serjomalekrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Been messing around for hours ganking people in IC on a magica DK heavy armor tank , and there is ZERO problem with blocking now. perma blockers are a rare thing in there , and EVERYONE have anough stamina to block WHAT IS NEEDED TO BE BLOCKED , like Uppercut..... now little noobs you all have to calculate youre blocks rather than permablocking and casting poop at enemies , THIS IS BALANCED , DEAL WITH IT.

Go tank Nerien'eth and 4 wraiths and Kinlord Rillis and 3 Daedroth while spending stamina on taunting and other attacks. Most of us are good with the PvP end of the change but it leaves much to be desired in PvE. I'm guessing you don't tank though. It should be Cyrodiil only.

I was Taling about the PvP side of this. as for PvE , you might say its hard now , and maybe you are right , but from being a TANK in most other mmo's the TANK is not suppose to pull it all off by himself , in every game when i tanked a raid boss or just a normal dungeon boss , it was always up to my team to help the tank push beyond his capabilities ......


in ESO , you have templars that can help you recover stamina , others can give you great HoTs , damage shields , and other stuff..... to keep you alive while you regenerate......
so to the PvE players , guys , there are alot of ways to survive this change , this will require more tactics and teamwork....
i see this as a great thing......

serjomalekrwb17_ESO wrote: »

in ESO , you have templars that can help you recover stamina , others can give you great HoTs , damage shields , and other stuff..... to keep you alive while you regenerate......
so to the PvE players , guys , there are alot of ways to survive this change , this will require more tactics and teamwork....
i see this as a great thing......

Well, you're going on record for saying this is a great thing to happen for PvE tanking. You will now be public enemy number one. Congrats!

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

serjomalekrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I was Taling about the PvP side of this. as for PvE , you might say its hard now , and maybe you are right , but from being a TANK in most other mmo's the TANK is not suppose to pull it all off by himself , in every game when i tanked a raid boss or just a normal dungeon boss , it was always up to my team to help the tank push beyond his capabilities ......


in ESO , you have templars that can help you recover stamina , others can give you great HoTs , damage shields , and other stuff..... to keep you alive while you regenerate......
so to the PvE players , guys , there are alot of ways to survive this change , this will require more tactics and teamwork....
i see this as a great thing......

What if the healer isn't a Templar? 1.6 allowed other class healers to thrive, but now...now all healers will be Templars again. And again, Templars become the slaves.

There's master resto staff + spamming healing springs, stam pots etc ....

also, only block the very needed attacks / abilities?

Aimelin wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

serjomalekrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I was Taling about the PvP side of this. as for PvE , you might say its hard now , and maybe you are right , but from being a TANK in most other mmo's the TANK is not suppose to pull it all off by himself , in every game when i tanked a raid boss or just a normal dungeon boss , it was always up to my team to help the tank push beyond his capabilities ......


in ESO , you have templars that can help you recover stamina , others can give you great HoTs , damage shields , and other stuff..... to keep you alive while you regenerate......
so to the PvE players , guys , there are alot of ways to survive this change , this will require more tactics and teamwork....
i see this as a great thing......

What if the healer isn't a Templar? 1.6 allowed other class healers to thrive, but now...now all healers will be Templars again. And again, Templars become the slaves.

There's master resto staff + spamming healing springs, stam pots etc ....

also, only block the very needed attacks / abilities?

Of course all good healers use Master Restos, what else would we use? The stamina restore ticks, however, are not that powerful, and in situations like in Sanctum, where BoL spamming is very much needed from the Templar healers in the group in key situations such as when the tank has the heavy bleed hemorrhage and during the popcorn stages of Mantikora, spamming healing springs isn't the way to go at all times. Sure, tanks can use stam pots, and will, and Templar healers can throw shards, as we already do. The concern here is the healers who don't have all that. What THEN are they going to add to anything? No one is going to want a non-templar healer.
And again, block the very needed attacks on Mantikora? K. lol.

Like has been mentioned before (and here I was thinking I was witty... *groans and sips coffee*) the lack of stamina regen whilst blocking could somehow be factored into heavy armor. Allow for full stamina regen when wearing 5 pieces of heavy or something along those lines. It would have the added bonus of making heavy far less obsolete. (Besides for adding one piece of it to your gear for the undaunted passive...)

Here's an idea, keep the no stamina regen while blocking, but allow you to partially block with no stamina. Say with less damage reduction and no putting your enemy off balance. Numbers would need to be tweaked, but it would encourage you to try to keep your stamina up without being devastating if you can't.

Preyfar wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

I think a 50% reduction in stam regen is much more reasonable.
They won't leave us as is, but the proposed 0 stam regen when blocking seems insane and overboard. Maybe they'll tweak this.

