Oh great, the Tel Var stones are lootable

RavenSkylord · July 2015

Farorin wrote: »

or

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Celestrael wrote: »

[...]

[...]

Yet he racks up kills using a method supported by the game systems.

What I don't get about all this complaining is that ganking is a valid, legit way to play, and for some builds (stam NB comes to mind) literally the only viable way to play.

I don't get all angry at Healers for healing the people I tried to kill, so why get angry at gankers doing what they are designed to do?

Again, not mad. For any action in any game requires a certain amount of skill level. If your skill level has you taking the easiest way to do everything, so be it. But don't act like it takes any skill to sit and wait for cheap shots, a monkey can be trained to do the same thing. I would rather do any number of things then play that way, its boring, tedious and requires no real thouht process to do. Honestly not sure what is sadder, only possessing that much talent? Or feeling compelled to brag about pathetic they are? Either way doesn't impact me in the slightest. While you are busy waiting for the easy way, i will actually be doing something with my time. But no reason to celebrate inferiority

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Celestrael · July 2015

glavius wrote: »

Sound interesting. But im afraid it will make everyone run in huge zergs, making my solo playstyle impossible. Loosing stuff because you ended up in a 1 vs 20 fight doesnt sound that great

This content wont be ideal for you running solo. There will be stealthers waiting to gank you. There will be raiding parties coming through (doubtful about zergs when your side controls IC, but stealthers and gank groups will be out prowling until your PVP inclined alliance mates remove them). Your best bet is to run with a group or at least stay near where groups are going to be so that you get back-up in the event an enemy or enemies show up. Which they likely will. If it works like Darkness Falls, the longer your realm controls IC the safer it would be. But the most dangerous time will be right after it shifts.

This is a multiplayer game, not every aspect is going to be single-player friendly.

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

glavius wrote: »

Sound interesting. But im afraid it will make everyone run in huge zergs, making my solo playstyle impossible. Loosing stuff because you ended up in a 1 vs 20 fight doesnt sound that great

Probably, small groups could be more efficient because you get more TV stones per person.

I really hope IC doesnt turn into a huge mess. Numbers already are very important in pvp and with the upcoming changes to the class skills, Cyrodiil battle debuff and game mechanics I think this only will become important. The entire IC content could be ruined by 40+ man zergs running around and AOE swarming everyone.

Farorin · July 2015

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

or

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Celestrael wrote: »

^ U mad? I'll be coming for you, and your Tel Var stones. #hideyokids #hideyowife #hideyotelvarstonestoo

Mad at what? By your own admission you spend all your gaming time crouching and waiting for victims. That is about the most pathetic way to spend your time in the world, why not go watch paint dry, or grasd grow, or better yet go sit it waiting rooms all day.

Its also painfully obvious that you possess no real skill at video games in general, because all you are used to doing is sitting there like a rock, with an IQ to match.

Heck, I feel sorry for you, no sense of real accomplishment whatsoever, that is just sad, really really sad.

Yet he racks up kills using a method supported by the game systems.

What I don't get about all this complaining is that ganking is a valid, legit way to play, and for some builds (stam NB comes to mind) literally the only viable way to play.

I don't get all angry at Healers for healing the people I tried to kill, so why get angry at gankers doing what they are designed to do?

Again, not mad. For any action in any game requires a certain amount of skill level. If your skill level has you taking the easiest way to do everything, so be it. But don't act like it takes any skill to sit and wait for cheap shots, a monkey can be trained to do the same thing. I would rather do any number of things then play that way, its boring, tedious and requires no real thouht process to do. Honestly not sure what is sadder, only possessing that much talent? Or feeling compelled to brag about pathetic they are? Either way doesn't impact me in the slightest. While you are busy waiting for the easy way, i will actually be doing something with my time. But no reason to celebrate inferiority

Clearly you have never been a ganker, the only time it is the easiest way is when fighting a noob, to be fair, fighting a noob is easy even if you are not a ganker.

For example, for PVP my main is a ganker, and due to my high burst, but complete lack of any sustain or defensive abilities, if I don't kill someone within 2-5 hits, I have lost the fight, which happens often enough, and that is fair enough. Also, if someone has magelight, or detect pots, or are in a group of 3 or more, it also makes my playstyle difficult.

