so now that conceal/Lava whip WONT go thru dodge.

Lorkhan · May 2015

"nerf!!!! nerf!!!"

there will always be meta builds
do you remember when we all were magika players?

Mumyo · May 2015

Since i was a stamina player since beta i dont like this permadodgerolling.
As Templar i relied pretty much on my shield but that made me a burstable target etc. why not get back to that?
Its all about spamming these days as it seems.
I prefer the attacks ignoring rolldodge.

DDuke · May 2015

Mumyo wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

How do we counter the infinite roll dodge builds? It will be almost impossible to kill some of them without this (Yes there were many other ways but that mainly meant outnumbered the roll dodger or using AOE)
Jabs also goes through roll dodge I hear, so does NB conceal and DK lava whip and last I heard (not 100% sure) sorc has a way to also go through dodge attacks but not as good as the other classes.

mixed with the fact that vigor will be alliance war 15 and can heal ALOT if you build it right (Which is you say vigor is a small heal you are wrong) only having AOES go through dodge will not be enough damage to kill them.

What do you guys think? Serious feedback...I honestly feel this will hurt PVP badly and this is a (PVP change) Stamina builds are already very very strong.

-If you honestly think this should be fixed please also provide the counter to kill stamina builds without using attacks that go through dodge-

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Jabs do not go through dodge.

Not all of them (atleast on stamina morph), but any that land after the roll dodge ends do actually land during the vulnerability period (which is kind of like a short cooldown between the dodge rolls).

You can count on atleast first and/or last jab hitting the target, unless the target dodge rolls out of the cone radius.

Mumyo wrote: »

Since i was a stamina player since beta i dont like this permadodgerolling.
As Templar i relied pretty much on my shield but that made me a burstable target etc. why not get back to that?
Its all about spamming these days as it seems.
I prefer the attacks ignoring rolldodge.

It's the other way around though, you're burstable when you're running without shield, dodge rolling, but unburstable when there's a 15k uncrittable dmg shield up.

I'm also against the "permadodgerolling" going on, as I've always treated it more as a reactionary tool to help avoid those big hits (not everything).

That said, I don't think making spammable abilities (yep, it's all about spamming these days...) completely ignore it is the solution. What should be done is lengthening the cooldown between dodge rolls, or making it cost more stamina the more times you use it in a row.

Suru · May 2015

Sypher wrote: »

Can we also delete the champion passive "unchained" before more people unlock it and stamina builds become Demi-Gods? - Current Stamina Nightblade, up and coming Demi-God.

I believe its only your weapon abilites, not roll dodge or things like that when I tested it, ill have to check it out again.

Mumyo · May 2015

its simply they dont hit and when there is a short period they can hit like every attack else doesnt make em hit through dodge.

Draxys · May 2015

If this happens, I would balance it by reducing the cost reduction of dodge in the medium armor skill line, and on top of that, WE NEED SOFTCAPS.

The_Drexill · May 2015

As someone who rolls around lots, I think making making whip/concealed go through dodge is a huge mistake. Right now, a magicka dk is my hard counter... which is fine. It keeps things honest.

Ezareth · May 2015

Rise of the Permadodgers...pretty prophetic don't you say?

This game becomes a bigger joke with every change they make.

Been playing the hell out of Witcher 3 since day one. Haven't experienced a single bug in 40 hours of play....not one. 4 patches so far in a week.

I log into ESO last night and crash as soon as I log in. Meanwhile we have to wait 4+ months for a patch...

WTB The Witcher Online.

Armitas · May 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Rise of the Permadodgers...pretty prophetic don't you say?

This game becomes a bigger joke with every change they make.

Been playing the hell out of Witcher 3 since day one. Haven't experienced a single bug in 40 hours of play....not one. 4 patches so far in a week.

I log into ESO last night and crash as soon as I log in. Meanwhile we have to wait 4+ months for a patch...

WTB The Witcher Online.

4 moar months of this? seriously? I'm not sure I can make it that long...

So thats where you have been, tried to whisper you a couple of times, figured you were playing witcher.

Ezareth · May 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Rise of the Permadodgers...pretty prophetic don't you say?

This game becomes a bigger joke with every change they make.

Been playing the hell out of Witcher 3 since day one. Haven't experienced a single bug in 40 hours of play....not one. 4 patches so far in a week.

I log into ESO last night and crash as soon as I log in. Meanwhile we have to wait 4+ months for a patch...

WTB The Witcher Online.

4 moar months of this? seriously? I'm not sure I can make it that long...

So thats where you have been, tried to whisper you a couple of times, figured you were playing witcher.

