PVP Update, June 2015

pmn100b16_ESO · June 2015

So after several months to a whole year of players saying AoE spamming is causing the server lag, in brief ZoS has:

1. reduced population caps
2. removed deer
3. removed torch bugs
4. reduced population caps again
5. looked at the coding of AoE skills to see if anything is amiss

In that order?

Agrippa_Invisus · June 2015

Garion wrote: »

Pecivilis wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

[*] Battle Leveling: The Battle Leveling system has been updated to include Veteran Ranks. Players that opt into Battle Leveling will be roughly equivalent in power to a VR14 player in moderate-quality gear.
[*] Elder Scrolls & Gates: A fix is in the works that will prevent enemy player characters from getting through the Elder Scroll Gates while the gates are closed. (Gate jumpers beware. Your days are numbered.) Also, a new protective barrier will now surround the Elder Scrolls while in their temples, if the Elder Scroll Gates are closed. This barrier will drop if the gate opens.
[/list]

I am for all of it except these two things, and let me explain why.

First I will start with the Scrolls and Gates, I concede that Gate jumpers (those with the ability [ DKs and NBS] to target and selectively jump to Guards standing on top of the gates thus allowing them access behind) are a problem and exploiting certain game mechanics and need to be stopped.

However, the barrier around the scrolls while the games are closed give me pause for concern because it nixes a well oiled strategy that has proven effective for under-populated factions to still grab scrolls...what I am talking about is this : Somehow your Faction manages to open a gate and try to storm the temple, however you quickly get out numbered and beaten back and or wiped...however a few intrepid players sneak off behind enemy lines and wait, patiently for the opportune moment to strike again, usually after things have calmed and the gate is closed. In my eyes this isn't an exploit, this is a valid time honored tactic.. this is strategy and espionage at it's finest....the same as hiding in a keep after a wipe to be an annoying *** and play the flute in a taunting manner whilst the enemy looks for you.

That's just my opinion on the matter.

But I have a very salty gripe with this newest Buff to battle leveling...this is babying and catering to newbies and casuals at it's finest...and quite honestly a hunk of bollocks....[snip]

However, to me this is same same time of "everyone gets a trophy, everyone should be equal" *** mentality that the world has now. Not everyone gets a trophy, not everyone is equal and giving these players a crutch like this is a smack to the real VR14s....PvP by nature is a competitive thing, and the only way to get good at it is working at it, not being coddled and handed major buffs like that automatically put you on even footing with most of the vr14s out there.

/rant

+1 to both points. The battle levelling one concerns me a lot. In my mind, the only people it will benefit are the tons of noobs who run in huge zergs (not trains, zergs). This will make them harder to kill... not a good thing when you're dealing with 50+ players. PvP should be challenging, and you should have to work at it. [snip]

Stating that "PvP should be challenging, and you should have to work at it." in the same breath as asking that subV14 characters remain far less competitive than fully geared V14s smacks of hypocrisy.

Making the nonV14s harder to kill and more able to contribute will make PVP harder and more challenging for all those V14s that are already out there, which will make it more challenging and competitive. Why don't you welcome that?

Being V14 is purely a check on how much time one has to devote to the game. There's no skill in grinding mobs or Cadwell's quests. This is a meaningless determiner of how 'skilled' a player is.

Gearing is a similar time management check -- do you have the materials or money to get the equipment you need / want? How many V11s equip a full Legendary set of gear with V14 just around the corner?

So what if a V3 with the upcoming new battle level system beats you? If his damage output and survivability is in the neighborhood of your own and he wins, isn't it skill / build that determined the winner? Not simple math due to your shiny legendary weapons and his green lowbie gear?

Or would you just rather keep the roflstomp happening?

[edited to remove quote]

driosketch · June 2015

Garion wrote: »

Pecivilis wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

[*] Battle Leveling: The Battle Leveling system has been updated to include Veteran Ranks. Players that opt into Battle Leveling will be roughly equivalent in power to a VR14 player in moderate-quality gear.
[*] Elder Scrolls & Gates: A fix is in the works that will prevent enemy player characters from getting through the Elder Scroll Gates while the gates are closed. (Gate jumpers beware. Your days are numbered.) Also, a new protective barrier will now surround the Elder Scrolls while in their temples, if the Elder Scroll Gates are closed. This barrier will drop if the gate opens.
[/list]

I am for all of it except these two things, and let me explain why.

