Cinbri wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

You can use it pretty nice as a magica snipe followed by radiant for the kill..

Well, if you use it that way than much better if you use 2 Dark Flares(or DF followed but Reflective Light/Bane) and Radiant after, coz Empower doesn't increase damage of channeled skills (like RD), i.e. you will just waste first Dark Flare Empower buff in vain.

Following is about life because I was not able to test it on pts:
I once killed Abraxus as he was emp with 2 df and 1 radiant so 2 df would be pretty much overkill for every non nirn stacker (which will be finally fixed).
The reason I use radiant right after is because radiant hits the enemy while df is still traveling so he will be thinking oh just another radiant spamming guy... but then df hits him with 10-15k or even higher depending on his spellresistance and crit and the next tick of radiant will finish him off so there is pretty much no time (max 0.5 seconds) to react. If I wanted to do this with 2 df I woud have to be at max range and since df sometimes is bugged at max range I wont use it there

Rook_Master wrote: »

When I read posts from other people that main Templars it brings a little tear to my eye knowing that you feel my pain as well. You know what it's like to experience the continuing degradation of Blazing Shield into its current utter uselessness. You know what it's like having our Resto Staff synergies taken away. You know what it's like having Toppling Charge broken for over a YEAR.

@Rook_Master i know that feeling...
Before the removal of softcaps i just wanted Toppling Charge to work;
now I just don't know what to say :'(

Imho templar damaging abilities are kinda okay. They may be need some quality of life improvements for sure but it is not so crucial.
Defensive skills need most attention. Those heavy nerfs on blazing shield, radiant aura and blinding flashes were almost destroyed this class. And like it is not enough, we now have to deal with that new double nerf on blazing shiled and new block mechanism.
It can't be go on live like this.

we definitely need some love or at least some kind of compensation for having destroyed blazing shield

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

I really hope Zenimax listens to us. This thread is too popular to be left ignored.

You must not know ZOS very well to say that.

Look at the 16+ pages of player suggestions in the Templar thread on the Developers Discussion section.

Look at the 36+ pages of player suggestions in this thread in the Combat and Character mechanics section:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p1

Not only has ZOS refused to listen to much in the latter, they have actually locked the thread's new posts at July 17th, so that the thread won't appear on the front page of threads in that section.

They are putting their heads in the sand and pretending the class is fine, and have been doing it since 1.6 hit and everyone realized that their attempts to finally fix the class met with failure because they simply didn't listen to what their players were telling them.

Zos is like be happy you have 12 skillpoints more than the other classes

SeptimusDova wrote: »

^ LOL

I will spend them on crafting

Definitely better spent than on sun shield

SeptimusDova wrote: »

If we had better lighting graphics Sun shield might make a good torch substitute whilst looking for mats!

I always use the insects as torches with purifying light that works pretty well but sun shield would be even better since you can carry it with you

Hrrrrrmmmmm. Alright, look, I'd appreciate it, and I mean it honestly (anyone with an opinion of me in here knows I'm pretty straightforward) , if anyone maining a Templar here gives a sec to read this one sentence and ignores the rest of the post if you then don't want to see what I have to say: I know virtually none of the people in this thread agree with me really basically at all, but that's what the idea for that mega thread is all about, I want everyone else's thoughts, because I'm well aware many of you think I'm basically clueless (I'd disagree but, that's completely and 100 percent beside the point in any case).

From here I'm going to just post an exchange I had on reddit with a Templar. Anything else is going to either make it click or not from here . I'm hoping though that you're intrigued enough to read it.
____


asteldian 1 point 7 hours ago 

Np! I'd also like to add that I support the idea of Puncturing Sweep/Biting Jabs having a brief Concuss effect rather than the feeble CC it has, that way it keeps its little bit of utility without causing CC immunity which sucks in PvP and PvE (lost count how many times a DK has cursed us for hitting a mob prior to his chains - such as when a Lamia against the serpent gets too close to the group and gets clipped by a Jab)

permalinksaveparentreportgive goldreplied

[–]Attorneyatlawl_ESOESO Psijic Beta Founder, Community Ambassador[. S] 1 point 7 minutes ago 

Haha, that's a good little point I honestly can say as much as I theory this game out, never occurred to me even tho I'd heard people say "Uh... Crud I can't chain it, it's immune =(." basically in teamspeak before. I'll get your whole post copied in also in the morning, since i pretty much just came here on my phone as I was going to bed to see if you'd written back .

Again, thanks! That's the exact kind of thing other than just making a good feedback reference that I want to get in there: the stuff that just plain usually falls through the cracks and doesn't get much mention in ever, even though it's like... "wow. One of the points someone said was the cc wasn't good in pvp but had a decent pve use. But that bit changed my mind."

