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ZOS....please make non-cp campaigns......and yes I know this has been said before
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Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?0 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭I'm just waiting for February to roll around. About that time the 3600 cp grinders should start popping up with the people who consistently play this game normally being at 1000. That should be interesting. I just feel bad for anyone who joins at the point. No chance of being competitive.
Also someone earlier in this thread said cps add build diversity which is not true and why they need to be fixed. Eventually, everyone will be able to use every buff and passive the system provides. That's ridiculous and is going to completely destroy the game's balance. The cp system would be fine if the cap was much smaller. Even if someone had 300 cps, 25 percent increase in only 3 different specialized areas isn't that bad. Alternatively multiple 10 percent buffs may also not be too detrimental. However, the overall buff to every single aspect of the character's being not only causes balance problems, but also goes against the game's entire design which is to give many options but only allowing you to utilize a few.Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert1 -
phairdon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Aren't there certain óptimal' builds for the different classes now for pvp & dungeons/trials?Your immersion is breaking my entitlement. Buff Sorc's. Darkshroud the cremator Death by furRubeus BlackFluffy knight BladesThe Fat PantherPsijic Fungal SausageFlesheater the VileCaspian Rafferty FernsbyArchfiend Warlock PiersThe Black BishopEvil Wizard Lizard (EU)Neberra Vestige Fajeon (EU)Salanis Deathstick (EU)Blood Mage Alchemist (EU)0 -
markt84✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.0 -
Woman✭✭✭Since I don't believe for a second that ZOS can quickly band-aid-fix the CP issue in any reasonable way, I'd like them to introduce CP-free campaigns which would let them buy the time they need to fix it properly - without having a large portion of the playerbase (those of us who just can't or doesn't want to spend 10 hours a day playing games) walk out on them as the grinders numbers escalate completely out of proportion.
You know, you certainly have a point there. I agree that CP is broken right now so temporarily disabling it in some campaigns would be beneficial, however that ignores the same issues that PvE'rs are having. Perhaps a No-CP leaderboard? I do think that once CP is fixed it should be implemented back in Vet PvP. I just find it frustrating that they haven't disabled it in Non-Vet yet when all the major guild leaders from Blackwater have discussed how vital it is and it's such a quick fix in comparison with the Vet campaigns.Hahaha come on dude really? Who is asking for non- sorc campaigns and it makes no sense to even ask for that. They already have no vet campaigns. They plan on getting rid of the vet system all together. What do you think will be the logical non normal campaign.....maybe non CPs? So why not do it now? Hahaha non-NB campaigns, dude you're just scared of losing your competive advantage and have to get by with skill, and that terrifies you
I think you missed the entire point of what I was saying... I'm probably the most anti-CP in Non-Vet you can get. Click here.1 -
markt84✭✭✭Since I don't believe for a second that ZOS can quickly band-aid-fix the CP issue in any reasonable way, I'd like them to introduce CP-free campaigns which would let them buy the time they need to fix it properly - without having a large portion of the playerbase (those of us who just can't or doesn't want to spend 10 hours a day playing games) walk out on them as the grinders numbers escalate completely out of proportion.
You know, you certainly have a point there. I agree that CP is broken right now so temporarily disabling it in some campaigns would be beneficial, however that ignores the same issues that PvE'rs are having. Perhaps a No-CP leaderboard? I do think that once CP is fixed it should be implemented back in Vet PvP. I just find it frustrating that they haven't disabled it in Non-Vet yet when all the major guild leaders from Blackwater have discussed how vital it is and it's such a quick fix in comparison with the Vet campaigns.Hahaha come on dude really? Who is asking for non- sorc campaigns and it makes no sense to even ask for that. They already have no vet campaigns. They plan on getting rid of the vet system all together. What do you think will be the logical non normal campaign.....maybe non CPs? So why not do it now? Hahaha non-NB campaigns, dude you're just scared of losing your competive advantage and have to get by with skill, and that terrifies you
I think you missed the entire point of what I was saying... I'm probably the most anti-CP in Non-Vet you can get. Click here.