First I will start with the Scrolls and Gates, I concede that Gate jumpers (those with the ability [ DKs and NBS] to target and selectively jump to Guards standing on top of the gates thus allowing them access behind) are a problem and exploiting certain game mechanics and need to be stopped.

However, the barrier around the scrolls while the games are closed give me pause for concern because it nixes a well oiled strategy that has proven effective for under-populated factions to still grab scrolls...what I am talking about is this : Somehow your Faction manages to open a gate and try to storm the temple, however you quickly get out numbered and beaten back and or wiped...however a few intrepid players sneak off behind enemy lines and wait, patiently for the opportune moment to strike again, usually after things have calmed and the gate is closed. In my eyes this isn't an exploit, this is a valid time honored tactic.. this is strategy and espionage at it's finest....the same as hiding in a keep after a wipe to be an annoying *** and play the flute in a taunting manner whilst the enemy looks for you.

That's just my opinion on the matter.

But I have a very salty gripe with this newest Buff to battle leveling...this is babying and catering to newbies and casuals at it's finest...and quite honestly a hunk of bollocks....[snip]

However, to me this is same same time of "everyone gets a trophy, everyone should be equal" *** mentality that the world has now. Not everyone gets a trophy, not everyone is equal and giving these players a crutch like this is a smack to the real VR14s....PvP by nature is a competitive thing, and the only way to get good at it is working at it, not being coddled and handed major buffs like that automatically put you on even footing with most of the vr14s out there.

/rant

+1 to both points. The battle levelling one concerns me a lot. In my mind, the only people it will benefit are the tons of noobs who run in huge zergs (not trains, zergs). This will make them harder to kill... not a good thing when you're dealing with 50+ players. PvP should be challenging, and you should have to work at it. [snip]

We already battle level non vets to the point that a VR1 is weaker than you were are 49. This is really something that should have been done as soon as they started to add new Vet Ranks. Letting the power gap grow too wide without so much as a tier system hurts the long term growth of PvP. Also hope it will help bring more new blood on side of the faction with the lowest pop.

[edited to remove quote]

Crown · June 2015

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm insanely confused on your stance. You guys are rotating leaderboards on Azuras on purpose to crown emp...emp farming. In fact, AT THIS MOMENT, an ad guild is about to pvdoor crown YOU emp. You guys are part of the problem by doing that nonsense. DC on Azuras are desperately trying to get emp, in fact 9/10 people on the leaderboard, have never had emp, where almost EVERY person on the AD/EP leaderboards have had emp, if not multiple times. I'm not gonna sit here and take your comments seriously when you are part of the direct problem.

I've been emp more than a few times. An AD guild crowned me this morning, and I'll play as Emperor this evening until red comes with an 80 person zerg and lag flips the last keep. The exact same thing that has happend the last three times I've been emperor.

Most on the board have been emp once or twice. Why? They're all my group mates or people I run with in other guilds who all know how to get points. Making points is not cheating, and most of the time we're working for the betterment of the campaign, though at times we'll sit and kill (farm) any opponents who come to us at a contested location.

Without a few other guilds participating in this campaign (Decibel often does though hasn't been running a lot lately), if I didn't step down (drop campaign) or play an alt, it is excessively unlikely that more than a handful of other players could pass me on the leader board (if I'm trying to make points). This is a fact, and has been proven over the past ten campaigns. I often move away from ticks, don't get the delve boss buff when others do, and sometimes play an alt so that other people can have the fun (and passives) of being emp. Do you want only one person of each faction to ever be emperor? I certainly don't. When I'm emperor I feel obliged to stay in the campaign and defend it. No matter how long I keep it. I'd much rather not have to worry about it and just play without the constant whispers and whining of people demanding things. At the same time, I want to make points and advance the PvP rank of my group (alliance 24 / skill rank 10) to make them more powerful, and I'm well along the way to my goal of Legate (about 6 million AP away).

It seems to me that most of the people who are complaining are the ones who have never been emperor nor are they likely to without the help and cooperation of people like me. Yes, I do have an ego, though in this case most people will agree that I've proven myself as the leader of a group who can make more AP than most others.

If DC are trying to get emp, let them come out and fight. In the past few days I've seen some great groups on their own (NPK and one other who I never learned the name of). A second group coordinating at different locations on the map and they would have crowned a few times by now.

So tell me, how will removing the former emperor buffs change anything for you? Will that stop me from making points? Not at all. Will it make me want to help you get emperor for a pretty colour and title? Not at all. What incentive does it give people to change their activities? None at all. The only thing that will change is you'll have a select few people who keep emperor to themselves all the time as opposed to helping other good people to get it and achieve one more little thing in the game. Right now, the passives make me WANT to help everyone who has not gotten it achieve it. Without the passives, there's no value in it, and no incentive for more people to come into PvP with that as a goal.