Well I'm counting backwards as well since the last major patch they had. Hell I don't even know if any patch since 2.0 could be considered significant. Minor bug fixes and the like but not a single balance change that I can recall has been done since 2.0.

Just /friend me if you want to know if I'm online. I rarely play my sorc(Nirnhoned), when I'm playing it is usually my NB Perma-dodger. I perma-rolled my way to #4 DC and #6 player overall in BWB by the time I hit Vet1 and had to log.

david.haypreub18_ESO · May 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

I can only assume that ZOS has big plans to nerf dodge rolling .... after console release. Otherwise this fix is a waste of time and a total disaster.

I feel the same. Without doing anything about roll dodging, this 'fix' will make PvP virtually unplayable. Roll dodging is already borderline out of control... to make still more skills dodgeable in this environment would be disastrous.

Erondil · May 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Alternatively, if you really must have Concealed Weapon/Lava Whip etc to go through dodge roll, then make stamina based melee attacks also do so as well.

Then WTB Concelead Weapon through Harness.

DDuke wrote: »

It makes no sense that magicka builds have an unfair edge against stamina builds, thanks to the dodge roll (yes, you can get tons of stamina regen & dodge roll as magicka build as well and do so while having 10k+ worth of uncrittable shields up).

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

david.haypreub18_ESO · May 2015

Oh, also: if you think Jabs will save you, think again: it seems that it too will be dodgeable now.

Erondil · May 2015

Imo every class needs a hardcounter to dodgeroll. Atm concelead weapon and whip are too good as hardcounter (for duels as example, there is no way a dodgeroller can beat a decent magicka nightblade except if this one does huge mistakes), but making rolldodgers totally immune to them and leaving those 2 class without any hardcounter is totally stupid aswell.
2 solutions that could work imo :
-Concelead weapon and whip have x% (I'd say 50%) chances to miss when it hits mid dodgeroll.
-Concelead weapon and whip damages are reduced by x% when it hits mid dodgeroll.

frozywozy · May 2015

OdinForge wrote: »

There are other ways to kill dodge rollers, i don't have a single attack that can hit through dodge. If a stamina user is going to dodge away from me i find another target. When he wants to seriously try and kill me he will he to leave himself open, when he gets some attacks in i block->incapacitating strike for the knockdown. Abilities like petrify and agony hit through dodge, and either force the person to eat damage or CC break.

The best stamina users will either put all their focus into dodging and escape or offense. Contrary to popular belief, people aren't throwing out full DPS while also roll dodging, they're setting up well timed burst in a game where TTK is at an all time low. Even the best stamina users have to leave themselves open to me in a fight.

Magicka DK is becoming popular again, but IMHO way more deadly now when used with heavy armor. The ability for them to tank with block, while also throwing out high damaging whips that cannot be dodged is insane.

Them lowering the requirement for vigor was a mistake.

Did you ever hear about the ability called Fear ? It lower your block and make your character vulnerable for 2seconds since Fear is very hard to cc break to not say impossible to cc break in some occasions. These 2 seconds are all a nightblade need to burst you down and to go right back into stealth dodge / cloak spam until the Fear immunity is over.

Varicite · May 2015

Erondil wrote: »

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

Just gonna leave this here... Works w/ NB too. ; )

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1798636#Comment_1798636

Erondil · May 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

Just gonna leave this here... Works w/ NB too. ; )

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1798636#Comment_1798636

Thats what I said : 0 damages (first CF of the video 5.6k and no light attack weaving).

Varicite · May 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

Just gonna leave this here... Works w/ NB too. ; )

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1798636#Comment_1798636

Thats what I said : 0 damages (first CF of the video 5.6k and no light attack weaving).

And the others average ~8-9k, crits for 12-13k. Perhaps you're unaware that Nirnhoned is a thing?

The poster you quoted said that you can build for dodge rolling and still put up 10k shields while rolling, and that is absolutely true.

Also, it's pretty effective even considering the loss of magicka regen / penetration from Light Armor passives. It works pretty well w/ a NB alternating dodges + Double Take + Dark Cloak also.

Nothing that you posted has contradicted anything that @DDuke said.

But I do like how you cherry-picked the lowest damage CF and are trying to act like that is his normal damage from the ability, lol.

Erondil · May 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

Just gonna leave this here... Works w/ NB too. ; )

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1798636#Comment_1798636

Thats what I said : 0 damages (first CF of the video 5.6k and no light attack weaving).

And the others average ~8-9k, crits for 12-13k. Perhaps you're unaware that Nirnhoned is a thing?