Stop trying to pretend like ganking is some morally wrong decision that only filthy, stupid, criminals would choose. Just because it's not your playstyle.

It's valid, it's legit, and it takes as much skill as any other playstyle, and I would know because I only have one ganker PVP toon and the others serve different functions depending on what mood I am in.

Celestrael · July 2015

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

or

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Celestrael wrote: »

[...]

[...]

Yet he racks up kills using a method supported by the game systems.

What I don't get about all this complaining is that ganking is a valid, legit way to play, and for some builds (stam NB comes to mind) literally the only viable way to play.

I don't get all angry at Healers for healing the people I tried to kill, so why get angry at gankers doing what they are designed to do?

Again, not mad. For any action in any game requires a certain amount of skill level. If your skill level has you taking the easiest way to do everything, so be it. But don't act like it takes any skill to sit and wait for cheap shots, a monkey can be trained to do the same thing. I would rather do any number of things then play that way, its boring, tedious and requires no real thouht process to do. Honestly not sure what is sadder, only possessing that much talent? Or feeling compelled to brag about pathetic they are? Either way doesn't impact me in the slightest. While you are busy waiting for the easy way, i will actually be doing something with my time. But no reason to celebrate inferiority

It actually takes more skill to kill players than mobs, because AI isn't as smart as a real person. Also I was smart in how I did it and functioned much like a real criminal (identifying who the affluent were and staking out their houses to determine their schedules, knowing the areas that were just sparse enough that I could kill and get away with it, etc etc).

You can insult me up and down but the fact of the matter is, you're just a Salty Sally because you were the kind of person I farmed in UO, and the same kind of parson I'm going to farm in IC.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

RavenSkylord · July 2015

Celestrael wrote: »

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

or

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Celestrael wrote: »

[...]

[...]

Yet he racks up kills using a method supported by the game systems.

What I don't get about all this complaining is that ganking is a valid, legit way to play, and for some builds (stam NB comes to mind) literally the only viable way to play.

I don't get all angry at Healers for healing the people I tried to kill, so why get angry at gankers doing what they are designed to do?

Again, not mad. For any action in any game requires a certain amount of skill level. If your skill level has you taking the easiest way to do everything, so be it. But don't act like it takes any skill to sit and wait for cheap shots, a monkey can be trained to do the same thing. I would rather do any number of things then play that way, its boring, tedious and requires no real thouht process to do. Honestly not sure what is sadder, only possessing that much talent? Or feeling compelled to brag about pathetic they are? Either way doesn't impact me in the slightest. While you are busy waiting for the easy way, i will actually be doing something with my time. But no reason to celebrate inferiority

It actually takes more skill to kill players than mobs, because AI isn't as smart as a real person. Also I was smart in how I did it and functioned much like a real criminal (identifying who the affluent were and staking out their houses to determine their schedules, knowing the areas that were just sparse enough that I could kill and get away with it, etc etc).

You can insult me up and down but the fact of the matter is, you're just a Salty Sally because you were the kind of person I farmed in UO, and the same kind of person I'm going to farm in IC.

You're absolutely right that playing against other players requires more skill, the problem is your method doesn't. Ask any true pvp player in any game if cheap shotting takes any skill. I am not asking you as you have made it perfectly clear that you lack the ability to actually beat another player outside of the methods you so proudly claim.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Celestrael · July 2015

I bow to your clearly superior playstyle and concede that I'm a worthless sad pathetic human being capable of succeeding only by sucking.

All Hail "RavenSkylord", King of the Gamers, Lord of the Only Legitimate Playstyle, and Supreme Ruler of Carebear Kingdom!! Long May He Reign!

Leandor · July 2015

@Celestrael

The problem with your stance is not based on that itself but on the fact that this game has too many "mechanics" that allow player killing without any possibility to fight back. The reduced damage buff is the band-aid they are implementing to tackle this, but it is only that: a band-aid.

