Savetti wrote: »

Hopefully this does not make it live... If it does i will be very sad.

All this tells me is ZOS would be punishing those who PLAY the game, with restrictions, while those that whip out their wallet and don't PLAY the game, get rewarded.

Sallington wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

If it circumvents the daily cooldown, it's P2W.

THIS^

Uh what? Pay to win is getting something more than someone else can. This is basically saying everything is pay to win if it saves time? So they can add nothing and make no money. Good logic.

Or, you know, they could stick to what they original said and just fill the shop with cosmetics. Mounts, costumes, etc.

There's no shortage of money to be made there I'm sure.

There is enough a shortage for them to look at things and decide to fix it. While I would prefer this handled differently, I think it is a good way to both make money and speed things up.
Note, they also spoke of adding convenience items. Saving time=convince. Mounts are a time sink (the gold is barely anything over a 6month period). There is a max and there is no direct combat bonus to mounts (time taken to travel, even in Cyrodiil is not a direct combat benefit).

I think that's why the community is so split on P2W items.

There's the opinion that P2W only refers to an advantage in combat, and then there's the opinion that gives and advantage to time played to achieve something.

My opinion if you can pay money to do something quicker than someone else, it's P2W.

I have said this before but this is why I think the P2W label is an inaccurate label for what people are using it for. The problem with cash shops aren't P2W items specifically but any items that disrupt standard gameplay. This would include P2W items obviously but would also include boosters/pots that allow players to skip content or lore-breaking mounts/costumes or convenience items that fix in-game problems purposely created for the purpose of pushing players to the cash shop (bank/bag slots for overly restrictive bags/bank - see NW or reduced research times - again, see NW etc..).

WebBull wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As with anything that's datamined, the content is still in development and subject to change. That said, we do indeed intend to release Riding Lessons to the Crown Store in the future. This will allow you to increase your riding stats (speed, stamina, and capacity) at a faster rate through crowns, though you will not be able to attain more than the maximum 60 points per skill. We are still finalizing the rest of the details, and appreciate your continued feedback!

Excellent. It will help those new to the game and alts. Too may people getting their panties in a bunch over nothing.

No, it will not. Those new to the game and those with alts will be just coerced into purchasing riding lessons or else they will not only lag behind those that already have maxed out mounts but also those that do not but pay.
If there is problem with rate, then rate could be like...increased perhaps?...instead of the problem monetized.

I wonder how much it will cost to completely max out your horse all at one time.

Selling convenience items and 'fluff' items on the crown store are ok, but they are playing a fine line, and so far doing it well.

As soon as they sell items like undaunted gold keys, CP potions or enlightenment potions, it becomes pay to win.

Selling motifs, riding skill potions and exp potions (for pre L50 levels) are fine, but we feel they are getting close to the line. Lets hope they do not cross it. I want them to make money and improve the game.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As with anything that's datamined, the content is still in development and subject to change. That said, we do indeed intend to release Riding Lessons to the Crown Store in the future. This will allow you to increase your riding stats (speed, stamina, and capacity) at a faster rate through crowns, though you will not be able to attain more than the maximum 60 points per skill. We are still finalizing the rest of the details, and appreciate your continued feedback!

Do you ever get tired of writing basically the same response to any data-mined images? ( after re-reading this sounds like im being negative which is not intended, actually a genuine question)

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As with anything that's datamined, the content is still in development and subject to change. That said, we do indeed intend to release Riding Lessons to the Crown Store in the future. This will allow you to increase your riding stats (speed, stamina, and capacity) at a faster rate through crowns, though you will not be able to attain more than the maximum 60 points per skill. We are still finalizing the rest of the details, and appreciate your continued feedback!

Phase 1: Click a button, level up your riding skills.

Phase 2: Click a button, research a trait.

Phase 3: Click a button, get an Alliance War level / Champion rank.

Click. Click. Click.
Dollars. Dollars. Dollars.

How far does it have to go?

I'd rather they fix the training system instead of selling us a way out of it. Zenimax don't be this guy...

That said I don't think it really qualifies as "pay to win".

...horse training...ZOS is monetising horse training...

...yeah, that's a great idea, really going to keep people playing by circumventing a daily objective that encouraged daily logins...

Certainly a brilliant design move for a game struggling with low population...

Getting people to log in to feed their horse isn't getting them to play.

TERAB1T wrote: »

Riding Lessons are coming to the Crown Store.

That is something i would pay for in a heart beat lol.

People around here blatantly misuse the phrase "pay to win". It's really funny that you'd use the same phrase to describe selling riding skill upgrades that you'd use to describe selling v14 characters and best in slot gear.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As with anything that's datamined, the content is still in development and subject to change. That said, we do indeed intend to release Riding Lessons to the Crown Store in the future. This will allow you to increase your riding stats (speed, stamina, and capacity) at a faster rate through crowns, though you will not be able to attain more than the maximum 60 points per skill. We are still finalizing the rest of the details, and appreciate your continued feedback!

