F7sus4 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You are simply wrong. I suggest you go do some testing on the pts.

The numbers are never wrong and the tests were already made (which I'd prefer instead of unthinkingly repeating other people's guess-based opinions).

Character Power vs CP invested:

The initial statements were:

• Characters get overwhelming majority of their CP-related power around 300-360 CP (all 3 color-trees with 100CP+ each)
• Therefore only the first 300-360 CPs are dead-crucial to get the most benefit
• Therefore additional CP above 300-360CP threshold are not really that important

I. Blue Trees - DPS output:

For purpose of this test we're maxing:
1) Main DPS boosting CP: Thaumaturge (for +25% damage output at 100CP invested)
2) Staff Expert afterwards for Staff-weaving (after reaching 100CP above)
3) Spell Erosion afterwards for additional damage bonus (abv.)

(Note: The test-character is a Magicka Nightblade with ca. 2000 Spell Damage and ca. 35000 Magicka)

Funnel Health with Staff-weaving output:


Full DPS rotation with Staff-weaving output:


II. Red Trees - Damage Mitigation and Utility:

For purpose of this test we're maxing:
1) Main DPS mitigating CP: Elemental Defender (for Elemental DMG) or Hardy (for Magicka/Poison)
2) Secondary DPS mitigating CP: Spell Shield (after reaching 100CP for max of -25% bonus).

(Note: The character is 5/1/1 Light/Medium/Heavy build, ca. 10k Spell Resistance and getting hit by Concealed Weapon using mirror character; 50% Spell Crit)



III. Green Trees - Cost Reduction and Regeneration:

For purpose of this test we're maxing:
1) Main Cost Reduction CP: Magician (for -25% bonus, maxed)
2) Main Stat Regenetaion CP: Arcanist (for +25 bonus, maxed and assuming this is needed at all)

(Note: The spell of choice was Sap Essence; two Cost Reduction enchantments on jewerly)



IV. Conclusion:

• You're getting the most benefits up to 300-360 CP.
• All CP above mentioned threshold give mostly a slight increase in character's power - be it +300CP or +900CP.

V. Additional comments related to discussion:

• Unexperienced/casual player is not likely be saved by the bonuses granted above 300-360CP threshold alone (Player Skill > Character Power).
• Unexperienced/casual player is likely be saved by having the very first 300-360CP passive bonuses unlocked.
• Unexperienced/casual players will eventually reach 300-360CPs (possible by September/October 2015 by using enlightenment pool only).
• Obviously, different character setups would focus on different CP passives, thus provide different feedback. The reason for the charts is to provide general visual feedback for CP-amount invested versus Power Gained curves progress.

Thank you for your time!

Awesome post man. Unfortunately it wont matter.

There are some people who no matter what the number say every single time they engage they will be thinking about the opponents champion points. That's the real problem. These are the same people who yell hacks all the time. You know them they are in your TS. Some may be your friends.

They are not bad people, they just tick in a different way. If CPs were ever removed, let's say a CP off campaign, if they got hit really hard or couldn't kill a guy, CPs would still be in the back of their mind. Part of them will think "This guy found a way to have is CPs on! There's now way!" For these people the cats already out the bag.

TheBull wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

You are simply wrong. I suggest you go do some testing on the pts.

The numbers are never wrong and the tests were already made (which I'd prefer instead of unthinkingly repeating other people's guess-based opinions).

Character Power vs CP invested:

The initial statements were:

• Characters get overwhelming majority of their CP-related power around 300-360 CP (all 3 color-trees with 100CP+ each)
• Therefore only the first 300-360 CPs are dead-crucial to get the most benefit
• Therefore additional CP above 300-360CP threshold are not really that important

I. Blue Trees - DPS output:

For purpose of this test we're maxing:
1) Main DPS boosting CP: Thaumaturge (for +25% damage output at 100CP invested)
2) Staff Expert afterwards for Staff-weaving (after reaching 100CP above)
3) Spell Erosion afterwards for additional damage bonus (abv.)

