Why don't dk's and templars have escape skills?

Bromburak · August 2015

Of course you can die vs. mass because you are not superman. Is this your expectation? Thats hilarious.

starkerealm · August 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

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starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Rhakon wrote: »

Every class can be tanky in pvp but only two can flee away fro losing fights.

Tell that to the sorc that tried to bolt away from me last night, but couldn't shake my clanfear. He followed them, and led me to their hiding place.

Bolt Escape has a very limited range, and the costs get stupid over time.

Nightblades can use concealed weapon and shadow cloak to get out of sight and stay gone, but it will still chew through a ton of magicka. The best they're going to swing is maybe 20 seconds of invisibility.

Also, it's worth pointing out that the light and medium armor classes are the ones with disengagement options. The ones that are supposed to be tanky have a harder time fleeing.

Given how godlike the DK supporters claim to be... yeah, I'm not finding a lot of sympathy for those players.

Does the reduce area detection that medium armour has work with magelight, because i swear magelight doesn't detect 20 metres.

I'd have to double check, but I think (non-Radiant) Magelight lost it's stealth detection abilities in 1.6.

I mean't with radiant because it's meant to detect 20m but when i pop a detect pop it has higher range that radiant and there both mean't to detect 20m.

From what I understand, there's a natural stealth detect radius. If an enemy is stealthed outside of that range, you can't see them; if they move into that range, then you can.

Medium armor passives, and the Bosmer and Khajiit passives (for that matter), appear to reduce all enemy detection radii when dealing with that character. It doesn't reduce their ability to see other stealthed characters, but if you're the one in medium armor, you can get a lot closer to them than they'd like.

Now, invisibility is not stealth. You can go invisible (either via potions or shadow cloak) and be completely hidden. I think it also has a detect radius, but if that's the case it starts at something like 1m.

What Radiant Magelight and Detect potions do is enlarge that original detection radius. I think detect pots add 20m to your detect range while magelight simply sets your detect range to 20m, but I'm not 100% certain of that. They also increase (or create) an invisibility detect range of, again, 20m.

I don't know if medium armor takes priority over the potions, or if the potions take priority over medium armor. That means either you get a -35% to the original detect radius (so 6.5m) and then add 20 (26.5m), or you get the 30m radius, and then that reduces to 19.5m from medium armor.

Also, I'm honestly not sure how they interact.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · August 2015

Step 1: Apply Rapid Manuvers
Step: Close Topic

Rapid Manuevers is almost as fast as bolt escape. Using it to run and hide is very possible.

leepalmer95 · August 2015

Bromburak wrote: »

Of course you can die vs. mass because you are not superman. Is this your expectation? Thats hilarious.

My problem is DK and templar do die to mass, ofc they do there not 'superman' but sorc and nb's can escape the mass.

Go re read the thread before you get involved.

Bromburak · August 2015

It doesn't matter because you will notice when being detected , but that doesn't mean they directly see you.
It also gives you the choice to leave asap after you notice that hidden was uncovered.

But as a Stamblade you better make sure there is no sneaking magicka NB, because you are dead before you notice being uncovered. Very rare and situational because most opponents run around like elephants.

But when ever you face a hidden duel situation there is no way you survive a good first attack magickablade.

Rinmaethodain · August 2015

Only cowards escape and run.

Artemiisia · August 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

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Artemiisia wrote: »

everybody can shield stack, not just sorc

1 skill is 1h/sword
1 skill is light armor
1 skill is sorc
1 skill are DKs

No one can viably stack shields like sorc and keep dmg.

so what, dks and templars can self heal better

Teiji · August 2015

Templar and Dragonknight do not have escape skills and they can be identified as fitting the fantasy Warrior class archetype.

xaraan · August 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

everybody can shield stack, not just sorc

1 skill is 1h/sword
1 skill is light armor
1 skill is sorc
1 skill are DKs

Well, the sorc shield is pretty beast and makes the best base to stack on. I think that's why sorcs get all the crap for shield stacking. It also scales off magicka intead of health, so is very powerful for casters.

Templar's class shield sucks, too short to be useful most of the time.

It's a lot different when you can stack a 15k shield that lasts for 20 seconds with all the other shields than when you stack a shield that lasts 6 seconds at half the strength and makes you glow like a beacon calling out for everyone to kill you.

Rayste · August 2015

Sneak_Thief wrote: »

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leepalmer95 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Because they're different classes with different intentions.

DKs were designed as the tank class, Temps the healer class, NBs are the rouge-ish class. if you don't like it, play another class.

'Tank' with no stamina regen when blocking, very tanky indeed.

It's simply called unbalance.

No... its called 'different classes have different mechanics'. Otherwise they would all be the same & then whats the point in classes!

With the numerous nerfs to Bolt its not going to be possible to bolt across Cyro anymore... It will be used to reposition during a fight more often than actually running I would guess (Probably a good thing).

You want DK's & Templars to have an escape...

...Then Sorcs & NB's need big bad heals & reflects etc!

Sorc have easy 30k shields.

