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2v2 PvP Tournament - Final Resut

  • TheBull
    TheBull
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    Do you people understand that a curse against a target with no nirn can hit for over 10k? Frags for over 10k w/o the bug?

    Do you people understand that 20k+ spell pen is so easily gained it's almost a given? While w/o nirn most people have 12k ish resist?

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 29, 2015 4:33PM
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Sypher wrote: »
    Since we can't regulate Nirnhoned we decided to allow it in the tournament. I'm more than happy to rematch without Nirn gear or whitestrakes but the fact of the matter is Nirnhoned is not an exploit/bug it is an over powered mechanic (one of many used in the tournaments) which will be toned down but still be useful against users stacking spell damage / magicka. Also there were MANY teams in the tournament using the trait (German/Karstyll weren't you guys using it as well? Judging by your other fights it looked like you guys were). I'm not using you guys or anyone using it as an excuse for using nirnhoned but if you're going to fuss about a mechanic that is over powered we would have to ban many OP things from the tournaments.

    Aetcha and I are looking forward to a rematch without Nirn.

    You don't think Nirn is out of control? Nirn is the single most OP thing in the game right now against casters, it's purely defensive but it makes you unkillable if you're half decent at fighting. To give you an example just how powerful it is, I have fought a decent player with nirn and I had no chance of killing him, then we duel naked and fights are over in less than 10 seconds usually. :)

    I would last for an hour or more vs that DK and many times get him low hp only to have him soul assaulted (30k+ tooltip) and not dent him. While at the same time, he deals top damage and can sometimes almost one shot me if I got no shields (his crits are like 70% of my 20K hp).

    No one should be able to deal insane damage and take no damage at all. Nirn is utterly out of control and whenever I'm dueling someone using this trait I tell myself it's just good practice and nothing more. Please don't use it in tournaments, ban it and find a way to get rid of it. If you can't see how broken it is, go play a magica NB and duel a stamina dk in full nirn. Tell me if you can ever kill him (unless he's a total newbie). :)

    edit: Any stamina spec in full nirn actually. They will be immune to your damage, and deal top damage in return to you. Try it, it's total hard mode.

    lol, something hilarious about a sorc saying someone shouldn't be able to take no damage while doing insane damage.

    Yeah bc the two nightblades were absolutely unable to dmg those sorcs in the video because of shields - oh wait...

    The only words the only word that comes to mind reading your comments would get me suspended in these forums sadly.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • babanovac
    babanovac
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    TheBull wrote: »
    Wow so much qq. Do you people understand that a curse against a target with no nirn can hit for over 10k? Frags for over 10k w/o the bug?

    Do you people understand that 20k+ spell pen is so easily gained it's almost a given? While w/o nirn most people have 12k ish resist?

    People need to understand that nirn is not the problem. DPS is out of hand in this game. Hits that take more than half your health should not exist. Doesn't matter if those hits are magic or physical.

    So if nirn is to be nerfed magical damage needs to be nerfed too.

    Quoting Pixy, for the good sugestions.
    Pixysticks wrote: »
    Nerf Nirn.
    Drop Crystal Frag damage 10-15%.
    Make Fear blockable.
    Lower the coefficients on stamina NB morphs by 5%.
    Buff the coefficients on magicka NB morphs by 5%.
    Add a stamina morph of Lava Whip.
    Buff the damage of the magicka morph of Lava Whip by 15%.
    Give Solar Flare a 35% chance to be instant cast when using any other spell that costs magicka.
    Release 2v2 and 3v3 arenas.
    Everyone rejoices.

    [Moderator Note: Edited moderated quote]
    Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 29, 2015 4:38PM
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Derra wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    Sypher wrote: »
    Since we can't regulate Nirnhoned we decided to allow it in the tournament. I'm more than happy to rematch without Nirn gear or whitestrakes but the fact of the matter is Nirnhoned is not an exploit/bug it is an over powered mechanic (one of many used in the tournaments) which will be toned down but still be useful against users stacking spell damage / magicka. Also there were MANY teams in the tournament using the trait (German/Karstyll weren't you guys using it as well? Judging by your other fights it looked like you guys were). I'm not using you guys or anyone using it as an excuse for using nirnhoned but if you're going to fuss about a mechanic that is over powered we would have to ban many OP things from the tournaments.

