Tbh just sounds like you're salty against the class for no reason, going to be pointless to try and respond to you.Again all of this good on paper.I don't think you know your class very much. Your post should look like this in terms of buffs.bosmern_ESO wrote: »I don't understand the arguing on this. To me it is simple, a change is being introduced to combat Sorcs stacking shields, this change is going to also make the templars shield worse, and considering it is also pretty crap to begin with, especially considering other shields around, such as sorc shield, that is where the complaint is. If the issue is with sorcs stacking shields, why is an already weak class with an already trash shield going to suffer a nerf as well?
Praise the eight that there was at least one person who understood what I was saying.
Its not a comparison to Hardened ward/Blazing shield. Hardened ward is still going to be a great damage shield while Sun shield and its morphs are just going to be a waste of an ability to have on your bar.
You can say Templars have a healing tree but they also have a bad DPS tree (unless your stam) and a Tree that just doesn't know what it is (Is it a DPS tree? or a buff/debuff tree or is it a status effect tree?)
With blazing shield being useless and even more useless when you can crit shields that leaves Templars with only one self buff, which is rune focus.
And If you want to compare self buffs between sorcs/temps here you go:
Templar-
Blazing shield
Rune focus
Sorc-
Ward
Bound armor
lightning form
Defensive rune
Surge
Dark Exchange
I'd also like to point out Templar are supposed to be melee/short range fighters while Sorcs stay away from the target and burst them down without ever getting near them, So shouldn't Templars have more self buffs?
Templar
Blazing Shield: Deals damage
Puncturing Sweep: Heals you for 40% of the damage done.
Vampires Bane: Gain Major Prophecy and decreases enemy movement speed by 40%
Dark Flare / Solar Barrage: Grants Empower.
Total Dark: Heals you, very OP if you use it properly.
Repentance: FREE cast that restores stamina and gives you regen for all your stats.
Purifying Ritual: Cleanses 2 harmful effects and heals you.
Channeled Focus: Increases Armor and Spell Resistance and restores magicka
Lets talk about Passives
Burning Light: 25% chance to cause x magic damage when using Blazing Spear / Blazing Shield / Toppling Charge / Sweep / Javelin
Illuminate: Grants Minor Sorcery (Stacks with Structured Entropy - Major Sorcery)
As for saying Templars are supposed to be melee/short ranged. That's highly untrue based on your playstyle, Templar has the most open choices than any other class.
Saying that you have no shields; Use Healing Ward on low health then heal yourself back to full and enjoy your 25k Shield just from that ability.
Lets see how it is working on current 1.7:
Blazing Shield: now 50% reduced coz Battle Spirit(BS). After expire dealing 50% less damage coz BS to player-target. 50% already reduced damage also mitigating by target armor. Double nerf.
Puncturing Sweep: dealing 50% less damage coz BS, i.e. healing based on damage already lowered by this. Also second check - 40% healing recieving based on damage also mitigating by 50% heal reduction coz BS. Double nerf
Vampire Bane, useless skill i prefer Reflective Light and this is nice skill indeed, but main part of it is DOT that not working vs damage shields, and 1.7 is all about it.
Dark Flare - Empower not working with channeled skills, and main templar dd skills are channeled. Also Solar Barrage has stuck animation and just uneffective in compare with Spear Shards.
Total Dark - nerf hammered for now http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/201565/revert-eclipse-cap-change/p1
Repentance - good skill for group play but you need corpses for this free cast. And passive regeneration just meh, you will drink pots in serious fight anyway.
Purifying Ritual - indeed on of the best templar skills, but again it is bugged and sometimes on IV version where it should dispel 5 effects, it is not dispelling even 2. If it will work as intended in 1.7 it would be nice.
Channeled Focus is nice and must have for templars in 1.7.
And best templar passives are Restoring Spirit, Focused Healing, rest are crap in compare with passives of other classes.
I think i better go out of this theorycrafting.
Nvm, i described how Templar skills working on current pts, dont blame me for sound salty, its not my fault if this is depressive to read. Ok, have a nice day.Tbh just sounds like you're salty against the class for no reason, going to be pointless to try and respond to you.Again all of this good on paper.I don't think you know your class very much. Your post should look like this in terms of buffs.bosmern_ESO wrote: »I don't understand the arguing on this. To me it is simple, a change is being introduced to combat Sorcs stacking shields, this change is going to also make the templars shield worse, and considering it is also pretty crap to begin with, especially considering other shields around, such as sorc shield, that is where the complaint is. If the issue is with sorcs stacking shields, why is an already weak class with an already trash shield going to suffer a nerf as well?
