TheBull wrote: »

You mean we have no zerg guilds?


We have the best small group/solo fighters in all of Tamriel.

I'd actually agree with this. I have toons in every faction and I would say that since launch, the average smurf PvPer is a little better than your average banana or strawberry. Being outnumbered all the time, forced to adapt/survive, etc., probably has a lot to do with it.

Every campaign is dead for DC except Chill. I tried to play on Chill last night and it was horrible. A very few truly organized groups but the server is mostly lemmings running into the EP zerg at Glade LM over and over for hours. Logged out. Unless I can get into my guild group, which is becoming scarce, there is no reason to play.

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Quick list of off the top of my head problems:

1. Players are farming champion points in Cyro because the respawn timers in Cyrodiil delves are ridiculous and respawn almost immediately. This makes it look like a campaign is full, even though 40% of the players are just farming VP/CP.
2. Low population overall. The good guilds have left because ZoS has abandoned their players for the last 8 months or more in PvP. I yearn for the days of fighting Alacrity, No Mercy, etc.
3. Certain people continue to exploit into keeps. How are they not punished? How is the game team not addressing this, but is addressing the sheep roving patterns? Are you f'ing kidding me? What a slap in the face to your PvP players.
4. Buff servers for PVE cause everyone to pile onto a server just for the huge PVE bonuses it provides causing pop imbalance.
5. Travel to player means anyone and their 50 friends can go to any campaign they want and zerg it down again causing pop imbalance.
6. Rewards tiering causes campaign moves. Players do Thornblade>w/e>Haderus in the same month to get 2 or even 3 sets of gold rewards. Again, more population imbalance.
7. TTK for new players is so low, it is easy to get frustrated and not want to play.
8. Gankers on the roads to any keeps (Usually small groups ganking one or two players off horses, you know, because this shows real skill...) make it easy to get frustrated and not want to play.
9. Conversely, for some builds, TTK against some players is so long, it is easy to get frustrated. The gulf between a strong, guilded char, with lots of champion points, and a player who is new, with no guild, minimal champ points, is just huge.
10. Rewards in general for PvP once you have unlocked the skills are pretty meh. Sure you can get a high dollar piece of gear, but it takes tons of AP, tons of bag opening, then you have to list it. Right now I look in my trade guild there are literally 23 morag tong daggers for sale. The market is saturated and not enough new players are joining to make item farming worth it.



Even with all of these problems, when I am bug/lag/exploit free, this game's PVP is the best. Last night on Haderus DC/AD tried to dethrone @vortexman11 and we had some amazing fights where I had no lag despite probably 100+ players on screen from 3 factions. It was great. All you have to do ZoS is: Give us one [snip] patch where you address PvP stuff!

Just about every game at the top of the twich viewers ladder, or the sales charts for games, is heavily PvP based. The zone in your game that always has the most players is Cyrodiil.

I agree with... everything in this post.

Some other things to consider:
1. PvP will be the life-blood of the game long term. Studios, no matter how large, will ever be able to put out enough PvE content to keep players satisfied. (unless it is Korean-MMO grind garbage) Emergent gameplay is always more entertaining.
2. For more than one year PvP players have been playing on the same map with zero additions. I would reckon that most players are happy with the map and only really want small, steady additions -- much of which can be found on these forums with a few searches). Consider that against the trials, vet dungeons, new zone (Crag) which still doesn't satisfy the PvE crowd.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

edit

I wonder if paid faction changes might address this. Let's hope to see them in the Crown Shop, and at a reasonable price. Players may well balance things out a bit. Currently, though, the idea of rerolling and re-grinding VR ranks, alliance ranks and undaunted faction is a fairly steep barrier to any mass migration.

Snit wrote: »

I wonder if paid faction changes might address this. Let's hope to see them in the Crown Shop, and at a reasonable price. Players may well balance things out a bit. Currently, though, the idea of rerolling and re-grinding VR ranks, alliance ranks and undaunted faction is a fairly steep barrier to any mass migration.

The only complication is here is quests/achievements. How someone completing 50% of all available AD content and its relative achievements transcends onto becoming a DC character. It is problems like this that out-weigh any benefits cross-faction features would be for ZoS.