    Aetcha and I are looking forward to a rematch without Nirn.

    You don't think Nirn is out of control? Nirn is the single most OP thing in the game right now against casters, it's purely defensive but it makes you unkillable if you're half decent at fighting. To give you an example just how powerful it is, I have fought a decent player with nirn and I had no chance of killing him, then we duel naked and fights are over in less than 10 seconds usually. :)

    I would last for an hour or more vs that DK and many times get him low hp only to have him soul assaulted (30k+ tooltip) and not dent him. While at the same time, he deals top damage and can sometimes almost one shot me if I got no shields (his crits are like 70% of my 20K hp).

    No one should be able to deal insane damage and take no damage at all. Nirn is utterly out of control and whenever I'm dueling someone using this trait I tell myself it's just good practice and nothing more. Please don't use it in tournaments, ban it and find a way to get rid of it. If you can't see how broken it is, go play a magica NB and duel a stamina dk in full nirn. Tell me if you can ever kill him (unless he's a total newbie). :)

    edit: Any stamina spec in full nirn actually. They will be immune to your damage, and deal top damage in return to you. Try it, it's total hard mode.

    lol, something hilarious about a sorc saying someone shouldn't be able to take no damage while doing insane damage.

    Yeah bc the two nightblades were absolutely unable to dmg those sorcs in the video because of shields - oh wait...

    The only words the only word that comes to mind reading your comments would get me suspended in these forums sadly.

    Look how long it took 2 stamina nightBLADES with the highest burst in the game to kill a single sorc who's in light armor.
    That is why I find it hilarious.
  • Soulac
    Soulac
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    Everyone wants everything.

    If you run light Armor with 15-18k hp don't expect to survive long against people who build on burst.
    Someone who relys on burst is probably squishy as squishy as you, if you can hit him through his shields or dodges, whatever.
    Sorcerer as example got huge burst as well, but you can dodge, cloak, reflect or Shield all skills quite easily so where is the problem? Seriously you can cast your reflect in the moment the shard hits you, works perfectly.
    NBs burst to high? Use counters, there are plenty of them.

    Burst is a major part of this game, so deal with it.
    R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
    Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
    Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU

    - Meow -
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Xsorus wrote: »
    Sypher wrote: »
    Since we can't regulate Nirnhoned we decided to allow it in the tournament. I'm more than happy to rematch without Nirn gear or whitestrakes but the fact of the matter is Nirnhoned is not an exploit/bug it is an over powered mechanic (one of many used in the tournaments) which will be toned down but still be useful against users stacking spell damage / magicka. Also there were MANY teams in the tournament using the trait (German/Karstyll weren't you guys using it as well? Judging by your other fights it looked like you guys were). I'm not using you guys or anyone using it as an excuse for using nirnhoned but if you're going to fuss about a mechanic that is over powered we would have to ban many OP things from the tournaments.

    Aetcha and I are looking forward to a rematch without Nirn.

    You don't think Nirn is out of control? Nirn is the single most OP thing in the game right now against casters, it's purely defensive but it makes you unkillable if you're half decent at fighting. To give you an example just how powerful it is, I have fought a decent player with nirn and I had no chance of killing him, then we duel naked and fights are over in less than 10 seconds usually. :)

    I would last for an hour or more vs that DK and many times get him low hp only to have him soul assaulted (30k+ tooltip) and not dent him. While at the same time, he deals top damage and can sometimes almost one shot me if I got no shields (his crits are like 70% of my 20K hp).

