Joy_Division wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

What's wrong with the knock back? The exploiter passive in champion system makes the new cast even stronger you know?

It makes the ability an execute. if you manage to kill your target in two (rather 1.5 jabs), the knockback is actually quite useful. if you don't, you basically gave the enemy CC immunity without even draining stamina from him. on top of it, the form of CC has much less kill potential on a full-heath (or shielded) + no stamina enemy. compare that to fear or even kills like the shield charge.

This is less of a problem for some stamina builds (those using the spear will prbably still hate the effect), especially because the damage is still high and otften the execute threshold is often met, but extremely annoying when playing magicka: hit an enemy with sweeps that had no cc immunity before (just for damage, not for making the kill)? Forget about eclipse, toppling, shards, etc for the next 5 seconds and better prepare to panic self-heal while your enemy uses his CC immunity

ps: how does the exploiter help here? i don't see how knockback == off-balance

Knock back counts as a stun which works as off balanced, just something I've worked out in dsa, anything that gets stunned, disoriented, interrupted works with exploiter

As someone who does not have 75 points in the Ritual Tree and will not have that many in the foreseeable future, I would prefer that the skill is not "balanced" so that highly specialized DPS builds with copious amounts of champion points can enjoy a 10% DPS increase at the expense of the very noticeable disadvantages that come with the knock-back.

How many points do you have in that thaumaturge?

34.

@Joy_Division how many total? cause most of your CP should be in thaumaturge as magic damage is your main damage source, just saying

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. I've seen a lot of opinions on jabs and I play both PvE and PvP frequently with my Templar and I can say that I honestly think jabs are fine they way they are. Everyone who was complaining that it's overpowered or hits to hard has obviously not tried strafing your opponent, as you can easily avoid the last few hits.

2. I agree to an extent. It is a little sluggish, but I have no issues closing the gap between myself and my opponent and going into my "rotation." The only real bug is when you get stuck in the animation when the server is lagging.

3. Spear Shards is already an incredible AoE DPS. As mentioned before, it's not a weapon skill ability and requires no set weapon to use. It comes with a DoT and CC Stun (depending on the morph), and it also has the ability to proc the Burning Light passive... as well as an extremely useful synergy. You also have the ability to range AoE DPS with this ability without having to get in close as you would with say, impulse, steel tornado, or solar barrage. I would say this ability is fine the way it is.

4. I wouldn't say make it instant cast. This ability is extremely powerful as it is... maybe lessen the cast time and not have it have such a high arc? Dark Flare comes with so many benefits that is not provided with Crystal Frags... you get minor sorcery, empower, and health debuff... crystal frags does not provide that only on the insta proc does it give the empower. Those who don't use it in PvP because it is unusable... that's more of an L2P issue and not ability issue. The cast time is comparable to Snipe which is also interruptible. I use it in PvP and have rare issues of people interrupting me... it comes down to timing and situational awareness. Not an ability that was meant to be spammed in PvP (same with frags, as you can't get an insta proc off the hard cast). In PvE, it is actually a very hard hitting spammable ability... even with the cast time. I would say Jabs is more DPS, but this ability comes in a very close second.

5. I don't use this ability to give any useful feedback.

Healing Ritual should have cast time of 1.5 sec and Ritual Of Rebirth should have cast time of 1 sec. Don't remove this spell, it's one of the best and most powerful heals. And it's radius even bigger than Healing Spring's. If somebody don't know how to use it then it's L2P issue.

Also if Lingering Ritual could get additional healing over time effect (not direct healing like it has now) after cast, then it might become more appealing for people.

Ah, and don't increase it's cost. Or at least give templars something for resource managment first. Rune Focus is a joke. Siphoning Attacks, Dark Exchange and Battle Roar are good examples.

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Rune focus is far from a joke.

how do you generally use it? i'm not sarky...just being a noob!!

When I slot it I use Channeled Focus morph so that I get healed, a big buff to armor+spell resistance, and a nice magicka return. Can really help when doing all of the channeling with other class spells.

asteldian wrote: »

Radiant Aura - anyone remember this morph even exists? Given that Templar is the only class without a reliable way to gain stamina on demand (without corpses) perhaps change it so activating it returns 20% of your stamina over 10s instead of the worthless regen? Would be helpful for tanks and dps alike - NB has siphon, DK has earthen heart, sorc has Dark Deal, Templqr would have this. Sorc and Temp would still be worse off in the stamina gain stakes overall, but at least we would have something.

I thought it was pretty sad when they destroyed this skill.

danno8 wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

Dark Flare is "extremely powerful".. since when? It's always been a very weak version of Crystal Shard. It does far less damage, a little over half the damage of a Crystal Fragment proc, it has a long cast time, it has no stun and it has a very slow speed and arc anyone can block or dodge.