ZOS' unwillingness to fix PvP has worn away the majority of my desire to deal with it any longer.
There was a point a while ago where playing other games became more appealing than spending all evening crashing/lagging out and relogging to Cyrodiil.
Still love the times in Cyrodiil when things have run well for me, but those instances have progressively gotten fewer and further between.

Enjoy playing as the underdog. As a DC player, do not view AD or EP as the cause that pushed me away -- it was ZOS.

God_flakes wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

balberith wrote: »

Simply stating fact. Blame what you will.

1. Historic low pop
2. Majority of the "Elite" pvp players/guilds are gone
3. Poor/inconsistent leadership

Congrats AD/EP Enjoy farming the stragglers and having AS/TB as buff campaigns.

Once again, I understand that DC has less players but I will keep saying this : Stop waiting for someone to take the command. Do a favor to your faction and start groups from the zone chat. Bring them into a teamspeak, teach them how to play and how to be organized like you learned it back in the days in those epic guilds. It will be frustrating, it will require alot of patience but it will be all worth it in the end. This is how other factions got some decent guilds going from the start and I don't expect it going any different in DC. I believe that people are not "mentally affected" in DC and will learn as much as in any other faction. You just have to do your faction a favor and to make things happen.

How condescending is this post? Frozn, I challenge YOU to take up the mantle and flip DC and do the task you claim we should be able to do with the abysmal numbers we have. I know many ep already doing this but most are still in vet stage and many are getting discouraged because of the continued condition of pvp servers. You can sit there on your high horse and preach to us BECAUSE the lag hasn't negatively affected YOU. The population imbalance hasn't negatively affected YOU. Your faction wins despite the lag. Your faction has obscene numbers at every fight. I mean my god, I got teabagged the other day by about 48 ep. They all dogpiled on ONE player. That's what YOUR faction has become so please don't sit here and preach to us about starting groups and getting organized.

I'm not sure why you take this as an offense. I was simply trying to motivate DC players to organize themselves and to train people. I often see DC players complaining that they have no guilds or organisation whatsoever but I never see any DC guild actually promoting themselves in official forums recruitement thread or in Tamriel Foundry.

I'm not sure how to react to the part where you say that the lag doesn't affect me. I guess you already know the answer but for some reasons, you still dared to say such a thing. Me and the rest of EP lag on a daily basis. I brought several solution to ZOS and to the community multiple times already in these forums to help reduce the lag. Such as stopping to spam meteors and standards on flags inside keeps. And to ask your group to stop casting all aoes for 15-20seconds to help the server catch up. I'm also one of the first who will campaign hop when the lag gets ridiculous, when EP is flipping the map red against lower population for the other factions or when people need me in other campaigns.

The population imbalance hasn't negatively affected me? I have been out numbered on Azura and Haderus for the past month. AD brought 8 guilds in Azura 3weeks ago of one full raid each at least (one of those guild usually run a double raid and a half) creating a massive zerg of 80players+ and totally destroyed the health of the campaign. It is now an AD buff campaign. On Haderus, it is a different problem but still related to population imbalances. An AD Oceanic guild of 10-12 players roll the map 18hours a day against 5-6 disorganized pugs. Vortex's crew (GoS) has been doing some good work there the past couple days but it wasn't like that for the past weeks. That AD crew farm EP's gate every late night early morning 3-4hours in a row. This is what I face everyday when I log in in the morning or during my lunch time from work. Don't tell me that I don't face population imbalances. I do it on a regular basis because I almost never play on Chillrend and not at all on Thornblade.

Some guilds on Chillrend cause alot more lag than others because they are known to spam meteors, standards, and purges during big fights which cause performances issues. If you are tired of lag, move to other campaigns and until those groups move there, you will have a much better time (as DC at least), trust me.

God_flakes wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

AS AD on Chillrend really could use DC's help stemming the red tide.
Too many times the map is almost completely red and DC is attacking what little AD has left instead of going and pushing EP out of DC's own keeps.
I know there is no love for AD, but let's push back red then fight each other!

Speaking for my small raid we go against ad to avoid lag. there is always lag against ep on Chill. And Frozn can sit here and thump his chest all day. The lag is how ep wins. They always seem to win BECAUSE of it.