    No one should be able to deal insane damage and take no damage at all. Nirn is utterly out of control and whenever I'm dueling someone using this trait I tell myself it's just good practice and nothing more. Please don't use it in tournaments, ban it and find a way to get rid of it. If you can't see how broken it is, go play a magica NB and duel a stamina dk in full nirn. Tell me if you can ever kill him (unless he's a total newbie). :)

    edit: Any stamina spec in full nirn actually. They will be immune to your damage, and deal top damage in return to you. Try it, it's total hard mode.

    lol, something hilarious about a sorc saying someone shouldn't be able to take no damage while doing insane damage.

    Yeah bc the two nightblades were absolutely unable to dmg those sorcs in the video because of shields - oh wait...

    The only words the only word that comes to mind reading your comments would get me suspended in these forums sadly.

    Look how long it took 2 stamina nightBLADES with the highest burst in the game to kill a single sorc who's in light armor.
    That is why I find it hilarious.

    And the NBs won despite of shields? Whats the Point? Do you want the fight to be even more lopsided than it was?

    The NBs stayed alive too against the highest magic dmg in the game (well not that they were hit that much bc of dodge/cloak).

    I don´t understand in any way how you can make a point against sorc shields out of this vid.

    Edit: Well i think i get it. You don´t want light armor builds to have active defense - they should explode even faster. 35seconds to score the first kill in the finals while never being pressured.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 29, 2015 4:39PM
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Derra wrote: »
    Edit: Well i think i get it. You don´t want light armor builds to have active defense - they should explode even faster. 35seconds to score the first kill in the finals while never being pressured.

    From a video where 2 stamina NBs completely shut down Sorc damage ( so much so that they never even have to go on defense mode at any point during the fight) while dealing top damage themselves, Xsorus' professional opinion is.... that Sorc shields are OP need nerfs. GG

    [Moderator Note: Edited moderated quote]
    Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 29, 2015 4:40PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • LegendaryMage
    LegendaryMage
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    lol, something hilarious about a sorc saying someone shouldn't be able to take no damage while doing insane damage.

    I take damage all the time, go watch my latest video.

    Also, I've played the single weakest stamina spec in the game, sorcerer with literally only one class skill which was used only for mobility in open world, so don't tell me I'm playing some imba setup that no one can counter. I'm not even fully geared, maxed out stats and/or anything else that other players are pushing, my regens are quite normal, my spell penetration isn't anything special and my damage certainly doesn't feel OP compared to other people's damage.

    I fight BoL overload spamming sorcerers with better stats, better penetration all day and never complain about them. I don't complain about perma dodgers, magicka NBs, stamina NBs, whatever class/setup you may think is OP, I'm not complaining about literally anything other than about a broken trait that makes a player who normally dies vs me in less than 10 seconds, go full unkillable mode.
  • Dositheus
    Dositheus
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    First of all, good work Sypher and Ae. You are both great players and such is easily seen via the videos you put out. Wasn't it Sorcs who stomped the last tourny and everyone spammed hate messages about "Nerf sorcs" bla bla bla because of that? I get rather tired of the "nerf this, nerf that" hijacking of every thread on this forum. Are there things that need balancing? Yep, they've been mentioned and beaten like the proverbial horse. At the end of the day, the "nerf sorcs, nerf nb, nerf imperial, nerf dk, nerf stam, nerf whatever" gets really old though. I die to good NB, I die to good Sorcs, I die to good DKs. I even die to good Templars. Everyone does. We all pretty much agree there are some slight balancing issues to be addressed, Nirnhoned perhaps? But the hyperbole filled whine threads trying to nerf everything from any class that you don't main, are getting old. From everyone.

    My suggestion? Congratulate folks for the work they do, and pvp more in game than on the forums.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]
    Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 29, 2015 4:33PM
  • Germtrocity
    Germtrocity
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    This thread has quickly escalated from a showcasing of the brokenness of nirn to a public display of many people's lack of knowledge of the game.

    I am not saying that my partner and I are the best sorcerers, or the greatest duo, or anything like that. But I find it hilarious when we are being lectured by other players that we have, in many cases, killed multiple times either duo or solo, about our playstyle and how we may have done better in the tournament, or our strategy, etc.

