Permanent Block in ESO

Dar_Zeena

Until yesterday I ran my normal PVE gear in PVP as perm block tank (no damage) 5 piece Legendary Hist Bark, 2x Blood Spawn and Footman set, and I couldn't die unless I ran in the middle of a zerg or someone feared me..
[Honestly, fear is the most annoying thing ever, I can't even tell half the time i'm feared because my character would just stand around for 5 seconds and then im dead]
..when I was low on stam (or I mess up and press a wrong button.. because stupid). Even without running nirn armor (the f.. I'm not paying that much) I only get around 3-5k damage from everything and ~15k from beams. And no, I refuse to use the boring Talon Lash build. Now i'm running the Ultimate DK build (yay for 90 cost dragon leap!)

I can not catch sorcs using Bolt Escape with me spamming Shield Assault (sometimes I can when they're a little slow), and if I do, and get them a little low on health.. SHIELD SPAM! yay!
My group just ignores sorcs spamming Bolt Escape now.

Which tells me.. uuh Bolt>Block?

Tankqull

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

See i'm confused here....the way i'm reading your post i'm thinking you believe that different attacks cost different amounts when blocking?

If you hit someone for 50 damage, and its blocked, it'll drain whatever their stamina cost is (say 500) if you hit someone for 5000 damage, it'll drain 500 stamina as well.

the amount of hits is the only thing that matters, So if CS counts as 3 hits it'll drain whatever his block cost is x 3....

That's what made things like Shades good on Nightblade, they count as 2 more people hitting the target even if they did poor damage.

nope thats not what i intended to say, 2 out of the 3 sorc attacks were formerly unblockable and thus costed no stamina when trying to block them, they are now blockable but are still blocked for free...
leaving you with frags wich are reflected by sclaes and defensive stance and thus are "free" blocks aswell and even if its not reflected it costs as much as CS
leaving you with light attacks and CS wich cost the same -> next to nothing (as they are handled as projectiles aswell and are thus facing the most possible cost reduction)
wich lead to the point where a sorc is unable to break through block ever if you are using potions, drink buffs or equip more optimized for pvp as a tank than my DK.

Anything that does damage will drain stamina when blocked

and force shock and its morphs drain 3 times stamina ...

Yea, If they're heavy armor based each force shock should be draining around 1500+ stamina at least, throw in things like weapon procs/light attack/curse ect ect all these will drain stamina.

not even close too. ~250...
spamming CS continously slightly overcomes my 639 stamina reg per tic, draining me really slow didnt bother testing it longer than a bit over a minute of contious spamming.

Xsorus

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

See i'm confused here....the way i'm reading your post i'm thinking you believe that different attacks cost different amounts when blocking?

If you hit someone for 50 damage, and its blocked, it'll drain whatever their stamina cost is (say 500) if you hit someone for 5000 damage, it'll drain 500 stamina as well.

the amount of hits is the only thing that matters, So if CS counts as 3 hits it'll drain whatever his block cost is x 3....

That's what made things like Shades good on Nightblade, they count as 2 more people hitting the target even if they did poor damage.

nope thats not what i intended to say, 2 out of the 3 sorc attacks were formerly unblockable and thus costed no stamina when trying to block them, they are now blockable but are still blocked for free...
leaving you with frags wich are reflected by sclaes and defensive stance and thus are "free" blocks aswell and even if its not reflected it costs as much as CS
leaving you with light attacks and CS wich cost the same -> next to nothing (as they are handled as projectiles aswell and are thus facing the most possible cost reduction)
wich lead to the point where a sorc is unable to break through block ever if you are using potions, drink buffs or equip more optimized for pvp as a tank than my DK.

Anything that does damage will drain stamina when blocked

and force shock and its morphs drain 3 times stamina ...

Yea, If they're heavy armor based each force shock should be draining around 1500+ stamina at least, throw in things like weapon procs/light attack/curse ect ect all these will drain stamina.

not even close too. ~250...
spamming CS continously slightly overcomes my 639 stamina reg per tic, draining me really slow didnt bother testing it longer than a bit over a minute of contious spamming.

