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PVE forced to PVP never turns out well

Azalin76
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For those of you who have ever played WoW and have done the holiday pvp achievements will understand this. If you had never done any pvp then it was a nightmare because you basically just feed the other team and spend most of your time dead. If you did pvp then you realize how boring it was to kill another player who has no idea what to do to fight back that you feel you may as well just be hitting a practice dummy because they don't fight back and die in 3 hits because they don't know how to defend themselves against another player.

I have a feeling that this is how the IC is going to play out most of the time.
  • Samadhi
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    Azalin76 wrote: »
    ... If you had never done any pvp then it was a nightmare because you basically just feed the other team and spend most of your time dead. ...

    m9rS2Vt.jpg
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
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    How well does being forced to PvE just to be competative in PvP turn out?

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]
    Edited by ZOS_Racheal on July 19, 2015 12:55PM
  • RedTalon
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    It's been known for ages that IC would be a mix of pvp/ove never understand why so many are shocked
  • Azalin76
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    I think ppl are shocked because it's a stand alone dlc, I personally expected it to be part of a bigger dlc that would also add on a whole new map zone for pve and exploration, not just opening up a city on a map that already exists. I'm not sure I see the value in it for what they are charging, but to each their own. I will give it my best shot and hope for the best, if it sucks then hopefully the next one will be better.
  • Soulshine
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    RedTalon wrote: »
    It's been known for ages that IC would be a mix of pvp/ove never understand why so many are shocked

    There is shock in some quaters because some people are very new to the game and not aware of the past development news and history.

    That said, the OP and anyone else for that matter..., who insist this is "forcing them" into doing content they don't want to do need to own up to their own choices ffs. You cannot have it both ways. If you don't like what is coming then make a decision about what you will or will not do but you really need to stop blaming the content for your own choices on how to deal with it.

    Those of us here since launch have been waiting around for any new zones to the game since last summer and upper Craglorn being opened up - yes it's been a year already. Take this update a breath of life for a game struggling along on the same tired string of options. Its nice some new ones are being added finally.
  • pppontus
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    deleted
    Edited by pppontus on July 17, 2023 7:09AM
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    The shock is not IC is a pvp area. The shock is they allow other players to kill you and loot you. That was not expected. The killing part yes it was. Not the looting everything you earned part. I mean what game has that kind of nonsense anymore?
    Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on July 19, 2015 4:27AM
  • RazzPitazz
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    R don't have enough information to assume they will force this on people. We need the other half of the update information before we can sharpen pitchforks.
    If it is true after we receive more information, I will offer sharpening tools at discount prices.
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  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    RazzPitazz wrote: »
    R don't have enough information to assume they will force this on people. We need the other half of the update information before we can sharpen pitchforks.
    If it is true after we receive more information, I will offer sharpening tools at discount prices.

    IC is in the middle of the pvp zone. Everyone knew pvp would be happening there. What we didnt know was this TV system would be written so that players can kill and loot your stones. That is what the outrage is and we already know this. We dont need the other half of the update. We know this from the ESO live episode.
  • bowmanz607
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    RazzPitazz wrote: »
    R don't have enough information to assume they will force this on people. We need the other half of the update information before we can sharpen pitchforks.
    If it is true after we receive more information, I will offer sharpening tools at discount prices.

    IC is in the middle of the pvp zone. Everyone knew pvp would be happening there. What we didnt know was this TV system would be written so that players can kill and loot your stones. That is what the outrage is and we already know this. We dont need the other half of the update. We know this from the ESO live episode.

    there are ways to get them without being looted. as a pvp player i love the extra adreniline this will give. also, consequences to dying. I love it
  • pppontus
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    deleted
    Edited by pppontus on July 17, 2023 7:09AM
  • Tandor
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    pppontus wrote: »
    The shock is not IC is a pvp area. The shock is they allow other players to kill you and loot you. That was not expected. The killing part yes it was. Not the looting everything you earned part. I mean what game has that kind of nonsense anymore?

    Isn't it refreshing that a game finally moves away from the carebear easymode style of play and introduces a gameplay mechanic that makes death actually matter more than a 20 second horse ride (at most)?

    Just don't even go there if you can't handle that little bit of risk..

    Yes indeed, it's great - from a PvP perspective. Gating the new PvE content behind the PvP isn't so great - from a PvE perspective.
  • Kronosphere
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    Tandor wrote: »
    pppontus wrote: »
    The shock is not IC is a pvp area. The shock is they allow other players to kill you and loot you. That was not expected. The killing part yes it was. Not the looting everything you earned part. I mean what game has that kind of nonsense anymore?