Praise the eight that there was at least one person who understood what I was saying.
Its not a comparison to Hardened ward/Blazing shield. Hardened ward is still going to be a great damage shield while Sun shield and its morphs are just going to be a waste of an ability to have on your bar.
You can say Templars have a healing tree but they also have a bad DPS tree (unless your stam) and a Tree that just doesn't know what it is (Is it a DPS tree? or a buff/debuff tree or is it a status effect tree?)
With blazing shield being useless and even more useless when you can crit shields that leaves Templars with only one self buff, which is rune focus.
And If you want to compare self buffs between sorcs/temps here you go:
Templar-
Blazing shield
Rune focus
Sorc-
Ward
Bound armor
lightning form
Defensive rune
Surge
Dark Exchange
I'd also like to point out Templar are supposed to be melee/short range fighters while Sorcs stay away from the target and burst them down without ever getting near them, So shouldn't Templars have more self buffs?
Templar
Blazing Shield: Deals damage
Puncturing Sweep: Heals you for 40% of the damage done.
Vampires Bane: Gain Major Prophecy and decreases enemy movement speed by 40%
Dark Flare / Solar Barrage: Grants Empower.
Total Dark: Heals you, very OP if you use it properly.
Repentance: FREE cast that restores stamina and gives you regen for all your stats.
Purifying Ritual: Cleanses 2 harmful effects and heals you.
Channeled Focus: Increases Armor and Spell Resistance and restores magicka
Lets talk about Passives
Burning Light: 25% chance to cause x magic damage when using Blazing Spear / Blazing Shield / Toppling Charge / Sweep / Javelin
Illuminate: Grants Minor Sorcery (Stacks with Structured Entropy - Major Sorcery)
As for saying Templars are supposed to be melee/short ranged. That's highly untrue based on your playstyle, Templar has the most open choices than any other class.
Saying that you have no shields; Use Healing Ward on low health then heal yourself back to full and enjoy your 25k Shield just from that ability.
Lets see how it is working on current 1.7:
Blazing Shield: now 50% reduced coz Battle Spirit(BS). After expire dealing 50% less damage coz BS to player-target. 50% already reduced damage also mitigating by target armor. Double nerf.
Puncturing Sweep: dealing 50% less damage coz BS, i.e. healing based on damage already lowered by this. Also second check - 40% healing recieving based on damage also mitigating by 50% heal reduction coz BS. Double nerf
Vampire Bane, useless skill i prefer Reflective Light and this is nice skill indeed, but main part of it is DOT that not working vs damage shields, and 1.7 is all about it.
Dark Flare - Empower not working with channeled skills, and main templar dd skills are channeled. Also Solar Barrage has stuck animation and just uneffective in compare with Spear Shards.
Total Dark - nerf hammered for now http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/201565/revert-eclipse-cap-change/p1
Repentance - good skill for group play but you need corpses for this free cast. And passive regeneration just meh, you will drink pots in serious fight anyway.
Purifying Ritual - indeed on of the best templar skills, but again it is bugged and sometimes on IV version where it should dispel 5 effects, it is not dispelling even 2. If it will work as intended in 1.7 it would be nice.
Channeled Focus is nice and must have for templars in 1.7.
And best templar passives are Restoring Spirit, Focused Healing, rest are crap in compare with passives of other classes.
I think i better go out of this theorycrafting.
Just remember it's all about the player in the end.
So you are saying templar is OK because we have 5 abilities that together are stronger than Hardened Ward(a single ability)?Hiero_Glyph wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »Why do you even posting this garbage when you say temp gets 5k damage shield while sorc gets 30k. Why lie and exaggerate like that where you're comparing temp with one shield versus sorc with three. Sorc shield is about 5k more than yours, so if you're gonna complain at least get the facts right.
The only way a Templar can get close to a sorc with 3 shield is if they used Barrier, Sun shield, healing ward and annul. Sorcs wont even need barrier and will have more shields then a temp.
I run with sorcs that still get 25-30k damage shields on the PTS, you might want to go back to math class if you think 25k damage shields are only 5k more then a 5k damage shield.
You know sorc only has one class shield right? Why are you comparing sorcs shield stacking versus one templar shield. Why man? Why?
Thank you @Erock25 . I think he also does not understand his class has a healing tree..
A shield effectively increases your max health by the amount of the shield, even more without crits. A heal only replenishes your missing health. Apples and oranges.