Nb's don't need reflects or heals if you don't 1 hit people they can just hit cloak to stealth attack again and again, Oh lets damage them! nevermind there gone or lets Meteor them, after the initial hit they can cloak instantly because Dot's don't mean anything to nb's.

Yea those 30k shields are an imbalance, Sorcs can proc those shields run in kill a zerg single handed and bolt out. Sorcs shields are just too op in my opinion. Not to mention keep procing those shields, and it take ALOT of damage to get through it, and still they have the magicka to keep it up.

This is misinformation sneak and not how it works ... fairly clear you don't play a sorc and I bet I can guess what class you do play ...

leepalmer95 · August 2015

Rayste wrote: »

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Sneak_Thief wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Because they're different classes with different intentions.

DKs were designed as the tank class, Temps the healer class, NBs are the rouge-ish class. if you don't like it, play another class.

'Tank' with no stamina regen when blocking, very tanky indeed.

It's simply called unbalance.

No... its called 'different classes have different mechanics'. Otherwise they would all be the same & then whats the point in classes!

With the numerous nerfs to Bolt its not going to be possible to bolt across Cyro anymore... It will be used to reposition during a fight more often than actually running I would guess (Probably a good thing).

You want DK's & Templars to have an escape...

...Then Sorcs & NB's need big bad heals & reflects etc!

Sorc have easy 30k shields.

Nb's don't need reflects or heals if you don't 1 hit people they can just hit cloak to stealth attack again and again, Oh lets damage them! nevermind there gone or lets Meteor them, after the initial hit they can cloak instantly because Dot's don't mean anything to nb's.

Yea those 30k shields are an imbalance, Sorcs can proc those shields run in kill a zerg single handed and bolt out. Sorcs shields are just too op in my opinion. Not to mention keep procing those shields, and it take ALOT of damage to get through it, and still they have the magicka to keep it up.

This is misinformation sneak and not how it works ... fairly clear you don't play a sorc and I bet I can guess what class you do play ...

but a sorc can easily spam hardened ward everytime it's about to drop though

tplink3r1 · August 2015

eNumbra wrote: »

Because they're different classes with different intentions.

DKs were designed as the tank class, Temps the healer class, NBs are the rouge-ish class. if you don't like it, play another class.

It hurts when i read things like that.

Tankqull · August 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rayste wrote: »

Sneak_Thief wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Because they're different classes with different intentions.

DKs were designed as the tank class, Temps the healer class, NBs are the rouge-ish class. if you don't like it, play another class.

'Tank' with no stamina regen when blocking, very tanky indeed.

It's simply called unbalance.

No... its called 'different classes have different mechanics'. Otherwise they would all be the same & then whats the point in classes!

With the numerous nerfs to Bolt its not going to be possible to bolt across Cyro anymore... It will be used to reposition during a fight more often than actually running I would guess (Probably a good thing).

You want DK's & Templars to have an escape...

...Then Sorcs & NB's need big bad heals & reflects etc!

Sorc have easy 30k shields.

Nb's don't need reflects or heals if you don't 1 hit people they can just hit cloak to stealth attack again and again, Oh lets damage them! nevermind there gone or lets Meteor them, after the initial hit they can cloak instantly because Dot's don't mean anything to nb's.

Yea those 30k shields are an imbalance, Sorcs can proc those shields run in kill a zerg single handed and bolt out. Sorcs shields are just too op in my opinion. Not to mention keep procing those shields, and it take ALOT of damage to get through it, and still they have the magicka to keep it up.

This is misinformation sneak and not how it works ... fairly clear you don't play a sorc and I bet I can guess what class you do play ...

but a sorc can easily spam hardened ward everytime it's about to drop though

in that case they are doing nothing else. if you are not throwing wet noodles at them.

Solanum · August 2015

Give a Nightblade the selfhealing of a templar or dragonknight, or give us the absorption shields/projectile reflection and you can have an escape mechanism that can be broken by AoE, potions of stealth detection, and a few specific abilities like magelight.

I've got no excuses for sorcerers whom have the power, survivability and the best escape mechanism.

leepalmer95 · August 2015

Solanum wrote: »

Give a Nightblade the selfhealing of a templar or dragonknight, or give us the absorption shields/projectile reflection and you can have an escape mechanism that can be broken by AoE, potions of stealth detection, and a few specific abilities like magelight.

I've got no excuses for sorcerers whom have the power, survivability and the best escape mechanism.

Well after this patch only aoe will break it, and whats the chance of someone randomly aoe an area looking for you because in stealth you sneak faster than i run.

Tankqull · August 2015

Solanum wrote: »

Give a Nightblade the selfhealing of a templar or dragonknight, or give us the absorption shields/projectile reflection and you can have an escape mechanism that can be broken by AoE, potions of stealth detection, and a few specific abilities like magelight.

I've got no excuses for sorcerers whom have the power, survivability and the best escape mechanism.

cloak is way ahead of BE its one of the reasons i switched from my sorc to the nightblade

Flaminir · August 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

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Flaminir wrote: »

No... its called 'different classes have different mechanics'. Otherwise they would all be the same & then whats the point in classes!