If you can't exceed the max riding skills earned on the account (levelling alts, for example) I'm fine with it.

Otherwise ...not the decision I'd make were I ZOS.

nastuug wrote: »

TERAB1T wrote: »

Riding Lessons are coming to the Crown Store.

mmm, tasty.

Love this...one of the main reasons I don't play my alts

Nifty2g wrote: »

It's a horse people, a horse. get over it

Sigh. I know you mean well, but this is not about horses.

Varicite wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

It's a horse people, a horse. get over it

Sigh. I know you mean well, but this is not about horses.

You should probably learn to pick your battles better. This is about horses.

When they introduce the XP pots linked directly to gaining CP faster, or AP pots, or things of that nature, you'll most likely have a much larger backing.

Any amount of XP boost will lead directly to gaining CP faster, will it not?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As with anything that's datamined, the content is still in development and subject to change. That said, we do indeed intend to release Riding Lessons to the Crown Store in the future. This will allow you to increase your riding stats (speed, stamina, and capacity) at a faster rate through crowns, though you will not be able to attain more than the maximum 60 points per skill. We are still finalizing the rest of the details, and appreciate your continued feedback!

As honest feedback I ask that you please, please, please stop monetizing aspects of this game. The effort spent creating merchandise for the Crown store would be better spent working to improve on features already in the game. If the time it takes to train mounts is genuinely considered too restrictive by the majority or the player base then the answer isn't Crown store boosters but improvements the system itself.

When the community begged for improvements to Provisioning you guys came through and gave us a full revision. When we asked that Werewolves be improved you gave us all new skills, longer duration and better damage scaling. When the cry went out for improvements to Two-Handed weapons you did more than make it viable you actually made it fun. When bots were running amuck and driving us all off the deep end you guys logged into the game and did your best to clear some of them out. Maybe it didn't have a huge impact in stopping them, (what ever really does?) but it bought us a few precious moments of peace now and again and gave the impression that you did care about the problem.

You've got it in you to do great things, the potential is definitely there. I'm not going to lie and say it's been all roses and sunshine. There have been missteps, (and more than a few WTF were they thinking moments ) and there's still a lot that needs to be improved upon. It's just that Cash shop short cuts aren't what's needed to make this game good.

What we need is to have so many of the half finished features fully fleshed out. We need content that makes Tamriel feel less static. We need that weird little something that makes you spend all day doing nothing and still come away feeling like you accomplished something.

Things like XP potions, respect scrolls, horse boosters they're band aids. They do nothing to fix the true underlying problems. What's more by promoting them (and boy howdy do you promote them, pretty much splashed all over the main page and launcher. Not to mention you've given us two in-game ads so far, tut tut ) it makes it look as though your more interested in your bottom line than anything else. That's very a troubling thing and doesn't do much to instill much faith in the future of this game.

I could see reasons for dropping the sub. After all you can't expect console players to pay a sub for Xbox Gold or PSN Network and a sub for ESO. You damn sure can't expects Sony or Microsoft to wave their network fees. And you certainly can't expect PC players to continue paying a sub when console players don't. It's platform politics (There's more to it probably but that's at least a good enough cover story, lol)

Honestly it's not even really the cash shop that draws so much ire. It's what's getting put in there that's causing so much concern. I could forgive a cash shop if it only supplied things like costumes, pets, mounts (skins not stats, no uber horse please), name changes, character makeovers, faction changes, character slots. All these things are fine. It's when you start putting convenience items in there that things get dicey. Regardless of whether it's overtly p2w or simply questionable anything that circumvents/detours/negates or replaces an already existing feature of the game is simply a kick in the face to those of us who have been playing and supporting this game to this point.

Not because it detracts from our sense of pride. Not because it mean we can't claim special status. Not because we feel like we're owed something. It's because we sat through the bugs, the bots, the nerfs, the buffs, the lag, the botched patch releases, the freak roll backs, the disappearing bank items, the exploits, and all those other unforgettable whoopsies of the past thirteen or so months. Many have done their best to provide helpful feedback to catch the issues and help improve the overall quality of the game. There are many who've gone above and beyond to help their fellow players with technical issues. We care for the game, we care for the community. Through everything that went wrong we still payed our subs, not to lord it over somebody (well maybe some did folks are funny like that) but because we wanted to support this game. We wanted to see it turn into something really worth it. We wanted to believe that the sub fees were going to count for something. What we were paying for was a promise that though there would be mistakes from time to time the game, was going to get better.

Sadly it's looking like that isn't going to happen. So much has been left unfinished or forgotten that it's disheartening. Truthfully, the push for the cash shop makes it look like the game is dying and your trying to make a cash grab to scoop up what profits you can while you can. And that's a really, really depressing thought.


Good god this is more of a rant then I intended. Still, this is my honest and sincere feed back take it for what you will

Psychobunni wrote: »

You know, I wish @ZOS would put an end to data mining. Half the time it just creates fights before we have final product.

Most data mined objects have been extremely close to the final product. Why would you not want the player base to discuss upcoming changes and voice their opinions on the matter?