If you were a new player, and came to me asking to join the guild and group, and asked for my advice on how to achieve Emperor, I would happily spend a few minutes assuring that you're either a competent player and/or able to learn. I would spend time helping you make/farm the best sets of optimized gear for your build - and to determine what build would best support the group. If you played with the group consistently as of a campaign reset, you'd be on the leader board. If there were some of us ahead of you when we were about to crown, then most of us would drop campaign for you. Why? Because we're good people who want to help others become the best that they can and achieve things that will help them and help the group in future.

You may hate me due to jealousy or because you're in another faction and I've led the group that wiped you a few hundred times (or you were one of the ten people that I spent about a half hour killing over and over at Warden yesterday), though as we see it, that's not a reason to hate. @Methuselah has wiped my group about twice as often as we've wiped his. I consider him an honoured opponent, and we chat at times. ShadowStep has killed me more often than anyone else - he's one of the better NB gankers and targets a single individual before stealthing away. When I wanted to learn more about how he does so, I asked, and we spent about 20 minutes discussing strategy in TS. I believe I taught him something interesting, and I learned a lot from him. He's someone I hate running into in game (as I'm dead before I know he's there), but I respect his skill as a player and appreciate learning something every time he kills me.

Pecivilis · June 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Pecivilis wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

[*] Battle Leveling: The Battle Leveling system has been updated to include Veteran Ranks. Players that opt into Battle Leveling will be roughly equivalent in power to a VR14 player in moderate-quality gear.
[*] Elder Scrolls & Gates: A fix is in the works that will prevent enemy player characters from getting through the Elder Scroll Gates while the gates are closed. (Gate jumpers beware. Your days are numbered.) Also, a new protective barrier will now surround the Elder Scrolls while in their temples, if the Elder Scroll Gates are closed. This barrier will drop if the gate opens.
[/list]

I am for all of it except these two things, and let me explain why.

First I will start with the Scrolls and Gates, I concede that Gate jumpers (those with the ability [ DKs and NBS] to target and selectively jump to Guards standing on top of the gates thus allowing them access behind) are a problem and exploiting certain game mechanics and need to be stopped.

However, the barrier around the scrolls while the games are closed give me pause for concern because it nixes a well oiled strategy that has proven effective for under-populated factions to still grab scrolls...what I am talking about is this : Somehow your Faction manages to open a gate and try to storm the temple, however you quickly get out numbered and beaten back and or wiped...however a few intrepid players sneak off behind enemy lines and wait, patiently for the opportune moment to strike again, usually after things have calmed and the gate is closed. In my eyes this isn't an exploit, this is a valid time honored tactic.. this is strategy and espionage at it's finest....the same as hiding in a keep after a wipe to be an annoying *** and play the flute in a taunting manner whilst the enemy looks for you.

That's just my opinion on the matter.

But I have a very salty gripe with this newest Buff to battle leveling...this is babying and catering to newbies and casuals at it's finest...and quite honestly a hunk of bollocks....[snip]

However, to me this is same same time of "everyone gets a trophy, everyone should be equal" *** mentality that the world has now. Not everyone gets a trophy, not everyone is equal and giving these players a crutch like this is a smack to the real VR14s....PvP by nature is a competitive thing, and the only way to get good at it is working at it, not being coddled and handed major buffs like that automatically put you on even footing with most of the vr14s out there.

/rant

+1 to both points. The battle levelling one concerns me a lot. In my mind, the only people it will benefit are the tons of noobs who run in huge zergs (not trains, zergs). This will make them harder to kill... not a good thing when you're dealing with 50+ players. PvP should be challenging, and you should have to work at it. [snip]

Stating that "PvP should be challenging, and you should have to work at it." in the same breath as asking that subV14 characters remain far less competitive than fully geared V14s smacks of hypocrisy.

Making the nonV14s harder to kill and more able to contribute will make PVP harder and more challenging for all those V14s that are already out there, which will make it more challenging and competitive. Why don't you welcome that?

Being V14 is purely a check on how much time one has to devote to the game. There's no skill in grinding mobs or Cadwell's quests. This is a meaningless determiner of how 'skilled' a player is.

Gearing is a similar time management check -- do you have the materials or money to get the equipment you need / want? How many V11s equip a full Legendary set of gear with V14 just around the corner?

