PVE forced to PVP never turns out well

Schnuffles

Heres a shocker. It isnt FORCED pvp.. its optional. simply don't go into cyrodil. Its alot like choosing NOT to do the quests out there. sure the pve content is there, but you dont have to do it. you have a confused concept on what forced really is. I suggest you look into other MMO's such as Aion. THAT was FORCED pvp. They had zones you had to go through as a pve player just to finish the storylines and low level people where getting ganked so badly by high levels that would jump through "portals" that spawned, and there was no restriction on level. so a level 5 could be constantly killed by a level 45 at anytime and unlike WoW there was no designated pvp or pve servers so you had no choice but to deal with it.

This is NOT forced by any means.

CaptainObvious

So here is the takeaway from Imperial City. The evidence presented thusfar indicates that ESO team did 0 research on the history of other MMOs prior to making this MMO. As a result, they did not learn any of the things that worked, things that didn't.

So the consequence is, they will do as they see fit and steer the ship as they see fit.

The power that you have apart from the forums and more importantly, is your ability to pay their salaries. They will go where the money is.

They are running an experiment on whether or not they can draw more people into the PvP experience by making it the latest and greatest. So to keep up with the Joneses, you gotta get it.

If that experiment doesn't work. I.E., it has lousy adoption or after 2 months Cyrodiil average population decreases, then it will push the schedule of experiment 2. Experiment 2 being new solo area. So this is a vote with your dollars situation.

The funny thing/x-factor is the people subscribing in essence lose their voice in this equation.

Edit: The reason why they are attempting to drag people in to PvP is that it is the biggest hamster wheel they have in their arsenal. The content will only end when there are 0 players in the area. The duration of time required to get all of the achievements is quite large. If they can get you addicted to that hamster wheel then you will, in theory, stay around longer.

leepalmer95

I feel as if their just promoting ganking or zerging to be the only viable pvp solution in IC.

Azalin76

Schnuffles wrote: »

Heres a shocker. It isnt FORCED pvp.. its optional. simply don't go into cyrodil. Its alot like choosing NOT to do the quests out there. sure the pve content is there, but you dont have to do it. you have a confused concept on what forced really is. I suggest you look into other MMO's such as Aion. THAT was FORCED pvp. They had zones you had to go through as a pve player just to finish the storylines and low level people where getting ganked so badly by high levels that would jump through "portals" that spawned, and there was no restriction on level. so a level 5 could be constantly killed by a level 45 at anytime and unlike WoW there was no designated pvp or pve servers so you had no choice but to deal with it.

This is NOT forced by any means.

True it's not forced but the only other option is to keep playing the old content or quit the game. How is that good for anyone? I think you are a bit confused on how this works, if I want to keep playing the game and this is the new content in the game therefore I am forced to go there and have to deal with the pvp aspect of it.

Cathexis

Having to pve to pvp is no cakewalk either.

Tandor

Schnuffles wrote: »

Heres a shocker. It isnt FORCED pvp.. its optional. simply don't go into cyrodil. Its alot like choosing NOT to do the quests out there. sure the pve content is there, but you dont have to do it. you have a confused concept on what forced really is. I suggest you look into other MMO's such as Aion. THAT was FORCED pvp. They had zones you had to go through as a pve player just to finish the storylines and low level people where getting ganked so badly by high levels that would jump through "portals" that spawned, and there was no restriction on level. so a level 5 could be constantly killed by a level 45 at anytime and unlike WoW there was no designated pvp or pve servers so you had no choice but to deal with it.

This is NOT forced by any means.

You mean like PvE players have to go through Cyrodiil and the Imperial City PvP zones in order to complete the storylines and progress through the additional levels?

