Bolt Escape / Dodge / Blocking / Shields Nerf

Phoenix99 · July 2015

Bashev wrote: »

Don't you think that all these changes will encourage zerging even more?

how? it actually made siege weapon even better zerg buster now. (because siege weapons did not get nerf in dmg, while other forms of dmg and dmg mitigation did)

Erock25 · July 2015

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I love the amount of tunnel vision that's in this thread. People read "-50% shield strength" and scream "SORC NERF OMG" without reading "-50% to ALL damage" which pretty much balances it out.

Seriously, are whiners even trying anymore?

Shields will take exactly as much damage as they do now which sounds good to me. If they really want to remove the escape portion of Bolt Escape, they should at least set it to 33% penalty. That way, three consecutive Bolt Escapes will be the same cost as three consecutive Bolt Escapes now, but when you start hitting 4, 5, 6+ is when your magicka will really get hit hard. Cloak MUST get the same treatment though. Countering Cloak with AOE isn't an option with the pitiful radius of magicka AOE in this game. Radiant Magelight radius is too small and Revealing Flare is a joke. Without Detect Pots working on Cloak, it is basically a 100% fight reset.

InvictoNZ · July 2015

Easy fix nerf to balance NB with the rest of the fixed nerfed classes

Make cloak / invis / hide require line of sight checks. If anything can line of sight you, you cannot use these abilities.
(watch the server die from adding more line of sight checks).

Minnesinger · July 2015

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Any news about racial passive changes?

Copied this from Tamriel Foundry:

"Racial passives talked about (short term changes)-

Argonian,
Buffed the amount of magicka and stamina received when drinking a potion.

Khajiit,
Critical strike chance will be increased further.

Nord,
Bonus health given to make them more Tanky.

Orc,
4% melee damage bonus instead of the charge bonus."

As a side note, I am used to nerfs and all games go through the same progress. I really hope something good comes out of this. You know UC beta is just around the corner....

ThatHappyCat · July 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I love the amount of tunnel vision that's in this thread. People read "-50% shield strength" and scream "SORC NERF OMG" without reading "-50% to ALL damage" which pretty much balances it out.

Seriously, are whiners even trying anymore?

Shields will take exactly as much damage as they do now which sounds good to me. If they really want to remove the escape portion of Bolt Escape, they should at least set it to 33% penalty. That way, three consecutive Bolt Escapes will be the same cost as three consecutive Bolt Escapes now, but when you start hitting 4, 5, 6+ is when your magicka will really get hit hard. Cloak MUST get the same treatment though. Countering Cloak with AOE isn't an option with the pitiful radius of magicka AOE in this game. Radiant Magelight radius is too small and Revealing Flare is a joke. Without Detect Pots working on Cloak, it is basically a 100% fight reset.

Revealing Flare is indeed a joke but I don't feel like Cloak is too hard to counter at all...? It's not like NBs can Bolt Escape to a completely different location while cloaked, with a bit of educated guesswork you can blast them out of it.

Given that a magicka NB's defence pretty much revolves around Cloak it shouldn't be trivial to nullify.

Erock25 · July 2015

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I love the amount of tunnel vision that's in this thread. People read "-50% shield strength" and scream "SORC NERF OMG" without reading "-50% to ALL damage" which pretty much balances it out.

Seriously, are whiners even trying anymore?

Shields will take exactly as much damage as they do now which sounds good to me. If they really want to remove the escape portion of Bolt Escape, they should at least set it to 33% penalty. That way, three consecutive Bolt Escapes will be the same cost as three consecutive Bolt Escapes now, but when you start hitting 4, 5, 6+ is when your magicka will really get hit hard. Cloak MUST get the same treatment though. Countering Cloak with AOE isn't an option with the pitiful radius of magicka AOE in this game. Radiant Magelight radius is too small and Revealing Flare is a joke. Without Detect Pots working on Cloak, it is basically a 100% fight reset.

Revealing Flare is indeed a joke but I don't feel like Cloak is too hard to counter at all...? It's not like NBs can Bolt Escape to a completely different location while cloaked, with a bit of educated guesswork you can blast them out of it.

Given that a magicka NB's defence pretty much revolves around Cloak it shouldn't be trivial to nullify.

