If you don't want to balance CP ..

Juraigr · July 2015

BEZDNA wrote: »

I support idea of having CP rank is visual.

But for me ersonaly CP system is awesome, howeawer i do belive that there shud be some kind of catch up system implemented for ppl who just started to play or those who have big brakes in game, the CP gap doesn't looks like a real issue. It is more like ppl complain about CP gap becous they understend that there are ppl who are far ahead with there number of CP, but the fact is that there are onlu 0,1% of player base who has much more CP then others and sll those ppl are hard to face in Cyro and they are not that much pve competitive.

Also what you have to know about champ system is that there is sertain point when you almost stop getting any benifit from cham system - let say when you get 1500 cp, 1,5k out of 3,6, you almost stop getting any real benefit, the only thing you get is small increas in you hp/stam/man pool which is not that noticeble. And now 300 cp is very comon thing, so all those ppl are alredy on 20% from getting max benefit from CP (300/1500).

Cp system has to be one of the most unbalanced things I've ever seen in a game, granted I rarely play mmos but this is terrible, allowing people who grind out 12 hours a day to have a noticeable advantage over those who don't. Sitting at 180 cp while most have 230 plus smh they didn't think this through whatsoever

Ezareth · July 2015

I think if they buff PvP XP, they need to drastically reduce large group to compensate and encourage less zerging which nets you the highest amount of XP right now.

Farorin · July 2015

I for one like that you cannot see other's champion points.

BigTone · July 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

I think if they buff PvP XP, they need to drastically reduce large group to compensate and encourage less zerging which nets you the highest amount of XP right now.

Increase the difference in XP for defending a keep/resource with 20 players and defending a keep/resource with 70 players as well.

Publius_Scipio · July 2015

I agree with some of the others who have mentioned cap CP in pvp. You either cap CP in pvp or somehow disable CP when entering Cyrodiil. Question is, if you character is the same entity in pve as it is in pvp, what happens when you enter Cyrodiil and the CP cap bumps you down or is disabled altogether?

Like I implied in my post above, the system itself can't be balanced. But that's what happens when you have an MMO that ties pve and pvp so close together. in pve you want that progression, in pvp you need that ceiling to bring everything in line.

Ezareth · July 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I agree with some of the others who have mentioned cap CP in pvp. You either cap CP in pvp or somehow disable CP when entering Cyrodiil. Question is, if you character is the same entity in pve as it is in pvp, what happens when you enter Cyrodiil and the CP cap bumps you down or is disabled altogether?

Like I implied in my post above, the system itself can't be balanced. But that's what happens when you have an MMO that ties pve and pvp so close together. in pve you want that progression, in pvp you need that ceiling to bring everything in line.

Perhaps they could set a moving cap that grows by 1-2 CP at most a day in Cyrodiil and attach it to the battle buff. I don't know how they'd decide which skillpoints were spent where though so that solution would likely be a programmatic impossibility.

Lava_Croft · July 2015

Juraigr wrote: »

Cp system has to be one of the most unbalanced things I've ever seen in a game, granted I rarely play mmos but this is terrible, allowing people who grind out 12 hours a day to have a noticeable advantage over those who don't. Sitting at 180 cp while most have 230 plus smh they didn't think this through whatsoever

Hey man it's awesome for PvE so work's done!

tonemd · July 2015

Will bring this idea up again.

Make it so you have a set amount of SP, Attributes and CP that you can apply to a PVP character that (once you've reached the max amount) NEVER changes.

I would limit progression to skills placed in the Alliance war tree. They could add new skills every 3 months, six months, year, whatever. But your SP amount never changes so theres always a trade off.

If you want your PVE character in PVP you create a PVP version of them with the limitations. (At that point you could even auto assign them to the lowest populated faction on the server because they don't have to be tied to any faction. But that's pie in the sky)

eliisra · July 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

I think if they buff PvP XP, they need to drastically reduce large group to compensate and encourage less zerging which nets you the highest amount of XP right now.

Depends how you define a zerg? Because PvP XP works like PvE XP. Only a set amount of players, 12 or normal raid size, can get XP from a kill. In my opinion a zerg is 24+ and with a size like that, half the group gets 0 exp when the enemy dies.