If you have no way of completing the PvE content without being subject to PvP then that PvP is forced. People accept that with Cyrodiil which is really a PvP zone with a bit of complementary PvE, but it's different with Imperial City which is a mixed PvP/PvE area.

pppontus

deleted

Azalin76

pppontus wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Schnuffles wrote: »

Heres a shocker. It isnt FORCED pvp.. its optional. simply don't go into cyrodil. Its alot like choosing NOT to do the quests out there. sure the pve content is there, but you dont have to do it. you have a confused concept on what forced really is. I suggest you look into other MMO's such as Aion. THAT was FORCED pvp. They had zones you had to go through as a pve player just to finish the storylines and low level people where getting ganked so badly by high levels that would jump through "portals" that spawned, and there was no restriction on level. so a level 5 could be constantly killed by a level 45 at anytime and unlike WoW there was no designated pvp or pve servers so you had no choice but to deal with it.

This is NOT forced by any means.

You mean like PvE players have to go through Cyrodiil and the Imperial City PvP zones in order to complete the storylines and progress through the additional levels?

If you have no way of completing the PvE content without being subject to PvP then that PvP is forced. People accept that with Cyrodiil which is really a PvP zone with a bit of complementary PvE, but it's different with Imperial City which is a mixed PvP/PvE area.

Why is it that PVE players absolutely MUST always consider themselves to be more important? Seriously, can you not understand how much of this game is PVE ONLY vs. how little is PVP in terms of actual content? 1 zone vs. how many zones?

I just hear PVErs whining SO HARD that there's one content release now that's not going to be catered to their every need from the bottom and up. If you don't want it, don't buy it. If you want to only PVE, go to the *** dungeons. If you want to do the rest, take the risk or don't do it at all.

THAT'S IT. That's your options. OR you can continue whining until you get everything you want because that seems to be what usually happens. And if anyone is wondering why PVPers generally label PVErs as carebears and crybabies, look right here.. whine, whine, whine to destroy the content that were made for PVP and make it your way... it's disgusting.

And inb4 someone says all PVE skill nerfs were because of PVP.. they probably were.. because mobs don't complain that you use OP skills. I understand that it's hard if PVE becomes almost a tiny bit challenging, but just deal with it..

Who here said anything about pve being more important or is complaining about this being a pvp patch? I have not seen either in this thread. I think you may need to read what ppl are saying. This thread has nothing to do with the new dlc being bad in anyway. I have said a few times that it's good that they are adding more pvp stuff. All I've stated was that I don't want to be forced to pvp in order to enjoy the new gear. Sure I can buy it from other players but then that makes my crafter useless. I don't want them to change any of the pvp part at all. Just would rather see other ways to get mats and motiffs other than a pvp zone.

DDuke

Azalin76 wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Schnuffles wrote: »

Heres a shocker. It isnt FORCED pvp.. its optional. simply don't go into cyrodil. Its alot like choosing NOT to do the quests out there. sure the pve content is there, but you dont have to do it. you have a confused concept on what forced really is. I suggest you look into other MMO's such as Aion. THAT was FORCED pvp. They had zones you had to go through as a pve player just to finish the storylines and low level people where getting ganked so badly by high levels that would jump through "portals" that spawned, and there was no restriction on level. so a level 5 could be constantly killed by a level 45 at anytime and unlike WoW there was no designated pvp or pve servers so you had no choice but to deal with it.

This is NOT forced by any means.

You mean like PvE players have to go through Cyrodiil and the Imperial City PvP zones in order to complete the storylines and progress through the additional levels?

If you have no way of completing the PvE content without being subject to PvP then that PvP is forced. People accept that with Cyrodiil which is really a PvP zone with a bit of complementary PvE, but it's different with Imperial City which is a mixed PvP/PvE area.

Why is it that PVE players absolutely MUST always consider themselves to be more important? Seriously, can you not understand how much of this game is PVE ONLY vs. how little is PVP in terms of actual content? 1 zone vs. how many zones?

I just hear PVErs whining SO HARD that there's one content release now that's not going to be catered to their every need from the bottom and up. If you don't want it, don't buy it. If you want to only PVE, go to the *** dungeons. If you want to do the rest, take the risk or don't do it at all.

THAT'S IT. That's your options. OR you can continue whining until you get everything you want because that seems to be what usually happens. And if anyone is wondering why PVPers generally label PVErs as carebears and crybabies, look right here.. whine, whine, whine to destroy the content that were made for PVP and make it your way... it's disgusting.

