Permablocking dk's are ironically the easiest class/build for me to kill. Perma dodging fear spamming nbs on the other hand... Or shield stacking sorcs? Much harder

Joy_Division wrote: »

A "permablocker" is far less annoying of an opponent than the shield-stacking bolt escaper or the perma-dodge rolling cloaker.

I don't know I find them all equally annoying. Sorc has no real good way to take out perma block except with rune prison with a crappie cast time.

I fought a perma block NB the other day, it went on for about 5 minutes. I couldn't hurt his health bar the entire fight so I worked on breaking his stam. I died eventually to lack of resources, i asked him how far into his stam bar I got. He said he was still at 100% stam. Wow. There is such thing as perma blocking. Fighting Dk's is even worse, no way to cc them and lava whip is unavoidable, plus reflective scales negates most ranged damage.

More crying from people that make glass cannon builds and want to beat the everlasting *** out of defensive builds. Gtfo of the forums. "Wah dragonknights use lava whip and its their only dd skill" The people on these forums amaze me.

In PvP there are three ways to be defensive and you have to spec into each way.

You either spec into:

1. High stamina regen and reduced roll cost so you can dodge everything.
2. High stamina regen and reduced block cost so you can block everything
3. High Magicka and Magicka Regen so you can stack shields

Currently in the game if you do not do one of the three you die. Now let me go further into this.

1. Dodge Rolling: Dodge rolling allows you to essentially mitigate 100% of incoming damage simply by avoiding it unless hit with someone using Soul Assault, Radiant Destruction, Flame Lash, or Concealed Weapon. Other than those skills you dodge everything including knock downs

2. Blocking: Blocking allows for the user to mitigate large amounts damage, yet with the current meta people still get hit for 3k - 5k while blocking. You can still be hit by crits while holding block. There are skills such as fear which drop block.

3. Shield Stacking: Shield Stacking allows the user to provide a buffer for their health. Damage shields cannot be hit by crits, yet overflow damage completely ignores all resistance. With the right amount of regen one can shield stack infinitely making it so that you're never able to reach their health bar.

If you read what I wrote about you'll see BlockCasting is by far the least broken/overpowered thing in this game anymore. When you block you do not absorb damage like damage shields, and you do not avoid damage like dodge rollers. You simply mitigate damage. And if you do not spec into blocking, it can easily cost you 1,500 - 2,000 a block, while dodge rolling costs more, you end up avoiding more hits with a dodge roll than you do blocking and its much easier to drain a block casters stamina than someone who roll dodges.

I know you can block-cast Surprise Attack with an NB stamina build, has anyone tried that in PvP yet? A magicka DK block-casting Whip will run out of stamina if you manage to not die before that, but I don't think a stamina NB block-casting Surprise Attack would ever run out of stamina, I wonder if that would be a viable build.

DDuke wrote: »

They should make blocking directional, imo.

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

The 360° blocking should be removed

Knootewoot wrote: »

Perma block is fine... if it was directional.

Great. Now I'll have even less chance to mitigate damage from an incoming gank sniper when I hear the incoming arrow whistle.

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A "permablocker" is far less annoying of an opponent than the shield-stacking bolt escaper or the perma-dodge rolling cloaker.

I don't know I find them all equally annoying. Sorc has no real good way to take out perma block except with rune prison with a crappie cast time.

I fought a perma block NB the other day, it went on for about 5 minutes. I couldn't hurt his health bar the entire fight so I worked on breaking his stam. I died eventually to lack of resources, i asked him how far into his stam bar I got. He said he was still at 100% stam. Wow. There is such thing as perma blocking. Fighting Dk's is even worse, no way to cc them and lava whip is unavoidable, plus reflective scales negates most ranged damage.

sorc is the worst class to fight a blocker as sorc abilities do drain effectivly no stam.
the best way to drain their stamina though is using encase as heavy armor+immovable(+arena) offers insane breakfree cost reductions wich are not applied to rolling out of roots.
and if they wear mad amounts of nirn just root them an let them stay :P

Xsorus wrote: »

Multi hit attacks drain stam the best, crushing shock for example is good for draining stamina on block, but you have to worry bout reflect on dk. The best stam drainer will be nightblade with shades though. Templar is decent also

it seams that the change of CS reflect behaviour aswell hurt its drainability significantly...

Zsymon wrote: »

I know you can block-cast Surprise Attack with an NB stamina build, has anyone tried that in PvP yet? A magicka DK block-casting Whip will run out of stamina if you manage to not die before that, but I don't think a stamina NB block-casting Surprise Attack would ever run out of stamina, I wonder if that would be a viable build.

