This post made me absolutely sad to see. I myself and my boyfriend has been playing templars since release and roughly 70% of /played is in cyrodiil and i just feelt is this the biggest amount of attention you think you can bring for the developers by damn! We have bigger issues than more damage on the blazing spears!

Warning this is a long post but i have been lurking the forums ever since PTS opened im scared that templars are not getting any increase of either usage or popularity or effectiveness because there is so many overlooked things and its not damage its fundamental problems which i will try to enlighten with this "rant".

@ZOS_Racheal PLEASE READ

So as i said combined knowledge of everything from 18 man groups into solo area of the templar, stamina and magicka DPS tank me and my boyfriend have tried it all with almost every possible gear.

Here is my main concerns with the templar class:

1. The other classes have abilities that is useful to some extent!
2. Templars are immobile and their abilities should reflect that place style just as sorcs are mobile and have abilities that reflect that
3. Outdated abilities/passives.
4. Being effective is boring!

So lets start with number 1 : I recently rolled a dragon knight and i got so freaking surprised on the fact that all the abilities are to some extent useful for different playstyle.
Molten armaments is usable for everything from 2h to resto into destro.
Fossilize is good from a healers perspective to remove pressure on you but also good to go offensive.

Here is where the other classes shiny and templars do not. and this is not a whole overhaul of everything being perfect with other classes just a problem that exists with the templar class and its ability to be a fun class.

I had a talk with my good friend yamadas about this, a long time player of the DK class which i have been playing together with for about 6 month. The fun thing was he rolled templar at this point and he was amazed on how little skill are being useful in the templar tree. yet a Dragonknight is able to fulfill a good role as a supporter by being tanky and hard to pin down with all their skills yet get 30% increase to healer when giving everyone a shield?! I MEAN WTH?! i would kill for a skill like that as a TEMPLAR?!

Onward to Sorcerer they have streak as escape and yet is useful in offensive purposes.

If we are to put this up against templars we have blazing spear which is even hard to hit against good players when they are melee specced and try to focus you because of the long delay from usage until impact which makes this spell something that only works against people who "doesnt" see and renders templars version of fossilize a spell that is only good when you have inexperienced people against you. And this goes on and on with the templar skills.

When i first clicked the templar when i made my char back in april last year, i foresaw a tanky support healer with lower damage but high variety of tools. THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

Onward to other abilities such as our "snare" sunfire is having next to no impact in pvp on live or pts. getting 10% crit is "nice" but to slow people down no this is not doing its job.

Aurora javelin is getting a increase in 10% dmg. on the average magicka templar this will on live give them 3000 damage(instead of 2800) on tooltip which will be 1500 in next patch(because of damage reduction) plus the reduction of spell resist and about 40% more damage on max range. Is this an ability to do damage with? no! is it a CC tool? yes? is it stopping people? no?!

The way to render this 1200 damage spell useless is either to block, dodgeroll, break free before you even land. or just dont do anything and be happy you are further away from the templar which is not really dangerous on range unless you went full spell damage and is using destruction staff damage. i have problems seeing any magicka dpser putting this on the bar and yet you choose on pts to increase damage with a amount that would have zero to little effect on a spell that has zero to little effect as it is.

Toppling charge is a very good ability but what do you have in your arsenal as a templar once inside and ontop of a target? another ability that gives them CC immunity. Im talking of course about jabs.

an ability that is 0,5 seconds of CC to grant you 5 seconds of cc immunity. i mean common even as a templar im freaking happy in a good fight to get a free immovable buff from taking the damage from this ability, unless its a stamina templar of course which i believe in the next patch will still be viable but not so much because of templars skills but just because stamina is still viable.

Onward to blazing shield the biggest joke of any class line.

Currently outdated beyond anything else in this game. Spending roughly 2.5-3k magicka on getting 4k worth of shielding and then you will do damage of 54% of the value of the shield when it breaks. The mathematical calculation goes like this:

And im going to be fair with giving us 25000 health, which is not the case for most templars but ok.

25000 * 0,16 = 4000

4000 * 0,54 = 2160

2160 * 0,5(damage reduction on pts) = 1080

1080 * 0,7(roughly 30% decrease because of spell resist) = 756 damage.

WHY WOULD ANYONE USE THIS?! on live currently where i have been playing a tank/support/healer most of all i dont even use this. why? because block is keeping me alive in live currently and blazing shield is not. then why even have the skill? If i could remove this ability from my skill line and get anything else i would trade it right of the bat.