So what if a V3 with the upcoming new battle level system beats you? If his damage output and survivability is in the neighborhood of your own and he wins, isn't it skill / build that determined the winner? Not simple math due to your shiny legendary weapons and his green lowbie gear?

Or would you just rather keep the roflstomp happening?

My main gripe center's around the fact that I stand by the motto of " You want something? Then work for it. Because nothing in life should just be handed to you." Simple as that, this is how the real world works too...or at least should...you want that trophy? work for it...you want that raise / better job...work for it...

You want to stand toe to toe with someone that actually made the effort to get to where he/she is (VR14)...work for it!

I felt the same way many years ago when during the Burning Crusade X-Pac Blizzard took away the necessity for Keys for their late-End Game Raids and nerfed everything due to casuals whining about it. At least back then I got the consolation prize of the "Hand of A'dal" title for actually stepping up with my guild and completing the content while it was still hard.

[edited to remove quote]

Makkir · June 2015

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i am very happy to see the removal of former emperor buff when you are not an emperor.
if it was so insignificant and weak then people would not have stayed awake for 3 days in a row just to get said buff.
that 2% did alot more then people are admiting.
it's removal is part of the reason i might be returning to eso.
please dont change your mind on the removal of the "former emperor buff"

It'll be good to have you, and your friends if possible, back to ESO. I am always pleased to see players returning.

Makkir · June 2015

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Been away for a few months and I've got to say, these look like really good changes. Have these changes been implemented yet, or are they still in the works?

@Lord_Draevan next content patch. Since you do not need a sub to play, I have been recommending to others just to farm gold in the meantime or collect skyshards. When new item sets are released, assuming they are not bound, having that extra gold can help you pick up nice sets rather quickly.

Makkir · June 2015

Cogo wrote: »

lottasay_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have no plans for Battlegrounds or Arenas at this time with "flag matches" or death-match mechanics, however our play-tests of a certain zone that resides in the center of Cyrodiil has scratched a very specific itch...

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Why? This should be a top priority if you want to appeal to the World of Warcraft fanbase.... I myself played WoW for 6 years and play it very much on PC. I feel that ESO can become the premier console MMO if they include all the expectations that come with ex-PC MMO players.

If you want to appeal to the World of Warcraft fanbase? Why on earth would they do a silly thing like that? Every game that tried to be an WoW copy failed. ESO is ESO. Unique.

Keep arenas out of ESO, please.

Precisely. A lot of us came to ESO to get away from WoW. Making another WoW reskin is a sure way to lose a lot of subscribers. If WoW was so great, we'd still be playing it.

Pecivilis · June 2015

Makkir wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

lottasay_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have no plans for Battlegrounds or Arenas at this time with "flag matches" or death-match mechanics, however our play-tests of a certain zone that resides in the center of Cyrodiil has scratched a very specific itch...

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Why? This should be a top priority if you want to appeal to the World of Warcraft fanbase.... I myself played WoW for 6 years and play it very much on PC. I feel that ESO can become the premier console MMO if they include all the expectations that come with ex-PC MMO players.

If you want to appeal to the World of Warcraft fanbase? Why on earth would they do a silly thing like that? Every game that tried to be an WoW copy failed. ESO is ESO. Unique.

Keep arenas out of ESO, please.

Precisely. A lot of us came to ESO to get away from WoW. Making another WoW reskin is a sure way to lose a lot of subscribers. If WoW was so great, we'd still be playing it.

And yet the vast majority of Hard-core PvPers are and have been begging for Dueling and Arenas....

Makkir · June 2015

Pecivilis wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

lottasay_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have no plans for Battlegrounds or Arenas at this time with "flag matches" or death-match mechanics, however our play-tests of a certain zone that resides in the center of Cyrodiil has scratched a very specific itch...

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Why? This should be a top priority if you want to appeal to the World of Warcraft fanbase.... I myself played WoW for 6 years and play it very much on PC. I feel that ESO can become the premier console MMO if they include all the expectations that come with ex-PC MMO players.

If you want to appeal to the World of Warcraft fanbase? Why on earth would they do a silly thing like that? Every game that tried to be an WoW copy failed. ESO is ESO. Unique.

Keep arenas out of ESO, please.

Precisely. A lot of us came to ESO to get away from WoW. Making another WoW reskin is a sure way to lose a lot of subscribers. If WoW was so great, we'd still be playing it.

And yet the vast majority of Hard-core PvPers are and have been begging for Dueling and Arenas....