In case you're wondering, that someone is me, though I of course would have as outlined in the post have tossed it in just the same. It's not meant for me to toss my feedback in, much, ultimately, if it works out and thrives. I want, and I meant it, everyone else's stuff. Not because I don't think I have some good ideas too, but because everyone else usually does, and this kind of little bit can on a huge array of game topics be not only missed, but be the tipping point of where an idea starts to become the general opinion of everyone.

Hopefully, to anyone reading this, by now the point of why I made the thread is that I honestly want it to do well. Whatever anyone's read of my posts, if they have an opinion of me they know just from that I'm pretty direct, I don't beat around the bush very much.

I'm combing the forums a bunch to try and dig into things like this, but I'm just one guy among millions of us all that play eso as a hobby. I think a lot more good could come of just taking that step back, spending a bunch of time, and throwing everyone else's ideas into a nice organized group of posts so ZOS has a valuable, actually valuable, reference of the general ideas people are talking about and stuff that slipped through and wasn't really ever noticed.

GOOD NIGHT! Just realized I wrote for about 4 minutes straight there tapping away at my phone when I was trying to go to sleep, .

permalinksaveparentedit

@Attorneyatlawl As someone who has played a Templar basically non stop since the very first beta along side you, I would just like to step in and say that I agree that Templars need significant changes to most of the skills originally discussed in this thread.

I know we can both argue our side of things till the servers shut down, so I probably wont continue to monitor this thread, But I do want it to be known I agree changes are needed to Templar for the better. Personally I would remove half of the "bonus" effects from half the skills in the game (frags, wrecking, ambush, etc), but since that's not going to happen, buff Templars to be equal.

For quick bullet points...

• Dark Flare - Needs something pretty significant done to it. Faster Travel time and/or less obvious spell effect (so easy to see coming and reflect/dodge/block). Possibly instant casting, or other equally powerful bonus effect. Dark Flare does not hit harder than Fragments if you take into account its 20% bonus damage that it is almost exclusively used for in PvP.
• Puncturing Strikes - remove the healing debuff (battle spirit) from the ability to prevent doubling the nerf, also create a short duration movement speed slow (snare) instead of the current knockback.
• Blazing Shield - Remove battle spirit effect on its damage done to prevent double nerf effect.
• Toppling Charge - Fix the GCD issue. Regardless if you can block/light attack animation cancel the bug, its still a bug and needs to be fixed. The "Optimal" weaving is an opinion. If I charge someone to stun them, and they now have 3k HP left, I do not want to block, light attack, and then use an ability, I want to execute them IMMEDIATELY. Also, up the damage some, its pretty pathetic - far shorter stun and still less damage (in most situations) than the sword and shield charge.
• Blazing/Luminous Shards - Up the Travel time. Even if you want to combo it with other abilities, you could still accomplish that if you halved its travel time, it takes like 2.5 seconds, over twice the length of most skills even with cast times. (or at least feels that way)

I dont think any of these changes would make Templars even remotely OP - they would probably still be the worst class in the game overall. So that's saying a lot.

What's wrong with the knock back? The exploiter passive in champion system makes the new cast even stronger you know?

Nifty2g wrote: »

What's wrong with the knock back? The exploiter passive in champion system makes the new cast even stronger you know?

It makes the ability an execute. if you manage to kill your target in two (rather 1.5 jabs), the knockback is actually quite useful. if you don't, you basically gave the enemy CC immunity without even draining stamina from him. on top of it, the form of CC has much less kill potential on a full-heath (or shielded) + no stamina enemy. compare that to fear or even kills like the shield charge.

This is less of a problem for some stamina builds (those using the spear will prbably still hate the effect), especially because the damage is still high and otften the execute threshold is often met, but extremely annoying when playing magicka: hit an enemy with sweeps that had no cc immunity before (just for damage, not for making the kill)? Forget about eclipse, toppling, shards, etc for the next 5 seconds and better prepare to panic self-heal while your enemy uses his CC immunity

ps: how does the exploiter help here? i don't see how knockback == off-balance

as a templar main all i have to say that it will never be on par with any other class at any aspect of the game besides BoL spamming. Thats 1 spell that describes the class. To make the class more viable after the current nerfs, theres just a couple of things ZoS needs to do:

1) Reworked Puncturing Sweeps, the knockback does nothing and im happy to be knockedback by it in PvP. It simply pushes u forward out of any following jabs and gives u CC immunity to do whatever you want since templars have 0 useable roots.
2) Double Nerfing. Right. Not right. Radiant Glory(lol...?); Puncturing Sweeps are eating a double nerf. Same goes to blazing shield. You can say whatever you want, i read ur previous posts - Blazing/Sun Shield next patch will not be useable. You simply cannot use a spell for 3k damage shield with a maximum of 1k damage output in the current meta. It will *at best* block half of any moderate damaging spell/attack. Dead. Period.