Having this "loss of gains"-mechanic in a game environment that actually takes "better skill than opponent" to pull it off is fine. Having these mechanics in a game that has "boom, headshot!" mechanics is plain stupid.

Now if they bring back the old health ratio and make defensive skills like shields, dodge roll and blocking work in a way that maximizing those will minimize your damage output and vice versa, you know, real min-maxing, then it would be a good start to "balance" things.

For the game we have, your stance is abysmal. For the game we wish we'd have, I would even agree with you.

Rakshat · July 2015

EVERY tactic is a viable tactic in PvP. If you go into a PvP zone expecting a fair fight, you have no business there to begin with. Think of it as a jungle, where jungle laws apply. Predators are watching your every step, mate.

Tavore1138 · July 2015

Farorin wrote: »

or

RavenSkylord wrote: »

Celestrael wrote: »

[...]

Mad at what? By your own admission you spend all your gaming time crouching and waiting for victims. That is about the most pathetic way to spend your time in the world, why not go watch paint dry, or grasd grow, or better yet go sit it waiting rooms all day.

Its also painfully obvious that you possess no real skill at video games in general, because all you are used to doing is sitting there like a rock, with an IQ to match.

Heck, I feel sorry for you, no sense of real accomplishment whatsoever, that is just sad, really really sad.

Yet he racks up kills using a method supported by the game systems.

What I don't get about all this complaining is that ganking is a valid, legit way to play, and for some builds (stam NB comes to mind) literally the only viable way to play.

I don't get all angry at Healers for healing the people I tried to kill, so why get angry at gankers doing what they are designed to do?

As a stam NB who PvPs a lot you are just plain wrong about ganking being the only viable method of play, that simply lacks imagination.

Also getting angry at being killed whatever the class and style of your killer in PvP is a bit silly unless that death is either via exploit or game glitch.

However having some macro-er being rewarded in valuable and scarce in game resource is crazy bad design.

Rewarding tiny souled griefers for picking on people looking to take part in the PvE they have paid for is crazy bad design.

Anything that rewards people for spoiling the game for others is crazy bad design because it will drive people away from funding the game.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

Elitetownie wrote: »

Games are designed for mindless pvers and its nice to spoil the party for them every once in a while and force them to actually think on their feet. A pvp player dies and shrugs it off and moves on but a PVEr cries, posts for nerfs on the forums and campaigns for the removal of all player conflict in every aspect of an mmo.

Yes, I like these kind of PvP uber-attitude and all the claims how OP PvPers are, only to see them failing miserably on basic end-game PvE content mechanics shortly afterwards.

The content probably wont be too difficult because everyone needs to have a pvp/pve hybrid build, if the pve content is hard the pvpers will have an even easier time killing pve groups.

Edit: lol which difficult pve content? Once you know the mechanics every pve boss is basically a walk in the park compared to pvp. At x% health a certain mechanic, hold block/dodge roll/stay out of red AOE circles and continue dps/healing. Tanking will become more difficult without stam regen while blocking though, this in turn will probably put more strain on the healer.

Leandor · July 2015

Rakshat wrote: »

EVERY tactic is a viable tactic in PvP. If you go into a PvP zone expecting a fair fight, you have no business there to begin with. Think of it as a jungle, where jungle laws apply. Predators are watching your every step, mate.

I am not questioning the tactics. I am questioning the game system that apparently exists in ZOS' heads and the negative synergies of it in conjunction with the idea to implement a "loss of gains" mechanic.

Enodoc wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I'm just thinking loud. Addon that respawns you at home base / safe zone with one button press?

If you respawn quick enough, your corps is gone... No one can loot it...

Hmmm, interesting point. I can't see that being a fair way to implement it, so maybe my above "rewording" is more accurate than we thought, and you don't actually "loot" them, and are just "given" them.

Enodoc wrote: »

"If you are killed in the Imperial City, you will lose Tel Var stones. Killing another player will reward Tel Var stones in addition to AP and XP."

I thought back on this for a while, @Enodoc . That would make it worse actually, since you would lose them also in a situation where your team actually won but you were the one casualty on your side - an undeserved loss.