Ideally a smaller raid or bigger group is better, since that allows everyone to get XP from kills.

Fair enough, the 12 guys spamming Steel Tornado inside the zerg clearly makes the highest PvP XP right now lol. But everyone else, like the support ***, the healer or the punch-bag peeler, they only get AP. While their contribution helped to wipe the enemy, it rarely counts towards the XP reward.

Regardless, PvP XP ***. You shouldn't become weaker by the day because you choose to fight actual players instead of NPC's. What stupid system is that? There's just no way to keep the points coming once you hit VR14+, unless you grind monsters in a Cyrodiil cave like a brain-dead. It's a horrible design, killer of fun and makes people not want to play this game. You should be able to get a reasonable amount of CP every day at level cap, by doing enjoyable or challenging activities.

david31741 · July 2015

I get far more CP from pvp than pve - granted you have to be killing things to gain CP

TheElementalPlatypus · July 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Question I have is how do you "balance" champion points? It is just a pool of points earned that people can place however they like. So if ZOS were to just throw everyone 3600 champ points right off the bat it would be balanced right?

How do you balance the Champion Point System itself?

An idea I had was create more campaigns that are based off different levels of champ points. Something similar to non vet campaign in a way. 1-100 CP is a campaign, 101-200, etc.

The problem with my idea is that I see a bunch of very empty campaigns.

cap them at 360 in cyrodiil bam einstein idea. Grindy players get advantage over newer ones and newer ones have a chance to fight and catch up eventually.

But no, we are working with seahorses for devs here so we must do it another way.

via Imgflip Meme Maker

Emma_Overload · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Question I have is how do you "balance" champion points? It is just a pool of points earned that people can place however they like. So if ZOS were to just throw everyone 3600 champ points right off the bat it would be balanced right?

How do you balance the Champion Point System itself?

The issue is there is no true way to "balance" it. The system is flawed, you can't have true competitive PvP with endless progression, I've sorta accepted the fact that the PvP is meant for casual play style and not meant to be competitive/pro, I at least want to know the CP of the players I face.

Back then, a v14, was just that, a v14. They had access to pretty much all the things you had access to and it didn't take much to obtain what was needed to be competitive. Now the entire system is revolved around a time/money sink (xp grinding + xp potions) and players are rewarded for killing zombies and drinking xp pots.

This doesn't just affect PvP. Even though I don't care for PvE, eventually, the leaderboards will be dominated by players who have a high CP value. OFCOURSE skill comes into play, I am very aware of that. But EQUAL SKILL + Statistical Advantage throws the balance off completely.

There are so many threads regarding how CP is making things unbalanced, let's not focus on that for this thread. I just want this system to be transparent (not completely, as in I don't want to know where you spent your points) I just want to know how many you've spent.

(This would also help in organized PvP events, *which we can control* to maybe have CP divisions/limits for tournaments and organized fights)

XP parity is the issue here, not the system itself. I've said this time and again. Before, in PvP @Sypher, v14 was the cap. It was clearly defined and fairly easy to reach. The horrific XP gains you made in PVP didn't really matter much, since you could spend a couple of days and be done with it in PVE-land. The real contention, in my opinion, arises from PVP giving a tiny fraction of the experience gain that PVE activity does, including grinding which is currently by far and away the most effective way, but even PVE questing is far faster.

Balance out the XP gains across the game better, making PVP on an average 1 hour session grant around (action varies, as is the nature of PVP) the same XP as an average 1 hour session of pve mob grinding... and suddenly, the issue isn't that someone "could" have a higher level than you. It's what you have earned or not by PVP'ing. Then, if the power gap eventually plays out to generally be too big, that can be adjusted.

@Publius_Scipio , the answer is, you don't. You balance it so that people have the same general ability to earn those champion points in the first place. Then, if the amount of power they grant proves too much, you adjust that. Simply nerfing champion points is like a business meeting where the executives are saying, "We're spending too much money!" and jumping straight to "We need to earn more! Let's raise prices and stop spending anything entirely!" instead of "How can we reduce our operating costs?" first.

