Shield stacking

Dracane · July 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

This could be a really good solution to it.

For Barrier
1- When barrier is popped, anyone WITHOUT a shield is given one.
2- Anyone with a shield strength LOWER than the new Barrier would have their shield cancelled and replaced by it.
3- Anyone with a shield strength GREATER than the shield being applying is unaffected, no shield stacking could be done.

For Healing Ward
1- When shield is popped, anyone WITHOUT a shield is given one.
2- Anyone with a shield strength LOWER than the Healing Ward shield would have their shield cancelled and replaced by it.
3- Anyone with a shield strength GREATER than the Healing Ward shield strength would only receive the Heal from it and not have the shield stacked.

This will ensure that you can only have one shield on at a time and receive the biggest shield boost. This would also allow you to receive a needed heal from the Ward even though no shield would be added.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_RichLambert, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Thoughts?

How about Harness Magicka ? Is it allowed ?
Then I totally agree to this change, especially the Barrier and Healing Ward thing.

Well... you were only talking about Barrier and Healing ward

but you know what I mean

Robbmrp · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

This could be a really good solution to it.

For Barrier
1- When barrier is popped, anyone WITHOUT a shield is given one.
2- Anyone with a shield strength LOWER than the new Barrier would have their shield cancelled and replaced by it.
3- Anyone with a shield strength GREATER than the shield being applying is unaffected, no shield stacking could be done.

For Healing Ward
1- When shield is popped, anyone WITHOUT a shield is given one.
2- Anyone with a shield strength LOWER than the Healing Ward shield would have their shield cancelled and replaced by it.
3- Anyone with a shield strength GREATER than the Healing Ward shield strength would only receive the Heal from it and not have the shield stacked.

This will ensure that you can only have one shield on at a time and receive the biggest shield boost. This would also allow you to receive a needed heal from the Ward even though no shield would be added.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_RichLambert, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Thoughts?

How about Harness Magicka ? Is it allowed ?
Then I totally agree to this change, especially the Barrier and Healing Ward thing.

Well... you were only talking about Barrier and Healing ward but you know what I mean

Yeah, I edited the note shortly after the post to indicate it applied to any existing shield with a new one being casted. So I think were all covered now. Anything they can do similar to this would help out a lot.

Dracane · July 2015

I wouldn't know how to survive against the Magicka DK killer DPS with only one shield without getting OOM.
But I think, if they would boost every single shield in the game, it COULD work.

Not sure though. I still say Healing Ward is the only problem. Harness Magicka is pretty much useless, since they fixed this beautiful bug, that allowed it to restore Magick no matter if you were hit my magical or physical attacks. The only reason why Sorcs can sustain against Stamina Nightblades

wraithguknub18_ESO · July 2015

the only issue I personally have with shield stacking is that fact that you can have 10-15 people beating on a shield stacking sorc and his/health doesnt move. Ive seen it too many times. Yes dark cloak can mitigate some damage but there are too many ways a group of people can still beat the *** out of a nb spamming Dark Cloak
A Dk while tougher and can take more of a pounding can still get overwhelmed with that many people.

I dont want to see the shields gone I think sorcs need them. However I would like to see them toned down a bit. When you can spam stack shields and bolt escape away to freedom while still doing massive damage is a bit unbalanced imo.

Im no expert I could be wrong its just my opinion

Wycks · July 2015

+1 This really needs to be looked at.

The set the does 1k Damage to shields is ridiculous....

Revert them to how they worked 6+ months ago so they cannot be chain casted to full , the shield has to expire before it can be recast, or the recast just takes on the same amount that was there and refreshes the timer.

Xsorus · July 2015

When they first announced the changes coming, virtually everyone pointed out that if ya nerf the two different mitigations Dodge Rolling and Blocking, while leaving in Shield Stacking, its going to result in it still being overpowered..and no...Nerfing Shields by 50% while reducing all damage by the same amount is not a nerf..

If before you had a 4000 point shields, and I hit you for 4000 damage, and after the patch you have a 2000 point shield, and I hit you for 2000 damage..guess what....nothing has bloody changed.

Stikato · July 2015

^^ And actually, shield stacking has been buffed because it is harder to kill those builds when the shields are actually taken down.

Xsorus · July 2015

Stikato wrote: »

^^ And actually, shield stacking has been buffed because it is harder to kill those builds when the shields are actually taken down.

Yea that's also a benefit of blanket damage nerfs as well in terms of shield stacking.

Laggus · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Why are you calling it "abusing" ? O.o this is intended. You act like those who use it are criminal exploiters.
Aren't you ashamed ?