250? Where do you get that at? I can get it down to around 600ish if i go out all in block cost reduction...250 not even close...esp 3x hits

Tankqull

get rid of your 3x times hit it is not counted as 3 attacks, its a single projectile wich is cost reduced by using a board (like all sorc spells beside splash and the lightning form) and thus cost next to nothing to be blocked.

the only way to drain a blockers endu is by hugging him tightly with active lightning form while having him stay in a lightning splash.

Xsorus

Tankqull wrote: »

get rid of your 3x times hit it is not counted as 3 attacks, its a single projectile wich is cost reduced by using a board (like all sorc spells beside splash and the lightning form) and thus cost next to nothing to be blocked.

the only way to drain a blockers endu is by hugging him tightly with active lightning form while having him stay in a lightning splash.

Is it not counted as 3 attacks or you just assuming its not? also sword and board doesn't reduce the cost of projectiles when blocked...All damage cost the same in terms of being blocked. It reduces the amount of damage you take from ranged attacks..But the cost to block it remains the same for all attacks.

Domander

Tankqull wrote: »

get rid of your 3x times hit it is not counted as 3 attacks, its a single projectile wich is cost reduced by using a board (like all sorc spells beside splash and the lightning form) and thus cost next to nothing to be blocked.

the only way to drain a blockers endu is by hugging him tightly with active lightning form while having him stay in a lightning splash.

You know that ground aoe's aren't blockable?

My 2 cents, a lot of the balance problems in game are from drinks. Too high regen letting players use expensive things like bolt/block/dodge/shields/etc without needing to worry about the cost.

Tankqull

Domander wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

get rid of your 3x times hit it is not counted as 3 attacks, its a single projectile wich is cost reduced by using a board (like all sorc spells beside splash and the lightning form) and thus cost next to nothing to be blocked.

the only way to drain a blockers endu is by hugging him tightly with active lightning form while having him stay in a lightning splash.

You know that ground aoe's aren't blockable?

My 2 cents, a lot of the balance problems in game are from drinks. Too high regen letting players use expensive things like bolt/block/dodge/shields/etc without needing to worry about the cost.

i know that they should not but they do, atleast sorcs splash and DKs cinderstorm drain a shi. load of stamina while targeted dots (at least the dk ones breath and searing strike) only cost stamina on aplication

Sugram22

nothing2591 wrote: »

perma blocking is the most boring part about pvp apart from turrent/sentry snipe spammers ofc. they are just standing there holding block, these builds are for ppl that dont have the skill to light attack weave

i hardly ever use weapon attacks, i spam skills, i use wep attack only when i need to restore MP or stam (if i don't need to restore MP/stam i rarely use wep attack, most of my wep attacks are for restoring...), i think that's what u meant...

for DK mage i use restro staff as second staff & that's what restores insane amount of MP once u have certain restro passives

i wouldn't go for totally permanent block, but i would do really hard build, nice in DUNG, but i build like i build, maybe by accident i end up Permanent block, but if i need certain gear for that to help, then its unlikely that i get permanent block cause i don't worry about that i just play & what happens happens, my tank is lvl 20 currently & right i feel like i need to improve block a lot cause when i solo i die a lot cause i run out of stam & a lot dam comes trough when it comes to bosses

but in other hand i like soloble dung like ver of crypt of hearts where i can solo & if they don't make it i may some day make a second Tank with Permanent block to solo dung, but in other hand it maybe to boring, cause solo i would make bad DPS what means slow kill & that's boring so who knows, maybe i won't do...

actosh

U could add a "while holding block your dmg output is decreased by 25% (or more). After lowering block the reduction stays for 2seconds".
Then it would be a bit more situational.

paulsimonps

Waffennacht

One heck of a necro

Qbiken

Show me 1 permablock build that can take a lot of damage from multiple sources (like 10+ players) and dish out big dmg numbers??? You cant.....

KingYogi415

I never got why scrubs would rather qq for nerfs instead of learning to play a counter or playing said "OP" build.

There are a million of these "OP" builds people like to throw salt at here on the forums, just pick one and get gud with it.....

ak_pvp

AHAHAHAHAAH.

This thread is 2yr old lmao. I see that it was a problem prior.

Maole1989

Smepic wrote: »

We should not be able to hold block and still be able to use spells. Usage of skills while you hold block should remove the block status for the duration of the ability animation.