    Regardless of our strategy in the tournament (which I have successfully used to completely shut down many people in 1v1,2,3,4,X scenarios) when it comes down to it, nirnhoned shut down our ability to do any significant damage or build space with mines like we intended. This is just a showcase of how nirnhoned is completely destroying a magicka playstyle, a playstyle that has already been gutted for other classes when 1.6 came out, and that at the very least, nirnhoned needs to be toned down.

    Although this is what I had envisioned when this happened, players who understood the game would see what was actually happening, while players wtih less of a grasp on mechanics would look at the video and just think that my partner and I merely got facerolled (which in essence, we did, but not because the other players completely surpassed us in skill, but for a large part because their trait more or less completely shut down our builds entirely).

    Also, for anybody arguing that nirnhoned is not very powerful, I am happy to test with you daedric mine damage with and without nirnhoned in-game. 3 mines on average will destroy someone, while in the video, 5 mines were popped by the same person within a split second of each other, and the person only dropped to 32% health. Honestly, if that doesn't say enough about how powerful nirnhoned is, than nothing will.

    @Exequies for the mines test in-game.

    @Sypher we would be happy to rematch sometime.
  • NoRefunds
    NoRefunds
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    germantrocity, being able to use mines to completely shut down any melee build is completely broken and you should realize that, saying that its not fair that your mines do not oneshot people trying to hit you in melee its completely ***. nirnohed is simply reducing the damage of those mines by a 30-40%, taking it into the balanced zone
  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    NoRefunds wrote: »
    germantrocity, being able to use mines to completely shut down any melee build is completely broken and you should realize that, saying that its not fair that your mines do not oneshot people trying to hit you in melee its completely ***. nirnohed is simply reducing the damage of those mines by a 30-40%, taking it into the balanced zone

    You have to keep in mind that Mines is a *very* expensive spell - you shouldn't be able to drop mines all the time when they're just half used up without any magicka issues in the first place. I think this is one symptom of the easy resource management in 1.6. So no one can say with any certainty how balance would be if resource management would be top priority in fights again. Once that is done, you can adjust skills.
    Nirnhoned on the other hand is a broken trait and not working as it should.
    Edited by ToRelax on April 29, 2015 12:35PM
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • Germtrocity
    Germtrocity
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    NoRefunds wrote: »
    germantrocity, being able to use mines to completely shut down any melee build is completely broken and you should realize that, saying that its not fair that your mines do not oneshot people trying to hit you in melee its completely ***. nirnohed is simply reducing the damage of those mines by a 30-40%, taking it into the balanced zone

    Remember that mines are not exactly "hidden", you can see the glowing purple blobs on the ground, and to hit more than 1 or 2 at a time is actually pretty impressive, because they take up a larger space than your character does.

    Sypher hit 5 mines within a split second of each other, and mitigated such an insane amount of damage (he didn't even have 20k health in the video), which just shows how weak the mines are.

    To hit even 3 mines, you have to consciously be trying to do so (or somehow be that oblivious?) while in the video they did not even worry about our mines for the most part.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    NoRefunds wrote: »
    germantrocity, being able to use mines to completely shut down any melee build is completely broken and you should realize that, saying that its not fair that your mines do not oneshot people trying to hit you in melee its completely ***. nirnohed is simply reducing the damage of those mines by a 30-40%, taking it into the balanced zone

    Those weren't mines from one person, they were mines from 2 people. The "balanced zone" that you mention is the zone where the magicka build does no damage and the stamina build cuts through shields like butter, as evidenced by the above video.