I'll leave out any fruit analogies and spell it out very clearly for you:
Templars do not have Hardened Ward because Templars have a healing tree. Sorcs have Hardened Ward because they do not have a healing tree.
bosmern_ESO wrote: »Why do you even posting this garbage when you say temp gets 5k damage shield while sorc gets 30k. Why lie and exaggerate like that where you're comparing temp with one shield versus sorc with three. Sorc shield is about 5k more than yours, so if you're gonna complain at least get the facts right.
The only way a Templar can get close to a sorc with 3 shield is if they used Barrier, Sun shield, healing ward and annul. Sorcs wont even need barrier and will have more shields then a temp.
I run with sorcs that still get 25-30k damage shields on the PTS, you might want to go back to math class if you think 25k damage shields are only 5k more then a 5k damage shield.
The thing is, a Templar doesnt have to get close to Sorc shields, because you have your strong self heals.
But #NerfHealingWard
well his templar has the same 14k anulment shield as sorcs wich brings him to comparable 19k shields while still having a 10k instand BoL wich the sorc dont get so we have 30+k defense on the templar side with additional pbae dmg ws 25-30k defensive without any offensive side effects.
I don't think you know your class very much. Your post should look like this in terms of buffs.bosmern_ESO wrote: »I don't understand the arguing on this. To me it is simple, a change is being introduced to combat Sorcs stacking shields, this change is going to also make the templars shield worse, and considering it is also pretty crap to begin with, especially considering other shields around, such as sorc shield, that is where the complaint is. If the issue is with sorcs stacking shields, why is an already weak class with an already trash shield going to suffer a nerf as well?
Praise the eight that there was at least one person who understood what I was saying.
Its not a comparison to Hardened ward/Blazing shield. Hardened ward is still going to be a great damage shield while Sun shield and its morphs are just going to be a waste of an ability to have on your bar.
You can say Templars have a healing tree but they also have a bad DPS tree (unless your stam) and a Tree that just doesn't know what it is (Is it a DPS tree? or a buff/debuff tree or is it a status effect tree?)
With blazing shield being useless and even more useless when you can crit shields that leaves Templars with only one self buff, which is rune focus.
And If you want to compare self buffs between sorcs/temps here you go:
Templar-
Blazing shield
Rune focus
Sorc-
Ward
Bound armor
lightning form
Defensive rune
Surge
Dark Exchange
I'd also like to point out Templar are supposed to be melee/short range fighters while Sorcs stay away from the target and burst them down without ever getting near them, So shouldn't Templars have more self buffs?
Templar
Blazing Shield: Deals damage
Puncturing Sweep: Heals you for 40% of the damage done.
Vampires Bane: Gain Major Prophecy and decreases enemy movement speed by 40%
Dark Flare / Solar Barrage: Grants Empower.
Total Dark: Heals you, very OP if you use it properly.
Repentance: FREE cast that restores stamina and gives you regen for all your stats.
Purifying Ritual: Cleanses 2 harmful effects and heals you.
Channeled Focus: Increases Armor and Spell Resistance and restores magicka
Lets talk about Passives
Burning Light: 25% chance to cause x magic damage when using Blazing Spear / Blazing Shield / Toppling Charge / Sweep / Javelin
Illuminate: Grants Minor Sorcery (Stacks with Structured Entropy - Major Sorcery)
As for saying Templars are supposed to be melee/short ranged. That's highly untrue based on your playstyle, Templar has the most open choices than any other class.
Saying that you have no shields; Use Healing Ward on low health then heal yourself back to full and enjoy your 25k Shield just from that ability.
bosmern_ESO wrote: »Why do you even posting this garbage when you say temp gets 5k damage shield while sorc gets 30k. Why lie and exaggerate like that where you're comparing temp with one shield versus sorc with three. Sorc shield is about 5k more than yours, so if you're gonna complain at least get the facts right.
The only way a Templar can get close to a sorc with 3 shield is if they used Barrier, Sun shield, healing ward and annul. Sorcs wont even need barrier and will have more shields then a temp.
I run with sorcs that still get 25-30k damage shields on the PTS, you might want to go back to math class if you think 25k damage shields are only 5k more then a 5k damage shield.
The thing is, a Templar doesnt have to get close to Sorc shields, because you have your strong self heals.
But #NerfHealingWard
well his templar has the same 14k anulment shield as sorcs wich brings him to comparable 19k shields while still having a 10k instand BoL wich the sorc dont get so we have 30+k defense on the templar side with additional pbae dmg ws 25-30k defensive without any offensive side effects.