EgoRush · July 2015

There's a lot of strong feelings here over what's mostly speculation for now. Let's see how it pans out on PTS - people can test, feedback, then (hopefully) ZOS will adapt it to work. Wishful thinking, maybe, but I'll remain optimistic.

As for gankers taking the stones, I don't think it's a huge issue as there are ways to deal with this. Get others from your guild or a sister-PvP guild to form a vanguard to gank the gankers. I wonder if there will be a limit on the number of times the stones can pass between players? It would be nice if they could only be held by each faction once: i.e. EP gets stones, DC ganks and steals, AD ganks and steals from ganker, EP ganks back and stones are lost. This could breed a supportive environment of factions protecting each other. Otherwise, some EP might wait for their own to be ganked so they can counter-gank to get the stones for themselves in an indirect action of friendly fire. Could be fun to act as hired mercenaries to protect PvErs going for the stones.

Alas, I'll keep an open mind until PTS and testing the system myself. We don't know enough yet.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

EgoRush wrote: »

Alas, I'll keep an open mind until PTS and testing the system myself. We don't know enough yet.

Test? Test what? PTS will launch and then what?

PVP leeches will swarm PTS to check out their fancy new PVP gear, they will just kill people anyway because thats apparently all they can do (and cry for nerfs, two favourite things) and declare all around that "this is fun"

PVE players who just want to enjoy PVE content will either go to PTS or not. And guess what, you dont need a "magical" PTS to know that

Losing any part of your work where you invested time into something to an opportunist leech and parasyte PVPer is not fun in any aspect.

But of course PVPers will keep being like "bo *** you werent on PTS!!11oneonoen, its fun".

Just waiting till PVPers will start telling us that "stealing TV stones" is for our own PVEers good, we dont really know what we want and we are wrong because obviously losing hours of work to someone is 100% fun

Merlin13KAGL · July 2015

NDwarf wrote: »

Never claimed it to be skillful playing Also, according to Sun Tzu that's not cowardly that's how you roll in war.
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” Then take their stones. Ok I added the stones part.

Joking aside, I don't think Zos understands the can of worms they just bust open all over themselves with lootable pvp stones. That /unstuck post I made was just off the top of my head on how to game the system and the real masterminds will have all kinds of evil ways planned out on how to farm players for stones come September. It's gonna get real ugly real fast.

Nisto wrote: »

one could also log out and wait for the game to kick them out of cyrodil, soo many ways to escape

@NDwarf , I agree completely. There are some out there that wouldn't last 20 seconds toe to toe but insist they are l33t while hiding in the bushes.

My comment is not directed specifically at you, nor am I saying you're one of those players. The playstyle is completely valid. Hell, they build an entire class around it (which they should have!).

I am merely saying once you have stones in your inventory, you should be required to have the stones to get them back to safety, whether earned via PvE or a long night of successful ganks.

Besides, I expect equal opportunity to come track you down and take them back.

@Nisto, again, if you log, you forfeit, or your 10 second counter needs to get cranked up to about 10 minutes or more. There should be no quick way around it for either side lest it be considered an exploit.

Again, sucks for legitimate server kicks, but I think it will be a necessary evil.

The gankers wouldn't like it if that person with 200 stones and zero situational awareness was able to just poof to freedom everytime they got nervous.

It's an added mechanic, one that will be fun/completely suck depending on who you ask and which end you're on.

I suspect it will lead to some interesting changes in how people play and will force some player evolution and game evolution in the process.

People will find the best way on both sides, but it should have to be earned either way.

I suspect if it ends up completely AFU, we and they will find a way to adjust accordingly.

(Personally I like the idea of cooldown timer that does not start until you are in a PvP area. Hold onto the stones for that time period, and they become exempt.

It will prevent the need for frequent bank runs, promote more caution and care, yet still give the hidey-hole-stabby-stabs and chance to release their inner bandit.)

I'd like to see the roving patrols so no one gets to camp a spot and be safe themselves...Hostile imperials (with uber HP) roaming with torches that reveal hidden enemies to all in LoS, or enemies that lurk in the dark areas of the sewers that tend to drag things off to the depths when they sit still for a little too long...