There's no shame in calling a cheap mechanic for what it is. There is shame in relying on it though.

Yes, I am ashamed, that Sorcerers are 1 shot without shields. I am ashamed that I want to survive. I am ashamed, that I rely on a shield to achieve that.

I am ashamed that I cannot heal myself to full withing seconds like DKs and Templars, I am ashamed that I cannot cloak to just avoid damage entirely or that I can't block all day long (I know, this is not possible anymore, but still extremely strong)

You left out being ashamed for running around with bugger all invested in HP (all you Sorcs with 14k HP) and then complaining you get one shot when you have no shields.

Dracane · July 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

When they first announced the changes coming, virtually everyone pointed out that if ya nerf the two different mitigations Dodge Rolling and Blocking, while leaving in Shield Stacking, its going to result in it still being overpowered..and no...Nerfing Shields by 50% while reducing all damage by the same amount is not a nerf..

If before you had a 4000 point shields, and I hit you for 4000 damage, and after the patch you have a 2000 point shield, and I hit you for 2000 damage..guess what....nothing has bloody changed.

Yes, if this was the case. But it's not the case.
Shields were nerfed by 35%, damage by 30%

that's a difference in my book.

However, they now have 'virtually' more health. That's what allows them to take more damage than before. The only solution is to adress this health problem.
Maybe making it impossible to heal yourself while you have shields active, or making heals applied to yourself 50% weaker while you have shields active. This would take care of the main problem: Healing Ward. ? Don't know, something like this.

Xsorus · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

When they first announced the changes coming, virtually everyone pointed out that if ya nerf the two different mitigations Dodge Rolling and Blocking, while leaving in Shield Stacking, its going to result in it still being overpowered..and no...Nerfing Shields by 50% while reducing all damage by the same amount is not a nerf..

If before you had a 4000 point shields, and I hit you for 4000 damage, and after the patch you have a 2000 point shield, and I hit you for 2000 damage..guess what....nothing has bloody changed.

Yes, if this was the case. But it's not the case.
Shields were nerfed by 35%, damage by 30% that's a difference in my book.

However, they now have 'virtually' more health. That's what allows them to take more damage than before. The only solution is to adress this health problem.
Maybe making it impossible to heal yourself while you have shields active, or making heals applied to yourself 50% weaker while you have shields active. This would take care of the main problem: Healing Ward. ? Don't know, something like this.

That would result in all class shields being nerfed when 1 is really the problem..Blanket changes like that don't work.

Simply make Hardened Ward Scale off Health.

Dracane · July 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

When they first announced the changes coming, virtually everyone pointed out that if ya nerf the two different mitigations Dodge Rolling and Blocking, while leaving in Shield Stacking, its going to result in it still being overpowered..and no...Nerfing Shields by 50% while reducing all damage by the same amount is not a nerf..

If before you had a 4000 point shields, and I hit you for 4000 damage, and after the patch you have a 2000 point shield, and I hit you for 2000 damage..guess what....nothing has bloody changed.

Yes, if this was the case. But it's not the case.
Shields were nerfed by 35%, damage by 30% that's a difference in my book.

However, they now have 'virtually' more health. That's what allows them to take more damage than before. The only solution is to adress this health problem.
Maybe making it impossible to heal yourself while you have shields active, or making heals applied to yourself 50% weaker while you have shields active. This would take care of the main problem: Healing Ward. ? Don't know, something like this.

That would result in all class shields being nerfed when 1 is really the problem..Blanket changes like that don't work.

Simply make Hardened Ward Scale off Health.

Are you insane ? No way.
You appearently have no clue, how Sorcerer is supposed to work.
Healing Ward is the problem btw, not hardened ward.

Strider_Roshin · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

When they first announced the changes coming, virtually everyone pointed out that if ya nerf the two different mitigations Dodge Rolling and Blocking, while leaving in Shield Stacking, its going to result in it still being overpowered..and no...Nerfing Shields by 50% while reducing all damage by the same amount is not a nerf..

If before you had a 4000 point shields, and I hit you for 4000 damage, and after the patch you have a 2000 point shield, and I hit you for 2000 damage..guess what....nothing has bloody changed.

Yes, if this was the case. But it's not the case.
Shields were nerfed by 35%, damage by 30% that's a difference in my book.

However, they now have 'virtually' more health. That's what allows them to take more damage than before. The only solution is to adress this health problem.
Maybe making it impossible to heal yourself while you have shields active, or making heals applied to yourself 50% weaker while you have shields active. This would take care of the main problem: Healing Ward. ? Don't know, something like this.