My bad, took it as an attack on non-CPs. But of course you will have people saying this build is op, sorc shield is crazy, NB hide is BS, temp Jesus beam is op, DKs are just op, but this whole cp stuff will be a non issue. And if anyone ever cries about them again, everyone can just say, then go play in the non-cp campaign noob0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.Edited by dday3six on August 8, 2015 3:59PM0 -
markt84✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.0 -
Dru1076✭✭✭✭Crikey.... The amount of venom in this thread is astonishing.
Having an option to be free of CP's seems to really scare some people. Why? I hear the same old arguments over over ever since this idea was first doing the rounds. "cp's don't make any difference" "go grind points like everyone else" "learn to play" "git gud" etc etc. Not one good reason to not have optional cp free campaigns anywhere. The only one potential downside I saw as a reasonable point was that the campaigns would be low population if not dead. Given the number of times I have seen people express interest in the idea, I think these campaigns could possibly behind the most active.
I wasnt sure about the future of casual players in PVP, but @ZOS_BrianWheeler put that worry to bed when he indicated they are looking into how these campaigns could be introduced. It might take a while, but I have no doubt at all that we will see these campaigns sooner rather than later.Edited by Dru1076 on August 9, 2015 3:36AMAsk not what your sweetroll can do for you....1 -
markt84✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.0 -
markt84✭✭✭Crikey.... The amount of venom in this thread is astonishing.
Having an option to be free of CP's seems to really scare some people. Why? I hear the same old arguments over over ever since this idea was first doing the rounds. "cp's don't make any difference" "go grind points like everyone else" "learn to play" "git gud" etc etc. Not one good reason to not have optional cp free campaigns anywhere. The only one potential downside I saw as a reasonable point was that the campaigns would be low population if not dead. Given the number of times I have seen people express interest in the idea, I think these campaigns could possibly behind the most active.
I want sure about the future of casual players in PVP, but @ZOS_BrianWheeler put that worry to bed when he indicated they are looking into how these campaigns could be introduced. It might take a while, but I have no doubt at all that we will see these campaigns sooner rather than later.
Sorry I know I've been nasty in here. It just pisses me off that people are so against this idea when I'm not asking to touch their precious CPs. They just don't want other players to be able to avoid them. And I'm not asking to excluded them from anything. They can come play in the non-cp campaign too, they just have to leave their skill, I mean CPs, at the doorEdited by markt84 on August 9, 2015 3:24AM0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.
So you make no effort to maximize your build. You only want to PVP, is that correct? Did you ever think there was more to it than just CP?
I'm not saying CP isn't an issue. It very much is, in both PVE and PVP. What I am saying is that even without CP players that choose to maximize their builds will have a great advantage. They will be able to do things like deal 25% more damage. That number sound familiar?
You will not get "fair fights" in Cyrodiil, CP or not. PVP in ESO is linked to a vertical progression system. Even without CP that is the fact of the matter. Those players who work to climb that ladder are rewarded for it with stat advantages.0 -
Huggalump✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
This is exactly why I want a no cp campaign.
I play pvp games because I'm very competitive, but ESO kills that competitive edge for me because I have no idea how to improve. I'm on PC and I'm a new player, so when I die to someone it's impossibel to analyze if it was my mistakes or if it was CP. I feel like there's no way to analyze my own play and pvp ends up being a very empty experience.
1 -
markt84✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.
So you make no effort to maximize your build. You only want to PVP, is that correct? Did you ever think there was more to it than just CP?
I'm not saying CP isn't an issue. It very much is, in both PVE and PVP. What I am saying is that even without CP players that choose to maximize their builds will have a great advantage. They will be able to do things like deal 25% more damage. That number sound familiar?
You will not get "fair fights" in Cyrodiil, CP or not. PVP in ESO is linked to a vertical progression system. Even without CP that is the fact of the matter. Those players who work to climb that ladder are rewarded for it with stat advantages.
