow you to use more weapon damage glyphs at least, compared to other races. So you can get a certain amount of offensive power indirectly over your racials.

Farorin · August 2015

Argonians do have it the worst, but I agree, they need to do more than they have done to make the passives viable.

MrGrimey · August 2015

I would love to know how the discussion to buff wood elf and high elf passives went with the balance team. All the while, Breton gets no adjustments since 2 of their passives have been mad useless due to soft cap removal and champion points. They're like a watered down version of high elfs with their measly 3% cost reduction and useless 4k spell resist.

I know it got reverted, but how did they even green light those buffs in the first place?

Araxleon · August 2015

Health Recovery should be changed to all RACES, its horrible...

maybe add racial morphs giving people multiple options?

ColtPython · August 2015

Ahzek wrote: »

@ColtPython your wood elf stam regen will allow you to use more weapon damage glyphs at least, compared to other races. So you can get a certain amount of offensive power indirectly over your racials.

I do use these weapon power glyphs, 3 of them. And its now getting to the point where if race change was an option, then I would either chose Imperial or Redguard because that is the only way for me to continue to get better numbers.

On the PTS it does seem that regerationn is more important again, but I'm guessing that eventually I'll be back to wanting a race change. The woodelf regerationn is very nice and makes it a contender for 4th place in min/max stamina builds, the reason being that after a certain point the Redguards, Imperials, and Orcs will have high enough sustain.

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

I just don't understand how when the forums cried "buff the weak racials" that somehow showed up on the devs screens as "Buff the aldmeri dominion racials."

Because ZOS has no idea of what balance is.

DKs brokenly OP? ZOS let that go for nearly a year.

Templars bottom of the barrel since launch? ZOS says they're working as intended.

Heavy Armor has always sucked? ZOS thinks its fine.

Argonian racials are terrible? Let's buff Altmer.

Really, they have no idea what they are doing.

ADarklore · August 2015

So are they still going ahead with the racial passive buffs to Altmer and Bosmer? I thought I'd read that they had reversed the decision to buff those two.