And inb4 someone says all PVE skill nerfs were because of PVP.. they probably were.. because mobs don't complain that you use OP skills. I understand that it's hard if PVE becomes almost a tiny bit challenging, but just deal with it..

Who here said anything about pve being more important or is complaining about this being a pvp patch? I have not seen either in this thread. I think you may need to read what ppl are saying. This thread has nothing to do with the new dlc being bad in anyway. I have said a few times that it's good that they are adding more pvp stuff. All I've stated was that I don't want to be forced to pvp in order to enjoy the new gear. Sure I can buy it from other players but then that makes my crafter useless. I don't want them to change any of the pvp part at all. Just would rather see other ways to get mats and motiffs other than a pvp zone.

You are already forced to PvP for optimal gear, or purchase that gear from PvPers.

Just saying...

Tankqull

what i find intresting is that if you are "robbed" of your hard work by a NPC guard cleansing all your stolen - or achieved by killing NPC - goods when being caught is perfectly fine but if a player is involveld doing the same we have an uproar like the servers are announced to be shut down...

Tandor

pppontus wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Schnuffles wrote: »

Heres a shocker. It isnt FORCED pvp.. its optional. simply don't go into cyrodil. Its alot like choosing NOT to do the quests out there. sure the pve content is there, but you dont have to do it. you have a confused concept on what forced really is. I suggest you look into other MMO's such as Aion. THAT was FORCED pvp. They had zones you had to go through as a pve player just to finish the storylines and low level people where getting ganked so badly by high levels that would jump through "portals" that spawned, and there was no restriction on level. so a level 5 could be constantly killed by a level 45 at anytime and unlike WoW there was no designated pvp or pve servers so you had no choice but to deal with it.

This is NOT forced by any means.

You mean like PvE players have to go through Cyrodiil and the Imperial City PvP zones in order to complete the storylines and progress through the additional levels?

If you have no way of completing the PvE content without being subject to PvP then that PvP is forced. People accept that with Cyrodiil which is really a PvP zone with a bit of complementary PvE, but it's different with Imperial City which is a mixed PvP/PvE area.

Why is it that PVE players absolutely MUST always consider themselves to be more important? Seriously, can you not understand how much of this game is PVE ONLY vs. how little is PVP in terms of actual content? 1 zone vs. how many zones?

I just hear PVErs whining SO HARD that there's one content release now that's not going to be catered to their every need from the bottom and up. If you don't want it, don't buy it. If you want to only PVE, go to the *** dungeons. If you want to do the rest, take the risk or don't do it at all.

THAT'S IT. That's your options. OR you can continue whining until you get everything you want because that seems to be what usually happens. And if anyone is wondering why PVPers generally label PVErs as carebears and crybabies, look right here.. whine, whine, whine to destroy the content that were made for PVP and make it your way... it's disgusting.

And inb4 someone says all PVE skill nerfs were because of PVP.. they probably were.. because mobs don't complain that you use OP skills. I understand that it's hard if PVE becomes almost a tiny bit challenging, but just deal with it..

No-one is claiming PvE superiority. I've said many times over this expansion that I'm delighted that PvP is getting additional content, and so have many others. Your response simply underlines why so many players have no interest whatsoever in getting caught up in PvP and don't therefore want the extensive PvE content gated behind it. This is not being promoted as a PvP expansion, it is being promoted as a PvP and PvE expansion for everybody that involves a lot more PvE content than just a couple of group dungeons to be repeated ad nauseum until you've gained two VR levels. All that is needed is for the two types of content to be implemented in a way that makes both equally viable because they don't mix well.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

All

Somakarma wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Not the looting everything you earned part. I mean what game has that kind of nonsense anymore?

Ark, DayZ, Rust, Eve Online... To name just a few.

lol two ive never heard of and eve has what 200k subs? Ya so thats what we want. No players no money no updates. Like eve. The others Ive never even heard of. So ya great the game will flounder and fail thanks to this idiotic direction they are taking. You guys keep going on about how great it is to grief everyone and take everyone's stuff until they announce the closure of the game.