    The mines have a 4.5k-5k tooltip damage. Reducing the damage by 40%-50%, as people do with nirn, means taking <5k damage from triggering 2 mines which is less than the damage you do with a single Surprise Attack (at much lower cost and with no trigger period)

    I'm glad we have people like you reminding us what balance is.
    EU | PC | AD
  • Ifthir_ESO
    Ifthir_ESO
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    Pixysticks wrote: »
    Nerf Nirn.
    Drop Crystal Frag damage 10-15%.
    Make Fear blockable.
    Lower the coefficients on stamina NB morphs by 5%.
    Buff the coefficients on magicka NB morphs by 5%.
    Add a stamina morph of Lava Whip.
    Buff the damage of the magicka morph of Lava Whip by 15%.
    Give Solar Flare a 35% chance to be instant cast when using any other spell that costs magicka.
    Release 2v2 and 3v3 arenas.
    Everyone rejoices.

    lol no

    with fear blockable sorcs never die

    even with nirnhoned sorcs still strongest overall in pvp
  • Soulac
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    NoRefunds wrote: »
    germantrocity, being able to use mines to completely shut down any melee build is completely broken and you should realize that, saying that its not fair that your mines do not oneshot people trying to hit you in melee its completely ***. nirnohed is simply reducing the damage of those mines by a 30-40%, taking it into the balanced zone

    Remember that mines are not exactly "hidden", you can see the glowing purple blobs on the ground, and to hit more than 1 or 2 at a time is actually pretty impressive, because they take up a larger space than your character does.

    Sypher hit 5 mines within a split second of each other, and mitigated such an insane amount of damage (he didn't even have 20k health in the video), which just shows how weak the mines are.

    To hit even 3 mines, you have to consciously be trying to do so (or somehow be that oblivious?) while in the video they did not even worry about our mines for the most part.

    If you use Ambush you can even block the mines btw.
    First you teleport in, so the chance to proc mines is lower and also you can start block in the second you land.
    Now imagine the guy got 40k spellresi and S&B :)

    Edited by Soulac on April 29, 2015 12:54PM
    R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
    Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
    Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU

    - Meow -
  • Jbugz97
    Jbugz97
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    it look like alot need to be fix before console release . why are they taking so long to fix stuff
    NB v14 / DC / Shades of Jbugz
    DK v12 / DC / Fear of Jbugz

    Now Playing on xbox
    GT : J Bugz 3
    DC for life
    Magika NB
  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
    Pixysticks wrote: »
    Nerf Nirn.
    Drop Crystal Frag damage 10-15%.
    Make Fear blockable.
    Lower the coefficients on stamina NB morphs by 5%.
    Buff the coefficients on magicka NB morphs by 5%.
    Add a stamina morph of Lava Whip.
    Buff the damage of the magicka morph of Lava Whip by 15%.
    Give Solar Flare a 35% chance to be instant cast when using any other spell that costs magicka.
    Release 2v2 and 3v3 arenas.
    Everyone rejoices.

    lol no

    with fear blockable sorcs never die

    even with nirnhoned sorcs still strongest overall in pvp

    You say that in a thread showcasing how useless a magicka build is against any decent player using nirnhoned armor :expressionless: ?
    DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
    The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...

    Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU
  • Jbugz97
    Jbugz97
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    i think when a person is using 2 piece of nirn & sits at around 25k spell resis .that fine sorc still hit hard but not op
    NB v14 / DC / Shades of Jbugz
    DK v12 / DC / Fear of Jbugz

    Now Playing on xbox
    GT : J Bugz 3
    DC for life
    Magika NB
  • Chesimac
    Chesimac
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    Yuke wrote: »
    Has sypher changed his build?

    Because if not: Skirmisher set = no nirnhoned.

    Look at the armor, it's not skirmisher in the video.
    Pixysticks wrote: »
    Nerf Nirn.
    Drop Crystal Frag damage 10-15%.
    Make Fear blockable.
    Lower the coefficients on stamina NB morphs by 5%.
    Buff the coefficients on magicka NB morphs by 5%.
    Add a stamina morph of Lava Whip.
    Buff the damage of the magicka morph of Lava Whip by 15%.
    Give Solar Flare a 35% chance to be instant cast when using any other spell that costs magicka.
    Release 2v2 and 3v3 arenas.
    Everyone rejoices.