I get that builds matter, no on is arguing that. I get that people are better than other skill wise, I get that. But CPs eliminate all need for skill in this game. And that's fine the game has a continuous progression, I'm not saying remove that. It's cool to play a game where you never stop progressing. I'm not saying stop any of that. I'm just saying convert campaigns that are empty into non-cp campaigns. Everyone in them still gain xp and CPs, but while ur in a non-cp campaign your CPs aren't slotted. No one has to change their builds that are only made viable with CPs, because you don't have to play in non-cp campaigns. This will make CPs a non issue. They won't need to figure out how to make a proper catchup right now, don't needs to figure out what the caps for CPs should be for now, it's takes care of all of this because people, like me, will have a place to PvP where CPs don't matter. No need for people, like me, to cry about them anymore, because we have a place to avoid them. CPs will no longer be an issue. Doing this hurts NO ONE, and makes the game more enjoyable for non-cp grinders.
Like I've said a few times, this is too easy of a fix to not do0 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm just waiting for February to roll around. About that time the 3600 cp grinders should start popping up with the people who consistently play this game normally being at 1000. That should be interesting. I just feel bad for anyone who joins at the point. No chance of being competitive.
Say hello to the cash shop. What you describe is symptomatic of a company planning for a game that has no future.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.
So you make no effort to maximize your build. You only want to PVP, is that correct? Did you ever think there was more to it than just CP?
I'm not saying CP isn't an issue. It very much is, in both PVE and PVP. What I am saying is that even without CP players that choose to maximize their builds will have a great advantage. They will be able to do things like deal 25% more damage. That number sound familiar?
You will not get "fair fights" in Cyrodiil, CP or not. PVP in ESO is linked to a vertical progression system. Even without CP that is the fact of the matter. Those players who work to climb that ladder are rewarded for it with stat advantages.
I get that builds matter, no on is arguing that. I get that people are better than other skill wise, I get that. But CPs eliminate all need for skill in this game. And that's fine the game has a continuous progression, I'm not saying remove that. It's cool to play a game where you never stop progressing. I'm not saying stop any of that. I'm just saying convert campaigns that are empty into non-cp campaigns. Everyone in them still gain xp and CPs, but while ur in a non-cp campaign your CPs aren't slotted. No one has to change their builds that are only made viable with CPs, because you don't have to play in non-cp campaigns. This will make CPs a non issue. They won't need to figure out how to make a proper catchup right now, don't needs to figure out what the caps for CPs should be for now, it's takes care of all of this because people, like me, will have a place to PvP where CPs don't matter. No need for people, like me, to cry about them anymore, because we have a place to avoid them. CPs will no longer be an issue. Doing this hurts NO ONE, and makes the game more enjoyable for non-cp grinders.
Like I've said a few times, this is too easy of a fix to not do
It won't fix anything long term, players like yourself will be back to complain about other players who are better geared with better builds. You want to ignore all other aspects of the game's character progression, and blame your woes on CP. You simply cannot neglect your own character progression and expect skill to carry you through. Frankly you'll never be on the level of players who work to optimize their setups. You have to take a backseat to them or play the game in boarder strokes than just PVPing in Cyrodiil.0 -
Mr_Bubbely✭✭Nah. there are already about 4 whole campaigns that are empty or dominated by 1 faction, I don't like the idea of champion point excluded campaigns. Youre just watering everything down at that point.Edited by Mr_Bubbely on August 9, 2015 8:50PMGuildmaster of The Royal Imperial Legion0 -
Robbmrp✭✭✭✭✭
✭The lifeblood of a pvp game are those people who just like to pvp... PERIOD.
It's people who want an advantage and are willing to have monstrous imbalances (that they are on the right side of) that end up destroying a game. They drive away any new player who is not willing to be prey indefinitely.
Sorry but Zenimax would be foolish to cater to people who grind hours upon hours for an advantage in pvp. Catering to casuals and those who just love pvp for pvp's sake is a better alternative that will not alienate potential new customers.
Well said, I could not agree more.NA Server - Kildair0 -
Robbmrp✭✭✭✭✭
✭DragonxTortoise wrote: »Spend less time on the forums and more time exping. ++ CPs
Said the person with no job living in moms basement....NA Server - Kildair0 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeZOS_RichLambert wrote: »/lurk
One way to make everyone "equal" as far as CP goes for PVP, would be to make Champion Points only apply in PVE.....
No catch up mechanic needed.....