That's been my thoughts. 50% stam reduction makes more sense, and doesn't make tanks useless when it comes to Trials (especially AA). Those axes...

If you want a cheap and dirty solution that is better than zero regen while still holding onto that warm feel of a cheap and dirty solution, simply realize that your goal is to make sure that the stamina cost for blocking per unit of time must always be greater than the stamina regeneration during that same unit of time. Armed with that, you simply say that stamina regeneration while holding block is capped at X% of the cost per unit time to maintain the block. This allows stamina regeneration during block, tunes it by level, takes into account champion points, armor, etc, and still prevents permanent blocking.

lordrichter wrote: »

If you want a cheap and dirty solution that is better than zero regen while still holding onto that warm feel of a cheap and dirty solution, simply realize that your goal is to make sure that the stamina cost for blocking per unit of time must always be greater than the stamina regeneration during that same unit of time. Armed with that, you simply say that stamina regeneration while holding block is capped at X% of the cost per unit time to maintain the block. This allows stamina regeneration during block, tunes it by level, takes into account champion points, armor, etc, and still prevents permanent blocking.

Cheap and dirty is better than the nuclear nerf.

There's a lot of other solutions out there, too (e.g. stamina regen drops off the longer you hold up your shield or is based on how much damage you block). I don't have any tanks, and I'm usually the DPS fighting perma-blockers in Cyrodiil. I'm one of the people who wanted a solution, but even I think the proposed solution is overkill and outright ludicrous.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Sorry to sound blunt but um... Learn to tank ... Yea kinda a easy answer.

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I agree, but I do think reducing stamina regeneration is a good idea, by 100% is silly, 50% is much fairer I think.

Yeah, I don't get it, I mean anyone with a finger on the pulse of the current meta of the game would know that the vast majority of PvE tanks do not just hold block and taunt. Many of us swing light attacks in, throw down heroic slash, roll dodge, and move the monster around.

One of two things is happening internally when they made this change; either they really believed what they were saying -in which case, please fire your QA, they're obviously out of touch yes men- or they lied.

I don't want to say either is the case, but I can't imagine any other scenario.

Stamina Regeneration does not need to be reduced to 0 while blocking, it serves absolutely no benefit to the non-PvP content in the game.

I'm consistently surprised at the terrible suggestions that people have when it comes to defending this change.

Templar Shards

Yes, Templars have Spear Shards. Yes, it grants stamina to the person who synergizes with it. Yes, it will help a tank out. However, there has been pretty consistent outcry about the superiority of Templar healers compared to non-Templars. To that end, Restoration staff has been buffed and Templar heals has been nerfed. And yet, the suggestion here is to once again require Templar healers.

Of course, many would say, "Any Templar can throw shards, healer or not." True, any Templar can indeed use that skill. However, when I'm DPS-ing, I'm rarely ever in a place to be providing support to the group. And I'm relatively certain that you don't want me to stop killing that heavy sacrifice on the west in vDSA so I can run over to the tank and provide a shard.

Makes Tanking Better/Fun/Interesting/etc

I have one main problem with this argument. If you are actually bored during tanking, why not just drop block now? Why do you need this change? Maybe you are indeed doing this, I don't know, and you're more than welcome to have a go at me for assuming things. Still, why must the rest of us who don't want this change be inconvenienced by those who refuse to drop block on live, then complain that it's too boring? Maybe you can try it the next time you're staring down Mantikora.

Just Use <Insert DK/NB skill here> to Regain Stamina

I'm sorry, but if you hadn't heard, Templars are f**ing awesome tanks. What are we supposed to do about our stamina? And if you say Shards, I'm going to have an aneurism. Chugging pots works, though it's not exactly sustainable. Repentance works, though only if there are bodies. Engine Guardian might work, if you can get the right proc. Perhaps the next time I've got 4 axes on me, I'll pray to the RNG gods that the combination of these things works to keep me going.

For PvE, there is simply no argument that I can see where 0 stamina regeneration is somehow the answer tanks have been seeking. It's been said before, but when I tank, I'm never just standing around waiting for things to die with my shield in front of me. I'm constantly on the lookout for my team, panning the camera around, checking health levels, checking who's taking too much heat, reapplying taunts, CC-ing, roll dodging, bashing, etc. To me, it's one of the most dynamic and fun roles in the game, and I just can't see the point of affecting PvE tanks by crippling our most precious resource.

As a tank, I found this nerf to be completely ludicrous. I just tried the new tower vet dungeon and with 27k stam, I was out in less than ten seconds. And bosses can just one shot you, so it's not like you can really weave hvy attack worth a *** in the fights.

I'm rethinking being a tank at all unless they figure out something because this *** is a joke. One of those new big monsters basically drained half my stam pool with one block.