Switch the two effects. Currently (healing ward at least) gives a small heal and massive shield when at low heath. Make it gives a massive heal and a small shield instead. Same thing for Ward Ally, except the massive heal at low health is applied to a nearby ally and yourself. I dunno, maybe toss in a 1-5% damage taken reduction for 5 sec after the shield expires to make it a little different, or AoE heal when the shield bursts, or shield heals another nearby ally for x% when the shield expires. Heck maybe add a cleanse somewhere that gives a small heal if it doesn't cleanse, if all the other ideas aren't appealing.Maybe a solution would be to change Healing Ward to a burst heal rather than a damage shield.
Tho I'm not sure how they could make it different enough from Breath of Life/Honor the Dead.
Hiero_Glyph wrote: »A shield effectively increases your max health by the amount of the shield, even more without crits. A heal only replenishes your missing health. Apples and oranges.
No it doesn't increase your max health by the amount of the shield, because shield health is received unmitigated, while normal health receives full mitigation. There is so much false claims on this forum it is staggering.
It is also true that Sorc shields are only about 5K stronger than Templar shields, because Healing Ward is not a Sorc skill, and the only reason Sorcs can stack so high is because of Healing Ward, which is available to Templars too.
People also seem to forget Healing Ward is only so strong when your health is in execute range. But yes currently Healing Ward is bugged, and that has nothing to do with Sorcs.
FireCowCommando wrote: »All other arguments aside, is there even one person in this thread that feels blazing shield is still viable in IC? Anyone? Why?
FireCowCommando wrote: »All other arguments aside, is there even one person in this thread that feels blazing shield is still viable in IC? Anyone? Why?
No.
Even in Heavy Armor with over 30k health my BS gives me a 4500 shield for roughly the same magika cost as a BoL (around 4900 heal base which can crit btw). And the HP restored is going to be mitigated damage unlike BS.
The offensive side is comical thanks to the double nerf effect so the shield, when popped, hits for...1100 damage. lol.
Radiant Ward is way better now, since it is almost the same damage, but up front, with a bigger shield and it costs less to boot. Although it is pretty useless now also compared to just using a heal instead.
FireCowCommando wrote: »All other arguments aside, is there even one person in this thread that feels blazing shield is still viable in IC? Anyone? Why?
Why do you even posting this garbage when you say temp gets 5k damage shield while sorc gets 30k. Why lie and exaggerate like that where you're comparing temp with one shield versus sorc with three. Sorc shield is about 5k more than yours, so if you're gonna complain at least get the facts right.
sorcs have no shield that lasts longer than 5 sec while beeing attacked either so whats the problem again?
btw you should start to recognize that healing ward is by far the most powerfull shield out there. wich is acessable to every body<- 30k shield by my templar, yeah compleatly unworthy and unstackable ^^
FireCowCommando wrote: »I had a semi crazy idea, since ZoS is staying as far away from balancing shields against each other. Why not go a different way:
Blazing shield is without question lack luster. Would it be crazy to have it remove 1 negative effect on cast? Self cleanse only of course, no one else. It actually fits the class reasonably well. Granted it would counter the 1 guy in the back hiding with a coldfire fire siege, but maybe thats not such a bad thing.
I am pleased about the crit damage to shields; however, BS is kinda useless even now. Maybe ZoS should make it hit for more - like it did in the early days so it is more offensive than defensive.
I am pleased about the crit damage to shields; however, BS is kinda useless even now. Maybe ZoS should make it hit for more - like it did in the early days so it is more offensive than defensive.
What they could do, if they don't want a separate skill for PvP from PvE, is to decouple the damage from the shield size.
So it would be the same shield size mechanic based on health, but then just have it do a flat amount of magic damage on exploding which scales based on magicka/spell power.
This way you have a strong shield whos damage is weaker unless you invest in spell power/magicka, or good damage that gets weaker if you start investing in health. You know, proper balance.
Hiero_Glyph wrote: »
I am pleased about the crit damage to shields; however, BS is kinda useless even now. Maybe ZoS should make it hit for more - like it did in the early days so it is more offensive than defensive.
What they could do, if they don't want a separate skill for PvP from PvE, is to decouple the damage from the shield size.
So it would be the same shield size mechanic based on health, but then just have it do a flat amount of magic damage on exploding which scales based on magicka/spell power.
This way you have a strong shield whos damage is weaker unless you invest in spell power/magicka, or good damage that gets weaker if you start investing in health. You know, proper balance.
ummm have you heard of radiant ward?