[Data Mining] New Crown Store Items from 2.0.8

ShadowMage · May 2015

I don't consider this p2w unless somebody who already has them all maxed (at 60/60/60; the max achievable with in-game gold) can still buy more points.

There isn't anything in the store right now, that I would consider p2w:
Motifs - can find them in game, either by drops, trade, or guild stores; doesn't really provide an advantage since it's cosmetic
Respecs - can be bought using in game gold; again, no real advantage as you're just reassigning points already earned
XP potions (I don't remember are these in the store right now?) - somewhat borderline, but not p2w. it's only a small boost

I would also not classify crafting mats (with the exception of rare ones like nirncrux) as p2w. They're easy enough to farm. Trait research is borderline, like XP. If it was a small reduction in time, that would be fine, but if they outright sold traits, that'd be p2w. Bank/bag space is not p2w, except if you could exceed the caps achievable using in-game gold.

Directly selling levels or v14 characters would be p2w (with a possible exception for accounts that already have a v14 character, but that's pushing it). Top-end or exclusive gear is p2w. Skill/Attribute points are p2w, especially attribute points. Gold/AP packs would be p2w. Pay-gating dungeons (except for DLC/expansions) is p2w. Pay-gating features (as an example: weapon swap or using mounts) is p2w. Pay-gated loot boxes (ie, buy a key to unlock this chest) are p2w.

nastuug · May 2015

Sallington wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

I see all these P2W tears, from the same people who were raging against subs.

I defended ZOS religiously when people were saying the game would go B2P/F2P. I thought "no way would they stray from the sub model. It's BY FAR the best model for quality content and support. They even said they would never go B2P/F2P for that very reason"

Now, here we are with the B2P cash store, and the game is going about as crappily as I would have expected with the B2P transition.

@Sallington It's not the best model for quality content and support if you're losing subs faster than Warhammer Online...

BloodWolfe · May 2015

olsborg wrote: »

Alts, buy up that stamina and speed, you wont be knocked of your horse as easily. IMO its p2w.

Well your opinion isn't fact and fact is this is NOT p2w! People need to stop throwing around that term for anything and everything they don' agree with. It's NOT p2w!

P2W is buying a max level character with best gear for RL money or buying items on the cash shop that are not obtainable in game like high end raid gear, etc... that is only obtainable with RL money and so on. Riding training is NOT p2w by any means of the definition.

Varicite · May 2015

BloodWolfe wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Alts, buy up that stamina and speed, you wont be knocked of your horse as easily. IMO its p2w.

Well your opinion isn't fact and fact is this is NOT p2w!

Actually, that is also an opinion.

dafox187 · May 2015

i defended the crown store when they added it i defended it when they added motifs but this this is strait up p2w

dafox187 · May 2015

it is pay to win but im still going to use it

Sylvyr · May 2015

There's differences in what is P2W and there's differences in degree of P2W.

P2W is such a broad thing in a game like this that defining "win" can be several different things. Maybe P2W needs to be broken down?

One P2W concept is that if someone pays to get items/stats/abilities beyond what the game makes available to players that don't pay. Maybe rephrase as P2BOP Pay to Be Over Powered. These things are exclusive to payers some would call this a pay gate.

Another P2W concept has to do with relativity. This concept plays on what "win" can include. For progression games like this (with the exception of the hardest hardcore RPer), "winnING" has to do with progressING. If 2 players with the same stats and level etc are side by side and one pays to progress faster that the other, they are winning faster, hence P2W. but perhaps this should be called P2PROGRESS or P2SKIP? Paying for things that reduce cooldowns or increase gold or XP would clearly fall into this.

In any case, the degree of these things also matter.

For example if 10% XP boost is P2W but no one cares about a 10% boost then so what. If it is a 50% XP bonus, more people (but not necessarily all) might start caring.
Or if you are already ahead of a noob willing to P2SKIP to catch up to you, maybe not a big deal, maybe a good thing as they are paying for the game. But if you are not already ahead and someone else is P2SKIP they are passing you up using money. Might not like that so much.

As far as good or bad, it's not completely black or white. Lots of differing opinions and thresholds

ZoS is totally testing the waters around this.

Don't like it? Give them feedback that's all you can do. Don't pay attention to the people saying stop complaining you don't have to justify it. Still don't like it? Don't sub, don't buy stuff.

On the other hand I can understand how a lot of people are sick of complaints. There are soooooooooooo many. My advice to you is don't read them if you can't handle it.