    If you make fear blockable you have to make fossilize blockable
  • Ifthir_ESO
    Ifthir_ESO
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    even with 39k sr sorc frags still hit for 7k+

    real fixes should be :

    nerf endless dodge rolling
    nerf endless sustain builds
    remove shield stacking
    nerf vigor to be a self heal
    add a way to debuff or drain magicka
    nerf fear only if mark allows NB to ignore shields
    nerf endless blocking
    nerf bolt escape to not be an instant get out of jail free
    make pvp servers guild or solo choices to balance them more
    nerf streak cc if you nerf fear
    buff templar to be something more than rd spammers
    nerf lag


    just off the top of my head
  • Soulac
    Soulac
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    Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
    even with 39k sr sorc frags still hit for 7k+

    real fixes should be :

    nerf endless dodge rolling
    nerf endless sustain builds
    remove shield stacking
    nerf vigor to be a self heal
    add a way to debuff or drain magicka
    nerf fear only if mark allows NB to ignore shields
    nerf endless blocking
    nerf bolt escape to not be an instant get out of jail free
    make pvp servers guild or solo choices to balance them more
    nerf streak cc if you nerf fear
    buff templar to be something more than rd spammers
    nerf lag


    just off the top of my head

    tbh you can dodge frags so easy since they're so "slow" ..

    R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
    Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
    Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU

    - Meow -
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
    Pixysticks wrote: »
    Nerf Nirn.
    Drop Crystal Frag damage 10-15%.
    Make Fear blockable.
    Lower the coefficients on stamina NB morphs by 5%.
    Buff the coefficients on magicka NB morphs by 5%.
    Add a stamina morph of Lava Whip.
    Buff the damage of the magicka morph of Lava Whip by 15%.
    Give Solar Flare a 35% chance to be instant cast when using any other spell that costs magicka.
    Release 2v2 and 3v3 arenas.
    Everyone rejoices.

    lol no

    with fear blockable sorcs never die

    even with nirnhoned sorcs still strongest overall in pvp

    You say that in a thread showcasing how useless a magicka build is against any decent player using nirnhoned armor :expressionless: ?

    His notion is ridiculous as magicka sorcs don't even block in the first place.

    I don't however agree with making fear blockable. If top burst damage is reduced all around (for magicka Sorcs and stamina NBs) AND fear gets this huge nerf, then what you'd see everywhere is heavy armor tanks that never drop block and therefore never take any damage. They are already a huge pain to deal with, as break free cost is so low for them, if they don't even have to do that it's....GG see you later.

    Also pixy's suggestions while viable from PvP standpoint are a complete no-no in terms of PvE balance. DK might not have serious burst, but is already the best sustain DPS machine in the game (as well as the best tank and fantastic healer). Nerfing burst damage for NBs and Sorcs also means nerfing their sustained DPS even further. Competitive PvE will end up being all about raids of 12 DKs.
    EU | PC | AD
  • Oughash
    Oughash
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    Pixysticks wrote: »
    Nerf Nirn.
    Drop Crystal Frag damage 10-15%.
    Make Fear blockable.
    Lower the coefficients on stamina NB morphs by 5%.
    Buff the coefficients on magicka NB morphs by 5%.
    Add a stamina morph of Lava Whip.
    Buff the damage of the magicka morph of Lava Whip by 15%.
    Give Solar Flare a 35% chance to be instant cast when using any other spell that costs magicka.
    Release 2v2 and 3v3 arenas.
    Everyone rejoices.

    Holy smokes!!

    Agreed with every line here.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Ifthir_ESO wrote: »
    nerf streak cc if you nerf fear

    lol. Streak is a blockable, 1.5" CC that grants 6" immunity. Hardly anyone is fecking using it in the first place! What is there to nerf about it?
    EU | PC | AD
  • Poxheart
    Poxheart
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    NoRefunds wrote: »
    germantrocity, being able to use mines to completely shut down any melee build is completely broken and you should realize that, saying that its not fair that your mines do not oneshot people trying to hit you in melee its completely ***. nirnohed is simply reducing the damage of those mines by a 30-40%, taking it into the balanced zone

    I'm no sorc lover, but there's nothing wrong with mines completely shutting down melee builds. If you go all in on one mode of attack, then you shouldn't be surprised when you face counters (same as for all the ranged attack only people that complained about wings).