I am as stubborn as I am unafraid and I will be undeterred. I think it will prove interesting how this develops as time progresses.

Tyrusaran · July 2015

Celestrael wrote: »

xoduspaladin wrote: »

Celestrael wrote: »

Back in my day, on old school Ultima Online, when you died, your entire inventory and everything that you were wearing was lootable from your corpse. And ya'll are all worried about some stones.

Yeah, there's a reason why games like that aren't around anymore or games that try to bring that way of playing back do not last (there have been quite a few MMOs who attempted to do so over the years).

Rose-tinted glasses aside, this will be an interesting, and more likely, unfortunately situation for Xenimax and this game...

Actually, Ultima Online launched in 1998 and it's still online. You're probably familiar with the company that made it too, Origin. Many MMOs have come and went but it's still there. There's also a thriving Free Shard system where players have reverse engineered earlier versions of the game (before it was made more newb friendly) to get that nostalgic feeling of a hardcore MMO.

But nice try.

Oh sure right, oh no wait ...... WRONG!

As a day 1 UO player i know that origin does not exist anymore as a gaming company and is now a download platform/online store for EA. EA bought Ultima and *** it up.

It is still going but its crap and outdated.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

"Again, if you log, you forfeit, or your 10 second counter needs to get cranked up to about 10 minutes or more. There should be no quick way around it for either side lest it be considered an exploit."
Wow, what else? 10 minutes? 1 hour? Im sure players will love when the game wont let them log out or quit. Long log out time after fight was worst mechanic in MMO that was fortunately abandoned. Being chained to the game just because someone did something to you and now you cant carry on with your buissness. It creates only tensions, frustration and bad feelings.

"The gankers wouldn't like it if that person with 200 stones and zero situational awareness was able to just poof to freedom everytime they got nervous."
Since when gankers have anything to say? They are already *** and cowards. Scum of PVP attacking people who mind their own business. They should be disappointed to any degree its necessary.

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Alas, I'll keep an open mind until PTS and testing the system myself. We don't know enough yet.

Test? Test what? PTS will launch and then what?

PVP leeches will swarm PTS to check out their fancy new PVP gear, they will just kill people anyway because thats apparently all they can do (and cry for nerfs, two favourite things) and declare all around that "this is fun"

PVE players who just want to enjoy PVE content will either go to PTS or not. And guess what, you dont need a "magical" PTS to know that

Losing any part of your work where you invested time into something to an opportunist leech and parasyte PVPer is not fun in any aspect.

But of course PVPers will keep being like "bo *** you werent on PTS!!11oneonoen, its fun".

Just waiting till PVPers will start telling us that "stealing TV stones" is for our own PVEers good, we dont really know what we want and we are wrong because obviously losing hours of work to someone is 100% fun

Parasyte PVPer? I dont know what kind of issues you have with parasyte PVPers but there is only a single area for PVP. If you dont want to get infected by leeching PVP parasytes dont go to the PVP zone. If you want to explore Cyrodiil and do quests thats fine but dont be surprised if there are other people PVPing.

If you dont want to lose your precocious Tel Var stones make a build with escaping capabilities. For example, you can use retreating maneuver, mist form, invis pots, defensive posture from S&B to reflect snipes etc.

Celestrael · July 2015

EA did screw it up, as I said the later expansions ruined the initial feel of the game (like the item insurance which ruined playing as a Red PK that came with the Age of Shadows expansion, shortly after EA purchased Origin). My point is that the game is still running and Origin still exists (in a form, gaming studios are bought out and reorganized regularly). A point I made when someone said that Ultima Online was no longer around. It's around. It still has subscribers. It's still releasing content. It's not my cup of tea anymore, but it's there.

Enodoc · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I'm just thinking loud. Addon that respawns you at home base / safe zone with one button press?

If you respawn quick enough, your corps is gone... No one can loot it...

Hmmm, interesting point. I can't see that being a fair way to implement it, so maybe my above "rewording" is more accurate than we thought, and you don't actually "loot" them, and are just "given" them.

Enodoc wrote: »

"If you are killed in the Imperial City, you will lose Tel Var stones. Killing another player will reward Tel Var stones in addition to AP and XP."