    Isn't it refreshing that a game finally moves away from the carebear easymode style of play and introduces a gameplay mechanic that makes death actually matter more than a 20 second horse ride (at most)?

    Just don't even go there if you can't handle that little bit of risk..

    Yes indeed, it's great - from a PvP perspective. Gating the new PvE content behind the PvP isn't so great - from a PvE perspective.

    its not freaking gated. all you have to do is find the dungeon and bam u never have to pvp again as u can port straight there and get your tv stones.... plz just stop man
    ~House Indoril~
    Submit to the three, the spirits and thy lords.

  • strikeback1247
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    Maybe we should just wait for it to hit the PTS and see what it's like there? If a lot of the players don't seem to enjoy it on the PTS, I'm sure things will change. I as a PvE and PvP player am really excited for IC though.
    P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!
  • PBpsy
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    Y U NO WANT TO GET GANKED?
    Y U NO GET GANKED FUNNY?
    Edited by PBpsy on July 19, 2015 8:17AM
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  • Elloa
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    Disclaimer: I'm a PVE carebear that sucks in PVP.

    No one is forced to PVP if you do not like it.
    As I explain in this video, IMPERIAL CITY offers plenty of really cool stuff for PVErs.

    lLBnWFm.jpg

    Two new Dungeons is alone something great and worth to buy the DLC. Those Dungeon will provide you with enough reward that you may even want to farm TelVar stones.
    You will most likely be able to buy the TelVar stoines items and crafting materials via Trading Guild that are being sold by players farming them.

    So really this is a NON ISSUE.
    Edited by Elloa on July 19, 2015 8:32AM
  • Tandor
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    Elloa wrote: »
    Disclaimer: I'm a PVE carebear that sucks in PVP.

    No one is forced to PVP if you do not like it.
    As I explain in this video, IMPERIAL CITY offers plenty of really cool stuff for PVErs.

    lLBnWFm.jpg

    Two new Dungeons is alone something great and worth to buy the DLC. Those Dungeon will provide you with enough reward that you may even want to farm TelVar stones.
    You will most likely be able to buy the TelVar stoines items and crafting materials via Trading Guild that are being sold by players farming them.

    So really this is a NON ISSUE.

    Outside of 2 new dungeons it is very much an issue. The substantial remaining areas of Imperial City will not be accessible without engaging in PvP, and that is a valid concern for those PvEers who have zero interest in PvP and who place open world exploration and questing above repeating group dungeons or relying on trading guilds to supply high level gear, and for whom there are currently no other means of advancing to VR16.
  • Sausage
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    Nothing in IC is permanent, new gears come and go. Just keep grinding CPs if thats so big deal for you. You dont need to buy Imperial City.
    Edited by Sausage on July 19, 2015 8:48AM
  • Tandor
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    Tandor wrote: »
    pppontus wrote: »
    The shock is not IC is a pvp area. The shock is they allow other players to kill you and loot you. That was not expected. The killing part yes it was. Not the looting everything you earned part. I mean what game has that kind of nonsense anymore?

    Isn't it refreshing that a game finally moves away from the carebear easymode style of play and introduces a gameplay mechanic that makes death actually matter more than a 20 second horse ride (at most)?

    Just don't even go there if you can't handle that little bit of risk..

    Yes indeed, it's great - from a PvP perspective. Gating the new PvE content behind the PvP isn't so great - from a PvE perspective.

    its not freaking gated. all you have to do is find the dungeon and bam u never have to pvp again as u can port straight there and get your tv stones.... plz just stop man

    There is far more to Imperial City's PvE content than the two dungeons, and it is gated behind PvP.

    I'm delighted that new PvP content is being added, but it's a mistake to mix it with PvE as the two never work well together.
    Edited by Tandor on July 19, 2015 8:48AM
  • ADarklore
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    its not freaking gated. all you have to do is find the dungeon and bam u never have to pvp again as u can port straight there and get your tv stones.... plz just stop man

    Why do people keep thinking that PvE content in IC is ONLY the dungeons? There are PvE quests within IC itself that may be blocked depending on how they eventually decide to gate it... whether it be your alliance must control six keeps, three, or access without controlling any.
    CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
    ~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~
  • Septimus_Magna
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    Its PVPers being forced to PVE, its in Cyrodiil which is the only PVP area in the game.
    If you dont want to PVP dont go to Cyrodiil, if you do come prepared to fight players.
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  • Elloa
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    Its PVPers being forced to PVE, its in Cyrodiil which is the only PVP area in the game.
    If you dont want to PVP dont go to Cyrodiil, if you do come prepared to fight players.