They came to the game knowing there wasn't arena. Don't walk into Burger King and complain they don't have tacos. This game was advertised as AvA. That's where I would like their focus to be.

Lord_Draevan · June 2015

Makkir wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Been away for a few months and I've got to say, these look like really good changes. Have these changes been implemented yet, or are they still in the works?

@Lord_Draevan next content patch. Since you do not need a sub to play, I have been recommending to others just to farm gold in the meantime or collect skyshards. When new item sets are released, assuming they are not bound, having that extra gold can help you pick up nice sets rather quickly.

I have one character at V1 and one at lvl 3, I'll level them up in the meantime. I hope these PvP armor sets are in the next patch, too:

They look awesome.

Pecivilis · June 2015

Makkir wrote: »

Pecivilis wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

lottasay_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have no plans for Battlegrounds or Arenas at this time with "flag matches" or death-match mechanics, however our play-tests of a certain zone that resides in the center of Cyrodiil has scratched a very specific itch...

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Why? This should be a top priority if you want to appeal to the World of Warcraft fanbase.... I myself played WoW for 6 years and play it very much on PC. I feel that ESO can become the premier console MMO if they include all the expectations that come with ex-PC MMO players.

If you want to appeal to the World of Warcraft fanbase? Why on earth would they do a silly thing like that? Every game that tried to be an WoW copy failed. ESO is ESO. Unique.

Keep arenas out of ESO, please.

Precisely. A lot of us came to ESO to get away from WoW. Making another WoW reskin is a sure way to lose a lot of subscribers. If WoW was so great, we'd still be playing it.

And yet the vast majority of Hard-core PvPers are and have been begging for Dueling and Arenas....

They came to the game knowing there wasn't arena. Don't walk into Burger King and complain they don't have tacos. This game was advertised as AvA. That's where I would like their focus to be.

If you would like to be technical WoW was advertised as "AvA in battlegrouds" as well...Arenas came down the line in the BC X-Pac.

Makkir · June 2015

Pecivilis wrote: »

If you would like to be technical WoW was advertised as "AvA in battlegrouds" as well...Arenas came down the line in the BC X-Pac.

Yes you are correct, and I appreciate your input and desire for arenas...I really do. I want an MMO with a resource and crafting system like Star Wars Galaxies but until The Repopulation goes live, I don't have that.

The problem I have with arena right now honestly is the fate of Cyrodiil. We already have declining population (I am DC, it's bad on my side of the fence), and I fear arena will take more players away from Cyrodiil. Will likely see another campaign collapse.

Fortunately, Brian already stated yesterday that Battlegrounds and Arena are not on the table right now so they can put their focus on Cyrodiil performance and content. When that is addressed, I would even be pleased to see small group objectives added to Cyrodiil. But in the game's current state, I just think any PvP that takes away from Cyrodiil would be a bad thing.

Pecivilis · June 2015

While I agree, we have took at it from this perspective as well : Cryodiil is a mess and has been, much to the PvP population's chagrin...Cryodiil has been hemorrhaging Players for months and months. Between the lag, faction imbalance, exploiters etc etc. While I look forward to most of these aforementioned changes from Brian's post the facts stand that Cryodiil will still need months and months of work to fix...now console players are safe and sound, they still have Cloud-nine eyes thus will over look and be more patient with things...PC players on the other hand...we have had the misfortune of trudging through this for a year plus...and I fear that if ZoS doesn't take a page from Rome's book and distract it's citizenry with something flashy and compelling (Arenas, smaller scale competitive PvP etc ) while Cryodiil gets fixed the games PvP population will dwindle into nothing more than a memory.

cozmon3c_ESO · June 2015

Notice that the only people really who want people to loose the passive buffs for former emperor are people who never put in the long hours and the hard work in to achieve it. huh, wierd...... i wonder if Mr. Wheeler ever put in the time to become Emperor? coincidence... maybe, maybe not.

Winnamine · June 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Wow, a lot of interesting changes there. @ZOS_BrianWheeler have you discussed allowing players to "unassign" their campaigns (for the same AP cost and with the same cooldowns), essentially assigning the Home or Guest campaign back to None like it is at Level 10?

This would help players with characters in all factions to be able to reassign their characters a bit more easily, without running into the "Character in another alliance already in this Campaign" issue. (As they could then be "unassigned" to free up a space.)

Please please please?
I have characters on all 3 factions, and there aren't even enough campaigns anymore for me to be able to switch homes or guests on any of them, since you can't have opposing faction chars homed or guested on the same campaigns.

Kloud · June 2015

Please please please add an arena soon one like was in oblivion in imperial city!