While I haven't come across any perma-block builds that do decent damage (unless they're emp or run around in a group of 3), I do agree with this portion of your quote. If block-casting is removed then perhaps animation canceling should be removed too, as I group them in the same class. I know animation canceling is a hot topic of debate but this is just my opinion.

sly007

noobfury wrote: »

I honestly wonder how many people actually spend any significant amount of time in pvp.
There is no such thing as a permanent block build.

Scales lasts 4 seconds. How many times can you spam scales and whip and gdb while holding block over and over again without draining your resources ?

First of all , the amount of damage by un blockable skills like 30 k soul assault for example is ridicules. The day I can use GDB or any other heal to counter the obscene amount of damage in pvp will be fantastic. How much magika or stamina does it take for someone to beam a shield user with soul assault ? None . Skill ? None . It's an insta win button like so many other skills in the game right now.


How about good old Radiant Destruction or Fear. Do you know that that's the first thing people pull out of the hat as soon as they see a shield ? I get killed by RD more than anything else in PVP because some brave player standing behind the person your engaged with is sniping an easy kill.

When someone is losing , bam just hit that fear button . That's all it takes.

Ever have someone spam 3k Biting Jabs over and over? An experienced Templar sees a shield and that spear will come out.
There are many skills that go right through a shield.

Second of all , DK's are suffering right now from a lack of any real damage compared to other classes. They have been nerfed so hard the only thing they have left in class skills that they can hope to rely on is whip. If your being killed by whips puny damage then your facing an LTP situation.

It takes much more skill to be able to hold a shield while managing resources than it does to spam laser beams from a safe distance and run away when someone gets to close. Does a DK have an escape when their resources run low?

Or to snipe someone with a 20k Lethal Arrow while your gank buddy jumps out of stealth with fear and is able to spam 5 attacks in less than 2 seconds , I promise you won't even have time to get the shield up before your dead let alone block anything.

A DK using 1H and shield with class skills requires more work to play effectively than almost any other class . Using a shield is not easy mode by any means . I respect anyone trying to make this class work effectively right now .

The op probably was bested by someone who knew how to play the class well and now thinks that shields need a nerf.

FYI there are not a lot of players that use a so called perma block build in pvp , that's a complete misconception however I can say with all confidence there are a lot of players running stamina NB's with 2H and another 70% or so running sorc.

Most players in pvp don't want a class that's not easy mode.

Playing a dk with sword and shield is NOT as hard a you say. Some of your other points are valid though. Blocking soul assault or jabs is no joke.

The block change was more hurtful to builds not designed to permablock than those aiming to permablock.

I agrees with O.P about permablocking being an issue. Where is the reduce the cost of roll dodge enchant. Lol, or increase the strength of shield enchant.

paulsimonps

sly007 wrote: »

noobfury wrote: »

I honestly wonder how many people actually spend any significant amount of time in pvp.
There is no such thing as a permanent block build.

Scales lasts 4 seconds. How many times can you spam scales and whip and gdb while holding block over and over again without draining your resources ?

First of all , the amount of damage by un blockable skills like 30 k soul assault for example is ridicules. The day I can use GDB or any other heal to counter the obscene amount of damage in pvp will be fantastic. How much magika or stamina does it take for someone to beam a shield user with soul assault ? None . Skill ? None . It's an insta win button like so many other skills in the game right now.


How about good old Radiant Destruction or Fear. Do you know that that's the first thing people pull out of the hat as soon as they see a shield ? I get killed by RD more than anything else in PVP because some brave player standing behind the person your engaged with is sniping an easy kill.

When someone is losing , bam just hit that fear button . That's all it takes.

Ever have someone spam 3k Biting Jabs over and over? An experienced Templar sees a shield and that spear will come out.
There are many skills that go right through a shield.

Second of all , DK's are suffering right now from a lack of any real damage compared to other classes. They have been nerfed so hard the only thing they have left in class skills that they can hope to rely on is whip. If your being killed by whips puny damage then your facing an LTP situation.

It takes much more skill to be able to hold a shield while managing resources than it does to spam laser beams from a safe distance and run away when someone gets to close. Does a DK have an escape when their resources run low?