I thought back on this for a while, @Enodoc . That would make it worse actually, since you would lose them also in a situation where your team actually won but you were the one casualty on your side - an undeserved loss.

Yeah true, but I still think that's how it'll work. After all, you did lose your fight. Although if your group has wiped out the enemy completely, maybe they'd be kind enough to give you back some of the stones that they got when they killed your killer.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

"Again, if you log, you forfeit, or your 10 second counter needs to get cranked up to about 10 minutes or more. There should be no quick way around it for either side lest it be considered an exploit."
Wow, what else? 10 minutes? 1 hour? Im sure players will love when the game wont let them log out or quit. Long log out time after fight was worst mechanic in MMO that was fortunately abandoned. Being chained to the game just because someone did something to you and now you cant carry on with your buissness. It creates only tensions, frustration and bad feelings.

"The gankers wouldn't like it if that person with 200 stones and zero situational awareness was able to just poof to freedom everytime they got nervous."
Since when gankers have anything to say? They are already *** and cowards. Scum of PVP attacking people who mind their own business. They should be disappointed to any degree its necessary.

@MaximusDargus agreed about the timeout, but it also shouldn't be a one button exit to safety (original definition of 'QQ'). Same with /stuck, same with /MailBeforeSomeoneEngagesMe

Again, if you're not hording stones for hours, it shouldn't be an issue. (How about added logout above a certain number of stones? It's effectively no different than not being able to log out during combat.)

You can't call 'timeout' or 'base! I'm on base!' in the middle of the Mantikora fight either. Did you look at Molag and say "One sec, I gotta take this call?"

Once the stones hit the bank, they should be tagged as safe. You should be able to use them from the bank, just like crafting mats for purchases, etc.

However, if either side can grab and go, it's exactly what everyone will be doing and the new mechanic will be rendered immediately invalid.

If the mechanic is invalid from the start, they may as well remove it now.

Regarding gankers, did you not see the part of my post regarding patrols/monsters that would help prevent the safety of camping one spot for the gankers as well?

I don't shoot fish in a barrel. I don't camp quest hubs. I enjoy reasonable engagements and don't have a problem getting beaten legitimately. I suspect many of the PvP changes proposed in the Major update will help deal with this.

There should be no more 1 shot/2 shot kills from 50m while hidden. TTK should go up, giving you a chance to react, even to gankers. Methods will change to make stealth better (no more detect potions, no more broken stealth from single target damage) and counterable (unstealth from AoE, radiant magelight.)

Having been ganked plenty of times, I can equally say there is little that brings more pleasure than executing the individual that thought they had an easy kill.

Either way, it's gonna take time to get balanced.

Leandor · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I'm just thinking loud. Addon that respawns you at home base / safe zone with one button press?

If you respawn quick enough, your corps is gone... No one can loot it...

Hmmm, interesting point. I can't see that being a fair way to implement it, so maybe my above "rewording" is more accurate than we thought, and you don't actually "loot" them, and are just "given" them.

Enodoc wrote: »

"If you are killed in the Imperial City, you will lose Tel Var stones. Killing another player will reward Tel Var stones in addition to AP and XP."

I thought back on this for a while, @Enodoc . That would make it worse actually, since you would lose them also in a situation where your team actually won but you were the one casualty on your side - an undeserved loss.

Yeah true, but I still think that's how it'll work. After all, you did lose your fight. Although if your group has wiped out the enemy completely, maybe they'd be kind enough to give you back some of the stones that they got when they killed your killer.

Makes playing the more squishy group supporter role or the more tanky meat shield role veeeeeery unattractive, since you lose all your stones and regain only your share of the enemies. It was already confirmed by greens that the stones are neither tradeable nor mailable.

I still think that your version, while less "circumventable", would be the worse-for-wear solution.

Pallmor · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Ya, PvP'ers whine a thousand times more than PvE'ers, PvE'ers usually end up sucking up ridiculous nerfs caused by the whining of PvP'ers who didn't think it was fair they died, but who will campaign endlessly to stop their own skills from getting nerfed.