Hence dont have blazing shield to do damage but yet again the ability is still in templars aresenal getting morph towards the fact that its a damage spell. the alignment of what the skill does and what its suppose to do is just not correct.

So what is good with templars? well they have good single target heals. The way im most effective in this game is currently that playstyle. Being a healer of single target(breath of life) spamming and being tanky. now block is getting the shaft which i believe is good because perma of anything is toxic in a game. but the expensive trade-offs for it totally wrecks the templar because it was the only thing we had because our skills are so freaking misaligned towards our roles that i have no doubt in my mind that there is a person at zenimax trying to say this exact qoute on balance meetings at their headquarters.

"well the templars that wanna be healers or tanks are usually not very picky with the game and since they are necessary lets just talk about the classes of sorcerers and nightblades instead, how can we make them more flashy so we get more players into the game"

Hence the result is already showing. when moving between keeps in cyrodiil you dont have 5-10 templars lurking around attacking stragglers, its either sorcs or NB or usually both. There is one brave templar here and there and usually bound to group-play but not any more than that.

So why am i as a templar feeling unfair about the next patch? well because block was my only way to be a good support healer. if this was the only way of fulfilling the role of helping my group and being effective and no abilities would be doing the job of keeping my alive at the same time as being a healer then what am i as a suppose to do when my class abilities fail? well i have worked around this by going full nirn, drinks, heavy armor, block cost reduction in CP and on jewelry and vampire with mist form. if you remove block from the equation all i have is full damage from attacks, mist form and decent spell resistance and no freaking abilities that work out except for my abilities which is there to do the job but just doesnt(BLAZING SHIELD). The way of being a healer wearing 7 pieces of light armor with 2 resto staff and popping mutagen on and grand healing to be supportive is none existing because any good nightblade would simply pop you or having a sorcs together with a charging(insert stamina class) putting pressure on you would be either totally removing you ability to support or if they know what they are doing kill you within 5 seconds(5,1 seconds if you get a blazing shield of) that support world does not exist, unless you are playing the game as 48 people running together spamming aoe.

If we start looking at passives, here is another example of templar being outdated.

In the aedric spear line there is a passive which says this: "when an aedric spear ability is equipped you can block 15% more damage from melee attack" I mean first of all block is getting more or less removed next patch and still do you think templars will say hey what a nice passive if i have toppling charge on my bar i will be able to block 15% more damage from random light attacks when im blocking 5% of the time in pvp? you dont block because someone is attacking you with a light attack and the last time i saw a heavy attack in pvp? i dont know maybe 4 months ago. HENCE outdated and useless passive!

As you can tell there is problems with the templar class but its not the damage on blazing spears nor having dark flare travel speed at the same as crystal shards. there is fundamental problems with misalignment and usage of skills to fulfill your role.

Dont bring back perma block but give templars the tools to be tanky without it! or employ me at your company and we can start getting things straight in the game in terms of role fulfilling, usefulness and fun gameplay.

My feelings on templar is that they need to buff several of the skills, but radiant destruction/oppression still is too strong (jab is a little strong as well).

I might weaken jabs by like 5-10% at first and see how that does, but radiant dest/opp needs a heavy nerf hammer. Even my templar who has horrible high magicka and spell damage can do a lot of damage with this skill with very little effort/skill involved in its use. I think I'd make it about 25% weaker and 50% more expensive.

BUT, some of the other templar powers should get buffs at the same time to make them useful. The other two dawn's wrath abilities need to look as appealing offensively as radiant opp/dest IMO.

Blazing Shield and its morph are terrible. Probably worst shield in the game. Definitely needs to last 2-3 times longer than it does. (I also don't care much for the glow effect).

I also think the channel, Healing Ritual and its morphs, need to be able to hit more than 6 targets. For a heal that's a channel, is interruptible, and doesn't give the heal until the end of the channel (meaning for two seconds no target gets any heal) it's not that great. In fact, overall I think you guys hit the templar heals a little hard nerf wise and resto skills often are better (my combat prayer hits as hard as breath and hits six targets not one with that big heal). But instead of buffing breath, maybe making Ritual more useful will provide other healing options. Another option might be to let it give healing the whole time it's channeled if you don't want to raise the cap, like a reverse radiant destruction to those 1-6 people. Either option would make it worth using in some situations.

xaraan wrote: »

My feelings on templar is that they need to buff several of the skills, but radiant destruction/oppression still is too strong (jab is a little strong as well).