Rune_Relic · June 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Pecivilis wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

[*] Battle Leveling: The Battle Leveling system has been updated to include Veteran Ranks. Players that opt into Battle Leveling will be roughly equivalent in power to a VR14 player in moderate-quality gear.
[*] Elder Scrolls & Gates: A fix is in the works that will prevent enemy player characters from getting through the Elder Scroll Gates while the gates are closed. (Gate jumpers beware. Your days are numbered.) Also, a new protective barrier will now surround the Elder Scrolls while in their temples, if the Elder Scroll Gates are closed. This barrier will drop if the gate opens.
[/list]

I am for all of it except these two things, and let me explain why.

First I will start with the Scrolls and Gates, I concede that Gate jumpers (those with the ability [ DKs and NBS] to target and selectively jump to Guards standing on top of the gates thus allowing them access behind) are a problem and exploiting certain game mechanics and need to be stopped.

However, the barrier around the scrolls while the games are closed give me pause for concern because it nixes a well oiled strategy that has proven effective for under-populated factions to still grab scrolls...what I am talking about is this : Somehow your Faction manages to open a gate and try to storm the temple, however you quickly get out numbered and beaten back and or wiped...however a few intrepid players sneak off behind enemy lines and wait, patiently for the opportune moment to strike again, usually after things have calmed and the gate is closed. In my eyes this isn't an exploit, this is a valid time honored tactic.. this is strategy and espionage at it's finest....the same as hiding in a keep after a wipe to be an annoying *** and play the flute in a taunting manner whilst the enemy looks for you.

That's just my opinion on the matter.

But I have a very salty gripe with this newest Buff to battle leveling...this is babying and catering to newbies and casuals at it's finest...and quite honestly a hunk of bollocks....[snip]

However, to me this is same same time of "everyone gets a trophy, everyone should be equal" *** mentality that the world has now. Not everyone gets a trophy, not everyone is equal and giving these players a crutch like this is a smack to the real VR14s....PvP by nature is a competitive thing, and the only way to get good at it is working at it, not being coddled and handed major buffs like that automatically put you on even footing with most of the vr14s out there.

/rant

+1 to both points. The battle levelling one concerns me a lot. In my mind, the only people it will benefit are the tons of noobs who run in huge zergs (not trains, zergs). This will make them harder to kill... not a good thing when you're dealing with 50+ players. PvP should be challenging, and you should have to work at it. [snip]

Stating that "PvP should be challenging, and you should have to work at it." in the same breath as asking that subV14 characters remain far less competitive than fully geared V14s smacks of hypocrisy.

Making the nonV14s harder to kill and more able to contribute will make PVP harder and more challenging for all those V14s that are already out there, which will make it more challenging and competitive. Why don't you welcome that?

Being V14 is purely a check on how much time one has to devote to the game. There's no skill in grinding mobs or Cadwell's quests. This is a meaningless determiner of how 'skilled' a player is.

Gearing is a similar time management check -- do you have the materials or money to get the equipment you need / want? How many V11s equip a full Legendary set of gear with V14 just around the corner?

So what if a V3 with the upcoming new battle level system beats you? If his damage output and survivability is in the neighborhood of your own and he wins, isn't it skill / build that determined the winner? Not simple math due to your shiny legendary weapons and his green lowbie gear?

Or would you just rather keep the roflstomp happening?

QFT
[edited to remove quote]

Manoekin · June 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Pecivilis wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

[*] Battle Leveling: The Battle Leveling system has been updated to include Veteran Ranks. Players that opt into Battle Leveling will be roughly equivalent in power to a VR14 player in moderate-quality gear.
[*] Elder Scrolls & Gates: A fix is in the works that will prevent enemy player characters from getting through the Elder Scroll Gates while the gates are closed. (Gate jumpers beware. Your days are numbered.) Also, a new protective barrier will now surround the Elder Scrolls while in their temples, if the Elder Scroll Gates are closed. This barrier will drop if the gate opens.
[/list]

I am for all of it except these two things, and let me explain why.

First I will start with the Scrolls and Gates, I concede that Gate jumpers (those with the ability [ DKs and NBS] to target and selectively jump to Guards standing on top of the gates thus allowing them access behind) are a problem and exploiting certain game mechanics and need to be stopped.