    I have to agree with that.
    If those that think that 2 new Dungeons with normal and vet mode, and probably like 16 - 24 new bosses is not enough for them... Well do not buy Imperial CIty.
    There is NOTHING shocking with that. The number of time where PVPer weere like "Great, another Dungeon! Great, Another Craglorn! Great, guild tabards and dies! And what about PVP?"
    I'm very happy for PVPer, I think they will have a blast!

    And as PVE Carebear I think I'll have a blast too. And if I don't, well, I'll avoid the Imperial CIty and just enjoy myself in theDungeons. NO BIG DEAL


    Edited by Elloa on July 19, 2015 9:17AM
  • jircris11
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    Sadly IC will not be an update i will be able to enjoy. i stick to PVE due to health reasons so any PVP in it will not allow me to participate. oh well maybe the update after that one will be more in my area.
    IGN: Ki'rah
    Khajiit/Vampire
    DC/AD faction/NA server.
    RPer
  • Atlaz
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    Never played WOW but I did play Knights Online, ESO reminds me a lot of that game.
    "Bretons are renowned and talented craftsmen, shrewd merchants, gallant cavaliers, and inventive wizards. They can also be proud and quarrelsome."
  • Somakarma
    Somakarma
    Not the looting everything you earned part. I mean what game has that kind of nonsense anymore?

    Ark, DayZ, Rust, Eve Online... To name just a few.
  • Rosveen
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    Elloa wrote: »
    Its PVPers being forced to PVE, its in Cyrodiil which is the only PVP area in the game.
    If you dont want to PVP dont go to Cyrodiil, if you do come prepared to fight players.

    I have to agree with that.
    If those that think that 2 new Dungeons with normal and vet mode, and probably like 16 - 24 new bosses is not enough for them... Well do not buy Imperial CIty.
    There is NOTHING shocking with that. The number of time where PVPer weere like "Great, another Dungeon! Great, Another Craglorn! Great, guild tabards and dies! And what about PVP?"
    I'm very happy for PVPer, I think they will have a blast!

    And as PVE Carebear I think I'll have a blast too. And if I don't, well, I'll avoid the Imperial CIty and just enjoy myself in theDungeons. NO BIG DEAL

    I'm fine with it too, I just won't buy or will buy only for the dungeons. But there are issues I recognize and you should too. For example, raising the level and gear cap without giving us meaningful PvE content. Last time ZOS raised the cap by two ranks, we received half a zone. Now we get two dungeons. Not quite comparable. PvP is emergent gameplay, players are their own content, but PvE doesn't work this way.

    And the design of the TV stone circulation. They aren't a reward for PvP, not truly. They can't be generated by PvP. Maybe ZOS genuinely thinks this is how a mixed PvEvP zone should work. Or maybe they exploit our content starvation to bait PvE-ers into going to the IC, earning stones and becoming TV pinatas for the PvPers. And they giggle when they talk about it.

    And of course a fact unrelated to Imperial City design itself, but a cause of this forum war nonetheless: Orsinium won't come out before Christmas, making it over a year without a PvE content update. Less than two years since launch. After ZOS promised updates every 4-6 weeks. I'm very happy to see PvPers finally get new content, but the release schedule is still questionable. All would be well if both PvP and PvE players received a fun new playground.
    Edited by Rosveen on July 19, 2015 10:31AM
  • SIXR_sCaR
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    58184969.jpg
    Edited by SIXR_sCaR on July 19, 2015 11:29AM
  • kevlarto_ESO
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    I want to read the forums after some of the folks that think the risk is a great thing, I wonder how that is going to work when they lose stones a few times, I started playing mmo's before they even had graphics and later on games like EQ some of the raids were a weekend events, corpse runs, get a coffin and a necromancer, no Ventrilo huge amount of people typing, yes times have changed hardcore today is not hardcore gaming of yesterday, and I am glad of that been there done that.
    I guess we will pan out, my gut tells me after about two month the IC will be a ghost town, because of all the griefing which no one finds fun.

