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Why do you think the global cool down on Toppling Charge exists?
Jaxsun
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Why do you think the global cool down on Toppling Charge exists? 64 votes
anti-botting mechanic
12%
8 votes
bad design
17%
11 votes
they're saying it's intended because they don't know how to change it
35%
23 votes
they're saying it's intended because it's too expensive to change it
10%
7 votes
cuz it's magicka based?
4%
3 votes
other, please explain
18%
12 votes
0
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glak✭✭✭they're saying it's intended because it's too expensive to change itBoth anti-bot and now that the genius that added it is gone, it's too complex to remove correctly. GGG2
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭i actually have no clue as implementing it has absolutly no benifit. it doesent prevent botting the slightest, it cant be bad design as it did work different in the beginning, so its at best a decission to change it that way ...spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
KanedaSyndrome✭✭✭✭they're saying it's intended because they don't know how to change itThey don't know how to fix their own code, that's what I believe. We've seen it several times before. For instance, with the infinite mount sprint, that's not intended, but they don't know how to fix a simple bug like that, so suddenly it was a "feature".
They're basically clueless when it comes to their own game code.KanedaSyndrome's Suggestions For Game Improvements
The Fortuitous Collapse of the Wave Equation
The Best Plans Require No Action4 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭other, please explainIt is being used to mask other problems. Hence the GCD If they remove it then they will have to fix the other underlying issues with it locking out all abilities on the bar. In addition TC applies a cc right off of the bat. Its sister morph does not.0 -
danovic✭✭✭other, please explainBecause it useing the shield charge subroutine but has a pause in place to compensate for the lack of the shield charge animation shield slam. It needs its own subroutine.1
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asteldian✭✭✭✭they're saying it's intended because it's too expensive to change itToo time consuming to fix, so made it a feature. Sloppy design basically.0
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tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭other, please explainEvery templar ability has to be:
1.Channeled
2.Cast
3.GCD
4.Useless(just like eclipse)VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer1 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭other, please explainWhere's the option for all of the above? I am all the disappoint.POST EQVITEM SEDET ATRA CVRA
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
EP ※ Teargrants ※
EP ※ Kissgrants ※
DC ※ Kirsi ※
※ Vehemence Council ※
※ #JustOutOfRenderRange ※
~Teargrants YouTube~
┬┴┬┴┤(･_├┬┴┬┴0 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭other, please explain
Wrong.Because it useing the shield charge subroutine but has a pause in place to compensate for the lack of the shield charge animation shield slam. It needs its own subroutine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kb3lNjEnAI
As you can see in the video, i can use Jabs much faster after invasion, there is a 600 milliseconds delay on the templar charge.Edited by tplink3r1 on May 25, 2015 12:18AMVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer0 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭other, please explain
ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)4 -
tengri✭✭✭✭✭they're saying it's intended because they don't know how to change itThis, actually.
Personally I've come to believe that no one who designed/worked on the code during pre/early launch is still around. Not counting the promotion/marketing suits of course... I mean the actual ppl who did the low level grunt work.
And now no one really knows what's going on under the hood and they are too afraid to touch stuff they dont fully understand...
Well... maybe not.
But sure feels that way - for me at least... just take a look at all those various attempts to "fix" stuff. Hardly anything ever worked out the way the patch notes suggested. *** like that happens if someone is playing with code they do not fully understand... and if there is not enough QA/testing to catch it before it hits the fan.