This is why almost no one ever uses Dark Flare, it is just a really bad ability, it is far weaker than Crystal Shard in every possible way.

It is a high damage skill with great benefits, it's just that it is overshadowed by the cast time/travel time.

The only time I can land this skill in PvP is if I am hidden or my opponent doesn't otherwise see me. If they see me they have more than enough time to throw up a reflect, interrupt me or just block.

In fact the cast time is so long that I sometimes even have time to cancel my cast after I see them throw up their reflect, lol. If not I definitely have enough time to throw up my own reflect after it leaves my hand.

It's just.......so...........slow.

That's why it needs a guaranteed hit. Make it undodgeable.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

What's wrong with the knock back? The exploiter passive in champion system makes the new cast even stronger you know?

It makes the ability an execute. if you manage to kill your target in two (rather 1.5 jabs), the knockback is actually quite useful. if you don't, you basically gave the enemy CC immunity without even draining stamina from him. on top of it, the form of CC has much less kill potential on a full-heath (or shielded) + no stamina enemy. compare that to fear or even kills like the shield charge.

This is less of a problem for some stamina builds (those using the spear will prbably still hate the effect), especially because the damage is still high and otften the execute threshold is often met, but extremely annoying when playing magicka: hit an enemy with sweeps that had no cc immunity before (just for damage, not for making the kill)? Forget about eclipse, toppling, shards, etc for the next 5 seconds and better prepare to panic self-heal while your enemy uses his CC immunity

ps: how does the exploiter help here? i don't see how knockback == off-balance

Knock back counts as a stun which works as off balanced, just something I've worked out in dsa, anything that gets stunned, disoriented, interrupted works with exploiter

As someone who does not have 75 points in the Ritual Tree and will not have that many in the foreseeable future, I would prefer that the skill is not "balanced" so that highly specialized DPS builds with copious amounts of champion points can enjoy a 10% DPS increase at the expense of the very noticeable disadvantages that come with the knock-back.

How many points do you have in that thaumaturge?

34.

@Joy_Division how many total? cause most of your CP should be in thaumaturge as magic damage is your main damage source, just saying

Not enough, which is the problem. I should not have to devote 75 CPs into one specific tree just to make an undesirable feature on skill work to my advantage. This goes beyond that fact that people expect me to heal rather than DPS so I find myself having to split points. Even if I did have the 75 CPs, I still would prefer the knock-back be removed because the 10% extra damage is no worth granting my PvP opponent CC immunity.

I am aware that you have had very good success in DSA making use of this specific combination of CP trait and the biting jabs ability which is totally legitimate and actually a good example of theorycrafting. If you and others still want to keep this feature, the knock-back isn't necessary. The jabs can set the target just "off balance," which now that I think about it, might be preferable to all parities involved. Jabs does inflict a status condition on an enemy (the original intent), does not hand the enemy CC immunity (what most templars want), does not take away to the 10% bonus (the specific condition you pointed out).

I really dislike the whole "knock-back" condition and am discouraged to see ZoS expand it (ruining the inferno destructive clench spell for example). CC should always be legitimate and handed out with care.

Zsymon wrote: »

asteldian wrote: »

I notice a lack of mention of 2 other skills:
Healing Ritual - still pretty worthless. Maybe change to a weak version of the ultimate (channelled heal that is interuptable?) Or change to something different entirely.

Radiant Aura - anyone remember this morph even exists? Given that Templar is the only class without a reliable way to gain stamina on demand (without corpses) perhaps change it so activating it returns 20% of your stamina over 10s instead of the worthless regen? Would be helpful for tanks and dps alike - NB has siphon, DK has earthen heart, sorc has Dark Deal, Templqr would have this. Sorc and Temp would still be worse off in the stamina gain stakes overall, but at least we would have something.

I'd think that healing Ritual is really strong now with the lowered damage, giving you more time to cast. I have seen people completely rely on this skill in PvP, because of its amazing healing/magicka ratio and massive self heal. I don't think they'd be happy with your suggestion. This skill is far better than Healing Springs now imo, at least in PvP.

I was thinking more from a pve perspective. If the changes in PvP allow it to be useful then at least that's something - is has an actual use rather than being very niche. So if the consensus is it stays as is that is fine.

A change to Radiant Aura is something I am far more interested in.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

What's wrong with the knock back? The exploiter passive in champion system makes the new cast even stronger you know?