However, the barrier around the scrolls while the games are closed give me pause for concern because it nixes a well oiled strategy that has proven effective for under-populated factions to still grab scrolls...what I am talking about is this : Somehow your Faction manages to open a gate and try to storm the temple, however you quickly get out numbered and beaten back and or wiped...however a few intrepid players sneak off behind enemy lines and wait, patiently for the opportune moment to strike again, usually after things have calmed and the gate is closed. In my eyes this isn't an exploit, this is a valid time honored tactic.. this is strategy and espionage at it's finest....the same as hiding in a keep after a wipe to be an annoying *** and play the flute in a taunting manner whilst the enemy looks for you.

That's just my opinion on the matter.

But I have a very salty gripe with this newest Buff to battle leveling...this is babying and catering to newbies and casuals at it's finest...and quite honestly a hunk of bollocks....[snip]

However, to me this is same same time of "everyone gets a trophy, everyone should be equal" *** mentality that the world has now. Not everyone gets a trophy, not everyone is equal and giving these players a crutch like this is a smack to the real VR14s....PvP by nature is a competitive thing, and the only way to get good at it is working at it, not being coddled and handed major buffs like that automatically put you on even footing with most of the vr14s out there.

/rant

+1 to both points. The battle levelling one concerns me a lot. In my mind, the only people it will benefit are the tons of noobs who run in huge zergs (not trains, zergs). This will make them harder to kill... not a good thing when you're dealing with 50+ players. PvP should be challenging, and you should have to work at it. [snip]

Stating that "PvP should be challenging, and you should have to work at it." in the same breath as asking that subV14 characters remain far less competitive than fully geared V14s smacks of hypocrisy.

Making the nonV14s harder to kill and more able to contribute will make PVP harder and more challenging for all those V14s that are already out there, which will make it more challenging and competitive. Why don't you welcome that?

Being V14 is purely a check on how much time one has to devote to the game. There's no skill in grinding mobs or Cadwell's quests. This is a meaningless determiner of how 'skilled' a player is.

Gearing is a similar time management check -- do you have the materials or money to get the equipment you need / want? How many V11s equip a full Legendary set of gear with V14 just around the corner?

So what if a V3 with the upcoming new battle level system beats you? If his damage output and survivability is in the neighborhood of your own and he wins, isn't it skill / build that determined the winner? Not simple math due to your shiny legendary weapons and his green lowbie gear?

Or would you just rather keep the roflstomp happening?

As long as they lower the battle leveled health to be more in line with V14 players. I don't feel week playing on my non-vet aside from not doing a lot of damage. I can survive pretty well and play certain roles. I just have the feeling that ZOS will go past where they should with it. We'll see on the PTS I suppose.

[edited to remove quote]

OtakuAime14 · June 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I don't understand some of you. You keep complaining about ZOS "taking things away" from PvP and that its not a solution to all the problems, you essentially (if i am to understand correctly) say that its a "cop-out". Let's break this all down nice and simple.

ESO is a little over a year old. ZOS had ideas, developed the game, and released it. There have been many issues, headaches, the game working not in a way ZOS intended, etc. So now they are going to do things to smooth things out and (hopefully) ultimately increase the fun factor for all.

"Fixing" the game REQUIRES "taking away" what didn't work (i.e. emp farming and former emp buffs to name one).

I don't see one thing in Brian Wheeler's post that would lead to some players having an advantage over others. Sounds like much needed tweaks to PvP that leaves everyone on a level playing field. Again, it seems like some are complaining because they can't let go of former emp buffs and enjoy playing in the new era of ESO PvP.

Yeah because a 1% passive is game breaking.... But boosting a V1 to a V14 isn't???

OtakuAime14 · June 2015

Zenimax... punishing players for hard work and success.

cjthibs · June 2015

OtakuAime14 wrote: »

Yeah because a 1% passive is game breaking.... But boosting a V1 to a V14 isn't???

More like VR 13.5 ...and no, that's making things competitive.

If you boosted to VR 16, that'd be game-breaking.

Xsorus · June 2015

My problem with things like Arenas is whenever you put two types of modes into a game in terms of PvP they usually take away from one another

Warhammer was like this...Rift was pretty much like this, SWTOR would of probably been like this if Illum didn't suck and was unplayable.

Its also not like you can't setup Duels or Fights in Cyrodiil either.

DAOC also is another game that didn't have Arena's but it had probably the greatest most competitive 1v1 and group vs group system to date.....

You don't need Arenas..you need groups to actually have balls and not run in zergs.

Publius_Scipio · June 2015

OtakuAime14 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I don't understand some of you. You keep complaining about ZOS "taking things away" from PvP and that its not a solution to all the problems, you essentially (if i am to understand correctly) say that its a "cop-out". Let's break this all down nice and simple.