Tankqull

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

All

Somakarma wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Not the looting everything you earned part. I mean what game has that kind of nonsense anymore?

Ark, DayZ, Rust, Eve Online... To name just a few.

lol two ive never heard of and eve has what 200k subs? Ya so thats what we want. No players no money no updates. Like eve. The others Ive never even heard of. So ya great the game will flounder and fail thanks to this idiotic direction they are taking. You guys keep going on about how great it is to grief everyone and take everyone's stuff until they announce the closure of the game.

eve is the only constantly growing MMO out there... so to be honest thats exactly what i want ...

Emma_Overload

RedTalon wrote: »

It's been known for ages that IC would be a mix of pvp/ove never understand why so many are shocked

Everybody knew IC was going to be mostly PvP-centered with some PvE. Nobody is disputing that. What no one (outside of ZoS) knew until a couple days ago was that IC would feature LOOTING of player corpses.

THAT'S what people are freaking out about.

bowmanz607

here is an idea. why dont PVE players stop trying to ruin content that was meant for pvp players any way. PVE players have had numerous updates. PVP players have had none. Now go away and run your trials.

pppontus

Tandor wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Schnuffles wrote: »

Heres a shocker. It isnt FORCED pvp.. its optional. simply don't go into cyrodil. Its alot like choosing NOT to do the quests out there. sure the pve content is there, but you dont have to do it. you have a confused concept on what forced really is. I suggest you look into other MMO's such as Aion. THAT was FORCED pvp. They had zones you had to go through as a pve player just to finish the storylines and low level people where getting ganked so badly by high levels that would jump through "portals" that spawned, and there was no restriction on level. so a level 5 could be constantly killed by a level 45 at anytime and unlike WoW there was no designated pvp or pve servers so you had no choice but to deal with it.

This is NOT forced by any means.

You mean like PvE players have to go through Cyrodiil and the Imperial City PvP zones in order to complete the storylines and progress through the additional levels?

If you have no way of completing the PvE content without being subject to PvP then that PvP is forced. People accept that with Cyrodiil which is really a PvP zone with a bit of complementary PvE, but it's different with Imperial City which is a mixed PvP/PvE area.

Why is it that PVE players absolutely MUST always consider themselves to be more important? Seriously, can you not understand how much of this game is PVE ONLY vs. how little is PVP in terms of actual content? 1 zone vs. how many zones?

I just hear PVErs whining SO HARD that there's one content release now that's not going to be catered to their every need from the bottom and up. If you don't want it, don't buy it. If you want to only PVE, go to the *** dungeons. If you want to do the rest, take the risk or don't do it at all.

THAT'S IT. That's your options. OR you can continue whining until you get everything you want because that seems to be what usually happens. And if anyone is wondering why PVPers generally label PVErs as carebears and crybabies, look right here.. whine, whine, whine to destroy the content that were made for PVP and make it your way... it's disgusting.

And inb4 someone says all PVE skill nerfs were because of PVP.. they probably were.. because mobs don't complain that you use OP skills. I understand that it's hard if PVE becomes almost a tiny bit challenging, but just deal with it..

No-one is claiming PvE superiority. I've said many times over this expansion that I'm delighted that PvP is getting additional content, and so have many others. Your response simply underlines why so many players have no interest whatsoever in getting caught up in PvP and don't therefore want the extensive PvE content gated behind it. This is not being promoted as a PvP expansion, it is being promoted as a PvP and PvE expansion for everybody that involves a lot more PvE content than just a couple of group dungeons to be repeated ad nauseum until you've gained two VR levels. All that is needed is for the two types of content to be implemented in a way that makes both equally viable because they don't mix well.