"drops mic"
"walks off"......
there would still be balance issues on leaderboards.https://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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https://dwemerautomaton.com - Discord, Telegram & Twitch Command Bot1 -
markt84✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.
So you make no effort to maximize your build. You only want to PVP, is that correct? Did you ever think there was more to it than just CP?
I'm not saying CP isn't an issue. It very much is, in both PVE and PVP. What I am saying is that even without CP players that choose to maximize their builds will have a great advantage. They will be able to do things like deal 25% more damage. That number sound familiar?
You will not get "fair fights" in Cyrodiil, CP or not. PVP in ESO is linked to a vertical progression system. Even without CP that is the fact of the matter. Those players who work to climb that ladder are rewarded for it with stat advantages.
I get that builds matter, no on is arguing that. I get that people are better than other skill wise, I get that. But CPs eliminate all need for skill in this game. And that's fine the game has a continuous progression, I'm not saying remove that. It's cool to play a game where you never stop progressing. I'm not saying stop any of that. I'm just saying convert campaigns that are empty into non-cp campaigns. Everyone in them still gain xp and CPs, but while ur in a non-cp campaign your CPs aren't slotted. No one has to change their builds that are only made viable with CPs, because you don't have to play in non-cp campaigns. This will make CPs a non issue. They won't need to figure out how to make a proper catchup right now, don't needs to figure out what the caps for CPs should be for now, it's takes care of all of this because people, like me, will have a place to PvP where CPs don't matter. No need for people, like me, to cry about them anymore, because we have a place to avoid them. CPs will no longer be an issue. Doing this hurts NO ONE, and makes the game more enjoyable for non-cp grinders.
Like I've said a few times, this is too easy of a fix to not do
It won't fix anything long term, players like yourself will be back to complain about other players who are better geared with better builds. You want to ignore all other aspects of the game's character progression, and blame your woes on CP. You simply cannot neglect your own character progression and expect skill to carry you through. Frankly you'll never be on the level of players who work to optimize their setups. You have to take a backseat to them or play the game in boarder strokes than just PVPing in Cyrodiil.
What I should grind for hours to get 1000 CPs to "optimize" my character, then go PvP and call it skill? I do work to optimize my character, I just refuse to grind to do it. People like you wan to hide behind CPs and call it skill0 -
markt84✭✭✭Mr_Bubbely wrote: »Nah. there are already about 4 whole campaigns that are empty or dominated by 1 faction, I don't line the idea of champion point excluded campaigns. Youre just watering everything down at that point.
So what does it hurt to convert those to something else to see if they get filled up and active?1 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭biggest problem are not cp but the situation that newbies are on the same playground as veterans. ZOS must finally sort campaigns according to CP brakets for example. if you want to play with yours high CP friends you must risk harder campaign, but you have possibility go to weak CP campaign. Imperial city is near and i cant imagine how weaker players can get their tv stones and bring them to safety bank. its just crazyEdited by VincentBlanquin on August 9, 2015 9:29PMIrwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
Romo✭✭✭✭To people against the idea of non-CP campaigns-- why do you care? You'd have 4 or 5 other CP campaigns to choose from where you can play with everyone else who wants CP campaigns.
They are afraid people will vote with their feet.
And ZOS might wake-up that the CP system is broken badly.
But they shouldn't worry. All the people voting with their feet and rolling alts to stay in 10-49 PVP and avoid PVP with VR14 etc. hasn't alerted ZOS to that problem either.Edited by Romo on August 9, 2015 10:54PM1 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Im all for non-CP campaign. Maybe this will stop those stupid myths and rumors spreading out that CP turn players into some kind of demigod. One day player is 0, suddenly he wakes up he is given 300 CP and he is a demigod.
People ignore fact that someone has to work consistently to gain CP and he earns them one by one.
Not to mention it has been proven with numbers that the results of CP investment are diminishing past the point of 300 or something? Which is very small amount of CP. Anyone can reach that, the point is some people dont want to, yet they complain about those who decided to invest their own time in earning CP.
You don't get it.
Grind all the CPs you want, and play on CP campaigns. No one's stopping you.
However, there are people who don't need to grind CPs, and would like to play in a non-CP campaign. It doesn't hurt you at all; so it's odd to see your knee-jerk reaction.