This is something that has kept happening since the mass exodus of Thornblade. People keeps old grudges against a faction for their "bad behaviours" and they take their revenge against the whole faction, sometimes on different campaigns, even tho only certain guilds were the root of the problem in the beginning. I whisper alot the members of the opposite faction when I see them bashing on my faction which look strange to me, and most of them tell me that they are taking revenge against EP who lagged them to death on Chillrend or against EP who farmed emperor on Haderus 1-2months ago (which is once again, the same guilds who are actually on Chillrend). They don't understand that the actual EP who play on Azura or Haderus are in reality people who want to create healthy campaigns and want population imbalances to disapear. Otherwise, they would be stacking Thornblade and Chillrend and rolling the map with those people there wo play only for easy wins, bragging rights and protecting their emperor over scrolls.

God_flakes wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

balberith wrote: »

Simply stating fact. Blame what you will.

1. Historic low pop
2. Majority of the "Elite" pvp players/guilds are gone
3. Poor/inconsistent leadership

Congrats AD/EP Enjoy farming the stragglers and having AS/TB as buff campaigns.

Once again, I understand that DC has less players but I will keep saying this : Stop waiting for someone to take the command. Do a favor to your faction and start groups from the zone chat. Bring them into a teamspeak, teach them how to play and how to be organized like you learned it back in the days in those epic guilds. It will be frustrating, it will require alot of patience but it will be all worth it in the end. This is how other factions got some decent guilds going from the start and I don't expect it going any different in DC. I believe that people are not "mentally affected" in DC and will learn as much as in any other faction. You just have to do your faction a favor and to make things happen.

From what I saw on Chillrend tonight there are at least 3 groups that recruit from zone. Some require TS & some don't. Unlike the AD/EP guilds you allude to that built up back at the start, currently the game doesn't have the same population base to pull from which makes this substantially more challenging. There's also the fact that there are probably fewer high PvP rank DC players to pull from which means limited/no access to detonation & vigor (currently). Game performance is another big issue; all it takes is a couple lagged out fights at a keep or a resource and people lose interest in large groups. I suspect that by the time one of these guilds becomes as organized as their opponents, the organized AD/EP guilds will have burned out.

That said, I'd love to see DC get one or two organized guild groups going that are capable of fighting the AD/EP organized guilds because that would improve the situation for the small man stuff that I prefer. When the fights are even on all three fronts there's more opportunity to cut off reinforcements and/or create fights behind the lines. When they're skewed the way they are now, a small man capping resources to cut off a keep just gets zerged.

I understand that it takes some time for low players to gain access to those high AR skills but you know, my guild gets alot of new recruits from Tamriel Foundry and Official forums recruitement threads (most of them are not even vr1) and every wednesday, thursday and sunday, we get those new whelps with us and teach them what we can about Cyrodiil and try to give them as much AP as possible in the process. if EP can do it, DC can too I'm sure.

I know right ?!? Like how hard is it to recruit for the "winningest" faction on ESO?

Could I ask a link of your recruitement thread in official forums and Tamriel Foundry ?

Ghostbane wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

I wonder if paid faction changes might address this. Let's hope to see them in the Crown Shop, and at a reasonable price. Players may well balance things out a bit. Currently, though, the idea of rerolling and re-grinding VR ranks, alliance ranks and undaunted faction is a fairly steep barrier to any mass migration.

The only complication is here is quests/achievements. How someone completing 50% of all available AD content and its relative achievements transcends onto becoming a DC character. It is problems like this that out-weigh any benefits cross-faction features would be for ZoS.

With how bad the population balance is though...I'm sure they could figure out something.

NPK Daniel wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

Let's also not gloss over the fact that ad ruined Azura. They're not likely to get any help any time soon on Chill.

With what AD has done to Azura, I thirst only for their blood. The other day in Had when some strange blue team held your home keeps while red took everything back...payback.

I may not have the numbers to win vs your 100s, but i do have the numbers to troll hard.

What were you doing back capping red keeps on Saturday on Azura's? We wanted to dethrone, but you made us lose a lot of precious time.

DC could really use a return of the full No Mercy team (or something like it) or just someone to compliment Short Bus.

That I've seen DC diehards running with Decibel (yes, AD side) gives me a sad.

When and if the third faction fails completely (DC being the most likely), then this game is done PVP wise.