    I pvp everyday, and I am not thinking of myself here but more for the overall health of the game.
  • Azalin76
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    I played ultima online for a while when it first came out so I know first hand what it's like to play hard core games. Things have changed a lot over the years and the biggest thing I'm still getting used to is the instant resurrection. I remember having to run around after I died and having to find another player to res me (which that player couldn't even understand me because I could only speak ghost, plus not every player knew how to resurrect and they needed mats to cast the spell). Meanwhile my body is being looted by whoever killed me literally taking all of my armor and weapons and anything else I'm carrying including money. So players stealing my stones is not really a complaint, like the title says it's the fact that not everyone is really capable of doing pvp so getting ganked by other players while trying to pve can be completely devastating to some players. I would have liked to see them release this as a full pvp dlc where players could use these stones to buy pvp specific gear and pvp specific crafting supplies. Then players could truly choose not to purchase this dlc if they don't want to pvp. The fact that the new VR 16 gear will only be obtained in a pvp zone will only hinder those trying to only pve. Also as I said it's not as much fun for those who do pvp because you have a ton of inexperienced players in a pvp zone who will be easy targets. This will only reinforce behavior for those out there that feel that things should just be handed to them with little effort. Can you imagine all of those who have grinded out a few hundred cp going to IC and taking out a group of 10-20 inexperienced players by themselves and gaining a few dozen stones? It will be a cake walk to them and they will laugh all the way to the bank, meanwhile that group will either never go to IC again, or quit the game because one player murdered 20 ppl by himself easily, or they will be here on the forums making thread after thread to complain about how unfair the system is. After all is said and done Zos will probably change it all because of too many complaints and in turn just create more complaints and more players leaving for other games. I love this game and will try anything they throw at me but the CP system will ultimately break this new content. Just look at how many people are complaining already about the CP system destroying pvp, how will robbing other players not make that worse?
    Edited by Azalin76 on July 19, 2015 12:11PM
  • DDuke
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    Azalin76 wrote: »
    I played ultima online for a while when it first came out so I know first hand what it's like to play hard core games. Things have changed a lot over the years and the biggest thing I'm still getting used to is the instant resurrection. I remember having to run around after I died and having to find another player to res me (which that player couldn't even understand me because I could only speak ghost, plus not every player knew how to resurrect and they needed mats to cast the spell). Meanwhile my body is being looted by whoever killed me literally taking all of my armor and weapons and anything else I'm carrying including money. So players stealing my stones is not really a complaint, like the title says it's the fact that not everyone is really capable of doing pvp so getting ganked by other players while trying to pve can be completely devastating to some players. I would have liked to see them release this as a full pvp dlc where players could use these stones to buy pvp specific gear and pvp specific crafting supplies. Then players could truly choose not to purchase this dlc if they don't want to pvp. The fact that the new VR 16 gear will only be obtained in a pvp zone will only hinder those trying to only pve. Also as I said it's not as much fun for those who do pvp because you have a ton of inexperienced players in a pvp zone who will be easy targets. This will only reinforce behavior for those out there that feel that things should just be handed to them with little effort. Can you imagine all of those who have grinded out a few hundred cp going to IC and taking out a group of 10-20 inexperienced players by themselves and gaining a few dozen stones? It will be a cake walk to them and they will laugh all the way to the bank, meanwhile that group will either never go to IC again, or quit the game because one player murdered 20 ppl by himself easily, or they will be here on the forums making thread after thread to complain about how unfair the system is. After all is said and done Zos will probably change it all because of too many complaints and in turn just create more complaints and more players leaving for other games. I love this game and will try anything they throw at me but the CP system will ultimately break this new content. Just look at how many people are complaining already about the CP system destroying pvp, how will robbing other players not make that worse?

    25f74234c0c89beba7a8db1c0a2574d3.jpeg


    But from what I managed to salvage from that, here's a few facts for you:
    • This system, contrary to the popular belief, is not getting applied to every PvE/PvP zone in game. You can continue risk free PvE & PvP in other environs.
    • The gear purchased with TV stones might very well be PvP specific, no one knows yet. It could also be BoE, meaning you can purchase it (personally I would find BoE gear to diminish the system & incentive of doing the content though).
    • That new gear can only be obtained in a PvP zone is a false statement. They are revamping every gear set in game, and scaling every dungeon to V16. Also, they are releasing two completely new group dungeons which will drop new V16 gear sets (confirmed by ZOS).
    • If there is a player with "few hundred cp" that can take 10-20 inexperienced players by him/herself, then there is bound to be the same kind of players on the other factions as well, meaning you run the risk of running to another competent player, or simply too many inexperienced ones for you to handle. Most common PvPers should be easily dealt with by just 5-6 inexperienced PvErs with low CPs, it's the good ones that might require more (or good players on your side as well).
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