Im all for non-CP campaign.
I think you missed that part of my post. Its at the very beginning of it.
But im all for it, because maybe if people will finally get their no-CP camp, they will realise that the CP was no problem.
Right now if they get wiped out in PVP they either complain "nerf x,y,z" and when everything fails they get to generic "CP are bad" complaint.
In no-CP campaign there wont be "CP killed me" excuse anymore. That will make me happy.
Yes for NO-CP campaign so people ralise that CP is not a problem.
I think CPs are a problem, but your post above is reasonable. I do agree with you it would be good to not see excuses that "CP killed me" when it was more that the player didn't take appropriate defensive measures. That said, it would be laughable if someone with 300+ CPs claimed he didn't have an advantage over someone with 100.
Anyway, Zeni has so much to fix-- I'd rather them fix all the bugs and exploits first, then tackle the no-CP campaigns.
My issue will non-CP Vet campaigns is that Max/Min setups will become the new "their stats beat me" target. There is a statistical advantage in 300 vs 100 CP, but there is also one with a Max/Min player with 250+ skill points, playing the best race, with the best gear, using the best provisions vs the average player.
Why would the "their stats beats me" mentality dissipate with the introduction Non-CP Vet campaigns when there are still players with a heavy stat advantage over others?
Who says anything like that now? Their "stats beat me". No one is saying a non-cp campaign will make everyone equal, that everyone will be the same class, that no one will level up, and put your non-cp armor on before you come in. Will people ALWAYS have and advantage be it gear, builds, skill, whatever? Yes, but that will only be marginal, nothing skill can't overcome. CPs on the other hand not so much. The boost isn't maginal at all, the boost is 25% on top of the "stats". Everyone knows there is a huge difference in 0 CPs and 300+ champion points. You guys that want to grind CPs all day so you can PvP at night, go ahead no one is trying to stop you. Just saying people like me want to play in a non cp-campaign.
Ok I'll provide examples:Come on dude. How crappy of a player must you be to get a 25% damage boost while taking 25% less damage while 25% more health and resources to pull from to not win most fights? Your stock pile of CPs isn't skill, it's a buff to hide behindAnd I think that your argument places way more emphasis on "skill" than there really is. The game is simple, really. The skill is just doing the right thing at the right time, which most people already do. When, due to CP, I have 20% more physical and spell resistance than you, and 20% more spell and weapon damage than you, and 20% higher stamina, magica and health pools, my skill didn't beat you, my CP did.
Both of those from this same thread and are summed up as stating "Their Stats beat me".
The stats difference from a max/min set up is not near as marginal as you assume. Take the time to figure up how much more damage a max/min player can deal as compare to the average player in a mix of Fine and Superior gear. It's much closer to 25% than you are obviously aware. For instance 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based ability.
Ahahaha what? You think 1000 CPs gives you a 3% boost in damage? Geez that's why we need a non-cp campaign, for people like you that get on here and just pretend that CPs don't make a difference. I'm a vet 4 my buddy was a level 14, a LEVEL 14, and with his stam, magic, and health boosts, he did more damage than me. So yeah there is already a system in place to make up for armor and things like that. There is NO boost to make up for cps. But feel free to continue to spew BS on this subject
Did I say 1000 CP or did I say 1000 more Stamina is approximately a 3% damage increase for Stamina based "ability" [abilities]? Clearly I said the later.
Also please show at which point I personally said CP doesn't make a difference. I have said that CP pads skill, but doesn't replace, never that it doesn't make a difference.
Under 50/VR1 a player is scaled up to a VR12 in moderate gear. After the IC update everyone under VR14, including VR1-VR13 will be scaled to that point, again with moderate gear. They are not scaled to max level and moderate gear is by no means maxed out. That is referred to as 'battle leveling' and of course it does not make up for large amounts of CP. I am not saying it does. However CP is ultimately a stat increase, and it is not the only way to gain increased stats.
In a hypothetical vet campaign without CP there will still be players with more stats than the average player. Those are players who are max level and choose to spend the effort to max/min their setups. Battle leveling again like with CP will not make up for that difference, and the difference is enough will be a deciding factor.