Varicite · May 2015

Sylvyr wrote: »

On the other hand I can understand how a lot of people are sick of complaints. There are soooooooooooo many. My advice to you is don't read them if you can't handle it.

Strange thing about complaints... People who are happy don't generally come to the forums to post about it.

So of course there are a lot of complaints here.

However, your advice is still pretty good; don't like it, don't read them. The topics are pretty clearly marked.

LtCrunch · May 2015

Sallington wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

For all of the people thinking it's no big detail because it's just the dumb horses, it won't be long before you are bypassing trait research cooldowns. Or buying stacks of mats. Or purchasing AP packs.

Delusional. Paranoid.

Totally paranoid, because ZOS has a track record of sticking to their word. Just like how they were never going to stray from the subscription model, because that would be the best way for them to deliver the kind of quality content they were expecting to release, and how the cash shop was going to be 100% cosmetics only.

Have you never seen/played any other F2P MMO? It's common sense that this is how this type of thing progresses.

Too bad the developers never said either of the things I've bolded .

driosketch · May 2015

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

It is also interesting that ZOS seems to have tacitly adopted a "Crown Store preview" system by knowing people will datamine each new patch and revealing what's coming up soon in the Store. So far, the datamined items have been very accurate with what's will soon be released, or at least what they are thinking about releasing. Without fail, posts are made on forums and the items are debated, which provides ZOS useful data to gauge player responses and market for the proposed item. Clever marketing strategy.

Sounds like this might be what this is. Afterall, we have seen two data mined versions of the xp potion, and it has yet to enter the store.

Exstazik · May 2015

Crown Imperial Motif=5k crowns
Ingame Imperial Motif~85k gold

We need 180 days*250g=45k gold. But if we back to "p2p" model add 3 month subcribe to the cost of books we get
(45k gold ~2500 crowns+~60$(~6k crowns)+1500 Crowns as bonuses*3 )/ 3=4333

So if 1 book will cost ~6-7k Crowns it will be ok.All that less-p2w

*As i think ZOS add by a little some items to Crown_shop
1)before TU launch:"only 100% cosmetic"
2)TU :"well....it's just reduced time"
3)after console launch:"well...anything can changed.SO here is 5/5/5 or 30/30/30 CP packs"

All 1,2,3=keep you to think that all is ok and after ZOS completely find new player$ from console as constant $$$ you will "BOOMed with p2w shop.And thanks for beta test

"

oddavi · May 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

The fix to long research times is not Crown Store, it is shorter research times.

This fix to 180 days to maximize horse training is not Crown Store, it is less time to maximize traning.

The fix to all game play issues happens to be fixing the game.

Finally

Fruitmass · May 2015

ShadowMage wrote: »

I don't consider this p2w unless somebody who already has them all maxed (at 60/60/60; the max achievable with in-game gold) can still buy more points.

There isn't anything in the store right now, that I would consider p2w:
Motifs - can find them in game, either by drops, trade, or guild stores; doesn't really provide an advantage since it's cosmetic
Respecs - can be bought using in game gold; again, no real advantage as you're just reassigning points already earned
XP potions (I don't remember are these in the store right now?) - somewhat borderline, but not p2w. it's only a small boost

I would also not classify crafting mats (with the exception of rare ones like nirncrux) as p2w. They're easy enough to farm. Trait research is borderline, like XP. If it was a small reduction in time, that would be fine, but if they outright sold traits, that'd be p2w. Bank/bag space is not p2w, except if you could exceed the caps achievable using in-game gold.

Directly selling levels or v14 characters would be p2w (with a possible exception for accounts that already have a v14 character, but that's pushing it). Top-end or exclusive gear is p2w. Skill/Attribute points are p2w, especially attribute points. Gold/AP packs would be p2w. Pay-gating dungeons (except for DLC/expansions) is p2w. Pay-gating features (as an example: weapon swap or using mounts) is p2w. Pay-gated loot boxes (ie, buy a key to unlock this chest) are p2w.

Crown store motifs can be learned right off the bat. Where as the ones found in game require you to have a certain crafting rank. Which mean if your using the in game motifs you'll have to spend time, materials and money leveling that craft skill as well as skill points to reach the appropriate crafting rank to qualify to use it. Also they're selling the Dwemer motif in one lump. Those of us who found it in game had to do so in segments. So yes there are several points of pay to win there.

Respecs circumvent one of the few major cash sinks in the game. Buying a respect with real cash save in game cash So there's some pay to win there.