Eh, quite obviously the person right under you is claiming PVE superiority. They are equally viable already, there's a bunch of quests anyone can do.. if there's enemies there you might die *gasp* so you get a teeny tiny challenge as opposed to all other quests that are just steamrolled through. Maybe that hurts the first few times but that's life. And there's the two new scalable group dungeons that you can do as much as you like with no danger. For PvPers there's killing each other in the public dungeon and around the quest areas (although by the sounds of it 90% of PvPers will pretty much all go to the public dungeon as that seems to be the most rewarding). That's it? There's no more great content there.. sounds perfectly even to me, or well, if I was a whiner I'd actually whine that there's way too much PvE in there and I'd much rather have a pure PvP battleground.. but we will never get that so I'll settle for this.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

RedTalon wrote: »

It's been known for ages that IC would be a mix of pvp/ove never understand why so many are shocked

Everybody knew IC was going to be mostly PvP-centered with some PvE. Nobody is disputing that. What no one (outside of ZoS) knew until a couple days ago was that IC would feature LOOTING of player corpses.

THAT'S what people are freaking out about.

For the first time in the history of ESO there's a death penalty of any sort, this is welcome for the majority of actual PvP players who have gotten tired of just zerging from keep to keep. I'm sorry this bothers PvE players, but you have your options with dailies and you can play it "safe" by running after your alliance mates and by banking often. There's ways to deal with it that does not involve QQ until it's ruined for everyone else.

Adryssa_Joneley

Ok, i am really new to PvP, and my first 20 minutes in IC, I've already died quite a number of times. I am a NB and was in stealth each time and yet people seem to spot me a mile off. Is the stealth feature broken or what? I thought that once you are sneaking, it is near impossible to be seen, save for mage light. Those players, what i could see did not have that on. Is there something i am doing wrong? I can't even seem to complete one quest, due to ganking fests. Where is the PvE part of IC? Or is there no such thing for this DLC?

Pangnirtung

pppontus wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Isn't it refreshing that a game finally moves away from the carebear easymode style of play and introduces a gameplay mechanic that makes death actually matter more than a 20 second horse ride (at most)?

Oh brother. I love it when I hear these big words about a game. LOL

bowmanz607

Adryssa_Joneley wrote: »

Ok, i am really new to PvP, and my first 20 minutes in IC, I've already died quite a number of times. I am a NB and was in stealth each time and yet people seem to spot me a mile off. Is the stealth feature broken or what? I thought that once you are sneaking, it is near impossible to be seen, save for mage light. Those players, what i could see did not have that on. Is there something i am doing wrong? I can't even seem to complete one quest, due to ganking fests. Where is the PvE part of IC? Or is there no such thing for this DLC?

I would be very willing to train you as a nb. Been in since beta. I know magika and stamina nb inside and out. I also know the unconventional builds that are very effective of you have the skill.

Selique

Tandor wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

Disclaimer: I'm a PVE carebear that sucks in PVP.

No one is forced to PVP if you do not like it.
As I explain in this video, IMPERIAL CITY offers plenty of really cool stuff for PVErs.



Two new Dungeons is alone something great and worth to buy the DLC. Those Dungeon will provide you with enough reward that you may even want to farm TelVar stones.
You will most likely be able to buy the TelVar stoines items and crafting materials via Trading Guild that are being sold by players farming them.

So really this is a NON ISSUE.

Outside of 2 new dungeons it is very much an issue. The substantial remaining areas of Imperial City will not be accessible without engaging in PvP, and that is a valid concern for those PvEers who have zero interest in PvP and who place open world exploration and questing above repeating group dungeons or relying on trading guilds to supply high level gear, and for whom there are currently no other means of advancing to VR16.

And what will we PvPers do when Orsinium brings out new gear that we have to PvE to get?

vortexman11

Well. Just like how I'm not going to enter Orsinium when it's released, PvE-ers don't have to enter the Imperial City.

I've already been reported for harassment after killing someone in Cyrodiil outside the sewers by the way. I'm thinking of reporting Valkyn Skoria for harassment because he killed me while trying to get my monster set.

Ontop of all of that, thanks to complaints by numerous people PvP on the map outside of the Imperial City has essentially been destroyed. This open access has to go.