ESO is a little over a year old. ZOS had ideas, developed the game, and released it. There have been many issues, headaches, the game working not in a way ZOS intended, etc. So now they are going to do things to smooth things out and (hopefully) ultimately increase the fun factor for all.

"Fixing" the game REQUIRES "taking away" what didn't work (i.e. emp farming and former emp buffs to name one).

I don't see one thing in Brian Wheeler's post that would lead to some players having an advantage over others. Sounds like much needed tweaks to PvP that leaves everyone on a level playing field. Again, it seems like some are complaining because they can't let go of former emp buffs and enjoy playing in the new era of ESO PvP.

Yeah because a 1% passive is game breaking.... But boosting a V1 to a V14 isn't???

I do not understand. If everyone all the sudden is V14 that is bad for the current V14's? Would a real V14 (gear, champ points, skill points, etc) be at a disadvantage against someone battle leveled to V14 when stepping foot into Cyrodiil? Are you annoyed that the general population might be a hair more difficult to kill in PvP?

That 1% passive you speak of created a string of player and group behavior in Cyrodiil that completely went against ZOS's original intentions. And affected PvP on a macro level.

Enodoc · June 2015

I don't understand why there seems to be opposition to battle-levelling VR characters when Lvl 10-49 characters have been battle-levelled all the time. As it stands now, someone who is Lvl 48 is much more capable of staying alive in Cyrodiil than someone who is VR2, because the VR2's stats are that much lower.

WRX · June 2015

NO NEED TO FEAR, MY VACATION IS OVER.

Ravenfrost · June 2015

Looks like good changes except for two:

You're removing passive non emp buffs when some people worked for a month to get emp...Really? That is a big giant eff you to all the emps who did it for the passives...What is the point in pushing to get to get emp if you don't have a lot of play time now to capitalize on your emperorship? You won't be rewarded after.
I agree with Crown, there is only going to one or two people who get emp on each server now and it will be the most powerful player/build if you are playing on a competitive server with organized players with this change.

Also, do not lower skills requirements in the assault line, you cater to all the people who haven't worked to achieve something. Vigor shouldn't be rank 5, it should stay at 10, however, if you must change it then 8 should be the lowest.

Rank 5 Assault can be accomplished in one day with a good group.

**Edit** @ZOS_BrianWheeler
One other thing I've been discussing with other players I PvP with is group size. In PvE max group size is 12, why is PvP 24 man? If you drop the group size down to the same as man PvE raids, then players won't be able to stick together as easily if you are trying to run in a zerg due to separate groups and group leaders. In turn, this could help with some of the lag issues.

DezIsDead · June 2015

Ravenfrost wrote: »

Looks like good changes except for two:

You're removing passive non emp buffs when some people worked for a month to get emp...Really? That is a big giant eff you to all the emps who did it for the passives...What is the point in pushing to get to get emp if you don't have a lot of play time now to capitalize on your emperorship? You won't be rewarded after.
I agree with Crown, there is only going to one or two people who get emp on each server now and it will be the most powerful player/build if you are playing on a competitive server with organized players with this change.

Also, do not lower skills requirements in the assault line, you cater to all the people who haven't worked to achieve something. Vigor shouldn't be rank 5, it should stay at 10, however, if you must change it then 8 should be the lowest.

Rank 5 Assault can be accomplished in one day with a good group.

I second the emp issue ( or is it third since you seconded crown?) I know a lot of people didn't earn theirs, I'm tracking that. But it's not a massive advantage, you can get the same benefits from champion points for the most part. My biggest issue with the changes is I play on two alliances, not being able to guest would suck. On ad I usually play in groups, and on DC I play small 3-5 man groups and usually try to kill the same people I run with on ad. Taking away that option means I'll probably have to find a new guild or group on one of the factions. Which sucks. I understand you can't alter the game to benefit me or a small group, but I just wish so's could be aware of some of the issues your now creating by changing these things

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2015

Please *** nerf Purge... im sick of blobs being completely impossible to kill when defending a keep.

the average blob is getting purged every half to a quarter of a second.

the only weapon pugs have against blobs is seige in all fairness. LET IT MAKE A *** DIFFERANCE AGAINST THEM

WRX · June 2015

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

Please *** nerf Purge... im sick of blobs being completely impossible to kill when defending a keep.

the average blob is getting purged every half to a quarter of a second.

Maybe add a .5-1sec immunity. Anything more completely ruins the game for small groups as well. Purge helps them more.