Your point that PvP XP needs to be increased is well made, but there's a problem. How does ZoS increase PvP XP in a way that's fair and doesn't create even worse balance problems than we have now? If they base it on AP, it's going to be a DISASTER, because some people earn 10,000+ AP per hour while others (like me, LOL) often earn ZERO. Maybe if they just based it on raw time spend "in combat", it would be more fair. Still, even that would be problematic because of all the forced horse riding after death...

k2blader · July 2015

Maybe folks who play a lot (say, 6+ dedicated hours per day) should just assume 75%+ of their opponents have fewer-- probably quite fewer-- CPs. The ones that may have near as many as you or more will be the ones with names you recognize.

I have 82 CPs. I'm sure most "old vets" have a decent bit more than that.

Sypher · July 2015

k2blader wrote: »

Maybe folks who play a lot (say, 6+ dedicated hours per day) should just assume 75%+ of their opponents have fewer-- probably quite fewer-- CPs. The ones that may have near as many as you or more will be the ones with names you recognize.

I have 82 CPs. I'm sure most "old vets" have a decent bit more than that.

CP gain isn't always reflective of how many hours you put in.

I play this game every single day for many many hours, it's basically a job for me. Yet there are people who play less, grind more, and have hundreds of CP more.

I really don't care who has how ever much CP. I've never been a min/maxer, never had all the passives, never upgraded my gear to gold. But I'd at least like to see how many points people have to be able to judge myself accordingly.

Zavus · July 2015

Sypher wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Maybe folks who play a lot (say, 6+ dedicated hours per day) should just assume 75%+ of their opponents have fewer-- probably quite fewer-- CPs. The ones that may have near as many as you or more will be the ones with names you recognize.

I have 82 CPs. I'm sure most "old vets" have a decent bit more than that.

CP gain isn't always reflective of how many hours you put in.

I play this game every single day for many many hours, it's basically a job for me. Yet there are people who play less, grind more, and have hundreds of CP more.

I really don't care who has how ever much CP. I've never been a min/maxer, never had all the passives, never upgraded my gear to gold. But I'd at least like to see how many points people have to be able to judge myself accordingly.

lol.

Sypher · July 2015

Zavus wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Maybe folks who play a lot (say, 6+ dedicated hours per day) should just assume 75%+ of their opponents have fewer-- probably quite fewer-- CPs. The ones that may have near as many as you or more will be the ones with names you recognize.

I have 82 CPs. I'm sure most "old vets" have a decent bit more than that.

CP gain isn't always reflective of how many hours you put in.

I play this game every single day for many many hours, it's basically a job for me. Yet there are people who play less, grind more, and have hundreds of CP more.

I really don't care who has how ever much CP. I've never been a min/maxer, never had all the passives, never upgraded my gear to gold. But I'd at least like to see how many points people have to be able to judge myself accordingly.

lol.

TheBull · July 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

BEZDNA wrote: »

Quantine wrote: »

If I put a lot of hours into PvP, which I do, I want to get at least the same progression as a zombie grinder... even better would be if I could get some benefit that gives an unique advantage in PvP for my time spent in PvP.. but that's utopia I guess...

So basicly you statment means "I want to get more benefit from doing what i like em enjoy and have fun from (PvP) over ppl who do dedicated boring existed grind". It is wrong by defult grind always was more rewarding way to achive your goal.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

When people playing PvP end up weaker than people grinding Goblins, you know something is pretty broken.

Pepele playing PvP end up stronger skill wise and on top of that they get AP and normal amount of CP, ppl who grind end up stronger stat wise, but don't get AP and lose there pvp skill.

Ezareth wrote: »

While no one is close 3600 yet, there are a good dozen people over 1000 CP now, probably more.

proof plz. All ppl calling that they have over 1k CP ended up with having like 400-600 cp, the highest i know personaly is 747 atm and that person is grinding 15-20 h per day.

Howeawer i belive that there are cood be 1 or 2, maybe 5 ppl with over 1000 cp on both EU and NA together, but i'm 100% sure they suxx hard in pvp and they don't put any imbalance to game which would be noticeble to everyone.

I've seen the proof from two people now who ahcieved the 300 champion point per tree achievements (must have 900 CP) some time ago and I know they're both amazing PvPers. If in my small circles there are two, I guarantee there are a good dozen out there.