Consumables like potions and food level scales and crown store food last longer than food created. Crown store food lasts 2 hours, crafted food only lasts one hour (unless you have the passives slotted or use purples which I think last for 2). Cash shop repair kits fix ALL your equipment, where as the ones in game are one piece at a time. So here we have a case of avoiding cash sink, arguably better utility, and no need to spend skill points to get longer lasting quality foods or potions.

And your right crafting mats are easy enough to find so there's no real need to sell them in the cash shop. To do so would be a big F you to every poor sod who went through the effort and expense to get them as the game originally intended.

Research times are long because (with the exception of enchanting) crafting is god awful easy. Boring, sure, but very easy. Decon everything you can and your good. Research the traits most valuable to you first then worry about the rest. Simple.

Arguably bank space is/isn't an issue. While that IS largely personal, bank space is one of the few cash sink in the game. So we get the same issue we have with the respec scrolls.

Individually, these things all seem minor and not worth fussing over in and of themselves but taken together they have the potential to create a serious negative impact on the game overall.

The inherent problem with convenience is that it's a very vague term. Anything could be considered a convenience if you rationalize it enough. After all buying gold is convenient but it's still against the terms of service and with good reason. A mods that let you walk through a wall is convenient as all get out but it's still cheating. Having your buddy feed you free AP is convenient but still unsportsmanly (and may also get you banned not sure though).

Nighn_9 · May 2015

We need player housing asap. I know you guys have it set up already with those mansions in Alikr Desert, Grahtwood, and Deshann. that kind of content will last us a very long time.

Nighn_9 · May 2015

Also whats up with the fighting arena in Stormhaven? That makes it seem like we will have duels...

pecheckler · May 2015

This is pay2win just like crown repair kits and skill point redistribution.

Further down the toilet the game spirals.

Jaxsun · May 2015

Sallington wrote: »

If you are surprised by this type of item being added to the crown store, raise your hand.

No hands are raised....

kevlarto_ESO · May 2015

I guess I will buy this on my alt, so I can win something, so if I buy this riding stuff, what do I win, do not die anymore do I kill my enemy in one shot or less, is there a prize to win, you mean I can get somewhere faster than the guy next to me and die sooner, oh wait is that winning ? I dunno, don't see p2w here, I see no huge advantage over my enemy in battle, I already have a 60/60/60 and no prizes have come my way yet..LOL

I doubt I will buy any of these, I will keep going to the trainer, to feed my mount, because I choose to as part of my game play, no real hurry to level my mount.

eliisra · May 2015

Chances of "winning" when ganked in PvP are about 0, when you're mount is under-levelled. You get locked in fall animation instantly and than you die.

But my mount is 60/60. With Rapid Maneuvre up I can ignore most gankers, unless I actually feel like dismounting, playing hide and seek and be stuck in combat for 10 minutes. With max horse stats you can basically tank those sniper arrows no problem, keep riding toward your location. You can also ride straight through the enemy and reach your allies on the other side, without getting dismounted. That's a lot more "winning" than dying and having to do slowpoke horse simulator all over again.

It takes 120 days to get the best mount in the game for PvP (not going to count bags, those are convenience). That's a lot of time you're expected to invest as a new player(or alt).

Riding skills matters a lot in PvP, while the time it takes to get them is absurd. Considering these two things, than yes it's p2w.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · May 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Chances of "winning" when ganked in PvP are about 0, when you're mount is under-levelled. You get locked in fall animation instantly and than you die.

But my mount is 60/60. With Rapid Maneuvre up I can ignore most gankers, unless I actually feel like dismounting, playing hide and seek and be stuck in combat for 10 minutes. With max horse stats you can basically tank those sniper arrows no problem, keep riding toward your location. You can also ride straight through the enemy and reach your allies on the other side, without getting dismounted. That's a lot more "winning" than dying and having to do slowpoke horse simulator all over again.

It takes 120 days to get the best mount in the game for PvP (not going to count bags, those are convenience). That's a lot of time you're expected to invest as a new player(or alt).

Riding skills matters a lot in PvP, while the time it takes to get them is absurd. Considering these two things, than yes it's p2w.

How long can you tank me spamming Critical Rush? The faster you move, the further you get between hits, and the bigger my damage will be

Mercurio · May 2015

they're in a pretty desperate spot trying to turn a profit in F2P while not pissing off too much of the player base. Let's watch them squirm for a bit. It's the most content we're gonna get for a while.