It makes the ability an execute. if you manage to kill your target in two (rather 1.5 jabs), the knockback is actually quite useful. if you don't, you basically gave the enemy CC immunity without even draining stamina from him. on top of it, the form of CC has much less kill potential on a full-heath (or shielded) + no stamina enemy. compare that to fear or even kills like the shield charge.

This is less of a problem for some stamina builds (those using the spear will prbably still hate the effect), especially because the damage is still high and otften the execute threshold is often met, but extremely annoying when playing magicka: hit an enemy with sweeps that had no cc immunity before (just for damage, not for making the kill)? Forget about eclipse, toppling, shards, etc for the next 5 seconds and better prepare to panic self-heal while your enemy uses his CC immunity

ps: how does the exploiter help here? i don't see how knockback == off-balance

Knock back counts as a stun which works as off balanced, just something I've worked out in dsa, anything that gets stunned, disoriented, interrupted works with exploiter

As someone who does not have 75 points in the Ritual Tree and will not have that many in the foreseeable future, I would prefer that the skill is not "balanced" so that highly specialized DPS builds with copious amounts of champion points can enjoy a 10% DPS increase at the expense of the very noticeable disadvantages that come with the knock-back.

How many points do you have in that thaumaturge?

34.

@Joy_Division how many total? cause most of your CP should be in thaumaturge as magic damage is your main damage source, just saying

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

What's wrong with the knock back? The exploiter passive in champion system makes the new cast even stronger you know?

It makes the ability an execute. if you manage to kill your target in two (rather 1.5 jabs), the knockback is actually quite useful. if you don't, you basically gave the enemy CC immunity without even draining stamina from him. on top of it, the form of CC has much less kill potential on a full-heath (or shielded) + no stamina enemy. compare that to fear or even kills like the shield charge.

This is less of a problem for some stamina builds (those using the spear will prbably still hate the effect), especially because the damage is still high and otften the execute threshold is often met, but extremely annoying when playing magicka: hit an enemy with sweeps that had no cc immunity before (just for damage, not for making the kill)? Forget about eclipse, toppling, shards, etc for the next 5 seconds and better prepare to panic self-heal while your enemy uses his CC immunity

ps: how does the exploiter help here? i don't see how knockback == off-balance

Knock back counts as a stun which works as off balanced, just something I've worked out in dsa, anything that gets stunned, disoriented, interrupted works with exploiter

As someone who does not have 75 points in the Ritual Tree and will not have that many in the foreseeable future, I would prefer that the skill is not "balanced" so that highly specialized DPS builds with copious amounts of champion points can enjoy a 10% DPS increase at the expense of the very noticeable disadvantages that come with the knock-back.

How many points do you have in that thaumaturge?

34.

@Joy_Division how many total? cause most of your CP should be in thaumaturge as magic damage is your main damage source, just saying

Not enough, which is the problem. I should not have to devote 75 CPs into one specific tree just to make an undesirable feature on skill work to my advantage. This goes beyond that fact that people expect me to heal rather than DPS so I find myself having to split points. Even if I did have the 75 CPs, I still would prefer the knock-back be removed because the 10% extra damage is no worth granting my PvP opponent CC immunity.

I am aware that you have had very good success in DSA making use of this specific combination of CP trait and the biting jabs ability which is totally legitimate and actually a good example of theorycrafting. If you and others still want to keep this feature, the knock-back isn't necessary. The jabs can set the target just "off balance," which now that I think about it, might be preferable to all parities involved. Jabs does inflict a status condition on an enemy (the original intent), does not hand the enemy CC immunity (what most templars want), does not take away to the 10% bonus (the specific condition you pointed out).

I really dislike the whole "knock-back" condition and am discouraged to see ZoS expand it (ruining the inferno destructive clench spell for example). CC should always be legitimate and handed out with care.

My main point is that thaumaturge is magic damage and if you're (magicka and class skill based) templar most of your points will be in that tree, you'll get more damage having 1 elfborn 1 spell erosion and the rest into thaumaturge until maxed. And that goes for pvp and pve too, yes players have more spell resistance etc but the gains from spell resistance are too low to match the gains from thaumaturge.

The issue I see with puncturing sweep, a lot of people like it and a lot of people dislike it, it's going to be one of those things ZoS will tell you to deal with. It can come very much in handy at some points, I agree in PvP it can suck in some cases and ruin your burst, in others it can be extremely useful but in PvE it's great all around. I personally hate Puncturing Sweep in pvp because the heal is too weak to make up for the incoming damage and drops your block.

And still nothing from Zenimax.

BugCollector wrote: »

Let's see what they have in store for us with the patch notes

Nothing.

Damn so many changes for templars in this patch! /sarc

Kaliki wrote: »

PTS Patch Notes 2.1.1 wrote: »

Yes, this is really it for Templars.