That would result in all class shields being nerfed when 1 is really the problem..Blanket changes like that don't work.

Simply make Hardened Ward Scale off Health.

Are you insane ? No way.
You appearently have no clue, how Sorcerer is supposed to work.
Healing Ward is the problem btw, not hardened ward.

Everyone knows how sorcerers are suppose to work. They're suppose to have the most damage while at the same time have the most damage mitigation and mobility. That's why they can't have it scale from health, otherwise they'd just have maximum damage output while having minimal damage mitigation like every other class would. Can't have that now.

Dracane · July 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

When they first announced the changes coming, virtually everyone pointed out that if ya nerf the two different mitigations Dodge Rolling and Blocking, while leaving in Shield Stacking, its going to result in it still being overpowered..and no...Nerfing Shields by 50% while reducing all damage by the same amount is not a nerf..

If before you had a 4000 point shields, and I hit you for 4000 damage, and after the patch you have a 2000 point shield, and I hit you for 2000 damage..guess what....nothing has bloody changed.

Yes, if this was the case. But it's not the case.
Shields were nerfed by 35%, damage by 30% that's a difference in my book.

However, they now have 'virtually' more health. That's what allows them to take more damage than before. The only solution is to adress this health problem.
Maybe making it impossible to heal yourself while you have shields active, or making heals applied to yourself 50% weaker while you have shields active. This would take care of the main problem: Healing Ward. ? Don't know, something like this.

That would result in all class shields being nerfed when 1 is really the problem..Blanket changes like that don't work.

Simply make Hardened Ward Scale off Health.

Are you insane ? No way.
You appearently have no clue, how Sorcerer is supposed to work.
Healing Ward is the problem btw, not hardened ward.

Everyone knows how sorcerers are suppose to work. They're suppose to have the most damage while at the same time have the most damage mitigation and mobility. That's why they can't have it scale from health, otherwise they'd just have maximum damage output while having minimal damage mitigation like every other class would. Can't have that now.

No. Sorcerers don't have the maximum damage output

All my PvE worries would be gone if this was the case.
Sorcerers are supposed to have no reliable self heal, but have a really good class shield to compensate for that. Sorcerer is a mage you know ? A Mage has a high Mana/Magicka pool and uses this pool to deal damage and to protect himself. His mental strenght is what makes him a mage, not his health or his body strenght. So finally erase this weird idea from your mind.

Templars and Dragonknights aren't supposed to have strong damage shields. Because they have strong self heals (templars. Dk also has a great one, his damage shield also increases that) and they have strong body defense.

I fail to see any problems here. Everything works as intended.

Merlin13KAGL · August 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

When they first announced the changes coming, virtually everyone pointed out that if ya nerf the two different mitigations Dodge Rolling and Blocking, while leaving in Shield Stacking, its going to result in it still being overpowered..and no...Nerfing Shields by 50% while reducing all damage by the same amount is not a nerf..

If before you had a 4000 point shields, and I hit you for 4000 damage, and after the patch you have a 2000 point shield, and I hit you for 2000 damage..guess what....nothing has bloody changed.

Yes, if this was the case. But it's not the case.
Shields were nerfed by 35%, damage by 30% that's a difference in my book.

However, they now have 'virtually' more health. That's what allows them to take more damage than before. The only solution is to adress this health problem.
Maybe making it impossible to heal yourself while you have shields active, or making heals applied to yourself 50% weaker while you have shields active. This would take care of the main problem: Healing Ward. ? Don't know, something like this.

That would result in all class shields being nerfed when 1 is really the problem..Blanket changes like that don't work.

Simply make Hardened Ward Scale off Health.

Are you insane ? No way.
You appearently have no clue, how Sorcerer is supposed to work.
Healing Ward is the problem btw, not hardened ward.

Everyone knows how sorcerers are suppose to work. They're suppose to have the most damage while at the same time have the most damage mitigation and mobility. That's why they can't have it scale from health, otherwise they'd just have maximum damage output while having minimal damage mitigation like every other class would. Can't have that now.

Except they don't have max damage, and mitigation is a joke.

Mitigation is primarily based on Armor Weight, with the BS added bonus of free Spell Resist along with your physical resist, along with your higher HP, generally.

How to you possibly figure a class that is forced into wearing LA in order to have any measure of sustain has more mitigation than a class free to use MA (3x the mitigation for both) or HA (4x the mitigation for both)?

Incidentally, a shield based on Health is ass-backwards in the first place - that would benefit you more with a higher HP pool. Shields are intended to suppliment/offset a lower HP pool, not make a large one larger.