15-20h a day of grinding if you knew how to grind would put you easily past 1000 CP. Good grinding puts you at 600-800 exp/hour. With exp pots you're at 850-1.2 Million an hour. That would give you 2-3 CP an hour and will net you 672 CP a month if you're grinding 12 hours a day with exp pots.

Personally I fall asleep by the end of my first EXP pot while grinding unless there is some PvP to distract me.

I think giving visibility to a players CP allows other players the chance to retain a bit of ego when fighting a player with a drastically higher CP rank than them. I don't think anyone here gets overly upset when some emperor 2-shots them and this would be similar. It also gives some bragging rights when defeating a player with a much higher CP rank etc.... similar to me killing V14 players on my V6 with 1000 weapon damage.

That's it systems broke scrap the whole thing.

GaldorP · July 2015

I support this idea. Maybe don't show the exact Champion Rank since some people might prefer to keep that info private, but something like Champion Rank 1-50/51-100/101-200/201-300/301-400/.../1001-1200/1201-1400/.../3401-3600.

Juraigr · July 2015

GaldorP wrote: »

I support this idea. Maybe don't show the exact Champion Rank since some people might prefer to keep that info private, but something like Champion Rank 1-50/51-100/101-200/201-300/301-400/.../1001-1200/1201-1400/.../3401-3600.

Nah I wanna know if i have to.fight.some guy with 400cp

Psilent · July 2015

The amount of salt and QQ in this thread, forums, zone chats, TS, and guilds over the Champion System is mind boggling. Who cares if someone has more CP than you? The sun will rise tomorrow, if it doesn't we have much bigger problems than worrying about some person grinding to 1000 champion points.

I have around 280 CP and I don't grind unless I'm very close to a point. I'm able to make decent builds and it'll only get easier. I just play the game and have fun. If I get killed in PvP, so what? I just rez and run back. For example, yesterday on Chillrend at Faregyl a group of like 12 sorcs was assaulting the castle. I targetted one named Aetchsberries or something and realized they must have all champion points into fire resist, so I decided to just test damage on her/him. Must have died like 20 times to that group, but had a blast. If I was grinding, I wouldn't be having fun.

TL;DR don't worry about CP, just play the game and have fun!

ThyIronFist · July 2015

If you want to completely screw a game and its playerbase over and make everything unbalanced then the champion system is the way to go! There must be a catch-up system else the difference in players will become way too big, and returning players like me and some of my friends will just leave the game again and this time probably permanently. Within months, years even some people will have way more CPs than others. I'm sitting on 157 champion points as I've been away from the game for 3 months but came back a few weeks ago, there are players with twice as much, and even way more CPs than I have - resulting in better passives, more damage, higher resistances and a bigger resource pool. Granted, the difference is not that big yet, but like I said just wait a few more months or years.

Dueling people that have hundreds more CPs than I have is almost completely pointless if they're about as equally skilled.

Psilent wrote: »

The amount of salt and QQ in this thread, forums, zone chats, TS, and guilds over the Champion System is mind boggling. Who cares if someone has more CP than you? The sun will rise tomorrow, if it doesn't we have much bigger problems than worrying about some person grinding to 1000 champion points.

I have around 280 CP and I don't grind unless I'm very close to a point. I'm able to make decent builds and it'll only get easier. I just play the game and have fun. If I get killed in PvP, so what? I just rez and run back. For example, yesterday on Chillrend at Faregyl a group of like 12 sorcs was assaulting the castle. I targetted one named Aetchsberries or something and realized they must have all champion points into fire resist, so I decided to just test damage on her/him. Must have died like 20 times to that group, but had a blast. If I was grinding, I wouldn't be having fun.

TL;DR don't worry about CP, just play the game and have fun!

You seem to completely miss the point of why people complain about the CP system but please continue your clueless arguments.

Psilent · July 2015

ThyIronFist wrote: »

If you want to completely screw a game and its playerbase over and make everything unbalanced then the champion system is the way to go! There must be a catch-up system else the difference in players will become way too big, and returning players like me and some of my friends will just leave the game again and this time probably permanently. Within months, years even some people will have way more CPs than others. I'm sitting on 157 champion points as I've been away from the game for 3 months but came back a few weeks ago, there are players with twice as much, and even way more CPs than I have - resulting in better passives, more damage, higher resistances and a bigger resource pool. Granted, the difference is not that big yet, but like I said just wait a few more months or years.