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Ffastyl✭✭✭✭✭other, please explainToppling Charge originally had no GCD, and it was being used/spammed to oblivion. Players would in an almost literal sense ping-pong across battlefields with more mobility than Sorcerers. How much wait time was there back then? Your controls were unlocked the moment you reached your target, not a millisecond afterwards. So if the animations played out right, you could Toppling Charge a single target twice or thrice in a row, without pause. This was the one skill everyone cried "nerf" for on Templars. And so it got a GCD."A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
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Member since May 4th, 2014.3 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭other, please explain
wut? I play this game since day 1 and i never heard someone asking zos to nerf the templar charge, lol.Toppling Charge originally had no GCD, and it was being used/spammed to oblivion. Players would in an almost literal sense ping-pong across battlefields with more mobility than Sorcerers. How much wait time was there back then? Your controls were unlocked the moment you reached your target, not a millisecond afterwards. So if the animations played out right, you could Toppling Charge a single target twice or thrice in a row, without pause. This was the one skill everyone cried "nerf" for on Templars. And so it got a GCD.VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer3 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭they're saying it's intended because it's too expensive to change itToppling Charge originally had no GCD, and it was being used/spammed to oblivion. Players would in an almost literal sense ping-pong across battlefields with more mobility than Sorcerers. How much wait time was there back then? Your controls were unlocked the moment you reached your target, not a millisecond afterwards. So if the animations played out right, you could Toppling Charge a single target twice or thrice in a row, without pause. This was the one skill everyone cried "nerf" for on Templars. And so it got a GCD.
I can ping-pong around the same way with 2H's Critical Rush/Stampede... what difference does it make? I do believe you, though. This is exactly the kind of thing people whine about. Overload has a similar cooldown that makes it such a PITA to use sometimes. There was like ONE week on the PTS when the cooldown was removed, and it was awesome. Some people whined, though. and the cooldown came back with the next patch... yes, even the PTS has PvP whiners!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭other, please explain@tengri is on the right path.
The cooldown was probably a side-effect of a bandaid they implemented to prevent another problem. It is a bug. They know its a bug. But fixing it means pulling off the bandaid and dealing with the festering mass underneath. Which could effect other parts of the code and have other potential side effects.
This happens often when a company buys a pre-fab software solution for their company. Usually something big like an ERP system (no, not that kind of ERP), a graphics engine, or a some other huge piece of software the permeates the whole business.
At first everything is fine. The company selling the software answers all your questions, accommodates all your demands for customization and support.
Then you cancel the maintenance contract and support service to save money. After all, a few of your programmers should be able to maintain and modify the code. They went to that 2 week seminar hosted by the software vendor after all. How hard could it be? This would be an awesome way to save money!
Then the cracks start to show. You start to learn the limitations of the software and there is only so much you can modify without getting deep into the code and really changing some low level settings. You try that one time, and really bork things up. The side-effects ricochet though the rest of the sorfware modules and it takes a week plus several expensive support calls to the software vendor to unscrew it. You mention to management that now might be the time to reconsider that service and support contract but they are no longer interested once the fire has been put back out and its back to business as usual.
This is about when the politics start. You have a great idea to fix or change something but it requires messing with some low level settings. Management is afraid to do that because of what happened last time. The manager that directly oversees those two programmers that actually know a bit about the code becomes a power broker in meetings.
Have a good idea? "We can't do that because the engine doesn't work that way." He says confidently. What he really means is he doesn't like that idea or doesn't want to commit his programmers to doing it because he has them doing other things.
So the people more closely related to the project always want to improve the game. Management doesn't give them the time and resources they need to fix things and crappy politics ensue.
Some variation of this is what usually happens. I wrote more about what happens next and how a bug magically turns into a feature in the other templar thread.It is the next step in this process.
Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on May 25, 2015 2:18AM5 -
KanedaSyndrome✭✭✭✭KanedaSyndrome's Suggestions For Game Improvements
The Fortuitous Collapse of the Wave Equation
The Best Plans Require No Action0 -
Hymzir✭✭✭✭✭
✭bad designI almost voted:"they're saying it's intended because it's too expensive to change it" but ended up voting "bad design" because... Well, I have zero confidence in the design skills of the devs. They've shown it time after time, with imbalances and badly though out skills. The classes started inequal and have remained so. I still remember the hey-day of the Dragon Knights when we Templars shared the bottom of the barrel with the Nightblades. Everyone was running around with sticks in skirts and stamina builds were a joke and there was no downside to being a vampire.
When they finally fixed that they ended up making stamina users ridicilously powerful and turned Nightblades into insta killing OP flavor of the month. They also turned Cyrodiil into a first person shooter sniper fest. Now we Templars have a new buddy at the bottom of the barrel - the magicka base DK who totally got shot in the knee. But thanks to their former glory they haven't quite sunk to the same level of uselesness we Templars have been enjoying since start and since they can just go stamina and become competetive again we Templars are feeling quite lonely here at the bottom.