And giving it a 33% stacking cost increase will not kill the skill.

ksimpscnub18_ESO · July 2015

this is so dumb. why would they disable defensive maneuvers essentially and then just slap a flat damage reduction in cyro. ew

cozmon3c_ESO · July 2015

Bolt escape nerf is going to totally F over Stam sorcs even more then they already were F'ed. Glad Eric wrobel has a handle on making stam sorc changes that are absolutely useless FOR STAM SORC!

Force-Siphon · July 2015

LOL NB rerolls incoming...

For real tho sorcs should hold out on judgement til the PTS because nirn is also getting reworked along with the other changes. It's only a matter of time before cloak gets the Nerf treatment and it will be exposed in the pts so maybe they will not be totally stupid and put cost increase on that too....I guess I shouldn't hold my breath tho....

ksimpscnub18_ESO · July 2015

Force-Siphon wrote: »

LOL NB rerolls incoming...

For real tho sorcs should hold out on judgement til the PTS because nirn is also getting reworked along with the other changes. It's only a matter of time before cloak gets the Nerf treatment and it will be exposed in the pts so maybe they will not be totally stupid and put cost increase on that too....I guess I shouldn't hold my breath tho....

lets clarify, magicka NB abound now

Lava_Croft · July 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Overall, I'm very happy with what we've heard so far, as they seem to be fixing many of the broken things in this game across the board.

It seems to me that people are tunnelvisioning on their own playstyle and how these changes affect it, without seeing the big picture.

No instagibbing (damage taken reduced)
No permablocking
No infinite roll dodge
Damage shields 5% weaker(?) [Damage taken goes from -20% to -50%, meaning damaging abilities are 30% weaker than currently, while Shields/Heals go from -15% to -50%, meaning they're 35% weaker than currently]

Pardon me, but isn't this what people have been asking for?

Cloak should get the Bolt Escape treatment though.

And Bolt Escape the Cloak treatment? Will be fun!

Phoenix99 · July 2015

ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »

this is so dumb. why would they disable defensive maneuvers essentially and then just slap a flat damage reduction in cyro. ew

because with capless system and no Cooldonws on skill usage, mobility is the king in PvP. If you have near endless reasources due to power grind for yellow items and champ points, plus super food and potions, it makes repositioning skills unbalanced. There needs to be some hamstring cuts to those skills.... especially when you face classes without repositioning abilities like DK/templar vs sorc or dodge rolling builds in small skirmishes, which effectively encouraged people to group more and zerg more and when already in the past there was a nerf to mist form, exactly for the same reasons.

Mr_Nobody · July 2015

Either most of you have the wrong side of your brain working or I dont get it why are you QQ'ing about Sorcs. Read it carefully, as it was stated they are going to decrease shields from 15 or 20% to 50% as well as add additional stam costs / nerfs to block & rolldodge, that all with 50% damage reduction.

Now if you used your brain cells to think of *it* instead of going into QQ mode instantly, you would use 3rd grade math skills and think of...

30-35% shield decrease in total ~

...

with 50% damage reduction ~

Now, mathematically, survivability wise as for shields, sorcs are the only class to get a boost. I know, I know... BE nerfs. Well, it had to be done. Sorcs will atleast have to manage the timer between bolting, this shouldnt be hard.

Now if you take, for example, Templars - they are the ones to get yet another nerf hammer to all sides, especially magicka one. Stamina (Blocktards) DKs will rot in hell, and magicka ones that are *Skaffa* type, will shine even more and thats all because of the built-in heals that are not affected by heal reduction. Stamina NBs will remain the same and just take Sorcs place to get better at dodge management. Magicka NBs will shine.

Good changes overall, lower TTK, more skill involved to survive and outplay an opponent - as well as much easier to kill the one that does not know what to do and used to hold the mouse button to act like hes good.