The poster you quoted said that you can build for dodge rolling and still put up 10k shields while rolling, and that is absolutely true.

Also, it's pretty effective even considering the loss of magicka regen / penetration from Light Armor passives. It works pretty well w/ a NB alternating dodges + Double Take + Dark Cloak also.

Nothing that you posted has contradicted anything that @DDuke said.

But I do like how you cherry-picked the lowest damage CF and are trying to act like that is his normal damage from the ability, lol.

He said that there was an unfair desadvantage. Just explained why there isnt.
I didnt picked the lowest CF but the first I saw. There are some higher but all are bugged (fixed now) : the procc bonus damages stacked. Not to mention that this video is a sorc when we are talking about magicka DK and NB.

DDuke · May 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

Just gonna leave this here... Works w/ NB too. ; )

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1798636#Comment_1798636

Thats what I said : 0 damages (first CF of the video 5.6k and no light attack weaving).

That is roughly 4k Whips/Concealed Weapons.

In 13 seconds, you'll have taken atleast 40k completely unavoidable damage. How are you supposed to deal with that, when your build is focused on avoiding damage (via roll dodge & cloak)? Especially if you haven't reached Vigor yet, and happen to be playing a NB.

Answer is, you either instagib the magicka NB/DK, or you die. Whatever the case, it isn't fair or fun for the other side of that fight, and there is hardly any skill involved in either instagibbing people or holding block & spamming one magic button ignoring every defensive mechanism available to your opponent.

Erondil · May 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

Just gonna leave this here... Works w/ NB too. ; )

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1798636#Comment_1798636

Thats what I said : 0 damages (first CF of the video 5.6k and no light attack weaving).

That is roughly 4k Whips/Concealed Weapons.

In 13 seconds, you'll have taken atleast 40k completely unavoidable damage. How are you supposed to deal with that, when your build is focused on avoiding damage (via roll dodge & cloak)? Especially if you haven't reached Vigor yet, and happen to be playing a NB.

Answer is, you either instagib the magicka NB/DK, or you die. Whatever the case, it isn't fair or fun for the other side of that fight, and there is hardly any skill involved in either instagibbing people or holding block & spamming one magic button ignoring every defensive

Plz read

Erondil wrote: »

Imo every class needs a hardcounter to dodgeroll. Atm concelead weapon and whip are too good as hardcounter (for duels as example, there is no way a dodgeroller can beat a decent magicka nightblade except if this one does huge mistakes), but making rolldodgers totally immune to them and leaving those 2 class without any hardcounter is totally stupid aswell.
2 solutions that could work imo :
-Concelead weapon and whip have x% (I'd say 50%) chances to miss when it hits mid dodgeroll.
-Concelead weapon and whip damages are reduced by x% when it hits mid dodgeroll.

OdinForge · May 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

There are other ways to kill dodge rollers, i don't have a single attack that can hit through dodge. If a stamina user is going to dodge away from me i find another target. When he wants to seriously try and kill me he will he to leave himself open, when he gets some attacks in i block->incapacitating strike for the knockdown. Abilities like petrify and agony hit through dodge, and either force the person to eat damage or CC break.

The best stamina users will either put all their focus into dodging and escape or offense. Contrary to popular belief, people aren't throwing out full DPS while also roll dodging, they're setting up well timed burst in a game where TTK is at an all time low. Even the best stamina users have to leave themselves open to me in a fight.

Magicka DK is becoming popular again, but IMHO way more deadly now when used with heavy armor. The ability for them to tank with block, while also throwing out high damaging whips that cannot be dodged is insane.

Them lowering the requirement for vigor was a mistake.

Did you ever hear about the ability called Fear ? It lower your block and make your character vulnerable for 2seconds since Fear is very hard to cc break to not say impossible to cc break in some occasions. These 2 seconds are all a nightblade need to burst you down and to go right back into stealth dodge / cloak spam until the Fear immunity is over.

I'm not using fear anymore, when i use it people whine and moan and make excuses. When i don't use it, people cite it as a viable option make up your minds. Fear cannot catch a break, a great skill that's universally hated by all.

Fear is fantastic in theory, and a way to get around permmablockers. But in a 1v1 scenario fear isn't going to help you counter a decent heavy/magicka DK. Maybe if you have some friends helping you, but alone..forget about it. They just CC break right away and go back to nuking you with whip, you can run away maybe. But that's not helping you win a fight.

Fear works fine if I'm fighting a light/magicka DK, stamina woes and all. But I'm not talking about that spec right now, and I'm talking from the perspective of someone not running fear anyway.