It is a matter of gigantic egos that want to defeat others easily without ever losing a fight themselves, and anytime something prevents that pipedream they cry nerf, ridiculously ZOS listens and PvE'ers have to suck up needless downgrades to their skills in PvE.

There is a great example of that in the upcoming update. Because PvPers are spamming blocking, PvE tanks running group dungeons will now have to deal with a nerf that stops stamina regeneration during blocking. It wasn't like tanking wasn't already tough enough in this game (with no area taunts). But now thanks to PvP abuses, tanks are getting nerfed even more.

Pallmor · July 2015

Farorin wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

This is worst thing from all the IC announcement.

ZOS starts encouraging leeching and parasytying of other players. Because thats what its called, someone spends hour-two playing and getting stones and then he gets ganked by some PVP *** and dies because of him and/or cyriodiil lags losing it.

Anyone who finds that "exciting" and "fun" that he will be able to leech and parasyte on others work, WOW, your parents must be proud of you for having such moral compass.

By that logic, a game of poker or blackjack, hell, any game where there is risk of loss and incentive of reward, must be the devil's doing.

In poker, most people aren't stupid enough to play against a guy who automatically gets 10 aces at every draw because he's been farming aces 24/7 for the last year (and has three friends beside him who do also). We're not talking fair fights here. If groups of VR 16's are ganking stones, no one is going to be able to go into IC unless they bring an army too.

To me it just sounds kinda like "I want to get given all the cool stuff without having to actually try, and without any risk".

Wait, are you talking about the VR5 who has worked his butt off to get the some stones out of a PvE dungeon or the VR16's who just lazily camp an exit and gank him? Because it really sounds like you're describing the latter.

Enodoc · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I'm just thinking loud. Addon that respawns you at home base / safe zone with one button press?

If you respawn quick enough, your corps is gone... No one can loot it...

Hmmm, interesting point. I can't see that being a fair way to implement it, so maybe my above "rewording" is more accurate than we thought, and you don't actually "loot" them, and are just "given" them.

Enodoc wrote: »

"If you are killed in the Imperial City, you will lose Tel Var stones. Killing another player will reward Tel Var stones in addition to AP and XP."

I thought back on this for a while, @Enodoc . That would make it worse actually, since you would lose them also in a situation where your team actually won but you were the one casualty on your side - an undeserved loss.

Yeah true, but I still think that's how it'll work. After all, you did lose your fight. Although if your group has wiped out the enemy completely, maybe they'd be kind enough to give you back some of the stones that they got when they killed your killer.

Makes playing the more squishy group supporter role or the more tanky meat shield role veeeeeery unattractive, since you lose all your stones and regain only your share of the enemies. It was already confirmed by greens that the stones are neither tradeable nor mailable.

I still think that your version, while less "circumventable", would be the worse-for-wear solution.

Ah, I know they said they weren't mailable, I didn't think they'd confirmed whether they were tradeable or not.

Pallmor · July 2015

SC0TY999 wrote: »

The more I read the more it just seems like a hasty not thought through decision.

As usual it will be a poor design with a poor execution that you'll have to wait months for a balancing fix (again)!

Celestrael wrote: »

xoduspaladin wrote: »

Celestrael wrote: »

Back in my day, on old school Ultima Online, when you died, your entire inventory and everything that you were wearing was lootable from your corpse. And ya'll are all worried about some stones.

Yeah, there's a reason why games like that aren't around anymore or games that try to bring that way of playing back do not last (there have been quite a few MMOs who attempted to do so over the years).

Rose-tinted glasses aside, this will be an interesting, and more likely, unfortunately situation for Xenimax and this game...

Actually, Ultima Online launched in 1998 and it's still online.

Yeah, and they got rid of PvP corpse looting in 2003, with the Age of Shadows expansion and gear insurance.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2015

Pallmor wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

This is worst thing from all the IC announcement.

ZOS starts encouraging leeching and parasytying of other players. Because thats what its called, someone spends hour-two playing and getting stones and then he gets ganked by some PVP *** and dies because of him and/or cyriodiil lags losing it.