Cant wait to see them live! ~

ksimpscnub18_ESO · July 2015

Phoenix99 wrote: »

ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »

this is so dumb. why would they disable defensive maneuvers essentially and then just slap a flat damage reduction in cyro. ew

because with capless system and no Cooldonws on skill usage, mobility is the king in PvP. If you have near endless reasources due to power grind for yellow items and champ points, plus super food and potions, it makes repositioning skills unbalanced. There needs to be some hamstring cuts to those skills.... especially when you face classes without repositioning abilities like DK/templar vs sorc or dodge rolling builds in small skirmishes, which effectively encouraged people to group more and zerg more and when already in the past there was a nerf to mist form, exactly for the same reasons.

re positioning skills being imbalanced has absolutely nothing to do with blocking.

Yiko · July 2015

I like these changes on paper. Should make players' decisions more meaningful.

Dagoth_Rac · July 2015

Don't forget that a huge amount of the meta in PvP is about avoiding getting killed in half a second (or, on the flip side, being the person who does the killing in half a second). With the 50% damage nerf, that will be far less of an issue. The entire meta is going to change so much that concern about how it affects your current tactics is a bad way to look at it. With 50% reduced damage, the need to roll dodge nonstop and bolt escape nonstop and shield stack up to your eyeballs will not be as crucial to PvP gameplay. Because all of that is a reaction to how hard and how quickly you can take damage. And you will not be taking that kind of damage anymore.

Phoenix99 · July 2015

ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »

Phoenix99 wrote: »

ksimpscnub18_ESO wrote: »

this is so dumb. why would they disable defensive maneuvers essentially and then just slap a flat damage reduction in cyro. ew

because with capless system and no Cooldonws on skill usage, mobility is the king in PvP. If you have near endless reasources due to power grind for yellow items and champ points, plus super food and potions, it makes repositioning skills unbalanced. There needs to be some hamstring cuts to those skills.... especially when you face classes without repositioning abilities like DK/templar vs sorc or dodge rolling builds in small skirmishes, which effectively encouraged people to group more and zerg more and when already in the past there was a nerf to mist form, exactly for the same reasons.

re positioning skills being imbalanced has absolutely nothing to do with blocking.

I see nothing bad to the change. It goes in balance to overall dmg output and dmg mitigation nerfs. Block should never be the strat it became. It should be a purpose of timely blocked CCs and _temporary_ dmg reduction. Again, it is good that it sees some nerfs, as it was overdue with the removal of caps

ksimpscnub18_ESO · July 2015

Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »

so Sorcs lose survivability, nbs lose rolling, dks lose block casting. everybody roll templar, jesus beam and heals, nothing but jesus beams and heals.

MOAR

Master_Kas · July 2015

Lol. To the sorcs crying to give cloak same treatment as bolt :

Lets make some skill make you unable to bolt (like piercing mark does to cloak) and on top of that, so AoE damage stops you from bolting.

Overall good nerfs. Shieldstackers, permarollers and permablockers tears taste good.

Ace_SiN · July 2015

Can we get a full list of all the PvP changes? I'm going through like a million different posts and finding different bits of info..

ksimpscnub18_ESO · July 2015

Yuke wrote: »

WOW this is so RIP TESO. WTF are they thinking?!

Hahaha this must be a joke.....so only Meta left is magicka nbs proxi detonating things out of cloak. I cant believe what i am reading here...

it is very smh and ew my friend

Ffastyl · July 2015

Ace_SiN wrote: »

Can we get a full list of all the PvP changes? I'm going through like a million different posts and finding different bits of info..

The best source for it is to rewatch ESO Live here:

http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/6855053

Ezareth · July 2015

Welcome to the Elder Rolls Online.

Do you really think a 33% cost increase to roll dodge is going to hurt? It doesn't hurt my NB playstyle at all at VR4.

Sorcs got nerfed far more than any other class here. Graph a 50% increasing curve and compare it to a 33%.

Healing ward and crit surge just got double nerfed.

Shields got nerfed further which makes the opportunity cost of using them(a GCD) much more expensive. Health becomes far more powerful now along with *passive* defenses. Guess who has high passive defenses and health pools? Not sorcs for sure. Which defensive ability has its own separate GCD? Not bolt escape.

Just so much terrible decision making on Zeni's part I wish my first time quitting had been my last. At least then I'd still have fond memories of this game.

ToRelax · July 2015

Garion wrote: »

If this change goes through - and I am sure it will - I will quit the game. It's excessive and an obvious attempt to cater to the casual and QQers who lack the skill to kill sorcs. Based on everything I just heard in that stream, it is pretty obvious they Zenimax do not have a f^cking clue.