I've been playing heavily with a more block focused NB build. Yes you will easily run out of stamina by block casting surprise attack even with 2K regen. That being said, since I'm not running bow and i cannot stack the speed buff dodging is far less viable for me than the average stamina player. In those oh *** moments, i look to well timed blocking to save my skin.

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Multi hit attacks drain stam the best, crushing shock for example is good for draining stamina on block, but you have to worry bout reflect on dk. The best stam drainer will be nightblade with shades though. Templar is decent also

it seams that the change of CS reflect behaviour aswell hurt its drainability significantly...

Not really, before the dk reflected all attacks for 4 seconds regardless, not he only reflects 4 attacks. It's slightly better for the cs user then before but you shouldn't notice the change realistically

its about CS not scales ffs - the change of CS not counting as 3 attacks in terms of reflecting by scales crushed its ability to drain stamina aswell.

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Multi hit attacks drain stam the best, crushing shock for example is good for draining stamina on block, but you have to worry bout reflect on dk. The best stam drainer will be nightblade with shades though. Templar is decent also

it seams that the change of CS reflect behaviour aswell hurt its drainability significantly...

Not really, before the dk reflected all attacks for 4 seconds regardless, not he only reflects 4 attacks. It's slightly better for the cs user then before but you shouldn't notice the change realistically

its about CS not scales ffs - the change of CS not counting as 3 attacks in terms of reflecting by scales crushed its ability to drain stamina aswell.

I'm pretty sure cs still counts as 3 attacks in terms of blocking, it was just changed on scales

not sure if they count as 3 attacks but tested it with my dk, 2 blockcost reduction glyphs, 639 stamina reg,31CPpoints spend (11% cost reduction) after 60sec of consecutive CSing him his stamina was depleted to 65%(from 16k down to 10.5k).

so CS is everything but not a viable option to stop a perma blocker from blocking as he definatly will have more than my lousy 639stamina reg

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Multi hit attacks drain stam the best, crushing shock for example is good for draining stamina on block, but you have to worry bout reflect on dk. The best stam drainer will be nightblade with shades though. Templar is decent also

it seams that the change of CS reflect behaviour aswell hurt its drainability significantly...

Not really, before the dk reflected all attacks for 4 seconds regardless, not he only reflects 4 attacks. It's slightly better for the cs user then before but you shouldn't notice the change realistically

its about CS not scales ffs - the change of CS not counting as 3 attacks in terms of reflecting by scales crushed its ability to drain stamina aswell.

I'm pretty sure cs still counts as 3 attacks in terms of blocking, it was just changed on scales

not sure if they count as 3 attacks but tested it with my dk, 2 blockcost reduction glyphs, 639 stamina reg,31CPpoints spend (11% cost reduction) after 60sec of consecutive CSing him his stamina was depleted to 65%(from 16k down to 10.5k).

so CS is everything but not a viable option to stop a perma blocker from blocking as he definatly will have more than my lousy 639stamina reg

generally you throw in more then CS to drain Block

But if you were testing it why didn't ya ask him if it counted as 3 hits or not?

Its possible it only counts as one hit..But i'm pretty sure it was only changed for reflect.

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Multi hit attacks drain stam the best, crushing shock for example is good for draining stamina on block, but you have to worry bout reflect on dk. The best stam drainer will be nightblade with shades though. Templar is decent also

it seams that the change of CS reflect behaviour aswell hurt its drainability significantly...

Not really, before the dk reflected all attacks for 4 seconds regardless, not he only reflects 4 attacks. It's slightly better for the cs user then before but you shouldn't notice the change realistically

its about CS not scales ffs - the change of CS not counting as 3 attacks in terms of reflecting by scales crushed its ability to drain stamina aswell.

I'm pretty sure cs still counts as 3 attacks in terms of blocking, it was just changed on scales

not sure if they count as 3 attacks but tested it with my dk, 2 blockcost reduction glyphs, 639 stamina reg,31CPpoints spend (11% cost reduction) after 60sec of consecutive CSing him his stamina was depleted to 65%(from 16k down to 10.5k).

so CS is everything but not a viable option to stop a perma blocker from blocking as he definatly will have more than my lousy 639stamina reg

generally you throw in more then CS to drain Block

But if you were testing it why didn't ya ask him if it counted as 3 hits or not?

Its possible it only counts as one hit..But i'm pretty sure it was only changed for reflect.

all sorc abilities drain less endu than CS the only exclusion is rune prison wich has a 1,5sec CT and thus is not viable to be used. or in other words a sorc has no option to significantly hurt a blocker ever.
regarding the 3 attacks it drais as much endu as a firestaff light attack so i would say nope its no longer counted as 3 attacks.