I might weaken jabs by like 5-10% at first and see how that does, but radiant dest/opp needs a heavy nerf hammer. Even my templar who has horrible high magicka and spell damage can do a lot of damage with this skill with very little effort/skill involved in its use. I think I'd make it about 25% weaker and 50% more expensive.

Just stop. Go ahead and try to Jesus Beam me or anyone who is not a nub when you aren't protected by a zerg and you'll see how far you get with little effort or skill.

Summary: some smallish tweaks could really rev up some under-performing skills and make for some interesting battles.

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PBpsy wrote: »

After reading this thread, seeing how good most Templar behave in the IC and even playing my templar a bit I think all you templar mains should be ashamed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEzQV75LDL0
PS
Damn this thread is so bad I have to even agree with @Attorneyatlawl for the first time ever.

Well-played my friend, well-played

ZOS_Racheal wrote: »

Greetings, everyone.

We understand that people are going to disagree from time to time, but please remember to keep your comments respectful at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others. Insults or other disruptive behavior do not help further discussion and can move a thread off topic quickly. We encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are constructively stated when doing so. Thank you!

Appreciate it, don't want to see the thread locked.

Anazasi wrote: »

I don't think eclipse should proc CC immunity and it should act the same as prox det. You should not be able to cleanse it or break from it. It does not snare it does not root it does not prevent you from casting.

I suggested this once and still think it's a good idea for the cost of ability, especially now that it's limited to one target per caster. Not being able to "Break Free"/no CC immunity would be enough, but no cleanse/purge would make it really really useful.

Anazasi wrote: »

Dark Flare should have the chance to proc insta cast same as crystal shards. It would also be nice to see some cost reduction in this line. Since all the stam abilities were reduced across the board.

I partly agree with @Attorneyatlawl here, it does so much *if it hits*. If it followed the target like Sun Fire, or if it hit as an AoE like Shards, it wouldn't need a chance to proc for an instant cast. I just file this one as situational for both PvE and PvP. Not really going to be a regular in the line up.

Keturah wrote: »

Onward to other abilities such as our "snare" sunfire is having next to no impact in pvp on live or pts. getting 10% crit is "nice" but to slow people down no this is not doing its job.

Yes, for some reason when I load out for Sun Fire the build also has Mage Light already so the Major Prophecy is wasted. Plus you can get Major Prophecy from a potion if you don't want to use Mage Light. I would love to swap it out for Major Breach (lower Spell Resistance by 5120) to make more of the DoT.

Keturah wrote: »

Aurora javelin is getting a increase in 10% dmg. on the average magicka templar this will on live give them 3000 damage(instead of 2800) on tooltip which will be 1500 in next patch(because of damage reduction) plus the reduction of spell resist and about 40% more damage on max range. Is this an ability to do damage with? no! is it a CC tool? yes? is it stopping people? no?!

I liked the Binding Morph before it went stam, but even with a 10% base damage increase Aurora isn't so great. The increase of damage up to 40% based on distance sounds great, but if I am doing PvE I'd rather charge in and use Sweep or else do CC with Luminous Shards/Blazing Spear.

In PvP Aurora can work from stealth but otherwise a block will negate the knockback and make the damage not worth the effort. This seems like it ought to be really good at first glance, which is why I used to have it as one of many options for slot one, but it just doesn't make the cut anymore. Not sure what to do with it. Increase the range from 20 meters/increase travel speed and buff the damage for distance traveled to reflect that?

Keturah wrote: »

Onward to blazing shield.

Currently outdated beyond anything else in this game. Spending roughly 2.5-3k magicka on getting 4k worth of shielding and then you will do damage of 54% of the value of the shield when it breaks.

Basically since the total value of the shield is based on 30% of Max Health of the caster and only increased noticeably when lots of enemies are really close (4% each), the damage return is only meaningful if lots of people are wailing on you at melee range. In PvE, if I get agrro for 6-8 mobs, that's 24% to 32% on top of the 30%, so 53% of that if you have high tank-like health isn't bad. Not awe-inspiring or devastating, but it's worth slotting. Pop BS and Sweep, Sweep, Sweep. You could try that in PvP (run into the middle of 6-8+ enemies) but most likely you'd be dead for little or no impact. So again, this ability seems situational and mostly good for soloing as a tanky character in PvE.

Might be interesting to focus some on Radiant Aura as well since it seems to be less popular. Hmm, maybe double the damage done on activation and stunning (targets can't move/use abilities until effect ends/they break free) or knocking back those caught in the blast? For Blazing could add disorienting (same as stun but also ends if target takes damage) or a knock back.