The armor passives, as they stand, are far from balanced, and last I checked on the PTS, everyone is using a shield of some type, and most are not stacking. (You have to have room for some DPS somewhere in there, and there simply isn't room for more than one shield in the current meta.)

Erock25 · August 2015

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

the only issue I personally have with shield stacking is that fact that you can have 10-15 people beating on a shield stacking sorc and his/health doesnt move. Ive seen it too many times. Yes dark cloak can mitigate some damage but there are too many ways a group of people can still beat the *** out of a nb spamming Dark Cloak
A Dk while tougher and can take more of a pounding can still get overwhelmed with that many people.

I dont want to see the shields gone I think sorcs need them. However I would like to see them toned down a bit. When you can spam stack shields and bolt escape away to freedom while still doing massive damage is a bit unbalanced imo.

Im no expert I could be wrong its just my opinion

10-15 people can't put out a collective 10k dps? There's something wrong with your group.

All this shield QQ and right now both hardened ward and healing ward are bugged and shielding for too much. ZOS already decided to let shields be crit because of bugged abilities throwing balance out of whack. Let's not force them to make more knee jerk reactions.

byrom101b16_ESO · August 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

the only issue I personally have with shield stacking is that fact that you can have 10-15 people beating on a shield stacking sorc and his/health doesnt move. Ive seen it too many times. Yes dark cloak can mitigate some damage but there are too many ways a group of people can still beat the *** out of a nb spamming Dark Cloak
A Dk while tougher and can take more of a pounding can still get overwhelmed with that many people.

I dont want to see the shields gone I think sorcs need them. However I would like to see them toned down a bit. When you can spam stack shields and bolt escape away to freedom while still doing massive damage is a bit unbalanced imo.

Im no expert I could be wrong its just my opinion

10-15 people can't put out a collective 10k dps? There's something wrong with your group.

All this shield QQ and right now both hardened ward and healing ward are bugged and shielding for too much. ZOS already decided to let shields be crit because of bugged abilities throwing balance out of whack. Let's not force them to make more knee jerk reactions.

Nice to agree with you on something Erock.

Healing Ward imo should be changed to a 10 second HoT triggered by you taking damage, with a burst self heal when you get into execute range - all automatic, but not staggeringly powerful as it is now and not stackable with itself.

There is a Vampire Mist Form/Shield exploit which the poster here has witnessed (if they aren't just blowing the usual smoke) and 10+ people on one Sorc. are either biblically incompetent or facing just such an exploiter - period.

One good NB can take down a pure Hardened Warder, a very good one if Healing Ward is in the mix and they have Teleport Strike and Fear slotted and specced.

On an unrelated topic, your most recent stam sorc suggestions are much better than your old ones, as they don't mess with magicka sorcs to anything like the same extent as before. That said, unless you get them, Zenimax completely failed you, and mislead on the 'stam sorc love' statements.

But did you really expect anything else?

Tankqull · August 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

wraithguknub18_ESO wrote: »

the only issue I personally have with shield stacking is that fact that you can have 10-15 people beating on a shield stacking sorc and his/health doesnt move. Ive seen it too many times. Yes dark cloak can mitigate some damage but there are too many ways a group of people can still beat the *** out of a nb spamming Dark Cloak
A Dk while tougher and can take more of a pounding can still get overwhelmed with that many people.

I dont want to see the shields gone I think sorcs need them. However I would like to see them toned down a bit. When you can spam stack shields and bolt escape away to freedom while still doing massive damage is a bit unbalanced imo.

Im no expert I could be wrong its just my opinion

10-15 people can't put out a collective 10k dps? There's something wrong with your group.

All this shield QQ and right now both hardened ward and healing ward are bugged and shielding for too much. ZOS already decided to let shields be crit because of bugged abilities throwing balance out of whack. Let's not force them to make more knee jerk reactions.

not to mention bugs with twice born star and overload enableing a sorc to inflate their magica significantly without any drawbacks - and in combination with ZOS policy of no punishment to cheaters (just watch the videos linked in this forum there are a lot displaying the abusement of those bugs) leads to a (relativly) wide spread usage of them wich makes it hard to differ between bad played sorcs or sorcs who just play "legit"...

Dracane · August 2015

And what we gonna do with Ward Ally ? This abilitiy is essential for resto staff healers in dungeons. This is my breed and butter skill as a healer, couldn't live without giving my allies this damage shield to buy myself some time. Because we all know, healing staff offers no blind-direct heal.

People would just take this, if Healing ward was no shield anymore.