Smepic wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Multi hit attacks drain stam the best, crushing shock for example is good for draining stamina on block, but you have to worry bout reflect on dk. The best stam drainer will be nightblade with shades though. Templar is decent also

it seams that the change of CS reflect behaviour aswell hurt its drainability significantly...

Not really, before the dk reflected all attacks for 4 seconds regardless, not he only reflects 4 attacks. It's slightly better for the cs user then before but you shouldn't notice the change realistically

its about CS not scales ffs - the change of CS not counting as 3 attacks in terms of reflecting by scales crushed its ability to drain stamina aswell.

I'm pretty sure cs still counts as 3 attacks in terms of blocking, it was just changed on scales

not sure if they count as 3 attacks but tested it with my dk, 2 blockcost reduction glyphs, 639 stamina reg,31CPpoints spend (11% cost reduction) after 60sec of consecutive CSing him his stamina was depleted to 65%(from 16k down to 10.5k).

so CS is everything but not a viable option to stop a perma blocker from blocking as he definatly will have more than my lousy 639stamina reg

The issue at hand is that you are able to block and use skills at the same time. If this were not possible, people who have to either hold block with their permanent block build and be very defensive, or use block tactically - which means there would be possibility to damage when they use skills.

it doesn´t matter if someone is permanently holding down block or lifting it for 10miliseconds to perform an attack cancling its animation by reactivating perma block.
the only way to get a hand towards perma blcoker is to reduce every ability effect by 50-90% for 2sec after or while blocking

See i'm confused here....the way i'm reading your post i'm thinking you believe that different attacks cost different amounts when blocking?

If you hit someone for 50 damage, and its blocked, it'll drain whatever their stamina cost is (say 500) if you hit someone for 5000 damage, it'll drain 500 stamina as well.

the amount of hits is the only thing that matters, So if CS counts as 3 hits it'll drain whatever his block cost is x 3....

That's what made things like Shades good on Nightblade, they count as 2 more people hitting the target even if they did poor damage.

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

See i'm confused here....the way i'm reading your post i'm thinking you believe that different attacks cost different amounts when blocking?

If you hit someone for 50 damage, and its blocked, it'll drain whatever their stamina cost is (say 500) if you hit someone for 5000 damage, it'll drain 500 stamina as well.

the amount of hits is the only thing that matters, So if CS counts as 3 hits it'll drain whatever his block cost is x 3....

That's what made things like Shades good on Nightblade, they count as 2 more people hitting the target even if they did poor damage.

nope thats not what i intended to say, 2 out of the 3 sorc attacks were formerly unblockable and thus costed no stamina when trying to block them, they are now blockable but are still blocked for free...
leaving you with frags wich are reflected by sclaes and defensive stance and thus are "free" blocks aswell and even if its not reflected it costs as much as CS
leaving you with light attacks and CS wich cost the same -> next to nothing (as they are handled as projectiles aswell and are thus facing the most possible cost reduction)
wich lead to the point where a sorc is unable to break through block ever if you are using potions, drink buffs or equip more optimized for pvp as a tank than my DK.

Anything that does damage will drain stamina when blocked

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

See i'm confused here....the way i'm reading your post i'm thinking you believe that different attacks cost different amounts when blocking?

If you hit someone for 50 damage, and its blocked, it'll drain whatever their stamina cost is (say 500) if you hit someone for 5000 damage, it'll drain 500 stamina as well.

the amount of hits is the only thing that matters, So if CS counts as 3 hits it'll drain whatever his block cost is x 3....

That's what made things like Shades good on Nightblade, they count as 2 more people hitting the target even if they did poor damage.

nope thats not what i intended to say, 2 out of the 3 sorc attacks were formerly unblockable and thus costed no stamina when trying to block them, they are now blockable but are still blocked for free...
leaving you with frags wich are reflected by sclaes and defensive stance and thus are "free" blocks aswell and even if its not reflected it costs as much as CS
leaving you with light attacks and CS wich cost the same -> next to nothing (as they are handled as projectiles aswell and are thus facing the most possible cost reduction)
wich lead to the point where a sorc is unable to break through block ever if you are using potions, drink buffs or equip more optimized for pvp as a tank than my DK.

Anything that does damage will drain stamina when blocked

and force shock and its morphs drain 3 times stamina ...

Yea, If they're heavy armor based each force shock should be draining around 1500+ stamina at least, throw in things like weapon procs/light attack/curse ect ect all these will drain stamina.