ZOS_GinaBruno · May 2015

As with anything that's datamined, the content is still in development and subject to change. That said, we do indeed intend to release Riding Lessons to the Crown Store in the future. This will allow you to increase your riding stats (speed, stamina, and capacity) at a faster rate through crowns, though you will not be able to attain more than the maximum 60 points per skill. We are still finalizing the rest of the details, and appreciate your continued feedback!

Gidorick · May 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As with anything that's datamined, the content is still in development and subject to change. That said, we do indeed intend to release Riding Lessons to the Crown Store in the future. This will allow you to increase your riding stats (speed, stamina, and capacity) at a faster rate through crowns, though you will not be able to attain more than the maximum 60 points per skill. We are still finalizing the rest of the details, and appreciate your continued feedback!

Do they have to be for a specific skill? I think it would be better if you just bought an Advanced Riding Lesson and upon use you choose what skill to upgrade.

WebBull · May 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As with anything that's datamined, the content is still in development and subject to change. That said, we do indeed intend to release Riding Lessons to the Crown Store in the future. This will allow you to increase your riding stats (speed, stamina, and capacity) at a faster rate through crowns, though you will not be able to attain more than the maximum 60 points per skill. We are still finalizing the rest of the details, and appreciate your continued feedback!

Excellent. It will help those new to the game and alts. Too may people getting their panties in a bunch over nothing.

Davadin · May 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As with anything that's datamined, the content is still in development and subject to change. That said, we do indeed intend to release Riding Lessons to the Crown Store in the future. This will allow you to increase your riding stats (speed, stamina, and capacity) at a faster rate through crowns, though you will not be able to attain more than the maximum 60 points per skill. We are still finalizing the rest of the details, and appreciate your continued feedback!

I may be OK with lesson that allows you to upgrade, 2x, 3x, hell... even 5x a day instead of 1x a day as normal. (I won't buy it, but it's OK)

I'm NOT OK if there's an item in store that IMMEDIATELY MAX CAP a certain trait. Like, "Spend 1000 crowns and you'll get 60 speed instantly!"

That's just... no.

Lykurgis · May 2015

Sallington wrote: »

For all of the people thinking it's no big detail because it's just the dumb horses, it won't be long before you are bypassing trait research cooldowns. Or buying stacks of mats. Or purchasing AP packs.

Could very easily see PVP loot containers for sale for crowns (SWOTOR anyone...) and the drop rate of Morag Tongs/Hawk Eye nerfed to oblivion to go along with that cash grab.
I mean, why not? It's not pay to win if your chance to get anything other than vendor trash is virtually non-existent right?
/end sarcasm
Hey, we can all have a laugh at this silly idea because, come on, this kinda thing never happens in games right?

Acrolas · May 2015

The problem with three different books for Crown Riding is that a new player can sink a lot of money into speed only to find out he or she needs to pop a motion sickness pill every day to use her or her fast mount.

At least with the one-per-20hr upgrade, if it really becomes uncomfortable for you, you could ask customer support to roll your mount speed back a few points and just forfeit the gold as a lesson learned. But with crown sales final, it could be a costly mistake for somebody who does not have motion sickness issues anywhere else except riding a mount over X number of speed points. You purchased all those crowns and now you need a monthly subscription to Dramamine, too.

It really should be a one-point purchase in Riding Lessons that can be applied to any of the three and can also be reset and applied to another skill for free without limits. Flex points are attractive because you probably don't need all 180 points simultaneously. It would also give you a chance to customize each mount so they all feel a little different.

Slurg · May 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As with anything that's datamined, the content is still in development and subject to change. That said, we do indeed intend to release Riding Lessons to the Crown Store in the future. This will allow you to increase your riding stats (speed, stamina, and capacity) at a faster rate through crowns, though you will not be able to attain more than the maximum 60 points per skill. We are still finalizing the rest of the details, and appreciate your continued feedback!

I think this would get a better reception from the community if the increments purchased this way are relatively small and time bound (can only get x levels per day, not 60 with one press of the button).

Also please consider changing the training for in-game gold to one of each stat per 20 hour period instead of one total, up to 3 total if someone hasn't maxed any stats yet. The current 180 days for a new character to max out their mount is a bit extreme.

vovus69 · May 2015

Remember Rift instant 60 level char? We are moving in the right direction

Natjur · May 2015

The Riding skill books (1 update each, so you need to buy 60 to max out), so next is Champion point potions? If they were one CP each, for 200 crowns, how many would you buy?