This. Not even reading further, at least that made it clear I'll quit sooner than expected.

DisgracefulMind · July 2015

First and foremost, the bolt escape nerf will suck, but I do feel it was necessary. Perhaps not such a severe

Sypher wrote: »

The 50% increase to bolt escape will now stack indefinitely after every repeated streak.

Dodge Roll will have a 33% increase to cost after every dodge.

You no longer regen stamina while blocking.

Battle Spirit Buff: 50% Reduced Damage and 50% Reduced Healing 50% Reduced Shields (Increased from 20%)

Discuss.

First and foremost, the bolt escape nerf will suck, but I do feel it was necessary. Perhaps not such a severe cost penalty, I would have preferred they added on 10% increased cost per consecutive cast, that way sorcerers can still have a viable escape, but can't do it forever. I find it entirely too harsh that they're nerfing a class escape this aggresively, but we'll see.

Second, I'm not sure why dodge roll didn't receive the same treatment as bolt escape. Dodge rollers can dodge roll way longer than a sorc can bolt. And I don't want to hear this "stamina builds do EVERYTHING with stamina!!" because sorcerers also do EVERYTHING with their magicka. Both infinite escape metas needed a nerf, but it should have been an equal one.

Third, I knew that when they would go to nerf sorcerer shields (and we all knew it would happen), they would also impact Blazing Shield. ZoS needs to rework Blazing Shield to scale off of the player's highest stat. That way both magicka users and stamina users can use it effectively, and even tanks (who put tons into health) can also use it. Just my opinion on the matter. With this nerf, it's entirely useless in PvP, and that's sad.

Now, the part that makes me really upset: stamina regen being cut off while blocking. What is the actual point of this!? This is going to hurt players in PvE immensely. And yes, I'm not worried about the permablock builds in PvP, you are all crap players anyways, and good players know when to time their blocks, so this won't be an issue. But what about in PvE? What about tanks!? Are they supposed to drop their block for some stamina while they're holding a major boss in trials!? Or axes in AA? Or pretty much everything? They should make this stamina regen thing only be a Cyrodiil thing, really, they should.

Phoenix99 · July 2015

Sorc do not use magicka to break CC and block, so your argument is invalid.

kevlarto_ESO · July 2015

At this time all this is speculation, on how bad things will play, it might be all the gloom and doom I see here and it might not, they said it would be going to the PTS, maybe after we have a chance to play it we can form a decision based on fact and not knee jerk reactions.

LegendaryMage · July 2015

I don't really care about the bolt nerf, dodge nerf, block nerf, I'm there to fight and not run. However, what I do think will be OP (having fought a couple of such players) are perma cloak NBs, at least in small scale. They are too strong and cloak won't be nearly as 'broken' once they fix these things as some people seem to think. Didn't Eric say you won't be able to take people out of cloak that easy?

AOEs, you can forget about that. Detection pots, you can forget about that. Streak, you can forget about that. Boundless storm, you can forget about that too, it doesn't work always when they get distance on you (one snare is enough to offset this counter).

Radiant mage light, 2 slots (would rather make it a standalone cast skill tbh), that other NB skill they talk about (mark?), forget about that too if it's purgable, and a magica NB will never run out of magica.

With this nirn nerf, magica NBs will be the best performers in pvp by far (I will probably have to incorporate radiant magelight just for them, and even then I don't think it might be a viable counter if they can keep you snared and keep distance on you).

So basically, cloak will be the single most OP skill in the game after this patch. I already fought perma cloakers and they are annoying as they are, let alone after this patch. Don't say I didn't warn you...

Ezareth · July 2015

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

At this time all this is speculation, on how bad things will play, it might be all the gloom and doom I see here and it might not, they said it would be going to the PTS, maybe after we have a chance to play it we can form a decision based on fact and not knee jerk reactions.

That argument might have worked 6 months ago. We've been waiting since launch for actual PvP content....not this garbage.

https://youtu.be/Ks8_KGHqmO4

RedTalon · July 2015

Why am I glad to be a heavy armor type now