    Also, anybody taking damage from five mines at the same time should be killed. Doing so is equivalent to being hit by 5 attacks doing a total 20K+ damage in the same time stamp. There is nothing balanced about the amount of damage reduction from stacking nirnhoned.
    Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.

    Pox Dragon Knight
    Poxheart Nightblade
    The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
    Knights of the WhiteWolf
  • LegendaryMage
    LegendaryMage
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    Stamina players shouldn't complain about mines when they have the option to go ranged with a simple weapon swap. I played a stamina sorc on s/b + 2h setup for a couple of months and I had no problems killing a ton of sorcs who camped in their daedric mines. Some were much harder than others, some were almost impossible to down like that, like @ToRelax for example but in no way did I think that mines are so OP, in fact the single most OP thing back then was a stamina NB enemy because it was simply impossible to kill them unless you're very lucky.

    As for mines, I would use them on my stamina build sometimes and just cast them over the enemy's ones. :)
    Edited by LegendaryMage on April 29, 2015 1:49PM
  • DisgracefulMind
    DisgracefulMind
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    I feel that I need to clarify a few things here, as some posters have taken things largely out of context.

    My partner and I have not said one thing about nerfing another class in this thread, and you will most likely never see us crying for class nerfs in any thread. We did not point out or pick at nightblade burst, and we are certainly not complaining about nightblades.

    In fact, the only thing we have pointed out is that this video showcases the use of the Nirnhoned armor trait in all its fury. Watch as Sypher pops 5 or so Daedric mines in almost one go, and only goes to 32% health. If you are an experienced player, you would know that these mines hurt, even for players in heavy armor. This is a prime example of how overly powerful and broken (yes I say broken because anything in this game that is this significantly overpowered is broken in my opinion and needs a fix and adjustment) nirnhoned is. The trait is out of control. Many, many players are using it or are trying to get their hands on any piece they can. Does nobody realize that this hurts an entire playstyle? Every player who plays ESO should be able to at least choose between playing a stamina build or playing a magicka build. I understand that many of you in this thread play stamina, and can't possibly see the flawed logic behind stacking nirnhoned because you don't want to take damage against a magicka user. I can understand wanting to be nearly immortal, or the desire and rush you could possibly get from it, but from a magicka build standpoint, nirnhoned ruins the game for me. I have always been a player who wants nothing more but balance in ESO. Balance and having fun go hand in hand for all players. So while you stamina builds using nirnhoned may be having an absolute blast making it so a magicka build cannot damage you while you get to just chop them up and make them look like fools and bad players while making yourselves look like gods, imagine how it feels to be on the receiving end of that. If we all want to be able to continue to PvP in ESO, and ever hope for ESO to improve immensely, we all need to realize that balance is the key part to this. We also need to realize that when something is as horribly imbalanced as Nirnhoned is, it makes it so the game is not fun for other players. So while you stack the trait and have your laughs, there are players who could potentially quit and leave the game over it. So instead of trying to seek out the most OP things you can, how about you play the game without things such as Nirnhoned stacking. We can sit here and argue about classes and skills all day, but I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in one thing: Nirnhoned getting fixed. And not just so that I, as a magicka Sorcerer, can deal damage, but so that magicka Templars, Dragonknights, and Nightblades have a chance to also play their class and build as they choose. I watched some absolutely excellent players in this tournament be made into complete fools by Nirnhoned, and it's sickening. So, again, it's not a class that's a problem, it's the Nirnhoned trait which is tipping the balance insanely. You all can argue and say that Nirnhoned doesn't make a difference, but it does. This video proves it. And I will gladly record damage tests against Nirnhoned if I have to to further this point.