WebBull · May 2015

Few ideas to stop/slow perma dodge rolls...........

- You shouldn't be able to dodge roll through Calrops.
- add a 1-2 sec cool down after each roll
- have it cost more every roll
- stop Stam regen after each dodge rolls for x seconds

DDuke · May 2015

Erondil wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

Just gonna leave this here... Works w/ NB too. ; )

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1798636#Comment_1798636

Thats what I said : 0 damages (first CF of the video 5.6k and no light attack weaving).

That is roughly 4k Whips/Concealed Weapons.

In 13 seconds, you'll have taken atleast 40k completely unavoidable damage. How are you supposed to deal with that, when your build is focused on avoiding damage (via roll dodge & cloak)? Especially if you haven't reached Vigor yet, and happen to be playing a NB.

Answer is, you either instagib the magicka NB/DK, or you die. Whatever the case, it isn't fair or fun for the other side of that fight, and there is hardly any skill involved in either instagibbing people or holding block & spamming one magic button ignoring every defensive

Plz read

Erondil wrote: »

Imo every class needs a hardcounter to dodgeroll. Atm concelead weapon and whip are too good as hardcounter (for duels as example, there is no way a dodgeroller can beat a decent magicka nightblade except if this one does huge mistakes), but making rolldodgers totally immune to them and leaving those 2 class without any hardcounter is totally stupid aswell.
2 solutions that could work imo :
-Concelead weapon and whip have x% (I'd say 50%) chances to miss when it hits mid dodgeroll.
-Concelead weapon and whip damages are reduced by x% when it hits mid dodgeroll.

I did read, and it's good that you atleast partially recognize the problem.

But let's take a look at the problem (didn't "exist" before stamina regen rates went through the roof): someone spams dodge roll forever, avoiding every single attack you make. This is what frustrates people, right? I can totally understand that.

Then on the other side, you have stamina builds that are frustrated at getting hit by these instant cast skills, without being able to do anything about it.
Dodge roll is something you use reactively when not built for cheesy 3k stamina regen, to avoid a big hit (e.g. CF or Ambush+Surprise attack/Concealed Weapon, Soul Harvest, etc).

Should you fail to avoid that big hit, you're likely to die. This is where 100% unavoidable attacks become a problem, they force you to either change spec and become a tank character, or to die.

On the other hand, there are skills that go through dodge roll which I consider fair:

Jesus beam - cloak counters it (though often breaks immediately as well, which should be fixed), or you can interrupt it
Meteor - not spammable, not an instant hit and you can cloak quickly if you're good enough, or hit a potion/block if you're not a NB)
Velocious Curse - initially I wasn't a huge fan of it hitting dodge rolling targets & being unable to cloak away, but you can actually counter it by blocking, letting it explode & cloaking at the very same time before sorc manages to reapply it)
Petrify/Fear - kind of on the fence about Petrify since it isn't avoidable by good positioning, but it gives the DK the 1,3s GCD so it's just a stamina drain and not a big deal. Same with fear, except you can also avoid it very easily by maintaining distance from the NB.
Hitting the vulnerability period after roll dodge. Somewhat difficult to do and happens after the dodge roll.

These have all something in common: they have skill based counters. The better player wins, basicly.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing more skills like these, more widely available to players.

As for your solutions, they still wouldn't change the fact that a magicka build can simply hold block, spam those skills & win (although more slowly than before).

Much more elegant solution would be addressing the core problem, which is that players dodge roll infinitely.

It is not reactionary, skill based mechanism for these players, it is just another substitute for the "dmg shield button" magicka builds have & gladly spam without remorse. And this frustrates people.

On the other hand, if you lengthen the "cooldown" between dodge rolls, you'll have a reactionary ability and as consequence more skill, less spam based combat.

Alternatively, they could just make it cost more the more times you use it in a row (e.g. first dodge roll 100% cost, second 200%, third 300% and so on..). This would be perfectly fine.

glavius · May 2015

Is dodge from shuffle also ignored by whip and concealed?

Ezareth · May 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

Just gonna leave this here... Works w/ NB too. ; )

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1798636#Comment_1798636

Thats what I said : 0 damages (first CF of the video 5.6k and no light attack weaving).

That is roughly 4k Whips/Concealed Weapons.

In 13 seconds, you'll have taken atleast 40k completely unavoidable damage. How are you supposed to deal with that, when your build is focused on avoiding damage (via roll dodge & cloak)? Especially if you haven't reached Vigor yet, and happen to be playing a NB.