DF is ok, travel time makes it unique for caster templars.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

What's wrong with the knock back? The exploiter passive in champion system makes the new cast even stronger you know?

It makes the ability an execute. if you manage to kill your target in two (rather 1.5 jabs), the knockback is actually quite useful. if you don't, you basically gave the enemy CC immunity without even draining stamina from him. on top of it, the form of CC has much less kill potential on a full-heath (or shielded) + no stamina enemy. compare that to fear or even kills like the shield charge.

This is less of a problem for some stamina builds (those using the spear will prbably still hate the effect), especially because the damage is still high and otften the execute threshold is often met, but extremely annoying when playing magicka: hit an enemy with sweeps that had no cc immunity before (just for damage, not for making the kill)? Forget about eclipse, toppling, shards, etc for the next 5 seconds and better prepare to panic self-heal while your enemy uses his CC immunity

ps: how does the exploiter help here? i don't see how knockback == off-balance

Knock back counts as a stun which works as off balanced, just something I've worked out in dsa, anything that gets stunned, disoriented, interrupted works with exploiter

As someone who does not have 75 points in the Ritual Tree and will not have that many in the foreseeable future, I would prefer that the skill is not "balanced" so that highly specialized DPS builds with copious amounts of champion points can enjoy a 10% DPS increase at the expense of the very noticeable disadvantages that come with the knock-back.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

What's wrong with the knock back? The exploiter passive in champion system makes the new cast even stronger you know?

It makes the ability an execute. if you manage to kill your target in two (rather 1.5 jabs), the knockback is actually quite useful. if you don't, you basically gave the enemy CC immunity without even draining stamina from him. on top of it, the form of CC has much less kill potential on a full-heath (or shielded) + no stamina enemy. compare that to fear or even kills like the shield charge.

This is less of a problem for some stamina builds (those using the spear will prbably still hate the effect), especially because the damage is still high and otften the execute threshold is often met, but extremely annoying when playing magicka: hit an enemy with sweeps that had no cc immunity before (just for damage, not for making the kill)? Forget about eclipse, toppling, shards, etc for the next 5 seconds and better prepare to panic self-heal while your enemy uses his CC immunity

ps: how does the exploiter help here? i don't see how knockback == off-balance

Knock back counts as a stun which works as off balanced, just something I've worked out in dsa, anything that gets stunned, disoriented, interrupted works with exploiter

As someone who does not have 75 points in the Ritual Tree and will not have that many in the foreseeable future, I would prefer that the skill is not "balanced" so that highly specialized DPS builds with copious amounts of champion points can enjoy a 10% DPS increase at the expense of the very noticeable disadvantages that come with the knock-back.

How many points do you have in that thaumaturge?

34.

Erlex wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl As someone who has played a Templar basically non stop since the very first beta along side you, I would just like to step in and say that I agree that Templars need significant changes to most of the skills originally discussed in this thread.

I know we can both argue our side of things till the servers shut down, so I probably wont continue to monitor this thread, But I do want it to be known I agree changes are needed to Templar for the better. Personally I would remove half of the "bonus" effects from half the skills in the game (frags, wrecking, ambush, etc), but since that's not going to happen, buff Templars to be equal.

For quick bullet points...

• Dark Flare - Needs something pretty significant done to it. Faster Travel time and/or less obvious spell effect (so easy to see coming and reflect/dodge/block). Possibly instant casting, or other equally powerful bonus effect. Dark Flare does not hit harder than Fragments if you take into account its 20% bonus damage that it is almost exclusively used for in PvP.
• Puncturing Strikes - remove the healing debuff (battle spirit) from the ability to prevent doubling the nerf, also create a short duration movement speed slow (snare) instead of the current knockback.
• Blazing Shield - Remove battle spirit effect on its damage done to prevent double nerf effect.
• Toppling Charge - Fix the GCD issue. Regardless if you can block/light attack animation cancel the bug, its still a bug and needs to be fixed. The "Optimal" weaving is an opinion. If I charge someone to stun them, and they now have 3k HP left, I do not want to block, light attack, and then use an ability, I want to execute them IMMEDIATELY. Also, up the damage some, its pretty pathetic - far shorter stun and still less damage (in most situations) than the sword and shield charge.
• Blazing/Luminous Shards - Up the Travel time. Even if you want to combo it with other abilities, you could still accomplish that if you halved its travel time, it takes like 2.5 seconds, over twice the length of most skills even with cast times. (or at least feels that way)

I dont think any of these changes would make Templars even remotely OP - they would probably still be the worst class in the game overall. So that's saying a lot.

I second every word!!!