Callous2208

PVE carebear here! Let me just throw this out there. Cyrodiil was pretty fun at times, but this, this, IC is outstanding! I'm having a fantastic time completing objectives and getting into scuffles here and there for my precious stones. If anyone who normally doesn't care for pvp is on the fence, I would recommend you at least try it out. Compared to Cyro, my survivability has increased exponentially and small scale fights actually go on for a bit instead of one shot ko's from one guy wrecking ten. The geography of the districts offers plenty of places to hide, escape, and ambush. Even a carebear like me can wreck somebodies arse in IC, and complete pve objectives all at the same time.

ObsidianMichi

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Everybody knew IC was going to be mostly PvP-centered with some PvE. Nobody is disputing that. What no one (outside of ZoS) knew until a couple days ago was that IC would feature LOOTING of player corpses.

THAT'S what people are freaking out about.

That is an outright lie. Unless they've upgraded the looting to actually taking your gear, we've known that the Tel'Var stones were lootable for over a month now. It has been talked about, it has been discussed to death, and people have been freaking out about it for about that long. It's been discussed on the ESO Twitch episodes multiple times. You could see it on PTS.

If anyone was paying attention to the launch information (or just reading the forums), they should've known it was coming as a "feature".

usmcjdking

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

I want to read the forums after some of the folks that think the risk is a great thing, I wonder how that is going to work when they lose stones a few times, I started playing mmo's before they even had graphics and later on games like EQ some of the raids were a weekend events, corpse runs, get a coffin and a necromancer, no Ventrilo huge amount of people typing, yes times have changed hardcore today is not hardcore gaming of yesterday, and I am glad of that been there done that.
I guess we will pan out, my gut tells me after about two month the IC will be a ghost town, because of all the griefing which no one finds fun.

I pvp everyday, and I am not thinking of myself here but more for the overall health of the game.

Mhmmm...

2k plat commission for corpse recovery team for a Plane of Hate wipe.

Miss those days...

Emma_Overload

ObsidianMichi wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Everybody knew IC was going to be mostly PvP-centered with some PvE. Nobody is disputing that. What no one (outside of ZoS) knew until a couple days ago was that IC would feature LOOTING of player corpses.

THAT'S what people are freaking out about.

That is an outright lie. Unless they've upgraded the looting to actually taking your gear, we've known that the Tel'Var stones were lootable for over a month now. It has been talked about, it has been discussed to death, and people have been freaking out about it for about that long. It's been discussed on the ESO Twitch episodes multiple times. You could see it on PTS.

If anyone was paying attention to the launch information (or just reading the forums), they should've known it was coming as a "feature".

Hey wise guy... did you notice that my comment was written OVER A MONTH AGO before you started spouting nonsense on a necro'd thread???

Van_0S

Samadhi wrote: »

Azalin76 wrote: »

... If you had never done any pvp then it was a nightmare because you basically just feed the other team and spend most of your time dead. ...

Yes,very true but what about lags

ObsidianMichi

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hey wise guy... did you notice that my comment was written OVER A MONTH AGO before you started spouting nonsense on a necro'd thread???

Maybe if it had some difference to what you're spouting now, then it might be easier to tell.

Kalfis

PvPers forced to PVE doesn't work out too well either.

But apparently MMO devs disagree as evidenced almost all major MMOs released within the past 10 years.

Emma_Overload

ObsidianMichi wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Hey wise guy... did you notice that my comment was written OVER A MONTH AGO before you started spouting nonsense on a necro'd thread???

Maybe if it had some difference to what you're spouting now, then it might be easier to tell.

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with my comments, I think you ought to be careful about calling someone a "liar" when you're oblivious to the facts. When I wrote my comment above, the Tel Var system had JUST been announced a few days earlier.

AshTal

Big issue with PvP is the huge gab between the people who have been doing it for a year and new VET 14 characters, It is just a game of lying dead most of the time with no chance of getting that mythic 1000 stones an hour. Most of the core player base who do not PvP a lot or at all are really suffering from this patch and its the only place to get lv 16 gear and that will take a hell of a lot for them.

I agree the PvP update should not have hit before the PvE update we should have choices on how we wanted to level and gear at VET 16.