The game has had classes since day 1 of release... I'm not sure what relevance the pre-release development process is here. There are always changes pre-release... hence the name 'development'. There are 100's of things that will be very fundamentally different to early beta.

Personally I like classes... this is an MMO (mostly), not Skyrim / single player.

The mistake a lot of people make is that they expect classes to be identical & think that if there is a difference then thats 'Unbalanced'. (Why doesn't X class have Y ability' etc) They aren't & never will be. Thats the whole point that there ARE differences.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Doesn't matter how tanky your class is against 10 people you die... unless your a nb or sorc.

Even as a Sorc or NB as on average there will be people in a group of 10 who know how to counter sorcs & NB's. EG somebody will have caltrops to reveal a NB... and people will have their nice 28metre gap closers, so when a Sorc bolts 15metres they just get charged down unless they are very good.

And if they do get away... so what? That's part of their class. If somebody runs away then they haven't killed you & haven't won.

eNumbra · August 2015

tplink3r1 wrote: »

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eNumbra wrote: »

Because they're different classes with different intentions.

DKs were designed as the tank class, Temps the healer class, NBs are the rouge-ish class. if you don't like it, play another class.

It hurts when i read things like that.

Yes, the one class that has a whole branch dedicated to healing - obviously I'm wrong and Zenimax didn't design the Templar as the base for Healers. (regardless of whether or not they make the best or their skills are balanced at the time you're reading this, you'll note i used the word intention)

I bet it hurts to read a coloring book too.

Troneon · August 2015

It is pretty funny, NB ands sorc tank better, do more damage and can move way faster...plus leave a fight whenever they like....perma survival mode...

NB and Sorc are just too strong on PTS right now..

Only thing Templars got was good healing and slow casting times, can't leave a fight once your in it...

DK's atleast got good damage, tank and more gap closers...

Master_Kas · August 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

everybody can shield stack, not just sorc

1 skill is 1h/sword
1 skill is light armor
1 skill is sorc
1 skill are DKs

Please no class does shieldstacking as good as sorc.
Because DK/temp shields scale of max health not of max magicka like hardened ward does (in live : 4-5k blazing/ignesious vs 11+k hardened ward)

mrskinskull · August 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sorc can teleport half of cyrodiil

Nb's can instant invisable and travel faster in sneak than i can run and get away.

You must stand while the cowards run.

Tankqull · August 2015

Master_Kas wrote: »

show previous quotes

Artemiisia wrote: »

everybody can shield stack, not just sorc

1 skill is 1h/sword
1 skill is light armor
1 skill is sorc
1 skill are DKs

Please no class does shieldstacking as good as sorc.
Because DK/temp shields scale of max health not of max magicka like hardened ward does (in live : 4-5k blazing/ignesious vs 11+k hardened ward)

hardend ward is not the problem, healing ward is it as it synergizes to well by beeing protected from dmg for the heal on sorcs.

biovitalb16_ESO · August 2015

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Because they are more beefy/tankish classes than others geared more towards sustained fights when 1 shot willies.

BUT this is why vampire is popular with those 2 classes.

LOL what planet are you on?

Korah_Eaglecry · August 2015

eNumbra wrote: »

Because they're different classes with different intentions.

DKs were designed as the tank class, Temps the healer class, NBs are the rouge-ish class. if you don't like it, play another class.

Theyre different classes with the ability to fullfill different intentions.

Aneima · August 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sorc can teleport half of cyrodiil

Nb's can instant invisable and travel faster in sneak than i can run and get away.

The same reason that Superman can fly and Spider-Man can climb and swing from buildings. That's how it is. Each class has it's own abilites that make each it's own. It's bad enough that any class can use heavy,medium,light armor or any 2 hand or duel welding weapons. What do you propose? Every class needs to have the same exact abilites? I swear the downfall of a mmorpg will be the ridiculous ideas of the players and the game companies who listen to them.

Oh yeah almost forgot use you some invisability and movement speed potions to feel extra special.

Paradox · August 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

show previous quotes

eNumbra wrote: »

Because they're different classes with different intentions.

DKs were designed as the tank class, Temps the healer class, NBs are the rouge-ish class. if you don't like it, play another class.

'Tank' with no stamina regen when blocking, very tanky indeed.

It's simply called unbalance.

Make real feedback. It's on the pts for a reason.

Aunatar · August 2015

Oh my, has the nerf crying NB army come here to defend the class from the nerf hammer of what? Looks like stamrollerblades couldn't do enough dmg with a 50 points ultimate :'D

Aunatar · August 2015

P.S. hard ward is only 9-10k now, not 13+

timidobserver · August 2015

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Because they are more beefy/tankish classes than others geared more towards sustained fights when 1 shot willies.

BUT this is why vampire is popular with those 2 classes.

On live Sorcs are the tankiest class and have the most effective escape.

technohic · August 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

As Templars, we don't run away...we chaaarrggeee in!!

ChaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaàaaaaaAaaAaaAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasaaaaaaaaarge!

Oh. Sorry about that. I got stuck in animation.