Baphomet wrote: »

4. Puncturing sweep / biting jabs

If it's gonna give CC immunity, add an actual CC to it - have the last hit disorient or stun.

Stun maybe, but disorient breaks on target receiving any new damage. Concussion is also a good option, reduces target's outgoing damage by 10%.

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Summary: some smallish tweaks could really rev up some under-performing skills and make for some interesting battles.

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

Yes. I agree.

I think Puncturing strikes needs a buff. Maybe a free Jesus Beam.

xaraan wrote: »

My feelings on templar is that they need to buff several of the skills, but radiant destruction/oppression still is too strong (jab is a little strong as well).

I might weaken jabs by like 5-10% at first and see how that does, but radiant dest/opp needs a heavy nerf hammer. Even my templar who has horrible high magicka and spell damage can do a lot of damage with this skill with very little effort/skill involved in its use. I think I'd make it about 25% weaker and 50% more expensive.

I do hope you mean stamina Jabs, because Puncturing Sweep doesn't do much dmg.

Than I can agree. Both Beam and Jabs does a little to much dmg. However both these skills are weak outside of raid game play. When people rage about Beam or Jabs, they usually have 5 different players beating on them...

They're basically sucker punch skills, with usage only if someone is on the same target, rooting and cc'ing it for you.

You cant really hit any decent players with Jabs 1v1 or small scale. It's a cone, he will just take one step to the right and you dont have any roots or good cc to keep him in place. Same with Beam. Individually, you're not going to kill anyone with it that knows anything about PvP. If you for some miraculous reason get him below 40%, can just block and Purge it of.

I think that's always been the main issue with templar. We want to be strong individually like other classes and get our own kills. But the class functionality is so limited to groups, as healer and even dps. There's just not enough synergy between skills and passives, no good cc, no roots, no mobility, no stamina management or insta cast, to be a decent single unit.

BugCollector wrote: »

Would like some response @ZOS_AlanG

me too...Many players had such great ideas fixing templar abilities or improve them but it does not look like that they give a shizzle

Halfwitte wrote: »

LoL clicked on the Z thinking I would see some feed back from ZoS regarding the state of templars. I don't know why I still do that anymore.

I do the same, still hoping.

Templars...

I need you.


I know everyone in this thread is enthusiastic to share their thoughts, and has some great stuff to contribute. . I don't agree with all of it but that's beside the point . I don't care if it strikes me as the stupidest or smartest, thing I've ever read! I want to include anything and everything you want to say in a feedback mega thread by the community. If you have a post here, give me the post number if you want it in there. Or reply to it if you go look and that'll be there too. I'll be pulling some of the thoughts out from here, but the idea is to get everyone's, not just mine, yours, or some other guy's, feedback organized for ZOS .

I cannot stress enough the importance of a proc for Dark Flare. This will be a total game changer for Templar casters.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

One other idea along those lines would be to buff up the healing part of Radiant Glory: with the larger damage and healing debuff in PVP now, in the Imperial City 2.1 PTS (and not so very long from now, live game), amplifying the healing mechanic of it could turn it into an interesting skill rather than one that's not quite there on live. Make it scale in the same way Radiant Oppression does for its damage off of your remaining magicka pool: the more you have, the higher amount it will heal you for. Increase the base value a moderately high amount, and suddenly, you have a pretty nice ability to damage and heal at the same time situationally, at the risk of being interrupted by a Crushing Shock, Venom Arrow, needing to cancel it, or a melee bash.

EDIT: I also very much like your idea of having the last hit of puncturing jabs/sweep apply Concuss, instead of the CC. That still makes it a nice effect, and makes it a very useful one for hitting someone with the last hit, but eliminates a lot of the, some of them situational and some of them not, valid concerns on it granting the crowd control immunity from its knockback.

Alcast wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

I cannot stress enough the importance of a proc for Dark Flare. This will be a total game changer for Templar casters.

but still the long flight duration makes it too easy to dodge....for example crystal frag hits the enemy 3x faster in the face than Dark flare...

That's why I say make all Dawn's Wrath projectiles un-dodgeable. Reflect or absord or block? Yes. Dodge? No.

Alot of criticism here about Templars, some constructive and most of it isnt. I am actually glad most people aren't as happy with the Tempars as I am. That just means less people to re-roll Temps and I continue being good on mine. So keep the negative comments going. Thx for your contribution to saving the class from being over populated.