Or to snipe someone with a 20k Lethal Arrow while your gank buddy jumps out of stealth with fear and is able to spam 5 attacks in less than 2 seconds , I promise you won't even have time to get the shield up before your dead let alone block anything.

A DK using 1H and shield with class skills requires more work to play effectively than almost any other class . Using a shield is not easy mode by any means . I respect anyone trying to make this class work effectively right now .

The op probably was bested by someone who knew how to play the class well and now thinks that shields need a nerf.

FYI there are not a lot of players that use a so called perma block build in pvp , that's a complete misconception however I can say with all confidence there are a lot of players running stamina NB's with 2H and another 70% or so running sorc.

Most players in pvp don't want a class that's not easy mode.

Playing a dk with sword and shield is NOT as hard a you say. Some of your other points are valid though. Blocking soul assault or jabs is no joke.

The block change was more hurtful to builds not designed to permablock than those aiming to permablock.

I agrees with O.P about permablocking being an issue. Where is the reduce the cost of roll dodge enchant. Lol, or increase the strength of shield enchant.

You do realize this is a 2 year old thread right? A lot has changed. Also permablocking is not an issue anymore. It takes too much investment to do it and you can't really do much in return instead. And its also impossible to permablock in no CP PvP such as in Sotha Sil or in Battlegrounds.

HiImRex

Mag dk
Helping hands
Battle roar
immo pots
1 reduce block cost glyph
Cp in block cost reduction
2-3 sturdy

"Lel bro you have to give up all damage to block as dk"

"Lel bro just fear every 23 seconds and watch you run out of sta- oh"

Impreg
Desert rose
Skoria
1 block cost glyph
8 sturdy
Cp in block reduction

"Lel ez counter just Zerg them"

paulsimonps

HiImRex wrote: »

Mag dk
Helping hands
Battle roar
immo pots
1 reduce block cost glyph
Cp in block cost reduction
2-3 sturdy

"Lel bro you have to give up all damage to block as dk"

@HiImRex
That is not enough to perma block. Blocking for a bit, yes, but not permablock, which is what was mentioned.

FloppyTouch

There is no such thing as a perma block build in pvp trust me we run out of Stam very fast. I run a mdk with a block cast build full sturdy and I'm out of Stam so fast I have to drop block heavy attack and hope my ult is up and potion is up.

paulsimonps

FloppyTouch wrote: »

There is no such thing as a perma block build in pvp trust me we run out of Stam very fast. I run a mdk with a block cast build full sturdy and I'm out of Stam so fast I have to drop block heavy attack and hope my ult is up and potion is up.

You can perma block but only in CP PvP, and to do it you need Alteration Mastery, Black Rose helps too.

leepalmer95

FloppyTouch wrote: »

There is no such thing as a perma block build in pvp trust me we run out of Stam very fast. I run a mdk with a block cast build full sturdy and I'm out of Stam so fast I have to drop block heavy attack and hope my ult is up and potion is up.

Nah theres still perma block builds e.g. the 40k hp tanks that basically stand there for the idiots pugs to hit them. Also talon/ chains.

The only thing zos did with the blocking change this patch is hurt non blocking builds a lot more because now blocking is actually worse off for most situations now.

IxskullzxI

So if block casting is removed what are you giving dk's to compensate?

Durham

The blocking monsters that you might encounter out there are as follows....
1. Slooooow
2. The have blocking reduction on all jewrly..
3. They wear all mitigation sets...
4. Extremely low damage .. If they have a two hander on the back bar they can hit slow moderate burst damage...
5. They are sacrificing mobility and damage for mitigation... they are tanks ...

How do you counter these guys very easy... you ignore them kill everyone except them... come back to the after they are all dead....
Fear the tank use all abilities that can go though block let only your night blade hard CC him ... force him to use vigor more and break CC.. when he uses his,shield ult to get stam back every one block ... or hit him from range...