You want to play in a PVP campaign without having to grind anything. Well a non-CP vet campaign will not give that to. At it's core ESO is an RPG will vertical progression. It will by it's very nature reward those who to spend time grinding, unless PVP is separated in it's entirety from the rest of the game and reworked to a system with linear progression.
Will people always get upset about something they think didn't go their way and should of? Of course. But CPs are a HUGE problem in PvP, and they only people that don't want to admit that are the people that "earned" them. And I'm sorry dude, I'm not doing something that sucks to get more "power" in PvP. I don't play games to do tedious and boring things...aka grinding. I play to enjoy myself. And the grinders have a place to go PvP, and people like me want our place to go PvP. The only reason people are against this idea is because they KNOW it will be the preferred way to PvP for the masses, and they didn't grind for so many hours to fight against other grinders.....because they don't want a fair fight. And they will actually need skill to win those fights, and they didn't grind all those hours to need skill to win, just CPs.
So you make no effort to maximize your build. You only want to PVP, is that correct? Did you ever think there was more to it than just CP?
I'm not saying CP isn't an issue. It very much is, in both PVE and PVP. What I am saying is that even without CP players that choose to maximize their builds will have a great advantage. They will be able to do things like deal 25% more damage. That number sound familiar?
You will not get "fair fights" in Cyrodiil, CP or not. PVP in ESO is linked to a vertical progression system. Even without CP that is the fact of the matter. Those players who work to climb that ladder are rewarded for it with stat advantages.
I get that builds matter, no on is arguing that. I get that people are better than other skill wise, I get that. But CPs eliminate all need for skill in this game. And that's fine the game has a continuous progression, I'm not saying remove that. It's cool to play a game where you never stop progressing. I'm not saying stop any of that. I'm just saying convert campaigns that are empty into non-cp campaigns. Everyone in them still gain xp and CPs, but while ur in a non-cp campaign your CPs aren't slotted. No one has to change their builds that are only made viable with CPs, because you don't have to play in non-cp campaigns. This will make CPs a non issue. They won't need to figure out how to make a proper catchup right now, don't needs to figure out what the caps for CPs should be for now, it's takes care of all of this because people, like me, will have a place to PvP where CPs don't matter. No need for people, like me, to cry about them anymore, because we have a place to avoid them. CPs will no longer be an issue. Doing this hurts NO ONE, and makes the game more enjoyable for non-cp grinders.
Like I've said a few times, this is too easy of a fix to not do
It won't fix anything long term, players like yourself will be back to complain about other players who are better geared with better builds. You want to ignore all other aspects of the game's character progression, and blame your woes on CP. You simply cannot neglect your own character progression and expect skill to carry you through. Frankly you'll never be on the level of players who work to optimize their setups. You have to take a backseat to them or play the game in boarder strokes than just PVPing in Cyrodiil.
What I should grind for hours to get 1000 CPs to "optimize" my character, then go PvP and call it skill? I do work to optimize my character, I just refuse to grind to do it. People like you wan to hide behind CPs and call it skill
CP is not the only way to optimize your character. Gear, Abilities, Skill Points, Provisions and even Race are all part of it as well. A player has to branch out and play other parts of the game even if they just want to excel at PVP. This is an RPG, it rewards time spent on character progression. Even if CP was not in the game that would still be true.
By "grind" do you mean refuse to play anything but PVP?PvP is where this game shines IMO. If you only got better gear and a lot more xp, there would be no reason to play the main story at all. I only started playing the story because I finally hit vet1, and my dude is way too soft now my buff is gone
Do you remember saying this? You can call me unskilled all you like, I don't care. It's also not going to change the that you refuse to actually spend time developing your character and want to blame the failings of that on CP. You went in to Cyrodiil at level 10 and didn't leave to do anything else, you're suffering the consequences of that choice, and CP didn't do that to you. You did that to yourself.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Maybe because it will be the only active campaign?
Assuming a player could not perform well in PVP at any capacity without CP, which I find unlikely. A hypothetical non-CP vet campaign existed and was the only campaign with much activity. I'd find it more plausible that those players simply wouldn't play PVP.0