    Players have questioned mine and my partner's strategy, yet know nothing of our previous fights, or our history of fights as a duo. We're being judged on our skill based on an absolutely awful situation. Melee stamina builds slice through shields in nearly one swipe (as you can see from my second death in the video), which is completely fine, and there is no complaint from me about that. What the problem is in the video is that we were unable to use our mines as a buffer from the melee build. While ambush can skip over mines, yes, we placed our mines around each other as well to still give that buffer and CC that mines provide even through an ambush. HOWEVER, mines do absolutely nothing if their damage is negated. If the mines are not damaging the melee enemy, then the enemy will not fear them and will do as Sypher does in this video and pop as many as he can and not have a second thought about it. So my partner and I literally have no buffer at this point. And perhaps we should have streaked around or unstacked, whatever to have made anything work, but clearly we weren't going to get enough damage on them in enough time for it to even matter anyways. There really should be no build that can negate that much damage from a magicka user and also burst a magicka user without any consequences.

    @Germtrocity and I have been playing together for a long time now. I didn't always play Sorcerer, and I'm certainly not the best Sorcerer or even close, but I have faith in his skill, and him in mine, and we have accomplished a lot together. So to see any of you judge our skill based off of a completely broken trait that disabled the build he has put so much time and energy into is very hard to take in. We have worked hard to become the duo we are, and we are certainly formidable. This video did not showcase the other duos that suffered just as bad, if not worse, from Nirnhoned, one of which we consider to legitimately be an even match to us, get absolutely devoured by Nirnhoned. I wish our match in the second round had been recorded, where we beat a Sorcerer using full Nirnhoned and a Dragonknight using perhaps a few pieces (the DK's use is unconfirmed, the Sorcerer's use is confirmed). While those fights were difficult, we prevailed. And then we have these final matches where everyone who is a valid and skilled player can obviously see how terrifying it can be when Nirnhoned is teamed up with the highest burst damage build and class in the game. We are not crying for nerfs to a class, we want the trait fixed.

    I, for one, refuse to fight anyone with Nirnhoned again, or to respect someone who encourages its use. Until it is balanced and fixed (and I completely agree that it will be a good trait once it is fixed), I won't be dueling/playing with/competing with anyone using the traits. I will stick to my divines/infused armor and go on my merry way and continue to have fun and enjoy this game. I'm not going to post anymore into this thread, as anything I say can be clearly confirmed in this video. If players choose to use Nirnhoned armor to gain an upperhand while it is broken, so be it, but I will do things better with my time than be made to look like a fool by them.
    Edited by DisgracefulMind on April 29, 2015 2:05PM
    Unfortunate magicka warden main.
    PC/NA Server
    Fairweather Friends
    Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.
  • Aimelin
    Aimelin
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    Pixysticks wrote: »
    Nerf Nirn.
    Drop Crystal Frag damage 10-15%.
    Make Fear blockable.
    Lower the coefficients on stamina NB morphs by 5%.
    Buff the coefficients on magicka NB morphs by 5%.
    Add a stamina morph of Lava Whip.
    Buff the damage of the magicka morph of Lava Whip by 15%.
    Give Solar Flare a 35% chance to be instant cast when using any other spell that costs magicka.
    Release 2v2 and 3v3 arenas.
    Everyone rejoices.

    You, and like 90% of the people here, probably don't even know or realize why everyone is hitting for insane amounts of damage, magicka and stamina builds alike. Why i won't say, or maybe i should, tho bug report has been sent in, and hopefully looked at soon.

    Having said that, nirnhoned does need a nerf if, with the current bug in place, it mitigates that much dmg. Sure Reinforced does seem to somewhat want to do the same, and as a light armor user it can boost your physical resistance up alot (think with all my buffs i have around 21-24k armor on my healer?), but still get hit as if i was wearing paper.

    It needs to be looked at.

    On the other subjects brought up in this thread i won't even touch, or i'll have all the fanboys after me again.
    Edited by Aimelin on April 29, 2015 2:01PM
  • cozmon3c_ESO
    cozmon3c_ESO
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    I corresponed with Jessica, and she reiterrated that there will be no balancing changes really til after console launch, including this nirn imbalance. So 2 more months of these bugs and imbalances with no changes until console, and probably a couple weeks to a month after console release before we see any change. Do you feel like your being listened too as a PC player yet?
    Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
    ~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
    Youtube Channel - Leper
    https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos
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