Dueling people that have hundreds more CPs than I have is almost completely pointless if they're about as equally skilled.

Psilent wrote: »

The amount of salt and QQ in this thread, forums, zone chats, TS, and guilds over the Champion System is mind boggling. Who cares if someone has more CP than you? The sun will rise tomorrow, if it doesn't we have much bigger problems than worrying about some person grinding to 1000 champion points.

I have around 280 CP and I don't grind unless I'm very close to a point. I'm able to make decent builds and it'll only get easier. I just play the game and have fun. If I get killed in PvP, so what? I just rez and run back. For example, yesterday on Chillrend at Faregyl a group of like 12 sorcs was assaulting the castle. I targetted one named Aetchsberries or something and realized they must have all champion points into fire resist, so I decided to just test damage on her/him. Must have died like 20 times to that group, but had a blast. If I was grinding, I wouldn't be having fun.

TL;DR don't worry about CP, just play the game and have fun!

You seem to completely miss the point of why people complain about the CP system but please continue your clueless arguments.

Enlighten me ? Haha get it? Haha.

In WoW I had to run the same raids over and over for progression or PvP in the same battlegrounds over and over. Here I can do whatever I want and advance my character. I can even level an alt and still advance my main!

It's very obvious they are going to add a catch up system. So why bother worrying/complaining, just go out and have fun; let the developers worry about it. It's what they are paid to do anyway.

hammayolettuce · July 2015

I will never understand these topics... no matter what ZOS does there will always be someone with more CP than you. Honestly if people are so worried about running into that .05% player population with way more CP than you, then you have more to be concerned about.

Just play the game and accept it for what it is.

JDar · July 2015

If there were new quests to do to earn cp that mite b cool too

Psilent · July 2015

hammayolettuce wrote: »

I will never understand these topics... no matter what ZOS does there will always be someone with more CP than you. Honestly if people are so worried about running into that .05% player population with way more CP than you, then you have more to be concerned about.

Just play the game and accept it for what it is.

People complain about everything in this game. Just kick back and have fun! Don't worry about CP!

blabafat · July 2015

CAP CP AT 360 IN CYRODIIL!

360 is a PERFECT number. It's not too high; a lot of players are already right around that number. They are not unkillable, and they are not OP. 360 also allows you to get a 120 point passive in each section (Warrior, Mage, Thief).

Right now, ZoS might not think this is necessary. However, 1 year from now, people will have at LEAST 1000 champion points. Fights will go on forever. New players will not stand a chance.

Observant · July 2015

blabafat wrote: »

CAP CP AT 360 IN CYRODIIL!

360 is a PERFECT number. It's not too high; a lot of players are already right around that number. They are not unkillable, and they are not OP. 360 also allows you to get a 120 point passive in each section (Warrior, Mage, Thief).

Right now, ZoS might not think this is necessary. However, 1 year from now, people will have at LEAST 1000 champion points. Fights will go on forever. New players will not stand a chance.

We like to be reactive around here, not proactive.

Take your logical thinking elsewhere

Psilent · July 2015

Observant wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

CAP CP AT 360 IN CYRODIIL!

360 is a PERFECT number. It's not too high; a lot of players are already right around that number. They are not unkillable, and they are not OP. 360 also allows you to get a 120 point passive in each section (Warrior, Mage, Thief).

Right now, ZoS might not think this is necessary. However, 1 year from now, people will have at LEAST 1000 champion points. Fights will go on forever. New players will not stand a chance.

We like to be reactive around here, not proactive.

Take your logical thinking elsewhere

Would be cool to have a 360 CP campaign.

Artemiisia · July 2015

Sypher wrote: »

Make CP rank visible.

Example:
Sypher Ali (Vet 14: 303 CP)

I'd like to know when I'm going against people with 30 CP or 1000 CP.

just think if you have 500 CP at one point and a 30 CP player beats you in a duel, the self esteem will drop to a whole new low

Juraigr · July 2015

Wtb 1.4 pvp