(Note: The test-character is a Magicka Nightblade with ca. 2000 Spell Damage and ca. 35000 Magicka)

Funnel Health with Staff-weaving output:


Full DPS rotation with Staff-weaving output:


II. Red Trees - Damage Mitigation and Utility:

For purpose of this test we're maxing:
1) Main DPS mitigating CP: Elemental Defender (for Elemental DMG) or Hardy (for Magicka/Poison)
2) Secondary DPS mitigating CP: Spell Shield (after reaching 100CP for max of -25% bonus).

(Note: The character is 5/1/1 Light/Medium/Heavy build, ca. 10k Spell Resistance and getting hit by Concealed Weapon using mirror character; 50% Spell Crit)



III. Green Trees - Cost Reduction and Regeneration:

For purpose of this test we're maxing:
1) Main Cost Reduction CP: Magician (for -25% bonus, maxed)
2) Main Stat Regenetaion CP: Arcanist (for +25 bonus, maxed and assuming this is needed at all)

(Note: The spell of choice was Sap Essence; two Cost Reduction enchantments on jewerly)



IV. Conclusion:

• You're getting the most benefits up to 300-360 CP.
• All CP above mentioned threshold give mostly a slight increase in character's power - be it +300CP or +900CP.

V. Additional comments related to discussion:

• Unexperienced/casual player is not likely be saved by the bonuses granted above 300-360CP threshold alone (Player Skill > Character Power).
• Unexperienced/casual player is likely be saved by having the very first 300-360CP passive bonuses unlocked.
• Unexperienced/casual players will eventually reach 300-360CPs (possible by September/October 2015 by using enlightenment pool only).
• Obviously, different character setups would focus on different CP passives, thus provide different feedback. The reason for the charts is to provide general visual feedback for CP-amount invested versus Power Gained curves progress.

Thank you for your time!

Awesome post man. Unfortunately it wont matter.

There are some people who no matter what the number say every single time they engage they will be thinking about the opponents champion points. That's the real problem. These are the same people who yell hacks all the time. You know them they are in your TS. Some may be your friends.

They are not bad people, they just tick in a different way. If CPs were ever removed, let's say a CP off campaign, if they got hit really hard or couldn't kill a guy, CPs would still be in the back of their mind. Part of them will think "This guy found a way to have is CPs on! There's now way!" For these people the cats already out the bag.

Assumptions and generalisations again. No reasons not to have a cp free campaign here.

The charts don't tell the whole story, and if they did I still wouldn't have 360 cp for YEARS. XP boosters could have sped this up, but ZOS cleverly placed these out of my reach while pretty much having them free to multiple character grinders. That's why this power balance issue has become a problem so fast and will rapidly worsen for casual players every day.

Having 1 veteran campaign without cps is clearly something a lot of people are interested in, and it won't affect the grinders.

corwinDA wrote: »

All the people signing in that hate this idea seem to not understand that op is asking if you "would" not saying zeni please turn cp off for all pvp. I would like both to be honest a cp pvp and no cp pvp. How can you hate just an optional addition so much unless you were either a major grinder that took the time to build an overload of cp or a pc port to console that had bot farmed your overload and want to keep your edge over the new players. Honestly not one of the people who have said no gave a legitimate reason why this addition is a bad idea they just defend the get gud attitude but let me keep my advantage.

"How can you hate just an optional addition so much"

We could have a whole OP on just that. I have yet to come across a gaming community with folks such as this one. It's the oddest thing to me to have so many people that want "less" people to buy, play, and love the game.

I don't mean the supposedly optional argument we have over something like clothing...that's forced on everyone to see it.

But optional UI features, and optional playground (CP-less campaign) you didn't have to visit, and anything else that A- not being included actually makes players quit (and) B- effects other players in no shape or form...the fight against them is astounding.

I think too many players are simply stuck in TES mindframe and not MMO mindframe. To be successful, and continue to produce quality, a MMO needs to appeal to as many as possible...options provide that.

There should be an option, but I personally wouldn't play on it