So yeah... the designers behind this nonsense seem to simply be really bad at game design.0 -
RSram✭✭✭✭✭bad designI don't know why ZOS just didn't use look up tables for the attributes of ALL items and abilities in the game. Look up tables are extremely quick to look up in real time and the data is compartmentalized in that changing one item doesn't effect another. I'm referring to a simple linear table, not one that needs a bloated database engine.
I think that the developers didn't spend enough time developing a game mechanics systems that could easily be maintained, and modified. I think the current game system is too complex with too many special case abilities and skills.
I believe that the majority of the 5 years were spent on the visual and audio aspects of the game; of which I give them an A+, but game mechanic should have been the first priority.1 -
Kaliki✭✭✭✭bad designFirst I didnt know what to vote for... but then I thought about the "anticipate healing" thing concerning our emergency instant cast heal.
Sluggish templar skills seems to be part of their class design principles.- Templars: Slower by Design® -0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This, actually.
Personally I've come to believe that no one who designed/worked on the code during pre/early launch is still around. Not counting the promotion/marketing suits of course... I mean the actual ppl who did the low level grunt work.
And now no one really knows what's going on under the hood
Well this would be consistant with reports of intermittant abrupt massive layoffs of programmers.
But it seems like (in theory) some other good programmer (given time and access to the program/computer) should be able to figure it out - so in theory I would think that only explains a short-term problem.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭they're saying it's intended because they don't know how to change itThey said a while ago that there is supposed to be no GCD, in one of the recent updates they reduced it slightly, what would the point be of not getting rid of it completely?
So it leads to 2 options:
-ZoS doesn't know how to fix the GCD on charge and will one day in the distant future, finally fix it
-ZoS wants it to have the GCD and may slightly reduce it more until they are happy with it and you'll never hear about changing the GCD on it ever again.~Thallen~0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭other, please explainZoS knows how to fix it because they did reduced the GCD from 1.5.
That they are leaving it there means it is a conscious choice.
From the poll options "bad design" is probably closest, but I think it is more accurate to say ZoS has no clue how their game actual plays - especially PvP - so it more a design by ignorance than just a bad idea.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
Lynnessa✭✭✭✭This, actually.
Personally I've come to believe that no one who designed/worked on the code during pre/early launch is still around. Not counting the promotion/marketing suits of course... I mean the actual ppl who did the low level grunt work.
And now no one really knows what's going on under the hood and they are too afraid to touch stuff they dont fully understand...
...
*** like that happens if someone is playing with code they do not fully understand...
On August 29, 2015, ESO became self aware...1 -
david.haypreub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭anti-botting mechanic
Wrong.Because it useing the shield charge subroutine but has a pause in place to compensate for the lack of the shield charge animation shield slam. It needs its own subroutine.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kb3lNjEnAI
As you can see in the video, i can use Jabs much faster after invasion, there is a 600 milliseconds delay on the templar charge.
Great video. If there's any image that sums up the Templar problems in 7 seconds, that is it.Templars are 'just slower... by design'
Yes, Gina actually said that (at least regarding Rushed Ceremony) right here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p24
VR 16 Templar (retired until Templars get fixed)
VR 16 Sorcerer
38 Nightblade
24 DK2 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭other, please explainThis is all pure speculation but here's my explanation:
The global cooldown was introduced as a temporary fix to prevent a stunlock bug from happening (both in PvE and PvP) at a time when this was still a problem.
Now that this cooldown is not needed anymore (since the cc effects involved grant cc immunity when they end and only the final hit of Puncturing Strikes and its morphs has a knockback effect) it would be very complex and require a lot of work to remove that mechanic again and the team that would have to do this has other tasks which are considered a higher priority (and require less time). It's possible that they tried to remove it in a quick fix but then realized how complex the task would be and how long it would take and the fix possibly created other, new problems so they decided to keep the global cooldown in effect for now and possibly remove it properly (which will very likely take a lot of time) at a later date.
Again, this is all pure speculation
Edited by GaldorP on May 25, 2015 7:24PM1