You can kill 95% of these guys easily time your hits on the fear....ult drop him

DeHei

This permablock and dodgebuilds are the main reason why i play with undodgeable skill, much aoe skills and only lightning & healingstaff. Just 2 skills from me are reflectable and i can destroy all these permablockbuilds

dodgehopper_ESO

danovic wrote: »

Holding the shield in a block position all the time is how a shield is used. It is not stored on your back or dangled by your side ever. It is the way a shield is used. The idea that we should have to push a button to block is totally unrealistic with sword and shield combat as it is always held in front of you blocking. Block button should only apply to other melee weapons. As for perma block with two handers bow staff and the other melee weapons You right no way they should block as much damage as a shield or even at all. You not going to block arrows or magic spells with a two hander at all. Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFiIDl_mt2c Notice were the shield is held in that fight.

I agree entirely. If they want to nerf blocking a bit I'm fine with that. There were in fact techniques for dealing with shields and certain weapons that were ideal for doing so. I agree entirely they ought to rethink how blocking works. As a side note I really wish they'd change the animation for swinging weapons so that our characters stop looking behind and down on the ground. It really makes it hard to suspend disbelief that my character is some kind of master warrior (or any character for that matter).

Waffennacht

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

danovic wrote: »

Holding the shield in a block position all the time is how a shield is used. It is not stored on your back or dangled by your side ever. It is the way a shield is used. The idea that we should have to push a button to block is totally unrealistic with sword and shield combat as it is always held in front of you blocking. Block button should only apply to other melee weapons. As for perma block with two handers bow staff and the other melee weapons You right no way they should block as much damage as a shield or even at all. You not going to block arrows or magic spells with a two hander at all. Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFiIDl_mt2c Notice were the shield is held in that fight.

I agree entirely. If they want to nerf blocking a bit I'm fine with that. There were in fact techniques for dealing with shields and certain weapons that were ideal for doing so. I agree entirely they ought to rethink how blocking works. As a side note I really wish they'd change the animation for swinging weapons so that our characters stop looking behind and down on the ground. It really makes it hard to suspend disbelief that my character is some kind of master warrior (or any character for that matter).

I notice one thing about those shields, they are before the invention of (can't remember name) of the band that goes over your forearm. Those only have the handle. That invention was pretty revolutionary in shields and would make a lot of the methods used in the video not relevant yes?

Lylith

Waffennacht wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

danovic wrote: »

Holding the shield in a block position all the time is how a shield is used. It is not stored on your back or dangled by your side ever. It is the way a shield is used. The idea that we should have to push a button to block is totally unrealistic with sword and shield combat as it is always held in front of you blocking. Block button should only apply to other melee weapons. As for perma block with two handers bow staff and the other melee weapons You right no way they should block as much damage as a shield or even at all. You not going to block arrows or magic spells with a two hander at all. Unrealism is a sure fire way to ruin even a fantasy game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFiIDl_mt2c Notice were the shield is held in that fight.

I agree entirely. If they want to nerf blocking a bit I'm fine with that. There were in fact techniques for dealing with shields and certain weapons that were ideal for doing so. I agree entirely they ought to rethink how blocking works. As a side note I really wish they'd change the animation for swinging weapons so that our characters stop looking behind and down on the ground. It really makes it hard to suspend disbelief that my character is some kind of master warrior (or any character for that matter).

I notice one thing about those shields, they are before the invention of (can't remember name) of the band that goes over your forearm. Those only have the handle. That invention was pretty revolutionary in shields and would make a lot of the methods used in the video not relevant yes?

enarme(s)?

nCats

In battlegrounds though, one or two blocking templars elevate a mediocre group to unkillable levels.

Then again, it is more of a breath of life issue.

Honestly I'd like to see some improvements in block department. I have nothing against sword and shield in other games and play it with pleasure, but in eso I'm not excited about the mechanics.

Maybe blocking should take the direction you're facing into account, not reduce damage from the whole 360.

It would be even better to have ordinary shields which offer flat damage reduction (so that an extreme high value damage build would go trough), and "tower shields" which would offer blocking as now and even more armor, but with reduction to movement speed.

I also see nothing wrong with shields giving "minor evasion", providing 10% dodge chance (aka random fully mitigated blocks).

And so on, and so on, to quote Zizek.

SirAndy

Qbiken wrote: »

Show me 1 permablock build that can take a lot of damage from multiple sources (like 10+ players) and dish out big dmg numbers??? You cant.....

You're only two years late, some of us remember the days when blocking was free ...