Anyone who finds that "exciting" and "fun" that he will be able to leech and parasyte on others work, WOW, your parents must be proud of you for having such moral compass.

By that logic, a game of poker or blackjack, hell, any game where there is risk of loss and incentive of reward, must be the devil's doing.

In poker, most people aren't stupid enough to play against a guy who automatically gets 10 aces at every draw because he's been farming aces 24/7 for the last year (and has three friends beside him who do also). We're not talking fair fights here. If groups of VR 16's are ganking stones, no one is going to be able to go into IC unless they bring an army too.

To me it just sounds kinda like "I want to get given all the cool stuff without having to actually try, and without any risk".

Wait, are you talking about the VR5 who has worked his butt off to get the some stones out of a PvE dungeon or the VR16's who just lazily camp an exit and gank him? Because it really sounds like you're describing the latter.

Since battle leveling will work for VR's now to VR14/medium gear, the relative ranks won't really play a difference. Less yet, since the group content will be scaled to leader.

Pallmor · July 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

This is worst thing from all the IC announcement.

ZOS starts encouraging leeching and parasytying of other players. Because thats what its called, someone spends hour-two playing and getting stones and then he gets ganked by some PVP *** and dies because of him and/or cyriodiil lags losing it.

Anyone who finds that "exciting" and "fun" that he will be able to leech and parasyte on others work, WOW, your parents must be proud of you for having such moral compass.

By that logic, a game of poker or blackjack, hell, any game where there is risk of loss and incentive of reward, must be the devil's doing.

In poker, most people aren't stupid enough to play against a guy who automatically gets 10 aces at every draw because he's been farming aces 24/7 for the last year (and has three friends beside him who do also). We're not talking fair fights here. If groups of VR 16's are ganking stones, no one is going to be able to go into IC unless they bring an army too.

To me it just sounds kinda like "I want to get given all the cool stuff without having to actually try, and without any risk".

Wait, are you talking about the VR5 who has worked his butt off to get the some stones out of a PvE dungeon or the VR16's who just lazily camp an exit and gank him? Because it really sounds like you're describing the latter.

Since battle leveling will work for VR's now to VR14/medium gear, the relative ranks won't really play a difference. Less yet, since the group content will be scaled to leader.

Will it scale up CP's too? Because equal level or not, a player with 10 CP is going to get crushed by a player with 500 CP.

Septimus_Magna · July 2015

Pallmor wrote: »

Zsymon wrote: »

Ya, PvP'ers whine a thousand times more than PvE'ers, PvE'ers usually end up sucking up ridiculous nerfs caused by the whining of PvP'ers who didn't think it was fair they died, but who will campaign endlessly to stop their own skills from getting nerfed.

It is a matter of gigantic egos that want to defeat others easily without ever losing a fight themselves, and anytime something prevents that pipedream they cry nerf, ridiculously ZOS listens and PvE'ers have to suck up needless downgrades to their skills in PvE.

There is a great example of that in the upcoming update. Because PvPers are spamming blocking, PvE tanks running group dungeons will now have to deal with a nerf that stops stamina regeneration during blocking. It wasn't like tanking wasn't already tough enough in this game (with no area taunts). But now thanks to PvP abuses, tanks are getting nerfed even more.

You can do most veteran dungeons without a tank if you have a decent healer. Ive tanked Bogdag "hard-mode" with my LA destro/resto sorc so I dont think tanking is hard tbh. Situations with multiple enemies are usually very short because decent dps-ers just AOE them down in a few seconds.

Unless you're talking about tanking 4 axes in hard-mode AA I dont see why stam regen should be such a big problem, you can also get a huge compensation from the CS passives to improve your survivability.

EgoRush · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Test? Test what? PTS will launch and then what?

Do you have any idea how the TV stones work with regards to collecting them, keeping them, trading them, banking them, spending them? No. None of us have much of a clue just yet. "Test? Test what?" What do you think? All of the above. People will figure out more on the TV stones and contingency plans on obtaining/maintaining your hold on them during the PTS. Such information will leak everywhere on forums and by the time the patch hits people will have an idea of the best course of action for getting their precious new gear. So calm down, there's no point getting so worked up until we know more...