Answer is, you either instagib the magicka NB/DK, or you die. Whatever the case, it isn't fair or fun for the other side of that fight, and there is hardly any skill involved in either instagibbing people or holding block & spamming one magic button ignoring every defensive mechanism available to your opponent.

Undodgeable abilities are all melee range abilities. It's pretty easy for me to fear/spam - Retreating manuevers and just dodge gap closers and keep sprinting away from a magicka dk/magicka NB until you can run them out of stamina via fear spam.

Or you can dodge roll *through* them.

People who can only spam a single ability (I.e, Dodge roll, cloak, bolt escape) as their only defense mechanism are just bad and die easily. I use 3-5 defensive abilities(including dodge roll) in every class/build I play. Dead people kill no one.

frozywozy · May 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

Just gonna leave this here... Works w/ NB too. ; )

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1798636#Comment_1798636

Thats what I said : 0 damages (first CF of the video 5.6k and no light attack weaving).

That is roughly 4k Whips/Concealed Weapons.

In 13 seconds, you'll have taken atleast 40k completely unavoidable damage. How are you supposed to deal with that, when your build is focused on avoiding damage (via roll dodge & cloak)? Especially if you haven't reached Vigor yet, and happen to be playing a NB.

Answer is, you either instagib the magicka NB/DK, or you die. Whatever the case, it isn't fair or fun for the other side of that fight, and there is hardly any skill involved in either instagibbing people or holding block & spamming one magic button ignoring every defensive mechanism available to your opponent.

Undodgeable abilities are all melee range abilities. It's pretty easy for me to fear/spam - Retreating manuevers and just dodge gap closers and keep sprinting away from a magicka dk/magicka NB until you can run them out of stamina via fear spam.

Or you can dodge roll *through* them.

People who can only spam a single ability (I.e, Dodge roll, cloak, bolt escape) as their only defense mechanism are just bad and die easily. I use 3-5 defensive abilities(including dodge roll) in every class/build I play. Dead people kill no one.

This^

timidobserver · May 2015

My suggestion. Add the "Bypasses Dodge" property to one damage ability for each class and one damage ability for each weapon type.

DDuke · May 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

You have literally no clue about what you're saying.
You won't dodgeroll much in light armor (3-6 times before to be oos) and if you wanna play yor magicka build with medium armor, then you will have 0 damages (basically as much as a tank) and/or 0 magicka sustain. It's exactly same as a stamina player who max up his magicka to 32k (what you need for 10k shields) and tries to shieldstack.
The only specc you've ever played is stamina nightblade, how can you be so sure about things you've never tested on live?

Just gonna leave this here... Works w/ NB too. ; )

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1798636#Comment_1798636

Thats what I said : 0 damages (first CF of the video 5.6k and no light attack weaving).

That is roughly 4k Whips/Concealed Weapons.

In 13 seconds, you'll have taken atleast 40k completely unavoidable damage. How are you supposed to deal with that, when your build is focused on avoiding damage (via roll dodge & cloak)? Especially if you haven't reached Vigor yet, and happen to be playing a NB.

Answer is, you either instagib the magicka NB/DK, or you die. Whatever the case, it isn't fair or fun for the other side of that fight, and there is hardly any skill involved in either instagibbing people or holding block & spamming one magic button ignoring every defensive mechanism available to your opponent.

Undodgeable abilities are all melee range abilities. It's pretty easy for me to fear/spam - Retreating manuevers and just dodge gap closers and keep sprinting away from a magicka dk/magicka NB until you can run them out of stamina via fear spam.

Undodgeable abilities are all magicka melee range abilities. Stamina ones are very dodgeable still.
If I could deliver unavoidable damage as a stamina build as well, that'd be... well, still broken, but atleast fair.

Speaking of gap closers, Teleport Strike is not dodgeable (while Ambush is).

Also, good luck running away from anyone, when you're hit by these gap closers (whether you manage to dodge them or not) followed by whips or concealed weapons and snared by the whips (30%) & caltrops.

Try to get your stamina NB to veteran ranks atleast before commenting.

Ezareth wrote: »

Or you can dodge roll *through* them.

People who can only spam a single ability (I.e, Dodge roll, cloak, bolt escape) as their only defense mechanism are just bad and die easily. I use 3-5 defensive abilities(including dodge roll) in every class/build I play. Dead people kill no one.

Duh.

Dodge Roll
Cloak
Mirage

All have hard counters that you can do absolutely nothing about, or don't provide enough benefit to keep you alive (Mirage).
Can you say the same about your sorc's dmg shields?

Lorkhan · May 2015

where did you hear that lava whip and conceal weapon will not hit thru dodge?
can anyone link me to this info?